Brussels, my love? Why Europe should care about the Spanish elections?
In this edition of Brussels, my love?, we discuss the recent Spanish elections that ended with what appears to be a political stalemate with the lack of an absolute majority leaving the nation and the continent asking, what happens next?
Transcript
00:00 [Music]
00:12 Hello there and welcome to "Brussels, je t'aime", Euronews' weekly talk show about European politics.
00:19 On Brussels, my love, we zoom in on some stories making news across the continent
00:24 and hear what's at stake for you and for Europe.
00:27 I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us.
00:29 Coming up this week, all eyes on Spain.
00:33 Last weekend's election outcome raises more questions than answers
00:37 and shows yet another Spanish general election with a fragmented outcome.
00:41 As Spaniards wait with bated breath to see who can chat up who to form a government,
00:46 Brussels watches on.
00:48 The big talking point here, that the far-right, Eurosceptic Vox party did not do as well as the polls have predicted.
00:54 We break it down.
00:55 And from Sicily to Corfu, the south of Europe is on fire.
00:59 With temperatures higher than ever, storms never seen before and wildfires raging,
01:04 flights and package holidays have been cancelled
01:07 and some holidaymakers are ending up in hospital with heatstroke.
01:10 We ask if it's getting too hot to holiday
01:13 and what impact this is having on the tourism sector that relies so heavily on us to spend our money.
01:20 Our guests this week, Beatrix Rios, journalist for the Washington Post, welcome.
01:25 Thank you.
01:26 Garvin Walsh, political strategist with the European Policy Centre.
01:30 Thank you.
01:31 Good to see you.
01:32 And Sandra Pasaric from the Wilfrid Martin Centre.
01:35 Thank you for having me.
01:36 Good to see you all.
01:37 Before we hear your take on the Spanish elections, let's just remind our viewers how they went, shall we?
01:42 Ellie Liberté has more.
01:46 The recent snap Spanish election on the 23rd led to an uncertain outcome.
01:51 Although the People's Party Alberto Núñez-Fiejo won,
01:54 the right-wing bloc does not have enough seats for an absolute majority.
01:57 Vox lost influence in the country, giving a break to Europe's far-right trend.
02:02 On the other hand, incumbent Pedro Sánchez from the Socialists could build this majority
02:07 but it hinges on the requirements of the independentist parties.
02:11 This could lead to a blockage when trying to form a new government.
02:15 It could even lead to another election.
02:17 All of this while Spain is holding the presidency of the Council of the European Union.
02:23 So, what could this mean for Spain and for Europe?
02:27 Ellie Liberté reporting for us there.
02:31 So, the People's Party, Pepe, won with 136, followed by the Socialists, known as PSOE.
02:38 They picked up 122 seats.
02:40 And then the far-right, Vox, got 33 seats.
02:43 And the far-left, Sumar, picked up 31.
02:45 But of course, the magic number is 176.
02:48 That's what they need to reach an absolute majority.
02:50 So, Beatriz, I'd like to hear from you first.
02:52 You were on the ground last weekend reporting on those elections and a pretty messy outcome.
02:58 What more can you tell us?
02:59 Yeah, I think it's what you said before.
03:01 So, I think we have a very fragmented parliament,
03:04 which is the result of a very polarised society as a result of the debate
03:08 that we have been seeing over the past few months.
03:10 And indeed, there is no clear majority on either side.
03:14 Even though the Popular Party won the election,
03:17 they're not going to be able to form a government.
03:19 That's the most likely scenario.
03:21 And on the left, we see a potential formation of a government,
03:24 but very weak because they would be relying on pro-independence political parties,
03:29 both in the Basque Country and Catalonia,
03:31 and that would create a very unstable scenario moving forward.
03:35 So, what we see is indeed a very fragmented parliament,
03:37 very unlikely to form a government in the next few months
03:40 and probably come in next election in the next few months.
03:43 And the Popular Party are in shock.
03:45 They're devastated because they thought they had a clear victory.
03:48 That's what the polls have predicted.
03:49 Sandra, what is the view been here from Brussels?
03:51 Well, first of all, putting elections so soon after the regional election that took place in May,
03:57 and it's May, putting the general elections for the 3rd of July came as a shock, I think, to everybody.
04:03 So, everybody had to prepare a really quick campaign for those snap elections, so to say,
04:08 during also the Spanish presidency of the Council of the European Union,
04:12 which also comes at a very crucial point with all the geopolitical challenges Europe and hence Spain is facing.
04:20 El Partido Popular, one thing is for sure that there is a winner,
04:24 even though, as Beatriz already mentioned, the key of the government is not at the winner's hand,
04:30 which is Albert Núñez-Feijo.
04:32 But the loser is also very clear, also from El Partido Popular, and this is Spain and the Spanish people,
04:37 because the government, at the moment, there might be a forum, we'll see this from the 17th of August,
04:44 this government is going to be very unstable.
04:46 And at the moment, the three words that can describe the situation in Spain is uncertainty,
04:51 it's instability and also blackmail.
04:54 This is what you can see from minority parties towards the PSOE at the moment.
04:59 Well, let's hear from you, I mean, do you think the problem perhaps could have been that the Popular Party,
05:05 or the People's Party, excuse me, that they were making alliances with Vox in the regional elections?
05:10 I mean, it's very difficult to run a negative campaign from opposition.
05:14 I think this shows that the PP failed because they had a very negative campaign,
05:19 they had no vision for Spain's future, and as a result, they couldn't mobilize people.
05:24 The PSOE were able to mobilize people based on fear of Vox.
05:27 Vox didn't help things by going even further to the right in the last few months,
05:31 by talking about banning abortion, by talking about banning pro-independence parties,
05:35 and the PP really needs to ask itself, can it tolerate being in coalition with people
05:40 who would destroy the fundamental constitutional peace of Spain,
05:44 which is exactly what the people like Bildu, that the PSOE is in coalition with, also want to do.
05:49 So we have this bizarre situation where Spaniards really want, you know, practical centrist government.
05:55 The two main parties don't actually disagree very much, but they're being pulled
06:00 by the gravity of their extremist coalition partners towards something that nobody actually wants.
06:05 And as you say, there could be another election in December, in January.
06:09 But it's interesting, there have been reactions here.
06:11 It's interesting actually what you said about them not having a vision for the future,
06:14 because of course here in Brussels many people have been looking on.
06:16 We saw members of the European Parliament taking to Twitter to express how they feel,
06:21 like Manfred Weber, he's of course the head of the European People's Party.
06:25 He posted a photograph there with Alberto Núñez-Feijóó, congratulating him of course on his victory,
06:32 saying, "You have our full support." But the question is, support for what, Beatriz?
06:38 Well, that's the question right now. Indeed, Feijóó is a winner of the election,
06:42 but the truth is that Spain has a parliamentary system, so it's not necessarily a presidential system
06:47 where the winner who wins is necessarily going to be the one from in government,
06:50 but the one who actually can build the majority.
06:53 And the truth is that it's very unlikely that the Popular Party can do that,
06:56 because the only political party they can rely on really is Vox, and with them they don't have a majority.
07:01 And then there are a number of small political parties with a couple of seats
07:04 that so far have been a little bit unclear about what their positions are going to be,
07:08 but even though they would support the Popular Party, they wouldn't be able to form a majority with them.
07:12 So that's one thing. I believe that actually the reason why Sánchez called the election
07:17 so soon after the regional election is because he was stopping the conversation being about
07:21 the Popular Party winning that election and more about the coalitions that they were forming with the far right.
07:26 And I think he was really smart in doing that, because the results proved that a lot of people
07:29 decided to vote for the Socialists, and they even got more seats.
07:33 So I think that's an interesting dynamic that we see there.
07:36 So now the question is whether the Popular Party is going to be able to find a majority
07:40 with other political parties, which I think it's unlikely, whether they are going to go for what.
07:45 It seems to be now the conversation about a potential Grand Coalition, which I think is very unlikely,
07:50 because indeed the positions of both political parties are very far away from each other,
07:54 or whether we are going to see really the Socialists trying to form a government.
07:57 But as I said, it would be very unlikely to last, because it would be very weak.
08:01 Well, it'll be a very busy summer, I believe, for all those trying to cobble up that coalition.
08:08 But I just want to come back to you, because your think tank, of course,
08:11 it's affiliated with the European People's Party. Manfred Weber is, of course, the head of it.
08:16 He looks very smiley in that photograph that we just showed there, standing beside Fay Chou.
08:21 But in reality, is his gamble perhaps losing?
08:25 He's losing his gamble to try and get closer to the far right.
08:27 How does this make him look on the world stage?
08:29 Because he also thought the Popular Party would do very well in those elections, even better.
08:33 Well, if you look at the general result, it's also not only about that now PSOE might or might not
08:40 form the new government, but it's also about that Partido Popular gained far more seats
08:46 when comparing to the 2019 elections. At the same time, it also won majority in the Senate,
08:51 meaning that the blackmail that at the moment are doing the independent and nationalist parties
08:56 from the Basque country and also from the Catalan, you have two parties.
09:00 One on the one side is Esquerra, and on the other side it's Junts per Catalunya,
09:04 which is actually the Carles Puigdemont party.
09:07 And they have claims, they are blackmailing at the moment Sánchez.
09:11 And this is something that it also has to go to a constitution.
09:14 And it's just worth, Sandra, pointing out to our viewers as well, that Pepe picked up a lot of the votes from Ciudadanos.
09:19 I think that's a very interesting point, because when we talk about the result of the election,
09:23 we need to take into consideration that Ciudadanos, which is a liberal party, didn't run in these elections.
09:28 So a lot of the voters, they either went for the Popular Party and the Socialists.
09:32 And I think the fact that in the end the polls didn't really reflect the result of the election goes a lot with that,
09:37 because a lot of those voters were hesitating.
09:39 And I think there the coalition with the far right really played a role,
09:43 because a lot of those people might be liberal when it comes to the economic policies,
09:47 but they are social when it comes to fundamental rights, and they didn't go to vote for the Popular Party.
09:52 This is the big gap that exists in Spanish politics now.
09:54 There's no liberal party.
09:56 Ciudadanos made huge mistakes by trying to take over the right, and it was a gamble, and it failed.
10:01 As a result, they alienated the other half of their support.
10:04 So now that's why in the regional elections they ended up with very, very small totals of the vote,
10:09 one or two percent in some cases.
10:11 And it's also, Gavin, sorry, I think this goes back to what you said, it's demonising votes,
10:15 while at the same time we have independent parties, nationalist parties from the north and from Catalonia
10:20 who also lost their votes, compared to 2019.
10:24 For example, Squerra, they lost around seven votes, and also Junts, they lost one seat,
10:30 meaning that in the end those are actually the parties who are now claiming something
10:37 from what might be a future government that will most probably not happen,
10:43 which is amnesty also for some of the prisoners, which is also indulgence for a referendum.
10:52 You mentioned, well, just on that note of Carlos Puigdemont,
10:55 we asked our correspondent in Barcelona, Cristina Gené,
10:58 to tell us what was being spoken about in the newspapers this week. Take a look.
11:02 Neither of the main parties in Spain have achieved the majority to form government.
11:07 Now all eyes are on Carlos Puigdemont's party, the Independence Party,
11:13 that has become the key maker to form government.
11:17 So many newspapers underline the fact that Carlos Puigdemont, sitting in Brussels
11:23 pending a detention order from the Spanish justice, is going to be key to form the government.
11:28 So I think you might be seeing Carlos Puigdemont in Brussels,
11:32 putting pressure for the negotiations with Pedro Sánchez.
11:36 Cristina Gené reporting for us there from Barcelona.
11:39 So how will this play out? I mean, Pedro Sánchez has nothing in common with Carlos Puigdemont.
11:44 Is this just here from government?
11:45 I mean, it's also nothing really that Sánchez can actually give him,
11:48 because a referendum is probably not legal.
11:51 Perhaps one could be agreed with the central government, but then it wouldn't have any effect,
11:56 because to have any constitutional effect, you need a majority in both houses,
11:59 you need two-thirds majority in the Congress and in the Senate.
12:02 That's not going to happen because the PPEW won't give it to them.
12:05 Beatrix, your take?
12:06 Yes, I think what is interesting, when we have this conversation,
12:08 we often only talk about what it comes to the pro-independence political party as such.
12:13 We don't talk about their politics.
12:14 And the reality is that when it comes to some of them, they are left-leaning,
12:19 so that means that they don't only have in common with this.
12:23 I mean, they're not only asking for things on the national government in terms of their independence,
12:30 but they're also leaning towards them because they defend the same policies that they do.
12:34 So I think that's important to keep in mind.
12:36 And when it comes to what they ask, I agree, it's very unlikely that they're going to get a referendum
12:40 because it's just unconstitutional.
12:42 So they might just go for getting some advantages in terms of competences and so on.
12:47 And the reality is that, as you said, indeed, they have lost both,
12:49 but also because the politics of the national government have been less confrontational
12:53 than the previous government, and that actually went against them
12:57 because they couldn't use that tension towards the national government.
13:01 Perhaps they're just trying to win time.
13:03 But, yeah, this is correct that Jones and Esquerra, they are leaning towards the left.
13:07 But if you look into their programmes, they're obviously having one thing in mind,
13:10 and this is Catalonia, this is not Spain, and these are the Spanish general elections.
13:13 They also want, for example, decentralisation of what is interesting for Europe,
13:17 of the next generation EU funds and so on.
13:19 They also want Redalias.
13:20 And there are also several things that during the campaign,
13:23 where Sanchez was selling lies during the campaign,
13:28 and now there is also this price that he needs to pay.
13:33 And also let's just remind that Carlos Poggiamo is actually the guy who organised,
13:37 who is behind the referendum, illegal referendum in 2017,
13:42 and who flawed the country in a trunk.
13:45 And now he wants to-- he also has this personal thing that he's most probably scared of incarceration.
13:51 And this is something that he's, again, following his personal agenda.
13:55 And can Jones, of course, afford another election?
13:57 That is the question, because they came in fourth there in Catalonia.
14:00 But I want to just zoom out of Spanish politics and just take a look at Spain from where we're sitting here.
14:05 We're in Brussels, the capital, de facto capital of the European Union.
14:08 Spain is presiding over this union at the moment.
14:12 What impact will this political vacuum have on the project, on the plans for the EU and the policies?
14:17 It would have a significant impact.
14:19 Before the election, when I was talking to diplomats and EU officials,
14:22 there was a lot of concern about a political shift,
14:25 because they were worried about Vox getting into government,
14:28 because that would have a significant impact, especially on climate change policies,
14:31 but also on fundamental rights that have been pushed for the past few years,
14:34 because Spain has been leading in progressive politics.
14:37 But there was also a lot of concern about what we see now,
14:40 a blockage of the parliament and a weak government that is not able to put the political impetus
14:46 that we need in the presidency to move forward a number of policies,
14:49 considering that this is going to be the last effective presidency before the election.
14:53 I think the worries about Vox getting into government at a European level were overblown,
14:58 because they were at best going to be a junior coalition partner for them.
15:01 They weren't going to be able to exercise influence over everything.
15:05 They had to govern with a Partido Popular that needs to make sure it maintains its support in other areas.
15:11 So I think this was a case of people overdoing the influence of the far right in Europe.
15:15 And who was overblowing?
15:17 A lot of non-Spaniards were overblowing the influence of Vox in Spain,
15:22 in the way they were thinking, "Oh, could this be like Italy?"
15:25 It's not like Italy, where Giorgio Meloni is the dominant party on the right.
15:29 It would be like Italy in the early 1990s, where, yes, they'd have some influence,
15:32 but they wouldn't have been able to change the direction of the government.
15:36 And turnout, of course, was notable as well in those elections last weekend.
15:39 70%, I believe. 7 in 10.
15:42 And also what is very important to say here is that with this blockage that Beatriz also mentioned,
15:50 it will be impossible to move forward on any level.
15:54 And also the economic deadlock, also inflation that is there is not a bright future.
16:02 Indeed, Spain is the fourth largest economy. It has massive debt.
16:05 It has lots to do with the business community.
16:07 I saw this week we're extremely concerned about the credibility of the country.
16:11 This is also a problem.
16:13 What's interesting is that on the one hand, we had new data from the IMF,
16:17 and Spain still is one of the leading countries in terms of growth.
16:20 And we also had concerns expressed by the IMF at the same time,
16:24 saying a political deadlock is definitely not good for economy.
16:28 So I think that that is a factor that is going to play out in the next few months.
16:32 And what everybody was hoping for was indeed that there was a strong government in September
16:36 that could lead the way, take over the country,
16:38 and make sure that moving forward there is a stable government.
16:41 And that's not going to be the case.
16:43 And what was the mood on the ground?
16:44 Like, what were people saying to you when you were talking to them?
16:46 Well, the interesting thing, and this is something that we haven't talked about,
16:48 but I think it's interesting, is that when it comes to the policies of this government,
16:52 a lot of people really are pro those policies.
16:56 They really like them.
16:57 But when it comes to the personas, when it comes to Sanchez,
17:00 there is a lot of animosity towards him.
17:02 And that has been what the far right and the right has been using,
17:05 creating this image of him being an evil character that only cares about grabbing power.
17:10 So what a lot of people were saying,
17:12 it was not necessarily that they were against this government,
17:14 but very much that they didn't like him.
17:16 But actually here in Brussels, Pedro Sanchez had a lot of credibility.
17:21 He was charismatic.
17:22 He was liked.
17:23 He spoke fluent English.
17:25 I mean, he was perceived well here on the European stage.
17:28 Well, but in the end, it's a Spanish vote.
17:31 And as we are seeing now in Spain, the uncertainty and instability that is growing,
17:37 we'll only see.
17:38 But also it's also important to say that there are still some incoming votes
17:41 that are to be counted of the Spanish nationals living abroad permanently
17:45 and temporarily.
17:46 They are going to be counted in the next few days.
17:48 There's still Pepe.
17:49 I'm an optimist.
17:50 So Pepe still might win additional one seat, either in Madrid, Cantabria,
17:55 or Catalan city of Girona, which is also the birth city of Puigdemont.
17:59 So we'll see maybe the key of the new government,
18:02 which the socialists might not be in the here in Waterloo at Puigdemont's hands.
18:07 And what about Fejo?
18:08 I mean, he's not so well known, is he, on the European stage.
18:11 Is he?
18:12 Is he liked?
18:13 I mean, he's not really well known.
18:14 He governed well in Galicia.
18:15 He governed as a moderate.
18:17 He's having difficulty dealing with currents in the Partido Popular
18:20 who want him to be much more hard line.
18:23 And I don't think his heart's really in that,
18:25 which is one of the reasons why it didn't come off very well when he tried.
18:28 He should have been able to impose a moderate campaign on his campaign team
18:33 and on his party.
18:34 If he'd done that, I think we might well be looking at something close
18:36 to a Pepe absolute majority.
18:38 He should have told people to postpone their deals with Vox
18:42 for four weeks.
18:45 I mean, Sanchez is very Machiavellian, and Fejo just isn't Machiavellian enough.
18:50 Isn't Machiavellian enough, Beatriz?
18:52 I think it's interesting what you mention,
18:53 because indeed one of the confrontations between Fejo and Vox
18:57 was that he's a regionalist.
18:58 He was the president of Galicia, which is also a very nationalistic region.
19:03 So it was interesting how he was very uncomfortable with that position
19:06 where he had to align with a political party that goes against everything
19:09 he believes in.
19:10 So indeed, I think that was very problematic.
19:11 And this is why he's also being confronted with division
19:14 within his own political party.
19:16 It's already asking for his head behind the scenes.
19:18 So that's interesting.
19:19 Going back to the question of Sanchez being perceived as an influential leader
19:23 in Europe, I think that's important as well, because I think a lot of the Spaniards
19:26 were hoping for this presidency to be a moment where Spain would regain--
19:30 A moment for Spain to shine, because of course that's what EU presidencies
19:33 are also about, and there'll be a trip to Granada.
19:35 There'll be a summit taking place a little bit later this year.
19:38 But for now, that is, I'm afraid, all we have time for.
19:40 Thank you so much for your insights.
19:42 And you don't go anywhere.
19:43 Stay with us, because after the break, we'll be hearing how this month's
19:46 erratic weather forecast is impacting Europe's treasured tourism sector.
19:50 Stay with us here on Euronews.
19:52 [MUSIC PLAYING]
19:55 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show
20:03 about European news.
20:05 I'm Maeve McMahon.
20:06 Now, it's peak holiday season here in Europe,
20:09 and Greenpeace has issued their very own weather forecast,
20:12 saying that some world records should not be broken.
20:16 With dangerous storms to wildfires, this summer's trip can easily turn
20:20 into a holiday from hell, and also a living nightmare for locals.
20:24 Multiple flights have already been cancelled, and red weather alerts
20:27 have been issued in 23 Italian cities, with newspaper headlines warning
20:31 that the south is burning.
20:33 Now, we're watching this, of course, from Brussels.
20:35 How do you feel the EU response has been so far?
20:37 Has it been adequate?
20:39 Well, I think it's a very complex issue, because this is not the result
20:43 of short-term policies.
20:45 This is long-term policies.
20:46 We're talking about climate change and the significant impact that it's
20:49 having in terms of heat, but also in terms of wildfires
20:52 and how difficult it is to control them.
20:55 So I think it's hard to put the finger only on the EU,
20:58 even though I think definitely we need more ambitious climate policies
21:03 so that we can fight against the reasons why we're confronted
21:06 with this.
21:07 Now, in terms of what the EU can do right now--
21:09 Well, the EU, just on the EU, I mean, they do have their hub.
21:11 They have their civil--their emergency response coordination center.
21:13 As I was going to say, what the EU can do is actually pulling resources
21:16 from different countries to help to fight those wildfires,
21:20 but there is little that they can do in terms of like--
21:22 Well, they're definitely monitoring the situation, so we went in to have
21:25 a look and have a chat with them.
21:26 We spoke to the emergency response coordination center.
21:28 Take a look.
21:30 In case, like in Greece, of big forest fires, we have planes that are
21:35 spread all over Europe and are ready to react any time.
21:39 Compared to the past, this year continues the trend from last year
21:43 of higher temperatures, lower humidity, and strong winds,
21:47 which leads, of course, to higher fire danger index,
21:51 which we can expect actually more forest fires during the summer.
21:56 That was Peter Bonev there, and we also heard this week
21:58 from the Greek prime minister saying that the Mediterranean
22:01 was a climate change hotspot, a bit like what you said, Beatrix,
22:03 and that there was actually no magical defense mechanism.
22:06 I mean, is Europe ready for what's to come?
22:08 So last year, the commissioner for emergencies, he proposed--
22:12 and this is something that hasn't been put on the table formally--
22:14 but he proposed to have a new force that could respond to these kind of cases.
22:18 And I think this is interesting because it's becoming more of an issue,
22:21 and they need to have better coordination in that sense.
22:23 Yeah, I mean, five years ago, this was not even on the cards here.
22:25 They didn't need to deal with this.
22:26 It's important to have an emergency response, but it's also important
22:29 to have longer-term fire management policies.
22:31 You have to have a lot of interventions to make sure that underbrush doesn't grow.
22:36 You have to create fire breaks.
22:38 You have to train people to act locally.
22:40 There are a lot of prevention measures that can be taken.
22:42 The question is whether those prevention measures are being taken,
22:45 whether there's enough effort being put into skilling people
22:49 to build that kind of long-term fire defense
22:51 because these things are just going to get worse.
22:53 And in your home country, in Croatia, I believe the situation is pretty worrying as well.
22:56 Right. It's not only that we are having heat waves,
22:58 but as you can also expect because of the climate change,
23:01 this is also an issue that must be debated because a lot of people now are seeing
23:06 there are also floods, there are storms coming in with winds blowing 100 kilometers per hour,
23:12 and obviously there will always be some people saying,
23:15 "Well, this is obviously--we are not having heat. We are having something else."
23:18 But this is also, again, a proof of climate change.
23:20 And we just also had a construction worker who was killed due to one of those storms.
23:25 And also, as we can see, tourism is suffering a lot.
23:29 There are also several camps that, due to those storms, saw themselves reflected.
23:36 Several emergencies came up.
23:39 So this is a very concerning situation also for tourism.
23:41 Croatia is one of the countries that has highest reliance of its GDP on tourism, like 25% almost.
23:47 Croatia, Greece, Spain, Italy. Yeah, I mean, it's a huge industry.
23:50 Montenegro, 30%.
23:51 Yeah, for Europe.
23:52 And that's actually a point that we raised with our Rome correspondent,
23:55 Georgia Orlandi, who sent us this update from the capital of Italy.
23:59 Well, although the Italian government has pledged to make tourism more sustainable,
24:04 experts say that there has already been a shift in preferences towards cooler and more northern destinations.
24:10 And it's not yet clear how such change is going to impact the country's economy.
24:16 If you take Rome, for example, Italy's capital, well,
24:19 several tourists have collapsed due to extreme temperatures in the past few days.
24:25 Georgia Orlandi there reporting from a very hot Italy,
24:28 where some people said it was like walking around in a sauna or having a hairdryer blown in your face.
24:32 I mean, how will countries like this adapt what they can offer to tourists?
24:35 That is an excellent question.
24:36 I think it's part of the policies that we're going to see moving forward,
24:39 because, as you said, the temperatures are so high that people are reconsidering their holidays,
24:43 deciding to move into colder places at some other point,
24:45 maybe coming to Europe earlier in the year because it's impossible to come during summer.
24:50 But it's important to make a reflection on what this means for European economies,
24:54 especially southern European economies, because we need transformation.
24:58 We can't rely anymore on tourism.
25:00 We saw that during the pandemic and we see even more now this summer.
25:02 And Garvin Walsh, is the EU you're taking this seriously?
25:05 I mean, you're seeing northern Europeans doing starting to behave a bit more like southern Europeans
25:09 who don't go to the sun in August because they know it's too hot.
25:12 They're going to have to change their plans.
25:14 The era of mass tourism for the sun in August is probably coming to an end
25:19 because it's getting too hot for that.
25:21 The same thing is going to happen in North Africa and Turkey as well.
25:24 And what the EU needs to really think about is how it can support the economies of these areas in different ways.
25:29 What are the new technologies?
25:30 What are the new sources of wealth that will enable these communities to survive and prosper?
25:34 And we've seen over in Germany doctors calling for siestas to be introduced for people to cope with this heat
25:39 because it will be dramatically changing in the next couple of years.
25:42 What do you feel the EU can do to support countries like your own?
25:46 Well, obviously, there are solutions that need to be brought in as short-term solutions.
25:51 More EU unity cooperation that we also saw last year.
25:54 And it's also funny to see that we're talking about record temperatures, record heat this year.
26:00 We also talked about last year and most probably next year temperatures will rise again.
26:04 But also long-term initiatives are very important, also informing citizens, informing tourists.
26:09 I mean, this is also very easy to say from our perspective here from Brussels
26:12 when we know almost whole Brussels in summer is empty because we all have vacations in August.
26:17 This is also maybe something to consider in the private sector, but also in the public sector to change the whole spectrum.
26:23 That would be changing the school as well.
26:25 Changing the school as well.
26:26 I mean, obviously, we know in Austria, for example, in the '70s,
26:28 they were introduced the so-called energy vacations in February that are still maintained up to date
26:33 to save energy.
26:34 So maybe just to adjust a little bit our systems on one hand,
26:39 and obviously long-term solutions that we all know because as we know, tourism is also important.
26:44 I mean, 5% of the whole gas climate emissions are due to the tourism.
26:51 And according to the European Central Bank, climate change could actually wipe out 4% of Europe's GDP by 2030.
26:57 That's, of course, in a worst-case scenario, Beatrix Rios.
27:01 But it's something I believe that you'll be reporting on more and more in the next few years.
27:04 For sure.
27:05 I mean, we are seeing that the consequences of climate change have become one of the main issues that we are discussing.
27:10 Now we're talking about tourism, but over the past few months, we have been talking a lot about agriculture due to droughts,
27:15 but also to massive flooding.
27:17 So that's incredibly difficult for farmers to deal with, and it's going to be at the core of the discussion, I think, on the EU as well.
27:23 We have seen even a shift into the money within the Common Agricultural Policy to try to support those farmers.
27:29 So I think all the consequences of climate change.
27:31 I'm going to have to stop you there, Beatrix Rios.
27:32 Thank you so much, and thank you as well to you for your insights, and thank you for watching.
27:36 Stay with us here, though, on Euronews, and of course, check out Euronews.com.
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27:47 Hello there. You're watching Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show.
27:52 I'm Maeve McMahon, and along with my panel, we're sifting through the news of the week.
27:56 And one story that took our fancy was this.
27:59 The Economist's chart on the best places in the world to live, and Europe is once again on top.
28:05 Vienna, the capital of Austria, has been number one for the past eight out of ten surveys,
28:10 followed by Copenhagen and then Melbourne.
28:13 Ratings are based on 30 factors, from stability to healthcare, culture to the environment, education to infrastructure.
28:20 So what do you think of this list? What makes Vienna so unique? Sandra?
28:24 Well, I myself, funny enough, lived in Vienna and studied there for eight years,
28:28 so there are really plenty of reasons why Vienna is the most livable city.
28:33 And also, funny enough, at the same moment, Vienna is the worst city for experts to live in,
28:38 and also maybe the reason why I'm here now in Brussels.
28:40 And will you stick around Brussels?
28:42 We'll see.
28:43 We'll see. Garvin, quick reaction?
28:45 There are very few European capital cities I wouldn't live in, but Vienna is one of them.
28:49 I find it incredibly stuffy, boring, lacking counterculture,
28:53 and the people who composed these index aren't interested in having an interesting life.
28:59 They're not interested in even buying food on a Sunday,
29:01 because even the convenience stores close at six o'clock.
29:04 Anyone from Vienna, do write in a comment there to that.
29:07 But we wanted to also hear what people here in Brussels feel a livable city should actually really look like.
29:11 So our Elie Liberte was out on the streets finding out.
29:15 A place where I can ride a bicycle without being harassed by angry people in cars,
29:21 a place where there's good public transportation that's paid for by our taxes,
29:26 and where people are at least nice enough to be relatively friendly.
29:33 They don't have to be too friendly.
29:35 I think it's really nice to have a clean city.
29:39 It puts a nice character to enjoy the city.
29:45 General prices for food and stuff, and being able to get everywhere,
29:50 the public transport is really important to being able to get where you need to go in the city.
29:54 Good pubs.
29:56 I think somewhere that can be both really busy, but also has its quieter moments,
30:00 so it's not too intense all the time.
30:03 So busy but quiet, green spaces, good public transport, the main points people are stressing there.
30:08 Beatrix, what makes a livable city in your eyes?
30:10 In my eyes, indeed, public transport, the fact that you can bike everywhere without getting into trouble,
30:14 that you also have a city that is adapted to climate change,
30:17 because we were talking about that before, so there is more green spaces,
30:20 it's more livable for citizens and not for cars,
30:23 and a city where you can feel integrated no matter your social and economic background.
30:29 I think that's important.
30:30 And will we ever see Brussels on that list?
30:32 They can finally sort out rubbish collection.
30:34 I think it's in a pretty good state.
30:37 People are very nice to cyclists.
30:41 It's walkable.
30:43 I think public transport is reasonable, but they really have to sort out rubbish collection.
30:47 Well, on waste collection, I was looking at a study by the European Parliament,
30:50 and seemingly in Denmark and also in Vienna, it's excellent.
30:54 It's exquisite.
30:55 But I think also that something we didn't talk about, Vienna and Copenhagen,
30:58 is also the social housing system, which is very good, and the access to housing is amazing,
31:02 and I think that really makes a difference.
31:04 That is a major issue, isn't it?
31:06 Brussels is also a very poor city.
31:07 You have to take that into account that a lot of the wealthy left in the '70s to live in Flanders,
31:11 and as a result, although it's the capital and although its economic growth figures
31:16 and the GDP figures are very high, the actual income of people living in Brussels is surprisingly low.
31:22 Yeah, and even though the taxes here are extremely high in Belgium, right?
31:26 Unfortunately.
31:29 What about you?
31:30 What would be the city that you would love to live in?
31:32 Oh, that's a very good question.
31:33 I actually wanted to live in Vienna at some point, because personally,
31:35 when I went there to visit a friend, I really enjoyed my time there.
31:38 But I'd like to live somewhere else outside Europe at some point.
31:42 Okay. Well, I'm afraid that is all we have time for for this edition of Brussels, My Love.
31:46 Thank you so much to our guests, to Beatrix, to Sandra, and also to Garvin Wall for being with us here, as always.
31:52 Your insights are brilliant.
31:54 And thank you so much to you for tuning in.
31:56 If you want to reach out to us, if you have any comments or any requests for topics, of course,
32:01 that you would like us to look into here at Euronews, please send us an email.
32:05 Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com.
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32:15 Take care.
32:16 And we'll see you soon here on Euronews and also on Euronews.com.
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