Brussels, my love? Is Turkey the best mediator in the Ukraine war?
In this edition of Brussels, my love? we discuss the unsuccessful Sochi summit between Turkish and Russian leaders and a new plan to clean up corruption in the EU institutions.
Transcript
00:00 Hello there and welcome to Bruxelles, je t'aime, Euronews' weekly talk show about European
00:19 news. On Brussels, my love, we take a closer look at some of the big stories of the week.
00:24 Hear what's at stake for you and for the continent. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us.
00:29 Coming up this week, all eyes on Sochi, where the Russian President Vladimir Putin was joined
00:35 by Turkey's recently re-elected Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Putting the ball in the West's court,
00:40 Vladimir Putin said he would only renew the Black Sea grain deal if a number of sanctions
00:45 were lifted. NATO Chief Jens Stoltenberg condemned this in the European Parliament Thursday during
00:51 a discussion about Ukraine, where Russian bombs have destroyed grain storage infrastructure.
00:56 We take a closer look. And nine months after an unsolved corruption scandal shook the European
01:03 Parliament to its core, MEPs voted on a 14-point plan to bring about more transparency and
01:09 less conflicts of interest. With European Parliament elections around the corner and
01:13 politicians hoping to win over hearts across the continent, we hear if what some call a
01:19 culture of impunity will ever come to an end inside EU institutions. Our panel this week,
01:25 Ian Lesser, Vice President of the American Think Tank, the German Marshall Fund. Welcome.
01:29 Good to be with you. Sandra Pasadic, from the centre-right political
01:34 think tank, the Wilfrid Martin Centre. Welcome. Thank you.
01:38 And Petrus Vassoulas, Secretary General of the European Movement, which is a pro-European
01:42 campaigning group. Nice to be here.
01:45 Welcome. Thanks to you all for being with us on what was, I must say, a very busy News
01:50 Week. But before we get your points of view, I'd just like to hear or tell our viewers
01:53 what was on people's minds here in Brussels this week. Luis Alberto has the story.
02:00 Living the best of both worlds. Turkish President Erdogan alongside Russia's Vladimir Putin
02:05 and Sochi earlier this week. From trade to tourism to energy, the two leaders stood side
02:11 by side, looking closer than ever. The main message from Vladimir Putin ahead of this
02:16 weekend's G20 summit in India, no green deal unless sanctions are stopped. Many hoped an
02:23 agreement could be clinched to ensure vital food supplies get into Africa, the Middle
02:27 East and Asia. As the war in Ukraine drags on and the Ukrainian
02:33 offensive advances slowly, diplomats in Brussels are left guessing whose side Turkey is on
02:39 and if the Russian President will have another visitor soon. Kim Jong-un.
02:46 Luis Alberto is reporting for us there on that Sochi summit, which clearly was a failure
02:51 with no green deal being clinched. What would be your takeaways, Ian Lesser?
02:57 Well clearly it was a failure by that measure. But for President Erdogan, this is obviously
03:03 another opportunity to try to make clear Turkey's importance in terms of the war, in terms of
03:08 negotiations with Russia. And as your story mentioned, Turkey has very complicated stakes
03:14 in this. It has a big economic relationship with Russia. They get a lot of energy from
03:19 Russia, tourism, other kinds of trade. At the same time, they ship arms to Ukraine.
03:26 And there's certainly a security stakeholder along with other NATO allies, especially in
03:29 the Black Sea, where Russia and Turkey could actually get themselves into trouble. So,
03:33 you know, it was an important opportunity, I think, for President Erdogan in terms of
03:37 diplomacy around the conflict. Not much. Yeah, President Erdogan's certainly in a
03:42 very interesting position and Vladimir Putin obviously very happy to have him there because
03:47 he can whisper some things in his ear as well about what's being said at the NATO headquarters.
03:51 But just back on that green deal, Sandra Pasaric, we heard from the NATO Secretary General here
03:55 in Brussels this Thursday condemning Putin for not renewing it when speaking to members
04:00 of the European Parliament. What more can Europe do really to renew this?
04:04 Well, I definitely agree with Ian Lesser because before starting to criticise Erdogan, I also
04:10 think it's very important to underline that Putin's behaviour is highly cynical and criminal.
04:15 He's condemning Ukraine for not doing enough, not using this one-year green deal to support
04:21 undeveloped country, whereas Ukraine has done everything. We can see that the green deal
04:26 has been transported to 57 undeveloped countries, developing countries, and the rest has been
04:31 exported mostly to China, Spain, Turkey, and Italy.
04:36 What can the European Union do? First of all, stop believing that there is going to be any
04:40 deal with Russia. There won't be any because what Putin is trying to get now out of it,
04:47 he's putting some conditions on the table that just cannot be done and they don't have
04:51 anything to do with the green deal, such as regaining their access to the Swift banking
04:57 system and so on. The European Union should, first of all, stop believing that there is
05:01 going to be any deal with Putin and with Erdogan in this sense. Some EU member states, they
05:05 are already being active, such as Bulgaria, Greece, and my home country, Croatia. They
05:10 are offering their railway networks and Croatia is also offering Adriatic Sea port as an alternative
05:16 route. Some might argue that alternative routes are not feasible enough, but I would definitely
05:23 say one of the options would be the Danube port route, maybe throughout Romania. Any
05:27 deal that doesn't include Russia is the best deal.
05:30 Petrus Vassilis, what is at stake here? Of course, Ukraine is the breadbasket to the
05:34 world.
05:35 Yes, and that's the really risky thing, because neither Putin nor Erdogan care so much about
05:40 the well-being of the developing world. They see this as a power play to advance their
05:45 own agendas and the people who end up suffering are those that need this deal the most. So
05:50 just to echo what has been already said, I think the responsibility of the EU is to provide
05:54 alternatives to the people of Africa that depend on this deal, to actually access the
06:01 food stock that they require and stop dealing or giving too much importance to strongmen
06:08 who are either warmongers or authoritarians that only care about their own political survival.
06:14 Well, of course, before the Turkish elections, we saw President Erdogan turning a little
06:18 bit away from his friendship with Vladimir Putin. He met with President Joe Biden on
06:23 the sidelines of the Vilnius Summit in Lithuania, just when he'd given, of course, the green
06:26 light to Sweden. So I guess the question is, is President Erdogan of Turkey, is he a good
06:32 mediator when it comes to trying to end this war?
06:35 I think Turkey can play an important role as a facilitator and maybe a mediator, but
06:40 the conditions have to exist. And as we were saying, they don't exist for that kind of
06:44 an agreement. I think as this goes on, you know, Turkey has real stakes in this and shares
06:50 them with the West, actually. There are things that can go wrong in security terms with Russia
06:55 in the Black Sea that would affect Turkey directly. And I think, you know, quite apart
06:58 from the shipment of foodstuffs, the whole question of just passage through the Black
07:04 Sea of maritime transport in the Black Sea is going to become a more and more critical
07:09 one for all Western allies. And Turkey is a key stakeholder in that. So, you know, we
07:14 may not all, you know, Turkey is not an easy ally, never was an easy ally, but in this
07:18 case also probably a critical one.
07:20 A critical one. And of course, this week we saw a European commissioner, the European
07:24 commissioner in charge for enlargement, that's Oliver Verhey. He was over in Ankara for two
07:29 days speaking with Turkish officials and the business community, of course, on that partnership.
07:35 But just to bring up what the President Erdogan said the other day in Sochi when he was speaking
07:40 to journalists there, he sounded a little bit more optimistic than Vladimir Putin, the
07:43 Russian president, saying, we will reach a solution on the Black Sea grain deal that
07:48 will meet the expectations in a short time. And then he added, Ukraine needs to especially
07:54 soften its approaches in order for joint steps to be taken with Russia. Now, that message,
08:00 Petros, went down very badly over in Ukraine, where, of course, Antony Blinken, the Secretary
08:04 of State, was this week trying to increase diplomatic efforts, of course, as well to
08:07 end the war.
08:08 Indeed. And again, that's where Mr. Erdogan positions himself as an unreliable partner.
08:16 It's very difficult to engage with someone whose affiliations are questioned by the key
08:21 players in this. And again, it also demonstrates, I think, to some extent, the need for the
08:27 EU to step up in this play, the need of the EU to stop relying on unreliable partners
08:32 for a variety of things, including energy, but also negotiations, and take a much stronger
08:37 position.
08:38 So should Commissioner Verheyen not have gone to Ankara this week? I mean, what do you want
08:42 the EU to do when you say it should step up?
08:45 Well, it's long overdue, but really challenge people like Erdogan, who has undermined democracy
08:50 in his own country, and make sure that that partnership isn't, as we saw in the case of
08:56 the refugee crisis and the migration pact that the EU had with Turkey, which actually
09:00 violated a lot of the values that the EU is built upon.
09:04 So it's very risky when you're cutting deals with people who don't play according to the
09:07 same rules and they don't share your values. You actually undermine your own moral position
09:11 as much as everything else. And we've seen it also in the context of the Green Deal now,
09:14 where a lot of people in the developing world don't necessarily see the EU as a facilitator
09:18 because they don't really trust what we have to offer.
09:21 And Joseph Borrell looking at himself in the mirror wondering why that is. That's a big
09:25 question of course that comes up here in Brussels. But just regarding criticising Turkey, the
09:30 platform perhaps for doing that used to be the forum where they had the talks on the
09:34 enlargement of the European Union, because of course Turkey has applied to enter the
09:37 European Union many decades ago. Those talks were on hold, tensions, there's been a lot
09:42 of tensions there. What do you think the European Union should do regarding this?
09:46 Well obviously the question here is not what the European Union should do, it's what Turkey
09:50 should do. And also the European Union should definitely change the approach and not only
09:54 always go to Erdogan to ask him for any kind of deals or agreements. The European Union
09:58 should more take a different stance in approaching civil society. Civil society is very strong.
10:05 So putting more money there into projects, trying to empower people, Turkish citizens,
10:10 trying to empower their will and showing them the right way. Also putting more money into
10:14 businesses because when businesses see they can trade, they can work together with the
10:19 other EU member states, they will have their own claims on their own government. And this
10:24 is where the real change can come. But also before coming to that, we can see there are
10:28 a number of examples where we can see that Turkey is just unreliable. On one hand they're
10:32 playing with Russia, they also have released some of the Ukrainian prisoners from Turkey,
10:37 even though this was against the agreement with Russia. So Erdogan is also not anymore
10:43 that sympathetic to Moscow, but also at the same time not to the European Union. And we
10:47 should not forget that. He's just trying to get breadcrumbs from both sides.
10:50 Ian Lassar, what are you hearing in diplomatic circles? I mean, are NATO allies getting constantly
10:54 frustrated with President Erdogan?
10:57 Well actually that relationship is probably in better shape today than it was a few months
11:01 ago after the Vilnius summit. President Erdogan arrived at the Vilnius summit as a problem
11:08 and he went away, if not as a hero, at least as someone who was being praised for saying
11:11 yes to Sweden finally in the end. But you know, these problems that we're talking about
11:16 with Turkey actually exist on both sides of the Atlantic. And in some ways the American
11:19 relationship with Turkey is even worse than the European one. Europe and Turkey can't
11:24 get away from each other. They're contiguous, they share all of these interests, they don't
11:28 always agree. You know, Europe needs some agreement with Turkey on migration, on security,
11:37 on many, many, many things. But the problem, of course, as we said, is that the practice
11:41 inside the country has just gone in a direction that, you know, at least many in Europe would
11:46 not like to see and most in Washington would not like to see either. So it's sort of a
11:51 really difficult but rather essential partner, I would put it that way.
11:55 But maybe to continue in a more positive way, I think both presidents, both Putin and Erdogan,
12:00 have a soft spot or a complex. And I would say definitely for Putin is this, he doesn't
12:04 want to be blamed for the world famine. This is the reason why he's talking again about
12:07 the grain deal. And he even said together with Turkey and Qatar, he will try to save
12:11 the global south. And then for Erdogan, for his complex, I would definitely say he wants
12:16 to be some kind, he wants to present himself as a global leader, a Muslim leader. And also
12:20 he has a soft spot for Americans. He wishes for Biden to roll out the red carpet for him
12:25 every time he visits him. So I think these are the points that the West, the global West
12:29 should use.
12:30 And that's why he's deeply unpopular on Capitol Hill, though, even if he could convince the
12:33 president, which he may or may not. But I agree.
12:38 Let's talk about another friendship that we were discussing a lot here in Brussels this
12:42 week, that of the friendship between Vladimir Putin and North Korea's Kim Jong-un. Earlier
12:46 this week, I spoke to the US ambassador to the European Union to ask him whether he was
12:50 concerned about North Korea potentially supplying Russia with arms and a potential meeting.
12:55 But Ambassador Mark Gittinsheim was actually unfazed. Take a listen.
12:59 Putin's outreach to the North Koreans is an indication of our success. By that I mean
13:06 the EU and the United States and Putin's failure. Because export controls and sanctions have
13:12 degraded the Russian military so much, and I hear this from military people all the time,
13:17 that he's reaching out to arms suppliers that he would probably have never talked to before.
13:23 And he's desperate for arms. And that's why he's meeting with Kim. And I think it's an
13:29 indication of failure, not success.
13:33 Ambassador Mark Gittinsheim, Petrus, what is your view on that? Does Vladimir Putin
13:37 really look desperate now?
13:38 Oh, absolutely. And this is not the first move that has made him look desperate. He's
13:42 running out of allies left and right. Former partners are turning their back on them. The
13:47 Russian economy, the Russian military is in disarray. Absolutely. I mean, this is a man
13:52 who is clinging for dear life. And to echo the ambassador's position, again, he should
13:58 demonstrate the success to a large extent of Western unity, both of the European Union
14:04 but also our American allies, in really putting the pressure on someone who up until recently
14:09 looked impregnable. He looked omnipotent and super powerful. And I think we should continue
14:15 down that road. And rather than give in to blackmails or be tempted by the idea of negotiations
14:22 with someone who doesn't believe in negotiations at all, I think it's important for the Western
14:27 alliance to remain united and very strong on this.
14:30 In Lasser, for Kim, obviously, of North Korea, he doesn't get out much, of course. I think
14:34 the last time he got out was 2019 when he had a previous meeting. What's your take on
14:38 all this? Is anyone really concerned?
14:40 I fully agree with what the ambassador said and what Petrus has said. I think it is a
14:46 sign of Russian weakness. It is a sign of, in a sense, desperation to secure military
14:51 hardware. The relationship with Iran is another case of this. That said, these things can
14:57 be rather dangerous. Actually, the truth is that North Korea has a lot of artillery and
15:03 a lot of artillery shells, and these things are needed, and they can prolong the war in
15:07 very dangerous or costly ways, taken together. So I do think we should be concerned about
15:11 it. But it is, I think, as the ambassador said, just a show of how desperate the situation
15:19 has become for Russia.
15:20 And the longer, of course, as you said, the war goes on, the more possibility mistakes
15:24 can be made.
15:25 Exactly. I mean, at this point, we don't see any near-term prospect of a settlement. And
15:32 the truth is that for all NATO allies, it's a concern that the longer this conflict goes,
15:38 the chances of something simply going wrong accumulate in the Black Sea, in the Baltic,
15:43 on the border with Poland. There are many, many possibilities, including with Turkey,
15:48 where accidents can become incidents, can spin out of control, and can escalate.
15:53 Like this week in Romania, we saw Russian drones, parts of Russian drones landing there.
15:57 And this even one day before the deal was supposed to be, we assumed. They were bombing
16:01 also the south region of Odessa. And talking about Odessa, it's very important here and
16:05 crucial point to talk about Crimea, the diamond-shaped half-island and also the size of Belgium.
16:12 It's also a very important side. I think that the new elected defence minister of Ukraine,
16:16 Mr. Umriyyev, he is a Crimean Tatar, meaning that this is a very strong point to the West,
16:23 that there won't be any talks about the future without Crimea. Everything started with Crimea,
16:28 and the talks will only be reassumed about the peace if Ukraine regains Crimea.
16:33 And the fact, I think, that this is dragging on and is expected, indeed, to last longer,
16:39 it's another reminder that we here in Europe, we do have done our homework on defence and
16:42 security long ago. Again, the partnership with the US is very strong. It's a long-term
16:48 one that will hopefully continue in the future. But that has allowed the Europeans perhaps
16:53 not to invest as much as we should, not necessarily just on the hardware, but also on the decision-making
16:57 structures. And again, the war in Ukraine has made things move much faster. We've seen
17:03 the peace facility being activated, huge amounts of money being invested into lethal weapons.
17:11 But still, we should have put in place different structures, we should have unified our defence
17:16 security industry, but also our foreign policy, much sooner.
17:20 But that's the EU, right? It always takes a massive crisis before action is actually
17:25 taken. Only this week we were hearing all these conversations about increasing defence
17:28 budgets and conversations that, as you say, should have taken place many years ago.
17:32 It's also changed American minds, I think, at least in the foreign policy establishment.
17:36 You'll find people who will disagree in Washington. But the truth is that the kind of, you know,
17:41 if Europe spends more and does more and organises itself better for defence, that's an American
17:46 interest. It's certainly my view. I think it's broadly shared by the Biden administration,
17:49 whether it be shared by any administration in Washington, it's hard to know. But I think
17:54 it would be, frankly. You know, it's simply an American interest at a time when, you know,
17:59 the US is worried more and more about Asia and about China.
18:02 And of course, you've got elections next year over there.
18:04 Ah, yes, we do.
18:05 Which we will, of course, talk about a lot. But like the American, regular American voter,
18:09 are they still concerned about the war in Ukraine?
18:11 I don't think this is at the top of anybody's agenda politically in the United States. But
18:17 traditionally that's true. Foreign policy is not usually how elections are decided in
18:21 the United States. But there's no question that the challengers to the Biden administration,
18:26 Trump above all, but also others in the Republican Party are making this case that, you know,
18:30 this is something for Europe to do itself. It's a burden sharing issue. You know, this
18:34 is an America's fight. It's all about China. If there's anything that Republicans and Democrats
18:38 actually agree on these days, it seems to be a harder line on China.
18:42 And just briefly, Sandra, inside your political party, are you all feeling satisfied that
18:47 enough has been done to support Ukraine and help end the war?
18:51 Well, the European People's Party was definitely the first party, one of the first ones who
18:54 came out and showed their strong support towards Ukraine. We are doing a lot also within our
18:59 political foundation, the Martin Center. We have done already back in 2014. We've started
19:04 the Ukraine reforms even way before anybody thought there is a chance to bring Ukraine
19:09 closer to the European Union. This is our main goal, obviously, and we're doing everything
19:14 we can to support Ukraine and its citizens.
19:17 But meanwhile, it feels that we are very much in long war mode and no one knows when this
19:22 atrocity will end. But I'm afraid that is all we have time for on this topic. But do
19:27 stay with us here on Euronews as well if you need any news updates coming out of Delhi
19:31 out of the G20 this weekend. But after the break, we'll be checking in with the European
19:35 Parliament to see has anything, anything changed since the corruption scandal that rocked that
19:41 institution to its core last December.
19:53 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show. I'm Maeve MacMahon. Now,
19:59 this week was a busy one here in Brussels with lots of announcements and some key votes.
20:03 One that caught our attention was about the 14-point plan drafted by the European Parliament
20:08 President Roberto Mezzola to clean up the mess made by a corruption scandal last winter.
20:13 MEPs voted on Thursday on a new revolving door policy, mandatory declaration of meetings,
20:19 a ban on friendship groups and more transparency on financial declarations. That vote took
20:24 place in the Constitutional Committee, 15 in favour, 10 against and one abstaining.
20:29 A bigger vote will take place next week in Strasbourg. So I'd like to ask you all, what
20:33 do you think of this plan? Can you really change things with a piece of paper? Petros?
20:38 It's all about culture. It's all about political will. And it's also often about the kind of
20:43 people that the capital sent over to the European Parliament and they put forward. Because yes,
20:48 you can have a plan in place, but if the MEPs don't adhere to it, then you still have a
20:54 problem. On the specifics of this, I think it's a welcome addition to the arsenal for
20:59 anti-corruption, because this scandal affects not just the political party, not just an
21:03 institution, but the whole of the EU. The average voter doesn't distinguish between
21:07 one party or the other, doesn't even distinguish between one institution and another. They
21:11 hear EU and corruption and automatically the damage is done.
21:14 And Brussels, they hear Brussels and then, yeah.
21:17 Not everybody loves Brussels as much as we do.
21:20 This is why we have a programme called Brussels, my love, with a question mark. It discusses
21:24 everything.
21:25 So that's why I think this is a collective effort. It's not just down to the European
21:29 Parliament. It's not just down to the President of the European Parliament. I think the member
21:33 states have a big responsibility, the national parties have a big responsibility to ensure
21:37 that yes, the rules are adhered, but also the quality of members that we sent over,
21:42 those that we stand for office, are indeed impeccable. And of course you will have corruption.
21:46 There's always corruption. It's human nature. But how we deal with it is important.
21:51 Well, I wouldn't agree that much because we at the Martin Centre, we just recently
21:54 had a great survey that we did in 27 member states and we were asking the middle classes
22:01 throughout the European Union, what are their concerns? What do they expect from the future
22:07 of the Europe from the 2024 elections?
22:10 And actually the polls have shown that more citizens have trust in the European Parliament
22:16 than their national parliaments. And also I think it's different if you're coming from
22:20 a side, maybe it might be different corruption scandals, numbers of it, and a view versus
22:25 Nordic countries. But I would definitely say the view is rather positive. And some MEPs,
22:31 they even themselves say that they see European Parliament as more developed institution,
22:36 it's more transparent institution than their national parliaments.
22:39 Ines, what is the view from DC?
22:42 Well, it's interesting because of course, you know, someone who would be familiar with
22:46 Washington and Brussels is in some ways more and more like Washington, allowing for scale
22:50 all the time. You know, actually, I think it's better, it's healthier here. You have
22:54 these corruption scandals and obviously this is a welcome development to try to tighten
22:59 this up because it's linked to perceptions of democracy and the prestige of parliaments
23:03 and things like this. It's important to do. But, you know, at least here you don't have
23:07 the vast amounts of money that are at stake in American elections. But it does remind
23:11 me very much of the kind of debates that go on in Washington, the bigger scale, with the
23:16 lobbying and the revolving door, which in Washington is a way of life, actually. You
23:23 know, it's a little bit of a, it does remind me of Washington.
23:26 Well, I'm sure it caught the attention of people in Washington because it was somewhat
23:29 similar to a Netflix thriller, wasn't it? With the wads of cash being found in suitcases.
23:34 I mean, not even electronic cash. But we spoke to some NGOs here in Brussels because obviously
23:39 they have been following this story very carefully every single day. Like Corporate Europe Observatory,
23:44 we asked Oliver Houdemain what he thought of this 14 point plan.
23:49 The proposals weren't enough, but there were some very powerful and important reforms in
23:55 those proposals in the 14 points. For example, a ban on the revolving door moves of MEPs
24:01 and also the obligation to disclose all lobby meetings. Those are really important proposals.
24:06 And then unfortunately, the level of ambition has really gone down since then. For example,
24:10 the revolving door rules are only for six months. So it really doesn't help, doesn't
24:15 really make sense. So we've seen the level of ambition go down. It's been frustrating
24:19 that it's been so slow. And also that some powerful MEPs, we've seen them really try
24:23 to weaken the level of ambition. And that's very unfortunate after such a terrible scandal.
24:30 The words of Oliver Houdemain there from Corporate Europe Observatory. I mean, we do understand,
24:34 Petra, that members of the Greens and the Socialists, which is of course the political
24:38 group to which all those arrested belong to, they were pushing to tighten and propose more
24:43 amendments for this.
24:45 Indeed. And it's understandable. Obviously, when a member of your political family is
24:49 caught in such a scandal, you need to appear that you're cracking down on those practices
24:54 and you need to make sure that that perception spreads beyond the brass's bubble. And I think
25:00 the point is that the European Parliament itself is trusted compared to some national
25:05 parliaments indeed. But we still have about 50 percent of people voting for European elections.
25:11 And we have a lot of people who will either not vote in the next elections or will vote
25:17 for parties that are, for lack of a better term, anti-European. So that's why I'm saying
25:22 that it's very important to build on the good reputation of the EU and make sure that the
25:26 work that the European Parliament does isn't tarnished by these kind of perceptions. I
25:31 think Ian was also right. The emperor's wife cannot just be full of good intentions. Those
25:38 intentions must also translate into action. And I think what we do between now and the
25:44 next European elections is very important to ensure that this scandal doesn't affect
25:48 that perception, the good perception that citizens have of the EU.
25:52 Do you think it will?
25:53 I think these things have a kind of half-life as stories. And so I think, you know, if there's
26:00 going to be action on this, I think sooner rather than later, because over time it seems
26:05 to me the energy can easily go out of these kinds of efforts.
26:07 Well, there was a report in the Belgian media here last week about the socialist MEP, Maria
26:12 Reyna, that her son allegedly had 280,000 euros on him. I mean, this is all allegedly.
26:20 We don't have any more details on this, but it is quite damaging for that political group.
26:24 Yeah, indeed. And I'm also not surprised about the hard line that they have taken, the socialists,
26:30 because I think the even hard line would be for Hidalgo Garcia, maybe to the president
26:35 of socialists, to step down from her position. And also we all remember just the days after
26:39 and I wouldn't agree also that it was slow. The reaction wasn't slow. I mean, we all remember
26:43 here in Brussels, we were receiving on our WhatsApp phones the photo of a confiscated
26:47 office of Eva Kaila, the socialist MEP involved in the whole Qatar gait. But also the response
26:53 of the whole parliament as such was very quick. Also European Parliament, Roberta Metsula,
26:59 she has a very hard line on this. This plan is actually proposed by her. The immunity
27:04 of Eva Kaila was also taken in a matter of days. And I think it's a very positive sign.
27:10 This is also one of the reasons why Roberta Metsula, she entered into politics to fight
27:14 against corruption and she will do everything in her power to improve European Parliament,
27:18 to be more transparent and more loyal to its citizens.
27:22 Let's see if that is the case. Thank you so much, Sandra. And thank you to you both as
27:24 well for being with us. I'm afraid that is all we have time for on this topic. As I said,
27:28 a vote will take place in Strasbourg next week. But for now, see you soon. Take care.
27:41 Hello there. Welcome back to Brussels. My love, your news's weekly talk show. I'm Maeve
27:46 McMahon. And along with my panel, we're talking through the view from Brussels on some of
27:50 the big stories of the week. And one item that triggered a fiery debate in our newsroom
27:56 was the announcement that the Turkish Dutch owned Cardan Airlines will start offering
28:00 their passengers child free zones on transatlantic flights. If of course, they pay more for their
28:06 seat. I think it's around 45 euros more they would have to pay in lesser. What are your
28:11 thoughts? Would you pay more to be in that adult only zone?
28:15 My solution to this is by noise cancelling headphones. Much more because I, you know,
28:22 there may be some inconvenience and it's never pleasant to have a lot of noise around you.
28:26 I mean, I fly a lot. I fly a lot across the Atlantic. There are no end of issues and problems
28:32 and things that you would like to fix. This is probably not the biggest one in my view.
28:37 What's your take, Sandra?
28:38 Well, personally, obviously, I also have an opinion. And I'm rather bothered by this noise.
28:45 But I would say we need to take a more general view and see that passenger rights are getting
28:50 smaller and smaller. Just if you think you're not even allowed to travel with hand luggage,
28:56 you have to pay and every time you have to pay more, you're not allowed to bring any
29:02 other items on the plane. So I think this is more concerning than this.
29:05 What about you, Petrus? Your take?
29:07 Well, somebody should give a bonus to the PR office of this airline because everybody's
29:11 talking about them. This is free advertising at exactly the moment where people are coming
29:15 back from holiday and planning their next holiday. So great move, I would say. But on
29:19 the substance, we, you know, a lot of us have kids. All of us have been kids. We know that,
29:25 yes, they can be loud and annoying. But I think the answer here isn't segregating people
29:30 by tolerance, understanding and yes, noise cancelling headphones, perhaps common sense
29:36 and acceptance that people around us might be in a difficult position. Their kids might
29:41 be distressed, hungry, tired, and we need to be tolerable.
29:46 Or have ear pains, which they suffer from a lot. But I'd also like to ask what about
29:49 stag parties or hen parties, bachelorettes? But first, we also wanted to check in with
29:54 Belgium's largest airline to see if they were thinking of doing the same. So I visited the
29:58 HQ of Brussels Airlines to speak to the onboard product and service manager, that's Lionel
30:03 Severance.
30:04 No, I don't think that's something we are aiming to. We want everyone to feel welcome.
30:11 Our crew is first well trained, they're experienced. And also we have a lot of moms and dads working
30:18 at Brussels Airlines, who themselves have children at home. On our long flight, we have
30:23 a nice entertainment system, which has a wide range of cartoons and dedicated movies for
30:31 children. Also, sometimes we try to involve them in the service if they get bored, and
30:37 they might distribute the napkins to their passengers. Or we might take them for a tour
30:42 inside the galley and show them around.
30:44 So Brussels Airlines, they're really distancing themselves away from that story and the potentiality
30:49 of ever doing such a move.
30:51 Well, then again, some would argue this is child exploitation, one of the solutions that
30:56 Mr. Severance mentioned.
30:59 Monetising discomfort. I had not heard of this airline before, this story. So I mean,
31:06 at that level, perhaps it's a success for them. I just don't think it's such an important
31:10 issue. And I think your representative from Brussels Airlines has it about right. I mean,
31:14 if you go down this road, where does it really end? You know, it's already not so pleasant.
31:19 There is, of course, a solution, not an entire solution, but some solution to this, and it's
31:23 called business class. It's hugely expensive and more and more expensive all the time.
31:28 I believe that the customer, the custom isn't there. I think some people are very irritated,
31:35 of course, by noise in general. But like you said, there are many reasons to be irritated
31:39 in an aeroplane. We're all cramped in a small space. We're trying to get somewhere fast.
31:43 Of course, where do you stop?
31:45 Even though I've seen a lot of polls, because I was also quite taken by this story, but
31:48 there are a lot of polls of people saying they would actually pay more just to have
31:53 that silence on flight for those long flights. So it is interesting to hear all the various
31:57 opinions on that story. And if you have an opinion on that story as well, or any of the
32:02 stories that we've covered for you here, please reach out to us. Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com.
32:09 But for now, I would like to say thank you to Dr. Ian Lesser, Sandra Pasalic and Petros
32:14 Fasoulis. Thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for watching. We'll see
32:17 you soon here on Euronews, and of course over on euronews.com.
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