I will continue to fight trouble-causing illegal miners - Ogyeahoho Yaw Gyebi II | The Big Stories
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00:00 Alright, so welcome back to the AM show and today because we have royalty in the house
00:05 We're having an aesthetic version of the AM show
00:08 We have been joined by Ojiyahoho Yaujebi II. He is the paramount chief of
00:16 Anuyaso traditional area, the president of the House of Chiefs
00:22 national House of Chiefs a
00:25 former president of the Western region House of Chiefs and
00:30 Today we are so glad to have him in our studios
00:35 Nana, I'm so glad to have you here.
00:39 I'm so glad to be here.
00:42 I'm so glad to be here.
00:49 I'm so glad to be here.
00:51 I'm so glad to be here.
00:53 Thank you for coming.
00:55 I mean we know that your traditional area is part of the
00:59 Western North which was created some few years back.
01:02 How is the economy like in Anuyaso?
01:06 Well, thank you very much and a good morning to all your viewers and to all Ghanaians.
01:13 To all your listeners.
01:15 The economy in Bivini is buoyant, it's good.
01:19 My people are basically farmers but apart from that
01:23 we have those who are also into trading
01:27 and we have four mining companies there.
01:30 Chira Anu gold mines, Mincing gold mines at Bivini,
01:34 Awasoboxite and then another one at Mrewak.
01:39 Oh, okay.
01:40 Yeah.
01:41 And your area is economically sound?
01:43 We are blessed.
01:44 We also have timber abundance, in abundance.
01:47 Okay.
01:48 Yeah.
01:49 I hope for the timber, they are not being destroyed by illegal miners.
01:51 Well, it looks like they have destroyed a greater part of the forest
01:56 and now we are not having too much problem from illegal loggers.
02:03 Okay.
02:07 So, I mean, but illegal miners are not causing trouble.
02:12 The illegal miners are causing trouble.
02:15 They are there and I will continue to fight them.
02:19 Okay.
02:20 You are fighting them now?
02:22 I'm fighting, I've been fighting them
02:24 and somewhere two years ago I even bragged that in my area we do have a guarantee there.
02:31 But unfortunately, it started.
02:33 I don't know whether it's because relations are close by and they think,
02:40 so I don't know, but I've been fighting them.
02:43 Just this week I sent a team there
02:46 and when you look at the proceeding guy front page,
02:50 something is captured there.
02:52 Oh, okay.
02:53 As in the team you've sent there and what they are doing.
02:56 The team there, they have come back with their report and they have a copy.
03:01 So, we are going to deal with them.
03:03 Okay.
03:04 That's good to hear.
03:05 I mean, this morning we watched a certain video
03:08 and how devastating they had destroyed a certain forest.
03:11 Is that how it is, you know, what we are seeing on the screen?
03:15 Is that how it is in your area?
03:17 Certain parts, yes.
03:19 Yes.
03:20 Certain parts of my area, the Amyansu East Forest Reserve.
03:25 You are right, they are there.
03:27 Wow.
03:28 But how do they gain entry into those forest reserves?
03:33 Well, what do I say?
03:36 Before you say Jack, somebody will come and tell you the glimpsers are in the forest.
03:42 So, what do we do?
03:43 Because by the regulations we are not close with authority to go and check them.
03:49 So, what we do is that we normally report to the police.
03:52 When it gets out of hand, then we go to the national security.
03:56 Okay.
03:57 Yeah.
03:58 Okay.
03:59 And quite often I invite national security from Accra to go and flush them out.
04:05 The regional minister is a friend, Jojo Roque.
04:07 Yeah, he is also part of the fight against the Gallam Sey and illegal mining.
04:14 Yes.
04:15 Why is it so difficult for us to really keep illegal mining under control in these areas?
04:24 One, it's unemployment.
04:27 Two, when elections are close, the authority of people in power is reduced.
04:34 They are very careful.
04:36 They need the numbers to vote for them, so they are very careful.
04:39 Three, I tend to believe that big persons are also involved.
04:47 In some cases, NANAM are also involved.
04:50 Okay.
04:51 And lastly, NANAM are not part of the regulatory regime.
04:56 So, all that we can do is to draw the attention of the police.
04:59 And sometimes when you draw their attention to them, they also tell you they don't have logistics.
05:03 Okay.
05:04 Yeah, so these are some of the issues.
05:06 Which means that we cannot win the war then against illegal mining.
05:09 Well, I believe we can, except that governments should vote money big one and go out one time.
05:17 Make sure.
05:18 Government almost succeeded, especially when they started banning, what do you have?
05:22 The excavators.
05:23 The excavators and so on and so forth.
05:25 Government almost won, but I don't know what happened.
05:28 I don't know what happened.
05:30 You remember His Excellency the President said, his…
05:34 He's putting his presidency on the line.
05:36 On the line.
05:37 Unfortunately, after the elections, when his vote reduced drastically, I believe the party before advised him.
05:46 So, they have slowed down.
05:47 That's what I would say.
05:48 Government has slowed down.
05:50 Yeah.
05:51 That is my observation.
05:52 So, it means that if every party is going to be afraid of losing, then we're not going to win this war.
06:00 We're going to try to say we are doing something, but actually we won't.
06:04 That is a problem.
06:05 Politicians need power.
06:08 And so, they don't mind.
06:10 Sometimes they even encourage them, you go ahead, when I come to power, I will regularize your activities for you.
06:18 And this government has also introduced what they call a community mining.
06:22 Some of them too are not working well.
06:26 They only select individuals, then they put all their resources behind them and they do whatever they want to do.
06:33 Another area is that the landowners are also not contacted, even when they allocate plots of land to miners.
06:41 And in a village, you go and show a paper to a chief.
06:46 So, once the paper is from government, with a seal there, it thinks he has the authority to do whatever he wants to do.
06:53 Except that when it comes to some of the divisional chiefs and the parliament chiefs, we go further to interrogate and make sure that we go further.
07:02 And sometimes, even the area allocated to the miner is different from where he's doing his operations.
07:12 So, how do we cure that?
07:15 Involve NANAM.
07:17 We have always demanded, involve NANAM.
07:20 We are there, I have several chiefs under me.
07:24 And sometimes I tell them, if this thing goes on in your area, I will hold you responsible.
07:30 Just about three weeks ago, I caught four of my chiefs arrested and sent to police station to sign an undertaking.
07:38 We will never, never, never encourage a grantee in their area.
07:41 But once they've been arrested, then that's disturbance, then.
07:44 Well, you don't go that far.
07:46 It's not always that.
07:48 When sometimes somebody does something wrong, they all give excuses.
07:52 Some of them, they were not directly involved.
07:56 Some of them will tell you, yeah, it is because they even said you NANA, Omanene, has sanctioned their presence here, and so on and so forth.
08:05 So, what you do is that you question them and tell them any time anybody mentions my name or the chief executive, no, whatever, whatever, find out from that person.
08:15 Whether or not he has actually sanctioned anybody to do operations there.
08:20 So, these are some of the steps we are taking.
08:23 And at the National House of Chiefs, too, we also always talk to our chiefs to ensure that guarantee is not encouraged in areas.
08:31 But when you go to the Forest Reserve, they are under the management of the Forestry Commission.
08:38 So, these are areas that we don't go.
08:41 We don't go there.
08:43 So, when you do hunting there and you are arrested, you are prosecuted.
08:47 Sometime before, you say, hey, Jack, they are there in their numbers, excavators, 10, 15, with security people there.
08:56 So, you ask yourself, who authorized the people to go there?
09:00 And when you go to, you don't get anybody to give you information.
09:04 What you do is that you start finding out from the chief executive, from the MP, you come to the Minerals Commission, and so on and so forth.
09:14 And at each point, most of them will tell you, we don't know the presence of such a group there.
09:20 So, what it means is that you, the chief yourself, you use your resources to ask national security to come and go and flash them.
09:32 That is when, if you have the resources yourself, you do it.
09:36 If you don't have it, then that's it.
09:38 You throw your hands into the air.
09:40 But why haven't the four mining companies in the area still helped to deal with illegal mining?
09:47 Well, as far as their concessions are concerned, people are not there.
09:51 Once in a while, you get the local boys who go and do small garlands, those ones are not serious.
09:58 I am referring to a forest that has not been allocated, and then people go in there to do the illegal mining.
10:05 In effect, what it means is that it doesn't have an owner.
10:11 In quotes, it doesn't have an owner.
10:13 So, before you are aware, a group is there working, and if it doesn't come to your notice, how do you flash them out?
10:21 That is it.
10:22 I was thinking that with the four mining companies in the area, it could help reduce the illegal mining,
10:31 because the mining companies will obviously be employing the people.
10:34 Thank you.
10:35 The mining companies, yes, when they come, we normally sign employment agreements with them.
10:41 But some of them also claim that our people are not skilled enough for certain jobs, which is true.
10:50 And you know that in some cases, we demand that about 60% to 80% of the basic jobs are done by our people.
10:59 But where, for example, you can't get anybody who can operate a machine, a new machine, which is about $3 million.
11:06 Certainly, you cannot force a company to engage somebody from the community.
11:12 To address this situation, I have been able to establish contact with UMAT, University of…
11:21 Mines and Technology.
11:22 Mines and Technology, Takwa, to establish a study center.
11:27 Okay.
11:28 That, during towards establishing a university.
11:31 Oh, okay.
11:32 Because they haven't got accreditation for the degree courses, they have started giving skill training to people in the area.
11:38 Okay.
11:39 So, that is my hope.
11:40 They have started the first group, which was admitted, they are about 44.
11:46 It is my hope that going forward, we will get their skills in the area so that they can get employment.
11:54 It does not so mean that they have not engaged some of our people.
11:57 They have, but we would have wished that as many of them as possible.
12:01 But the limitation is that, of course, if you cannot operate a machine, why do they employ you?
12:09 For how long has this skills training center been in existence?
12:12 Oh, no, no. Just about three months ago.
12:15 Oh, okay.
12:16 Yes.
12:17 Okay.
12:18 So, that's a way of giving skills to your people so that they can be employed by the mining companies.
12:23 Yes.
12:24 So, now what they are doing is that they are doing drilling, giving them training in drilling, HFC, HSE, and what, welding and fabrication, stuff like that.
12:36 It's about six or so programs.
12:38 But you know they have about 12 programs.
12:40 Okay.
12:41 And aside of that, when you finish, then they promote some of them to do diploma, which will also lead to a degree.
12:49 Okay.
12:50 So, that in the next year or two, they will have acquired the accreditation for their degree and other courses.
12:56 I have also spoken with the mining companies, the four of them, and they have also agreed in principle
13:01 so that these students can, from time to time, be sent to them for practical training.
13:08 Okay.
13:09 Okay.
13:10 They have sophisticated machines that they use to train people.
13:12 Okay.
13:13 Well, that's interesting.
13:15 It's really a good move.
13:16 Thank you.
13:17 How many people are employed by way of dealing with illegal mining?
13:21 Because you expect that…
13:23 Once they get employed in the main mining sector, they will stop the gallantcy.
13:29 Okay.
13:30 If it doesn't stop…
13:31 Well, well, well, I wouldn't even ask where the strong who reduces drastic…
13:36 [Laughter]
13:37 We all want this.
13:38 [Laughter]
13:43 Do you know how many people in total the four companies are employing?
13:48 It's huge.
13:49 It's huge.
13:50 It's huge.
13:52 Because Chiranui alone is a very big one.
13:54 Chiranui alone, Bienie alone.
13:56 In the morning, when you see the number of buses dropping staff, there are many.
14:03 Some are doing exploration, some are doing the real mining, some are administration, and so on and so forth.
14:10 Okay.
14:11 What is the impact of the mining on the Bienie economy itself?
14:17 It used to be good.
14:19 It used to be good, especially when AGBL was there.
14:23 And again, even when Resolute took over and never operated a mine,
14:29 they were also keeping maintenance here and there, helping the community,
14:36 the municipal assembly, giving scholarships here and there, helping us to build our schools.
14:42 But unfortunately, the new company now, which is called the Asante Group,
14:51 when Resolute could not operate, because we later on heard that Resolute had acquired a mine in Mali or something,
14:58 which was probably more prosperous than the Bienie one.
15:02 So they were dragging their feet.
15:04 So myself and a few people started a drive to attract the Chinese,
15:10 and they brought a very good social agreement to us affecting education, sanitation, water, fuel.
15:20 Along the line, then this Asante Group also came in.
15:24 This Asante Group is basically a Guinean company.
15:27 So we all bought into it, even though we felt the Chinese could do better.
15:32 We also wanted to encourage our own Guinean.
15:36 And we thought if he was successful, then other Guineans too would learn from him.
15:41 But so far, we are not impressed at all.
15:45 With Asante Gold?
15:46 With Asante Gold at all. At all. We are not impressed.
15:51 One, we did a public hearing about 18 months ago.
15:57 And so they were to divert certain rules between Bienie and Goso.
16:04 What we have observed is that now they keep on changing.
16:09 And once you change, we have EPA. EPA must be informed.
16:14 The community must also be engaged to tell us why you want to now move from the first project to B or C.
16:25 They don't do that.
16:27 The other point is that they were to relocate or resettle the old town in Zongo people.
16:34 And I have given them 500 acres of land.
16:38 Of what they are to pay, what do we call it, customary drinks.
16:43 And I have not collected a dime from them, even though I have slotted a ship for libation
16:50 and done everything and given the land to them.
16:52 As I have for the customary drinks, they can come any time.
16:57 But as I tell you, they have not done much on the land.
17:03 And by EPA regulation, they should never mine less than 500 metres to a settlement.
17:11 But as we speak, they are about 50.
17:14 And in a particular case, where there is Zongo Old Town School, JHS and primary school,
17:22 they are 30 metres.
17:25 And they do blasting and stones fall into the school.
17:29 And so sometimes they inform the school that blasting will be done.
17:33 So what do they do? They close down the school.
17:37 I have been there myself, went to school around 10.30 and the school was closed.
17:43 And when I inquired, I was told that they told them they will be doing blasting.
17:48 So quickly I called the municipal director of education,
17:54 and she confirmed that the head teacher called to say that they were going to do blasting.
17:58 He was afraid it might affect any of their children.
18:01 So they have been doing it from time to time, which is also against the rules.
18:06 Again, you ask about its impact on the economy.
18:10 Even though they have given jobs to local contractors, they are all to pre-finance.
18:17 People are going in for loans, doing jobs, and they don't give them anything.
18:22 My understanding of pre-finance is that when you start to do it up to a certain level,
18:27 you are giving some money. That is why no.
18:30 So now they approach their bankers and nobody wants to listen to them.
18:36 So the resettlement has not done it, and they still want to do the mining.
18:41 And because of this, I and some of my chiefs went to the mining company,
18:49 meet the management at Bibiani on 25th of August.
18:55 And I wanted to find out why they were not doing the resettlement
18:58 and why they were also breaking all the rules here and there.
19:04 After that, I think they sent a message to Accra, that's the head office.
19:08 So I got a message that Malik, who is the CEO, and Mr. Atekuma,
19:16 who is the vice president, and others will be visiting.
19:19 They came on the 26th of August.
19:22 So when they came, Malik just ignored us.
19:27 Not us. Why? Because as soon as they came, we sat down.
19:30 I demanded that we visited the site first before discussions.
19:35 Because I knew they had come there to persuade me or to convince me to assess certain things.
19:40 And the basis of my argument was that the mining was close to the resettlement.
19:48 So I just wanted to... We went there, he didn't come.
19:51 So, of course...
19:53 He came to your palace first?
19:55 He came to my house, directly opposite the mine, Bibiani.
19:58 Okay, so, and then you said you should move to the site.
20:00 Yes.
20:01 But when you moved, he didn't come?
20:02 He didn't come.
20:03 And it was other Atekuma and others, we expected him to come back.
20:08 And we thought he would even give us a call.
20:10 He never joined us before.
20:12 And what we heard was that he's gone back to Kumasi to pick his flight back to Accra.
20:17 And after now, not even a call to me to tell me that he was sorry,
20:23 maybe something prevented him from doing something.
20:26 Okay.
20:28 And this is Asante Gould?
20:29 This is Asante Gould.
20:30 The Ganyan you thought you wanted to help.
20:33 Yes.
20:34 At the expense of the Chinese.
20:36 Yes.
20:37 And he's the one disrespecting.
20:38 Yes.
20:39 Okay.
20:40 Aside of this, they are not paying their contractors.
20:44 PW started with about 70 plus trucks.
20:48 Now they are operating with just about six.
20:51 Why?
20:52 Because they owe them a lot.
20:55 They are not paying.
20:56 And what is the effect is that they have asked some of the workers to go home.
21:01 So these are some of the upheavals.
21:04 Aside of that, PW, we also have people who are doing drilling for the company.
21:14 And they have all stopped because they are also not getting paid.
21:19 And if a mining company stops doing drilling, then how do you go ahead?
21:24 Aside of that, my information from my people is that some roads are blocked,
21:32 stones fly into farms, and the farms themselves, no compensation is being paid.
21:39 Only a few people have been paid compensation.
21:41 In most cases, even the evaluation has not been done.
21:45 Wow.
21:46 So apart from that, we also go to the resettlement.
21:49 People were there, so sit down with them.
21:53 Evaluate their property and pay them.
21:55 They have done some of them, but they are not paying them.
21:59 So I don't see the economic impact that it has,
22:05 or rather the arcade industries in the area.
22:10 PW, for example, has threatened to lay off some of its workers.
22:16 PW is a contractor of this company?
22:18 Contracted to do the mining for them.
22:20 PW.
22:21 Okay.
22:22 For them.
22:23 And indeed, if care is not taken, and the way Malik or the CEO is handling the business,
22:30 is not taken, he will leave people with debts.
22:35 Aside of this, I also know that Ghana government has money through MIF.
22:42 Yeah.
22:44 Mineral income investment fund.
22:46 Investment fund.
22:47 There.
22:48 They have also gone to Bank of Ghana for loan.
22:51 So if all these things are not checked, and the way he is running the business...
22:55 Oh, so what you mean is that MIF has invested into gold.
22:58 Yes.
22:59 Okay.
23:00 Because Ghana government also wants to encourage indigenous businesses.
23:04 They have also invested there.
23:07 And any time you want to deal with anybody, they will tell you where,
23:11 we will see the CEO.
23:13 And nothing comes from the CEO.
23:16 But the only time I got him was when he came to me and snubbed me.
23:21 And right now, I believe he's out of the country.
23:23 That is not even important.
23:25 What is important is that every two weeks, they come for the gold.
23:30 So what do they use the money for?
23:33 They are not paying statutory fees.
23:36 Really?
23:37 Like royalties are not paid.
23:41 Even concession rent are now outstanding.
23:45 This is illegal.
23:47 But concession rent and royalties are supposed to be paid to who?
23:50 No, to...
23:52 The minerals commission, is it?
23:53 Minerals commission, administrators of the two lands.
23:55 All royalties are paid to GRA.
23:58 And then GRA will do the disbursement, what will go to the consulate,
24:01 what will go to the...
24:03 What comes from the NANOM will go to the administrators of the two lands.
24:06 That's about 10%.
24:07 And out of the 10%, they take 1% and share the 9%
24:11 between the municipal assembly and the...
24:14 The schools.
24:15 The schools.
24:17 For one year, eight months, they are not paying.
24:21 Aside of this, workers' provident fund are also in arrears.
24:26 Eh?
24:27 Yes.
24:29 Workers' provident fund are also in arrears.
24:32 And these are all illegalities.
24:36 And I don't know.
24:37 As I sit here, I even suspect that they are not even paying
24:41 in cantos on the salaries that they are paying.
24:45 That's my feeling.
24:46 Nobody has told me.
24:47 Because if they are not paying provident fund, they are not paying royalties,
24:50 they are not paying this, that, that, that, that, that, that.
24:52 And certainly...
24:53 And they don't care.
24:54 He doesn't care because he thinks he has government's money in the business.
24:59 That's my thinking.
25:00 Okay.
25:02 And if care is not taken, so this statement I am making,
25:06 I am pleading to government, to all people concerned,
25:10 that they should go to BBNE, intervene, and find out what is happening there.
25:16 Otherwise the business will collapse.
25:18 And when it collapses, what happens?
25:20 You will live and then live debt for the local people.
25:27 Imagine that you are a supplier and they owe you $500,000.
25:32 That's a lot of money.
25:33 That's a lot of money.
25:35 If I took a loan from a bank,
25:39 what is the guarantee that a new company can pay you?
25:43 Do we know if a new company will even take over immediately?
25:48 So these are some of the issues.
25:50 Go back to the impact.
25:52 Yes, Awaso is also employing.
25:55 But let's stay with this a little.
25:57 Because someone would ask, "What evidence do you have?"
26:01 For the royalties, I mean you are evidence yourself.
26:05 You are not receiving it.
26:07 But when it comes to the statutory payment on the salaries of your workers?
26:13 Some workers also go to find out.
26:16 Some workers also have a way of finding out if they are paying what I am referring to.
26:21 And if it is not paid, you can always find out whether your employers are paying or not.
26:27 Yes, so that's why I go to my...
26:29 If they have not resettled the people,
26:32 and they are mining 30 metres to a school,
26:36 that is against the regulation.
26:38 What is the Minerals Commission doing?
26:40 Because the Minerals Commission is supposed to ensure that the right things are done.
26:43 That is under the EPA.
26:45 The EPA, I know, has engaged them, spoken to them.
26:50 And the EPA has called for a meeting on Thursday between me and them.
26:55 This coming Thursday?
26:56 This coming Thursday.
26:57 So, currently, some of my chiefs and myself, we are going to meet with them.
27:01 And I believe they are going to take action.
27:04 Because if they don't take action, they will also be part of the problem.
27:10 But I believe they wouldn't want to be part of the problem.
27:14 Aside of this, because of the blast zone,
27:19 you know we have air pollution and noise pollution.
27:24 And I visited, went to the hospital, invited the hospital group,
27:28 invited what is happening.
27:30 And they admit that upper respiratory diseases are going up.
27:37 In the area?
27:38 In the area.
27:39 The records are there to show.
27:42 And so we all attribute it to BB&E.
27:46 And why, and it is especially when the people come, they ask them about their localities.
27:51 Okay.
27:52 And those who are mainly come from Zongo and the old town.
27:59 Where the Asante Gorge is.
28:01 Sure.
28:02 And they are taking its mining activities.
28:03 Exactly.
28:04 So these are the problems we are facing.
28:08 You see, my concern is that in an establishment like this,
28:12 you could deal with the people at the mine.
28:15 But when you go, you won't get any information.
28:19 All they say is that we will relate to the CEO in Accra.
28:26 And nothing happens.
28:27 And you want to engage the CEO, you don't get him.
28:30 If you are lucky to meet him, he will sit down with you two minutes,
28:33 he will pick his call and say, "Oh, I have a call, I'll get back to you."
28:36 And that will be the end of it.
28:38 Wow.
28:39 So we want government, EPA, Minerals Commission, to be up and doing.
28:47 If the guy and his group cannot do the mining,
28:52 they should find, what do you call it, people who can,
28:56 we can leave them around for people to come and take over.
29:00 Because their share price is also dropping.
29:02 It used to be 2.2, it's now about 1.3.
29:06 This is not good news for the local economy.
29:10 We are trying to get local people to take into, you know,
29:14 large scale gold exploration.
29:17 And if this is going to fail, it won't inspire other people to also take it up then.
29:21 Precisely.
29:23 Interesting.
29:26 I wanted to go to Awaso.
29:28 Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about Awaso.
29:31 Awaso, also the Chinese were there, they left, but Ghanaian has taken over.
29:36 Oh, Ghanaian.
29:37 Ghanaian.
29:38 Okay.
29:39 What they are doing is that they continue to do the oilage.
29:42 And my last discussion with them, they have the bigger picture of going to aluminum production.
29:49 But they want to settle first before they go there.
29:53 Is Opon Masu in the area?
29:56 Where?
29:57 Opon Masu.
29:58 No, no. It's in Wasamimfi.
30:00 Then we come to Chirano.
30:03 Chirano also doing very, very well.
30:06 But this guy went and bought Chirano.
30:08 Which guy?
30:09 Malik.
30:11 The Asante.
30:12 Asante.
30:13 Oh, he's going to buy Chirano.
30:15 He bought it.
30:16 Okay.
30:17 And to buy Chirano.
30:18 And now Chirano is under Asante.
30:23 The problems we are facing in BBNE, these problems are also cropping up at Chirano.
30:31 Oh.
30:32 And finally, the insult of it, Malik has companies which take scrap away from BBNE.
30:42 Scrap is waste.
30:45 Waste generated in the kitchen is waste.
30:49 Waste in our toilets is waste.
30:53 But because this one has value, it takes it away.
30:57 Which means if the scrap didn't have value, they also leave them over there.
31:01 But over there in my area, scraps are not taken by the company.
31:07 It's for the community.
31:09 And the community gets used and some selected companies.
31:11 And that is what we use to help the community.
31:13 For example, Chirano, when it was under King Ross, we used the sales from this thing to buy computers, to support schools.
31:22 And we have supported BBNE Hospital, Yorkshire Hospital, bought a lab for some of the schools by this guy.
31:30 So he's taking away everything.
31:34 He's not giving the community some.
31:36 So, please, if care is not taken, there will be confrontation.
31:42 Really?
31:43 Oh, sure. Sure.
31:46 If after our meeting with UPA in Accra here, nothing good comes out of it, there will be a lot of, what do you call it, confrontation.
31:56 But that's his decision to take, whether he would give the scraps to you or not.
32:01 We are talking about the totality of the whole thing.
32:03 As for the scrap, we can handle that.
32:05 We may even go and stop.
32:07 And BBNE Mine started in 1925.
32:10 Some of the scraps we want to take away, we put them at a British company.
32:15 You have now come and instead of working, paying people to work, to develop the mine,
32:21 you are interested in scrap, which has been accumulated there.
32:27 What value has he added to the scrap?
32:30 Nothing.
32:32 So that is a problem we are going through.
32:36 Have you, I mean, relayed this information to the ministry responsible?
32:45 Yes, I have.
32:47 What have they done?
32:49 I'm still looking at it.
32:51 Since there has not been any improvement, I believe that they haven't done anything.
32:57 I'm still pressing.
32:59 I have.
33:01 The last meeting I'm going to have will be with UPA.
33:06 They are doing very well.
33:08 You tell them to take action.
33:10 But this time around, my demand will be to stop operations and complete the resettlement.
33:19 Okay.
33:20 Yes, before they continue.
33:22 That's your demand?
33:23 Yes, because we want Sudan for our people to die.
33:28 They have all these problems.
33:30 Now you have diverted their roads.
33:33 Of course, in some areas you give them buses, but in new areas you have not given them buses
33:39 to take them to their farms.
33:41 I'm concerned more about the health, the health issues, and then the effect that it is having
33:47 on Zongo, Old Town, JHS, and the primary school.
33:51 I'm very much concerned.
33:55 And this is not the first place where mining is going on.
33:59 TACWA, when there was the need to do it, they did a resettlement first.
34:04 Amancia resettlement, all other places.
34:08 And the EPA public hearing, it was there.
34:11 We all agreed that they should be the resettlement first.
34:17 I'm asking them, yes, we have a very big concession.
34:21 If you think you are not ready, then move it far away to the other part of the concession.
34:27 To work.
34:29 Which will not directly impact on the health of the people.
34:35 So mining is really important in your locality.
34:40 Very, very.
34:42 I don't know when, in the olden days, people were so big,
34:46 by what they were doing, they were sinking holes.
34:50 Yes, yes.
34:52 So it didn't impact negatively.
34:54 And most of the time, when people were hard-pressed, and they were going to do this thing,
34:59 after cleaning the area, they would go back to their farming and other activities.
35:04 But at this time, mining is very, very important.
35:08 And these are the four big mines in my area.
35:12 And two of them are being run by Ghanaians.
35:15 But it's messing up.
35:19 Anyway.
35:21 Once you are the president of the House of Chiefs, let's talk about chieftaincy as well.
35:26 Okay.
35:28 How troubling is the whole chieftaincy institution in Ghana?
35:33 Well, the Minister for National Security says that about 65 to 70 percent of all security issues
35:43 are centered around chieftaincy.
35:47 He may be right.
35:49 Why?
35:50 Because our society is centered around chieftaincy.
35:54 If you want to look at governance properly, it's all about the chiefs.
35:58 Every village, a chief is there.
36:02 He may be right, but then one may ask, why do we have so many chieftaincy problems?
36:09 The National House of Chiefs and others are not well-resourced to handle chieftaincy issues.
36:16 Really.
36:17 Yes.
36:18 Look, the National House of Chiefs is treated as if we are secondary school students.
36:27 So when they want to send money, it's per head.
36:30 Before we organize meetings, they know that we are 80 in the National House of Chiefs.
36:35 Other regions, they know the number, so they send money according to our number.
36:40 If I tell you, as president of the National House of Chiefs, my sitting allowance is 300 Ghana cities.
36:47 My hotel accommodation is 300 Ghana cities.
36:52 So ask about the other members, what amount they are giving.
36:57 Give me 300 Ghana cities when a chief also doesn't travel alone.
37:01 I have a driver and maybe a servant or something.
37:06 So I have to look for a hotel for them, feed them.
37:09 That is one.
37:10 The other one is that we need funds to handle the judicial cases.
37:16 Courts are sitting every day, isn't it?
37:18 Yes.
37:19 We have about five judicial committees, and they are prepared to work throughout the year.
37:29 But the vote is so small, so when it is exhausted, they all come to the last.
37:33 That is one.
37:34 Two, as I speak right now, some of the regions don't have council.
37:41 And councils must be recruited by government and posted to the various regional houses of chiefs.
37:50 My own region, Western North, we don't have one.
37:53 Oh, you don't have a lawyer for the house.
37:56 Two, Northeast, they don't have one, and others.
37:59 The National House of Chiefs is an appellate body where all cases go on appeal.
38:05 We have only one lawyer.
38:07 And we have made several requests to the Senate at a certain point when I took over.
38:14 I even requested that we are giving laptops so that some of our meetings,
38:19 because there are certain allowances, 300 or so,
38:22 why don't we sit in the comfort of our palaces and have the discussion?
38:28 Then the National House of Chiefs, when we meet as a group,
38:33 instead of one day, we proceed for two days.
38:37 And I started this more than four years ago.
38:40 It hasn't worked. It hasn't worked.
38:43 So yes.
38:45 But the other aspect, too, is that what personally I've observed is that
38:49 Ghanaians always quarrel about competition.
38:57 So it is not only about chiefs and--
38:59 look at what has happened at the political scene.
39:04 MPP, NDC, anything about competition, there is always fracas.
39:11 So we need to examine ourselves.
39:14 We don't want to accept defeat graciously.
39:20 So yes, I know there are a number of chief tenancy issues,
39:23 but we had the--what do you call it?
39:27 The funding, the resources.
39:29 Who disposed of them in no time?
39:34 Is it just about funding or about some entrenched positions
39:39 that some of the chiefs do take?
39:42 Entrenched positions like what?
39:44 I mean, sometimes feuding parties have come to the Judiciary Committee.
39:49 You know that if there could be compromises,
39:51 a lot of the challenges would have been solved.
39:53 But they are not willing to.
39:55 We have ADR.
39:57 But ADR, the groups must subject themselves to the ADR.
40:00 If they don't, you don't go into arbitration.
40:04 Right?
40:05 They have to submit themselves to the arbitration.
40:08 And they must understand that once the ruling is given, that will be final.
40:12 We have been doing it, but I would have wished that we could do
40:15 a hundred more of these cases under the ADR.
40:18 So, yes, as for the panel members, they are always ready to work.
40:22 They don't take entrenched positions.
40:24 Yeah, they don't take.
40:26 I'm not even looking at the panel.
40:28 I'm looking at the--for example, if myself and my family, we have an issue,
40:33 we are disputing over who is the rightful owner.
40:39 Yeah, if you take entrenched positions, that's why we have the Judiciary Committee there.
40:42 They will handle the case.
40:44 If you wouldn't subject yourself to arbitration, we'll handle the case.
40:47 Once you have the resources, some of them, they sit about two or three times,
40:51 and the case is disposed of.
40:53 So, going forward, just in about a minute, what do you think should be done
40:58 so that all of these challenges--I mean, Western region, too many issues.
41:02 You go to all the places throughout Ghana, there are several issues.
41:06 What must be done in a minute?
41:08 In a minute, what must be done is that we should keep on educating our chiefs,
41:14 educating our people, what we have been doing.
41:16 Sometimes we invite resource persons to address them.
41:19 Secondly, resources might be made available to the national house of chiefs.
41:24 The courts always have the resources to work.
41:27 And when you go to court one and you are not satisfied, you go to the next one,
41:32 and finally you go to the Supreme Court.
41:34 And we have the same thing.
41:35 When it is at a traditional council, you are not satisfied,
41:38 you go to the regional house of chiefs and then to national house of chiefs,
41:41 and if possible, even to the Supreme Court.
41:44 So, yeah, if you get the resources, everything will be all right.
41:47 Okay. Thank you so much, Anna, for coming.
41:49 My pleasure. Thank you for giving me this opportunity.
41:51 Odjia Hohoya Ojebe II is the president of the national house of chiefs
41:57 and is also the paramount chief at Ariasu, a traditional area.
42:02 Well, that has been it, the extended version of the AM show.
42:06 Thank you for being a part of us.
42:08 (dramatic music)
42:11 you