Ghosting in Ayungin | Politics as Usual
Join our chief correspondent and anchor Pia Hontiveros on #PoliticsAsUsual — your weekly political appointment fix.
In the wake of China's provocative actions against the country's vessels in the West Philippine Sea, the Philippines gets military assistance from long-time time ally, the United States, particularly in the conduct of resupply missions to the BRP Sierra Madre in the Ayungin Shoal
While a senator questions the coast guard's capabilities to perform its role in maritime law enforcement, the Defense chief admits a capability upgrade is necessary to reduce the country's dependence on foreign states.
Visit our website for more #NewsYouCanTrust: https://www.cnnphilippines.com/
Follow our social media pages:
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CNNPhilippines
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cnnphilippines/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines
In the wake of China's provocative actions against the country's vessels in the West Philippine Sea, the Philippines gets military assistance from long-time time ally, the United States, particularly in the conduct of resupply missions to the BRP Sierra Madre in the Ayungin Shoal
While a senator questions the coast guard's capabilities to perform its role in maritime law enforcement, the Defense chief admits a capability upgrade is necessary to reduce the country's dependence on foreign states.
Visit our website for more #NewsYouCanTrust: https://www.cnnphilippines.com/
Follow our social media pages:
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CNNPhilippines
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cnnphilippines/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 In the wake of China's provocative actions against the country's vessels in the West
00:08 Philippine Sea, the Philippines gets military assistance from longtime ally the United States,
00:14 particularly in the conduct of resupply missions to the BRP Sierra Madre that's grounded on
00:20 the Ionian Shoal.
00:21 While a senator questions the Coast Guard's capabilities to perform its role in maritime
00:26 law enforcement, the defense chief admits a capability upgrade is necessary to reduce
00:32 the country's dependence on foreign states.
00:36 Good evening, I'm Yont Veros.
00:53 Welcome to your weekly Political Appointment Fix, Politics As Usual.
00:57 Our guest for tonight, the commander of the Armed Forces of the Philippines Western Command,
01:03 Vice Admiral Alberto Carlos.
01:06 Good evening, Admiral Carlos.
01:07 Thank you very much for being with us tonight.
01:08 Good evening, Pia.
01:09 Honored and privileged to be here.
01:11 We'll be privileged to have you here, sir.
01:14 Can you tell us first, as WESCOM commander, and please use the nautical chart on the table,
01:21 we will be using it throughout the show.
01:24 Tell us what is your area of responsibility.
01:26 As the Western Command commander, my area of operations covers the entire province of
01:31 Palawan and all the waters in the West Philippine Sea, in the Calayan Island Group, and our
01:39 exclusive economic zone in the western part of Palawan.
01:43 Maybe we can ask the camera to zoom out a bit so we can see.
01:47 So this is the province of Palawan and all the waters west of it, including the Calayan
01:54 Island Group.
01:55 Where's the Calayan Island Group?
01:56 The Calayan Island Group is right here.
01:59 And our EEZ is right up here.
02:02 Exclusive economic zone.
02:03 This is 200 nautical miles.
02:04 This is 200 nautical miles from our baseline.
02:07 Okay.
02:08 Baseline.
02:09 Our baseline is this, right?
02:10 Baseline is this one, 12 miles territorial sea, and then another 12 miles for contiguous
02:15 zone.
02:16 And from the contiguous zone, you extend it to another 200 nautical miles.
02:20 Where's the 9-10 dash line?
02:23 It's here.
02:24 It's here.
02:25 Okay.
02:26 All right.
02:27 We'll go back to Admiral Carlos.
02:28 So, and not only in Ayungin Shoal, and we're going to show it again, Ayungin Shoal has
02:38 -- Yeah.
02:39 All right.
02:40 That's Ayungin Shoal, and we have all these miniature model ships on this, what we call
02:47 a nautical chart.
02:48 Hindi po ito mapa, right, sir?
02:49 It's a nautical chart.
02:50 This is not a map.
02:51 A nautical chart.
02:52 Because this is what -- Here we show the maritime features, correct, sir?
02:56 Correct.
02:57 Okay.
02:58 And of course, we have all these little, what we call the miniature model ships.
03:01 These are what you use in the Navy.
03:03 But we'll go back to that in just a bit, when you use that when you plan your missions.
03:08 But sir, can you point out to us, saan po yung may mga outposts ng Philippines dito
03:14 sa buong area?
03:16 The Philippines now occupies nine, total of nine features.
03:20 The biggest is Calean Island, Pagasa Island, or Candito.
03:26 We have Kota, Lawak, Likas, Panata, Patag, Risaldrief, Ayungin.
03:34 Likas and Patag, yeah.
03:37 I have mentioned that already.
03:38 About nine features.
03:39 Nine features.
03:40 We call them features because hindi lang siya shoal or --
03:43 Hindi lang siya shoal.
03:44 Some of them are islands.
03:45 Some of them are reefs.
03:46 Okay.
03:47 So we call it features.
03:48 Okay.
03:49 And for Ayungin Shoal, for example, like we said, ito yung BRP Sierra Madre natin.
03:55 So ito yung model ship.
03:57 I'm sorry, that's the one?
03:59 Philippine flag.
04:00 With a Philippine flag.
04:01 All right.
04:02 Dapat makita yung Philippine flag.
04:04 Okay.
04:05 So in the other features, what kind of outposts do we have?
04:11 We have -- in Pagasa, we have several buildings and facilities there.
04:19 We also have the airstrip.
04:22 But in the other islands, mostly barracks lang.
04:26 Barracks because some of them are sandbars during low tide.
04:30 Wala na kalutang except yung barracks lang ng mga tropa.
04:33 Okay.
04:34 On stilts?
04:35 On stilts, yes.
04:36 Okay.
04:37 All right.
04:38 So, sir, pag-usapan po natin itong nangyari nung Friday, nagkaroon ng RORE or re-rotation
04:45 and resupply mission to the BRP Sierra Madre, which is grounded in the Ayungin Shoal.
04:52 Can you first tell us, kayo na po mag-position ang mga ships, and there are already flags
04:58 on these ships to show what they are.
05:00 So the BRP Sierra Madre --
05:01 Sierra Madre's right here.
05:02 Okay.
05:03 Sa Ayungin Shoal.
05:04 Can you point to it, sir, para makita?
05:05 Ayungin Shoal is right here.
05:06 Here.
05:07 All right.
05:08 Okay.
05:09 So BRP Sierra Madre.
05:10 Of course, hindi ganyang kaganda ang Sierra Madre kasi medyo kinakalawang na.
05:14 Okay.
05:15 That was grounded all the way back in 1999.
05:17 1999.
05:18 And then on Friday, what happened?
05:19 So we have Coast Guard vessels and Philippine vessels approaching the area.
05:24 Yeah.
05:25 The resupply -- the two resupply boats came from Ulugan Bay right here about in Puerto
05:33 Princesa.
05:34 Okay, here.
05:35 And the two Coast Guard vessels came from Buliluyan in southern part of Palawan, and
05:42 they all link up in Sabina Shoal.
05:44 Sabina Shoal.
05:45 So let's move them to Sabina Shoal.
05:46 They all link up in Sabina Shoal before proceeding in formation to Ayungin.
05:53 What do you mean by formation?
05:54 What did it look like?
05:58 It looks like this.
05:59 So the two resupply vessels, the small one, and on both sides, they have the Philippine
06:06 Coast Guards protecting, providing security to our resupply boats.
06:12 There were naval vessels, right?
06:13 Philippine Navy vessels?
06:14 Parang shadowing lang yung Coast Guard.
06:17 The Philippine Navy vessels were conducting their own patrols in their respective sectors
06:22 during this resupply mission.
06:25 Okay.
06:26 So nag-hire -- which is the usual case.
06:28 So you hire private vessels.
06:30 Why?
06:31 Well, first is the hydrographic consideration because Ayungin Shoal is very shallow.
06:38 So yung draft ng barko is very critical so they can enter the shoal and come alongside
06:45 57 and transfer the supply.
06:49 So dapat ang mangyari, itong dalawang small private vessels, like you said, come alongside.
06:55 Come alongside.
06:56 So they enter, usually enter the northeast entrance of the shoal and then they will
07:02 proceed to alongside LS-57.
07:06 When you say shallow, how shallow is the shoal?
07:08 The entrance is about 10 feet.
07:11 The entrance 10 feet?
07:12 10 feet.
07:13 10 feet deep?
07:14 Deep.
07:15 Parang swimming pool pala.
07:17 That's why we have to use low draft vessels and during the planning, many, many years
07:23 ago when they decided to use this, the strategy was to civilianize and demilitarize the resupply
07:32 mission.
07:33 In addition, we have to take into consideration the draft, the hydrographic data.
07:41 And they came up with the use of the resupply boats, which we are still using up to now.
07:47 And civilianize and demilitarize, meaning you use the Coast Guard vessels, which are
07:51 non-military and therefore white ships, not gray ships.
07:56 Gray ships are the Navy ships.
07:57 That's correct, Pia.
07:59 In our country, the Coast Guard is civilian in nature.
08:03 We use the, we ask the Coast Guard to support and to provide security to our resupply vessels.
08:11 So let's refer back to the nautical chart and we'll show that on camera.
08:14 So again, for the viewers, para makita nila.
08:18 So this is the BRP Sierra Madre.
08:21 These are the two resupply vessels that are hired private and the two Coast Guard vessels
08:28 escorting them.
08:30 So what happened on Friday?
08:32 Merong lumapit na mga, merong nang nakaabang na mga Chinese vessels, right?
08:38 They usually meet us in Sabina.
08:40 They forward deployed their Chinese, the Coast Guard vessel, as well as their militia vessels.
08:48 They forward deployed it to Sabina where they meet us, where they meet the convoy.
08:54 And they try to, they shadow it up to a certain point.
08:58 Bakit Sabina?
09:00 They want to prevent you to get, from getting-
09:02 Well, Sabina is also, they're starting to also establish their presence there.
09:08 Lately, we've been monitoring the swarming presence of Chinese fishing vessels in Sabina.
09:17 And that's where they now start their shadowing operations as far as the resupply mission
09:22 is concerned.
09:23 On August 5, so may water cannon, pero ngayon walang water cannon, pero meron paring git-gitan,
09:29 meron paring dangerous maneuvers na nangyari, may radio challenges parin.
09:33 That's correct.
09:34 So, it's the same, same actions from the Chinese.
09:42 The only difference from August 5 to August 22 is the water cannon.
09:47 But it's the same harassment, shadowing, dangerous maneuvers, trying to cut off the supply boats
09:56 from the Philippine Coast Guard vessel escort teams.
09:58 So how did that happen?
09:59 Can you demonstrate, sir, with these ships on the-
10:03 Well, while they were on the way, the Chinese Coast Guard usually tried to cut in between
10:10 the Philippine Coast Guard vessel and the Philippine resupply boats.
10:17 They usually tried to separate them.
10:20 Separate them, and then they will block the Philippine Coast Guard from proceeding any
10:24 further providing security to their resupply boats.
10:29 So ang gagawin ng Coast Guard, iiwas siya?
10:31 Well, magpapatintero, iiwas, up to a certain point that they are going- with the help of
10:37 the militia, the Chinese Coast Guard successfully boxed in the Philippine Coast Guard and it
10:43 could no longer proceed any further.
10:45 Okay.
10:46 Pero hindi lang po isa na Chinese vessel, right?
10:50 How many total?
10:51 And then can you bring the other ships?
10:53 For the last resupply mission, we monitored four Chinese Coast Guard vessel and 11-
11:00 Chinese militia vessels.
11:02 So they're all taking part of the harassment and the blocking operations of-
11:09 When you say 11 militia, these are naval- not naval.
11:14 These are- they said they are Chinese fishing vessels.
11:18 Fishing vessels.
11:19 Fishing vessels.
11:20 Pero actively participating?
11:21 Actively participating.
11:22 It looks like that they are taking orders from the Chinese Coast Guard, participating
11:27 in the blocking and the harassment of our supply vessels.
11:32 And yun.
11:33 Okay.
11:34 So, sir, ang nangyari last Friday yung RORE na nga, yung rotation and resupply mission.
11:41 And every time you do that, you always- and any mission for that matter, you do- and what
11:47 we're showing right now here on this table, here in Politics As Usual, you do what you
11:53 call the voyage planning, parang tabletop exercises.
11:56 So you use this nautical chart and you use these miniature model ships.
12:01 Is that correct, sir?
12:02 Yes, that is correct.
12:03 We do operational planning and pre-sale brief so that everybody knows kung ano kanilang
12:09 tasking in the operation.
12:11 Okay.
12:12 And then you monitor via radio and what's happening on the high seas?
12:17 Yes, we have electronic means to monitor the movements of the vessels.
12:23 We usually, once they go out, we usually battle stop positions.
12:31 Battle stop positions, meaning?
12:34 We are monitoring it already.
12:36 So you are prepared, in other words, for any eventuality?
12:39 Yeah, we always have a contingency plan.
12:41 Okay.
12:42 A contingency plan for any eventuality.
12:43 All right.
12:44 But the biggest eventuality is the water cannon incident.
12:49 Nothing more than that?
12:51 That's for the last, that's for the August 5, but there are a lot of other contingencies
12:57 that may happen during this resupply mission.
13:00 So for any contingency and eventuality, we are prepared to respond.
13:05 Okay.
13:06 And like you said earlier, itong voyage planning, tabletop exercise, using this nautical chart
13:11 and these miniature model ships, we have to say thank you to the Philippine Fleet because
13:15 they provided this for us tonight.
13:18 But you do use this for other missions also that the Navy undertakes, right?
13:22 Yeah, for all the, for the other Rory missions in the other islands, we also use this for
13:31 the conduct of our regular maritime patrol by the Navy.
13:35 We also use this nautical chart.
13:39 Admiral Carlos, Vice Admiral, I should promote you now.
13:43 Admiral Carlos, we're going to take a very quick break.
13:46 We'll be right back.
13:49 Stay tuned.
13:58 Welcome back.
13:59 This is Politics As Usual still with us, the commander of the AFP Western Command and also
14:05 Naval Forces West, correct sir?
14:07 Ay, hindi.
14:08 Western.
14:09 Western person, just a Westcom.
14:10 Okay, Westcom, Vice Admiral Alberto Carlos, but for purposes of brevity, Admiral Carlos,
14:15 let's promote him tonight.
14:16 And Admiral Carlos, of course, explaining many things to us using this nautical chart
14:22 and these miniature model ships that are used in actual for what they call voyage planning
14:29 for any mission that the Navy, including the Coast Guard, of course, goes on.
14:33 So Admiral, itong BRP Sierra Madre na nga na, that was grounded there in Ayungin Shoal,
14:39 it's in such a decrepit state.
14:41 Ang sabi nga daw e, dalawa daw ang kalaban.
14:44 Sabi nga ni retired Navy Admiral Romel Ong, Mother Nature and what is happening, you know,
14:54 tensions around the world and in this region.
14:57 What can we do about it?
14:58 The Sierra Madre, should we retrofit?
15:02 What can we do?
15:03 Or babayaan ng?
15:04 Well, of course, through the years, BRP Sierra Madre has gone through wear and tear and the
15:09 pictures will not lie.
15:12 But our concern now in WESCOM, given the directive of the President and our Commander-in-Chief
15:17 that we will stay there, our concern is to make sure that BRP Sierra Madre continues
15:23 to fly the Philippine flag there and also provide safe and secure accommodation for
15:30 our troops stationed there.
15:32 So there are a lot of things on the table on how to do that and I cannot discuss the
15:37 operational details of that.
15:39 But the directive, the marching orders of the President is very clear.
15:43 We will stay there.
15:45 And so our effort is now to ensure that the Philippine flag continues to fly from that
15:54 platform.
15:55 So, again, like you said, your efforts are to ensure that the Philippine flag continues
15:59 to fly from the BRP Sierra Madre and therefore you never, ever heard in all your years with
16:05 the Navy, in all your years with the Armed Forces of any promise, any vow made by any
16:09 Philippine official to Chinese authorities that we will remove the Sierra Madre from
16:14 there.
16:15 I'm not aware of any promise made and if there's one, the President has already rescinded it.
16:21 In other words, forget it.
16:24 If there was such a thing.
16:26 >> This proposal or idea, joint patrols, joint drills with other countries like the United
16:35 States, the United Kingdom, and we have ready flags here, but not enough ships here.
16:41 Ready flags.
16:42 US, UK, Australia, et cetera.
16:45 In both, for example, Miss Chief Reef, Second Thomas Shoal, is that advisable?
16:51 Will that help us in our goal?
16:54 Is it going to help us stake our claim even more or is it going to worsen things?
17:00 What?
17:01 >> Well, we welcome the statement of support from our allies and these countries are like-minded
17:08 nations to us.
17:09 We would like to establish a rules-based international order in the West Philippine Sea.
17:13 So any help that you offer to us to pursue that objective, I think for me as a West Com
17:22 commander, it's a welcome development for me.
17:25 My concern as a West Com commander is to be able to have the proper tools, enough platforms
17:32 to be able to execute whatever operations that I have in my area.
17:36 If the joint patrols and the other countries will offer additional tools for me to be able
17:44 to do my job and at the same time, at the end of the day, we'll be able to establish
17:49 a rules-based international order.
17:51 So at my level, I would welcome that activity.
17:57 >> Well right now we're showing video of that American plane that was flying during the
18:01 RORE late last week.
18:05 Was that a prearranged thing between West Com and the armed forces and the U.S. armed
18:12 forces or was this a surprise for you as well?
18:15 >> Well, we are sharing information, regularly sharing information with the U.S. Navy and
18:21 this is an exercise of freedom of navigation and overflight.
18:26 There's nothing wrong with that.
18:27 It's all consistent with the international law.
18:31 And as part of the information sharing, the video footage provided by that aircraft was
18:38 very, very useful in giving a very good visual of the danger, the challenges and the struggle
18:46 of our patriots while doing the resupply mission.
18:49 >> The danger, Admiral, like we used the term earlier, dangerous maneuvers, if a few inches
18:58 went wrong, there could have been a serious accident.
19:00 >> Yes, as you could show by the video, the Philippine Coast Guard captain has the presence
19:06 of mind to stop his engine while the Chinese Coast Guard vessel was cutting across the
19:14 bow.
19:15 So that's a very dangerous maneuver and also the distance, a very, very close distance
19:20 already.
19:21 >> What was their plan?
19:22 Did they really want to cause an accident or were they trying to scare off our vessels
19:26 or what?
19:27 >> Scare off, block and not proceed anymore towards Ayungin.
19:32 And that's their objective, is not to allow the Philippine Coast Guard to go near Ayungin
19:39 Shoal.
19:40 >> Admiral, this is what you were talking about earlier, joint patrols, joint drills.
19:43 What about a joint forward base?
19:46 Can we do that?
19:48 Is that allowed under our constitution or will we have a tough time defending it from
19:53 criticism?
19:54 Because, of course, they will say that we have already removed the bases.
19:57 What we have is the VFA, the Visiting Forces Agreement, EDCA.
20:00 Can we have a joint forward base in the area to help us take our claim?
20:08 >> All I know is about the EDCA site in Balabac.
20:11 The forward base in KIG is something that we haven't talked about.
20:17 I'm not aware of any effort to establish a forward base in KIG.
20:22 >> KIG, Calayan Island Group.
20:25 >> But we do have an EDCA site in Balabac, in southern Palawan.
20:30 >> Where is Balabac, sir?
20:31 >> This is Balabac.
20:32 I think this is Balabac.
20:33 >> Okay.
20:34 >> It's in the choke point.
20:35 So that's a very strategic area for us.
20:38 So that's one of the EDCA sites that the Americans can also use for whatever.
20:47 >> Okay.
20:48 All right.
20:49 Sir, I was asking, where is 9-9 and you said it's here, very, very near.
20:55 Actually inside already our EEC.
20:57 >> We do not have.
20:58 Yeah, that's for sure.
21:01 Inside our EEC but the specific technical description because when the Chinese drew
21:06 the 9-9, there's no technical description.
21:10 Looks like some arbitrary drawing on the map.
21:11 >> Okay.
21:12 And we're going to go to a break.
21:13 But my question before the break is now that they've released a 10-9 map, does that in
21:17 any way affect our naval operations or it doesn't matter to you?
21:21 >> It doesn't matter.
21:22 >> All right.
21:23 We'll take a very quick break.
21:24 Our guest here in the studio, Vice Admiral Alberto Carlos, WESCOM commander.
21:28 We'll be right back.
21:38 Welcome back.
21:39 This is "Politics As Usual."
21:40 Vice Admiral Alberto Carlos, WESCOM commander, is our guest.
21:43 Admiral, this new standard map, is it going to help you do your job better?
21:49 >> Yes.
21:50 It will now, from what I heard, it will now use Philippine names over the future so less
21:56 confusion because some of our maps still has foreign names.
22:02 I heard this new map will now carry all Filipino names for all our features in the West Philippine
22:07 Sea so in terms of less confusion.
22:09 >> You were consulted for this?
22:13 >> We worked with the LGU, KALAYAAN, in the naming and also in the maps.
22:19 >> Admiral, speaking of China, its premier warned during ASEAN in Jakarta, he warned
22:25 other nations, "not to take sides to avoid a cold war."
22:29 What is going on in the West Philippine Sea?
22:31 Is it just tension or is it a cold war?
22:34 >> I think it's just tension.
22:36 I think it's something that we can address peacefully and resolve the issues but it's
22:42 not just a military alone solution.
22:45 It has to be a whole nation approach.
22:47 We're doing that aside from the usual dialogue and diplomacy.
22:52 It's not a cold war yet.
22:55 It's something we can resolve peacefully.
22:58 >> The United States turned over two ships which were renamed the BRP Valentin Diaz and
23:04 the BRP Ladislao Diwa.
23:07 These ships can help you in your mission in the Navy's and the West Com's mission?
23:14 >> The vessels are, I'm familiar with the vessels, the Cyclone class.
23:17 They are small.
23:19 It's more for literal area.
23:22 >> When you say literal meaning?
23:24 >> About 12.
23:25 >> Near to the shore?
23:26 >> Near to the shore.
23:27 Coastal patrol.
23:28 These are small vessels.
23:29 >> Like the PNP Maritime Group?
23:33 >> The PNP Maritime Group is smaller.
23:38 This is bigger.
23:39 The Cyclone class is bigger with a rib at the back.
23:43 But for WPS, West Philippine Sea Operation, that's quite small.
23:50 >> Admiral Carlos, your final words will be an answer to this question.
23:54 My question has to do with modernization.
23:57 For a nation to be respected by the world and to respect itself, we need to have a credible
24:02 defense posture.
24:03 I hear this year in and year out.
24:04 Horizon 1, Horizon 2, Horizon 3, modernization program of the armed forces.
24:11 Credible defense posture with what you call a modern and capable air force as our first
24:16 line of defense.
24:17 Second line of defense is the Navy.
24:20 And then third line and final line is the Army.
24:24 Ground forces.
24:25 Why is this so important to us?
24:28 This so-called no self-respecting nation would not have a credible defense posture.
24:37 Our operation in the West Philippine Sea and for the AAP in general, it takes more than
24:44 just grit and military resolve.
24:47 It has to be backed up with the military strength.
24:51 So for the Western Command, we already have a force mix drawn up to ensure that we cover
24:58 the entire area and to address any contingency in the West Philippine Sea.
25:03 It's all part of the modernization program including the Philippine Air Force and the
25:09 Philippine Navy modernization.
25:11 So our force mix is already there, it's already on the list.
25:14 Otherwise, without that, we cannot effectively cover, effectively patrol and protect and
25:22 defend our sovereignty and sovereignty rights in the West Philippine Sea.
25:26 And that is very important.
25:28 It's very important for us to be able to project a credible defense posture in the West Philippine
25:35 Sea.
25:36 Vice Admiral Alberto Carlos, the commander of the AFP, Armed Forces Western Command,
25:42 covering as we see on the nautical chart, Palawan and this entire area.
25:47 Sir, maraming salamat po.
25:50 Thank you very much for being with us tonight.
25:52 It's an honor to be here.
25:53 Thank you, sir.
25:54 And thank you, of course, to the Philippine fleet for this nautical chart and the miniature
25:57 model ships.
25:58 We've been told before, don't talk politics at the dinner table or at a family reunion
26:03 or in vibrant groups and risk warfare, digital or otherwise.
26:08 But we can talk about it here at this table on this show, your weekly political appointment
26:13 fix politics as usual.
26:14 I'm Pia Ontuveros.
26:15 See you back here next Wednesday, 8 p.m.
26:17 for the Daily Watch.
26:18 Thank you.
26:18 [MUSIC PLAYING]