In this edition of our talk show Brussels, my love, we pick apart the EU Commission president's State of the Union speech and discuss a European Parliament report that calls prostitution a form of abuse and not a job.
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00:00 [Music]
00:12 Hello there and welcome to "Brussels, je t'aime",
00:15 Euronews' weekly talk show about European news.
00:18 On Brussels, my love, we break down some of the stories of the week.
00:23 Here, what's at stake for you and of course for the continent.
00:26 I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us for this special edition
00:30 from the European Parliament here in Strasbourg.
00:32 Coming up this week, new figures from Brussels show the European economy is sluggish
00:37 and inflation is here to stay for now.
00:40 On that backdrop, the European Commission President delivered her fourth
00:43 and final State of the Union speech on Wednesday.
00:47 Modelled on the US President's annual centre stage moment,
00:50 time is running out for Ursula von der Leyen to deliver on all she promised
00:54 before European Parliament elections next June.
00:57 We break down her performance.
00:59 And after two years of talks, MEPs voted on a report this week
01:04 urging EU member states to decriminalise prostitutes
01:07 while criminalising buyers.
01:09 The UN, the OECD and the European Women's Lobby
01:12 cheer this move and say prostitution is a form of gender-based violence.
01:17 But some sex workers' rights groups worry about the consequences
01:21 of this Nordic model-based approach.
01:23 We'll take a closer look with our panel this week.
01:26 Francis Fitzgerald, the Irish MEP from the European People's Party.
01:30 Welcome.
01:31 Pedro March, the Portuguese MEP from the Socialists.
01:34 Welcome.
01:35 And last but not least, Malin Bjork,
01:37 Swedish Member of the European Parliament from the left.
01:40 How are you all doing?
01:41 How was your week here in Strasbourg?
01:43 Busiest ever, Maeve.
01:45 I can just imagine.
01:46 Very intense, of course.
01:47 Very intensive.
01:48 Well, I'm very curious to hear what you made of the one hour
01:51 State of the Union speech delivered back on Wednesday.
01:54 But first, a little bit of context perhaps for our viewers.
01:57 It's that time of year again.
02:02 The State of the European Union.
02:05 The Commission President's annual speech that lays out
02:07 what it intends to do for the coming year.
02:10 It's fair to say that Ursula von der Leyen
02:13 has had a lot of crises to deal with.
02:15 From addressing Brexit, the Covid-19 pandemic,
02:18 the EU's huge green agenda, and of course,
02:21 the fallout from the war in Ukraine.
02:23 This year is different, though.
02:27 With EU elections rapidly approaching in June 2024,
02:30 the Commission President's term is nearly over.
02:33 Demonstrating her achievements is a bigger priority than ever.
02:36 And the main question over her future
02:38 as European Commission President still remains.
02:40 Christopher Pitcher is reporting for us there.
02:43 So what did you think of the speech?
02:46 Frances Fitzgerald, we'll start with you.
02:48 Did it keep your attention for the whole hour?
02:50 It did, actually.
02:51 But I'm a fan.
02:52 I think she's done a terrific job as President of the Commission.
02:56 It was the big picture today.
02:58 You know, it was about enlargement.
03:00 It was about the huge challenges up ahead.
03:03 She kind of put it, you know,
03:05 we've got to react to the history that's there at the moment,
03:08 like they did when the EU was founded.
03:10 And deal with these big challenges.
03:12 And I think the Parliament is well capable of taking them on.
03:15 Whether it's AI, the energy crisis, the war in Ukraine,
03:18 enlargement, helping small businesses,
03:21 dealing with the outstanding issues in gender equality.
03:24 She touched on all of them and had quite a few initiatives
03:27 that she announced in each of those.
03:29 OK, Frances Fitzgerald, very clearly a fan there of Ursula von der Leyen,
03:32 of course, from the same political group.
03:34 What about over at the left in your political group?
03:37 Were you cheering her on or were you a little bit more sceptical?
03:39 I think we were a little bit more sceptical.
03:42 And I think, you know, she stayed in this kind of European EU bubble.
03:50 And it's more about what she didn't say also.
03:53 You know, she didn't address the fact that people are,
03:56 you know, in working poverty.
03:58 She didn't address the cost of living.
04:00 And it feels like she has resigned in front of the threat
04:05 to democracy and rule of law because she didn't say a word about that.
04:10 And I think that's it's a little bit disconnected from reality,
04:13 then, of people that are suffering, you know,
04:15 attacks on their fundamental rights, women, LGBTI people, migrants,
04:20 and also the issue of cost of living, where, you know, we need to see some action.
04:28 And if you detach yourself from that and just speak on this EU bubbles level,
04:34 I think we we're not on the right track.
04:37 So it's more about what was not in there.
04:39 OK, what about yourself, Pedro Marques?
04:41 Who was she speaking to in that speech?
04:42 And do you agree with Malin Bjork there that she's detached from reality?
04:46 Maybe, maybe I would bridge in a sense these two statements,
04:50 because I do think the speech was significant throughout all of it.
04:55 Of the speech, there were significant positions on key aspects and proposals.
04:59 And the mandate was significant.
05:02 I mean, this is in a few years from now,
05:05 we'll be remembering that in this mandate, we got COVID.
05:08 We got the war in Ukraine and we got all the Green Deal through.
05:12 So there was a lot going on and the minimum salaries
05:15 and and the conditionality on the rule of law.
05:17 So we delivered as Europe.
05:19 But at the same time, I have to fully agree that there was a huge
05:24 absence in this speech, which was people's lives, real daily lives.
05:29 I mean, the cost of living is huge, even for families that are working.
05:34 I mean, in the past, we were associating unemployment and poverty.
05:38 At this moment, we have huge risk of poverty,
05:41 even for even for employed families, particularly single parent families, etc.
05:46 So the risk of exclusion is there.
05:49 It's cost of energy.
05:51 It's the cost of the of the sheer basket.
05:53 I'm just going to stop you there.
05:54 I'd like to give our viewers a taste of that speech,
05:56 because I'm sure they weren't tuning in on Wednesday morning for that full hour,
05:59 even though we had it live here on Euronews.
06:01 And let's just take a listen now to the lady of the moment this week.
06:04 In the European Parliament in Strasbourg,
06:06 the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
06:08 We now have now have a European Green Deal as a centerpiece of our economy
06:15 and unmatched in ambition.
06:16 We have set the path for digital transition to become global pioneers in online rights.
06:23 There you go, the Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
06:27 Now, I said earlier that that was her last State of the Union speech,
06:30 because, of course, it was her last of this term.
06:32 Yes, we have elections coming up next year, next June.
06:36 The question on everyone's lips here is, though, will we see her back next year?
06:40 And what are you hearing here in the corridors of the Parliament?
06:43 Well, as you know, there's lots of rumors about whether she'll go to NATO.
06:46 Will she stay on here?
06:48 I mean, I do believe that because of the way she's led the commission,
06:52 if, for example, it is an EPP president next term,
06:55 I think she'll get a lot of support from heads of government, actually.
06:59 So I think it's quite possible she will be back.
07:02 But the truth is, nobody knows.
07:04 And does she want to go back?
07:05 Because I actually asked her earlier this week.
07:06 I had the opportunity to have a very brief interview with her,
07:09 but she was very tight-lipped and she just said to me,
07:11 the future of the EU will be good, but nothing about her.
07:15 I guess you never know.
07:16 I mean, look at the last time she sort of came out as a surprise candidate.
07:20 Indeed, you're laughing away there.
07:22 What would you like to add?
07:23 No, I mean, we were, I mean, there when she came up.
07:26 So this will go to the last moment, I would say.
07:31 But let me maybe say that it's probably not about the person.
07:34 I mean, of course, she did.
07:36 Let me be blunt.
07:37 She did a good mandate.
07:38 She delivered with her team.
07:41 And I think that's very important.
07:43 She delivered, as I said.
07:44 By the way, in that speech that she delivered on 90% of the political guidelines.
07:47 I would argue that this commission delivered, as I said,
07:50 on the mutualization of debt to respond to the crisis, on the vaccines,
07:54 now on the response to the war in Ukraine, on the minimum salaries, on the Green Deal.
07:59 I mean, the commission delivered.
08:00 But the Green Deal is not delivered.
08:02 Sorry.
08:03 But we have approved the bulk of legislation and now it is to be acted upon.
08:11 But the point is that it was a team and it were policies that we defined at the beginning of the
08:16 mandate that have been delivered.
08:18 So, of course, we are always looking for the person.
08:21 But I mean, it's the policies and that we manage.
08:24 Malin, I'd like to bring you in because you were disagreeing with the fact that when Francis
08:28 Fitzgerald said that the Green Deal was well on its way,
08:30 bearing in mind as well that France Timmermans has left the building and the commissioner who
08:34 was in charge, of course, of that.
08:35 Yeah, now she's picking in somebody that she takes directly from Shell company,
08:40 fossil fuel company.
08:41 So, you know, I think we have to deliver on social justice and the green transition.
08:47 And today she spoke nothing of social justice,
08:50 nothing on the issues of cost of living, as we briefly touched upon.
08:55 She spoke about the green transition, but only in the context of industry.
09:01 But the green transition concerns people and it has to be a just transition.
09:06 She had no solutions, no proposals there.
09:09 And in that sense, the EU is not delivering.
09:12 And if we are going to make this green transition, it has to be just and it has to deliver for
09:16 people, not some kind of luxury vision for a certain segment of the people or only concern
09:22 industry.
09:23 So I think here the Europe is failing.
09:25 And I think, you know, we should continue.
09:27 I would like to see more left leaning candidate, somebody that focus on a just transition,
09:32 a green and just so green and red transition, social justice, women's equality, LGBT,
09:38 I write and also a fair and more.
09:41 Let's be clear.
09:42 The reality is that if you want to raise people's living standards to cope with inflation,
09:48 one of the best ways of doing that is by Europe remaining competitive and creating more jobs.
09:54 She is certainly putting the policies in place to create those jobs.
09:58 And she also has been clearly responsible for reducing energy prices, even though it
10:04 remains an ongoing issue.
10:05 She did the deal on that.
10:08 She's also a lot of initiatives in there about making it easier for small businesses to survive
10:15 in Europe.
10:16 Again, you do that.
10:17 That's raising people's standards.
10:19 We've also had just transition reports.
10:21 I did one myself.
10:22 Can I can I very briefly?
10:25 Yeah, very briefly.
10:25 This is the point in which probably we have a disagreement, but also with yourself on
10:30 the line.
10:31 We in Europe years ago, decades ago, we realized that globalization needed a European social
10:37 model model to be for globalization to also bring cohesion.
10:40 When we created internal market, we created cohesion policies in the European Social Fund.
10:45 And this dimension, the social dimension of the European project, that's the part that
10:49 was absent.
10:50 Of course, we can create jobs.
10:52 We should remain competitive, but we are near to full employment at this stage.
10:56 And still there are millions suffering at this stage with the cost of living.
10:59 And for those, there was no answer.
11:01 That's the problem.
11:02 I'd like to bring in some more points of view, because, of course, this speech was
11:05 delivered here in Strasbourg, but it was also watched very closely over in Brussels, which
11:09 is, of course, the home of thousands of lobbyists, NGOs and think tanks.
11:13 And with that in mind, I touch base with the European Policy Centre's Garvin Walsh and
11:17 Georg Rikilis to hear their message to the commission president.
11:20 Take a listen.
11:20 This is no time for complacency because the EU has done an amazing amount of stuff dealing
11:26 with Covid, dealing with Russia's aggression against Ukraine.
11:28 But these problems are incredibly serious.
11:30 There could be a Trump victory in the United States next year.
11:33 Then Europe might have to front up against the Russians on its own.
11:38 Europe is falling in the crack between the US and China with the Inflation Reduction
11:42 Act and those kind of things.
11:43 So there's a whole new agenda that the commission has just embarked on, which is that of economic
11:48 security.
11:49 And what we see is that the US and China have the capacity for large scale resource mobilisation
11:55 for these fundamental shifts we're going through, the green, the digital and the economic
12:00 security transition.
12:01 I think really this is Europe's predicament right now.
12:04 One needs to muster these resources for strategic investments or the European Union, Europe
12:11 will wither.
12:12 Or the European Union will wither there.
12:14 Georg Riekel is speaking to me a little bit earlier this week.
12:17 I mean, what's your reaction to that?
12:20 Was that speech perhaps too complacent?
12:22 I mean, there was a lot of bragging in there.
12:23 Yes, I think it was too much of self celebration and not much enough of forward looking, except
12:30 when it came to some more general geopolitical statements.
12:34 So once again, you know, if we are building a Europe, we have to build a Europe of people,
12:40 not of big enterprises or of industry.
12:42 And I think this is a big, big challenge for all of us.
12:45 We're going to elections next year.
12:46 I'm not speaking to industry when I'm, you know, we're speaking to voters that go and
12:52 they make the connection, of course, my jobs, you know, what creates jobs, etc.
12:56 But, you know, the way that she embraces industry interest is just very far from how people
13:04 live their realities.
13:05 I mean, I can't agree with you on that.
13:08 I mean, of course, you have to embrace industry.
13:12 I mean, we keep talking about keeping Europe competitive, making Europe stronger from a
13:18 geopolitical point of view.
13:19 Are you seriously saying that by, you know, having some sort of a voice against industry?
13:24 No, not against industry.
13:26 But if you don't speak to people's lives as well.
13:28 She spoke about women's lives today, one of the key issues that we're all working on,
13:32 violence against women.
13:33 Yes, we work together.
13:34 Dealing with that.
13:36 So, I mean, I do think that you've underestimated her understanding of the needs of individual
13:41 people.
13:42 I think it's very addressed the EPP because EPP group is not on board for the green transition
13:47 anymore.
13:48 So she needs to go and get you.
13:50 And then she spoke about industry.
13:51 But I say she needs to go and get people for the green transition.
13:54 That's it.
13:55 Was she speaking today to her EPP group, her European political?
13:58 I think she was speaking to a very wide audience today.
14:00 All you have to do is listen and look through that speech.
14:04 Europe is in quite a precarious position at the moment, even from an economic point of
14:08 view.
14:09 She highlighted everything we need to do to strengthen the geopolitical position of Europe
14:15 and the jobs and economy.
14:17 Economy is about people.
14:19 If you don't strengthen the economy, you don't have the money for the social issues.
14:23 I'm all in favor of doing more socially, by the way.
14:26 And I thought her health initiative and Cancer for All was really important part of that
14:30 social initiative.
14:31 Pedro Marques, just switching gears, if you like, on the electric cars there as well,
14:35 she had a strong message for China.
14:37 Could we see Europe in a car war, perhaps now with Wissa?
14:41 Well, again, agreeing with Francis on this, I think the economic dimension of the speech
14:46 was strong.
14:47 What I like indeed is the social buffer that was not there.
14:50 But the economic front, the economic part of the speech was good.
14:54 And also this geostrategic approach, in a sense.
14:59 I mean, we are probably start stop being naive in terms of our economic position in the world
15:05 and even in terms of the geopolitical situation.
15:07 For decades, we built our project on this basis that if we would be closer as European
15:15 countries, we would not fight anymore.
15:17 And then we started doing the same around us.
15:19 We started creating these economic links with Russia through gas and all.
15:23 And we thought, OK, this would be enough for no more wars.
15:25 But then finally, it's not the case.
15:27 So we are stopping now this naiveness and we are facing reality, right?
15:32 We have clashes with other parts of the world.
15:34 And at the same time, there was an important word, which is this idea of new partnerships
15:38 with Africa, with Latin America, because we also have to talk to the ones that are like
15:43 minded with us.
15:43 And we heard her say this alone in this new new year, new era of regional power.
15:48 And we heard her say, of course, this week that Africa should be treated in the same
15:52 way that Ukraine was treated.
15:53 But I want to come back to Francis Fitzgerald, what you said earlier about the SMEs.
15:57 Yes, because, of course, it's 23000 SMEs.
16:00 They're the so-called backbone of the economy here in the European Union.
16:03 The majority are over in Italy.
16:05 And we actually caught up with Ben Butters.
16:07 He's the CEO of Euroshop, who had also a message for us to underline this week.
16:11 Take a listen.
16:12 Do better for businesses and do better for Europe, I guess, would be our message.
16:17 And as a key part of that, they need to think small first.
16:20 They need to think about smaller businesses in particular.
16:23 Individually, they may not be relevant, but cumulatively, they're massively important
16:27 to the economy.
16:27 So we need an EU that is small business friendly.
16:30 So businesses need help.
16:32 They need support.
16:33 And we are looking to the European Commission and the co-legislators to provide that support
16:39 until the end of this mandate.
16:40 Ben Butters there from the Euroshop.
16:42 Now, we did hear as well Ursula von der Leyen saying that she would appoint an envoy who
16:46 would work on these issues, making it simpler to do business.
16:50 I mean, is that something that you would welcome that you heard from her?
16:53 Was it too little too late in your eyes?
16:54 Well, I think, you know, also from the left side, especially my Swiss left party, we work
17:00 a lot on, you know, green industry, actually.
17:02 Although, you know, but when we work on small and medium sized enterprises, but if facilitating
17:10 the life of SMEs means like lowering standards for workers' rights, for the working environment,
17:15 protection against hazardous substances, etc, then of course, that's not the way forward.
17:20 And it's in more in general, we should be competing with, you know, good standards for
17:26 workers, good environmental standards.
17:28 And we should put, you know, that and make that standards in Europe so that we can also
17:33 influence globally.
17:35 And that's the kind of model we have to work.
17:38 But also say, of course, competitive, as we heard, we're running out of time.
17:41 But I also want to hear your thoughts on EU enlargement.
17:44 That was, of course, a big chunk of that speech we heard earlier, there was a very strong
17:48 quote from Ursula von der Leyen from the Commission President saying the future of Ukraine is
17:53 in our union, the future of the Western Balkans is in our union, and the future of Moldova
17:58 is in our union.
17:59 Just briefly, I'd like to hear from you all.
18:00 What's your take on that?
18:01 Is this a realistic promise?
18:03 Can is this something that you'd like to see happen?
18:05 And can the EU as well afford this enlargement?
18:07 Yes, I of course, that's what I want to see.
18:09 We have to bring our friends ever closer to us.
18:12 And, you know, she was very clear on that.
18:14 And she also announced an examination of all of the, if you like, competing challenges
18:20 there will be as we get bigger.
18:22 And she made the point that every time there's been an enlargement, some people have said
18:26 this isn't going to work.
18:28 And she said, and yet we've made it work.
18:30 And I agree with that.
18:31 And that reforms would be needed as well.
18:33 The same now with this next enlargement.
18:35 Are your voters in favor of enlargement, do you think?
18:38 Our political family has been striving for the progress of the enlargement regarding
18:43 the Western Balkans.
18:44 And now we have this situation with Ukraine.
18:47 I mean, they are literally paying with their blood the aspiration of the European dream.
18:51 So, of course, we have to give them a European path.
18:54 And this was correct.
18:55 This idea that enlargement will be put forward.
18:58 At the same time, she said clearly we need to do our homework.
19:02 It will not be simple to host all these countries, but we have to reform ourselves to be able
19:07 to host all those that really want to live the European dream.
19:11 And talk as well of them carrying out rule of law reports in these member states as well.
19:15 Briefly, your take on this.
19:16 I think enlargement is a good thing.
19:19 But I think we also have to be very clear that we need to respect within the European
19:24 Union and including in those that want to become members, the rule of law and democracy
19:29 and human rights and that we have a better foundation.
19:32 I was very worried that Ursula didn't address this.
19:35 It's going to have to stop you there, Malin Bjorg, we're out of time.
19:37 But thank you so much for your insights.
19:40 Stay with us, though, because after this short break, we'll be hearing about a new report
19:45 all about prostitution being called a form of gender based violence.
19:48 How it caught people's attention here in Strasbourg this week.
19:50 Stay with us.
19:51 Welcome back to Brussels, my love with me, Maeve McMahon.
20:02 We're coming to you this week from Strasbourg, where MEPs gathered to vote on, among other
20:07 things, a report to harmonize rules on prostitution throughout the European Union.
20:11 As it stands, prostitution is legal in many EU countries like the Netherlands, Germany,
20:16 Greece and Hungary, and was actually decriminalized in Belgium last year.
20:20 But this report that doesn't carry any legislative power, by the way,
20:23 hopes to pave the way for change.
20:26 To find out more about the contents of this, I asked European women's lobby Alexia Fafara.
20:31 This initiative report is very important because it recognized that prostitution is a form
20:36 of violence and that we need to adopt the so-called equality model, which allows to
20:42 create support programs and exit programs for survivors of prostitution.
20:46 90% of persons in prostitution are women and girls.
20:50 So it's really a form of violence against women and girls.
20:53 The best way to tackle this form of violence and to end demand, which is the cause,
20:58 the main origin of the problem, we need to adopt this equality model, which means
21:04 criminalizing sex buyers, but decriminalizing persons in prostitution.
21:08 European women's lobby there.
21:11 Pedro, I'd like to start with you on this, because, of course, men need to be around the table.
21:16 We didn't see a lot of men the other day in that press conference on that topic.
21:19 How did you vote in that report on Thursday?
21:21 I'm all in favor for this position.
21:24 I think that, indeed, this is a blatant exploration of women.
21:28 It's indeed, as it was referred, violence against women.
21:32 And I like this model.
21:34 I think we should try this model in a wider manner in Europe, because this idea that we
21:39 should protect these women and create all the conditions for them to exit prostitution
21:44 and at the same time prosecute, go after the ones that demand, but particularly also after
21:50 those that organize these forms of prostitution and profit from it and even traffic women.
21:55 Let us remind that so many of these women, a huge percentage of these women, are migrant women.
22:00 They are being explored.
22:01 They are being brought to Europe to be explored sexually.
22:04 And this is totally unacceptable.
22:06 So I think this is a model.
22:08 This is the way to go through.
22:09 80%, I believe, are migrant women, according to the reports I was looking at.
22:12 What about you, Frances Fitzgerald, in your political group?
22:15 How did people vote?
22:16 Because I know it was a very divisive issue.
22:17 Yeah, well, there are different views.
22:20 But, you know, it's a really strong report by Marie Neuchatl, Christine Schneider,
22:23 Malin, others have all been involved in it.
22:26 And it does say we should move towards the Nordic model, which is criminalizing
22:30 the purchase of sexual services.
22:32 I mean, I never ceased to be surprised that so many countries legislate for prostitution,
22:39 because when you look at the facts, it is exploitation of women.
22:43 It's the last one of the last forms of misogyny, as far as I'm concerned.
22:47 It's sexual exploitation of the most vulnerable women and really unacceptable in this day and age.
22:54 And yet you get rationalizations around it.
22:56 It's criminal activity.
22:58 So many of the women are incredibly vulnerable.
23:01 So this report is about helping women to exit prostitution, being aware of the huge amount
23:07 of violence that they suffer.
23:09 And so many of them, you know, are in these brothels, hidden away from view, you know,
23:16 legal in certain countries.
23:17 So hard for the police to intervene and save them or help them.
23:21 So, I mean, that's the approach I would take that, you know, we really have to move away
23:26 from the legalization of prostitution in different countries.
23:29 You have been working on this report.
23:31 As I said earlier, it's two years in the making.
23:33 And how will this change the lives, do you think, for people involved in the industry?
23:38 Well, I think, you know, I'm from Sweden and we were the first country in the world that,
23:42 you know, put the responsibility where it belongs.
23:45 That is with the buyers and the abusers and the pimps and criminalizing them.
23:50 And at the same time, as was said here, decriminalizing and depenalizing the people and mostly that
23:56 women and girls in prostitution.
23:58 And I think that is a big change.
23:59 You know, you depenalize and you decriminalize those that are abused.
24:04 But you do put the responsibility somewhere also on the pimps and on the buyers or the
24:09 johns, as they're called.
24:10 And and this changes the whole, you know, it changes for the people, of course, in prostitution,
24:16 because, as Francis said, they will have a right to to justice.
24:19 They will have rights to support for exit programs.
24:22 And at the same time, we also say to young boys and men that this is not a way to treat
24:29 women.
24:30 In Germany, eight of 10 men have abused and bought women in prostitution.
24:35 In Sweden, the similar figure is one out of 10.
24:39 And that's, you know, like that.
24:40 Sorry, can you just repeat that statistic and tell me where what's that based on?
24:45 Yeah, it's studies that have been done, you know, interviews of certain, you know, sample
24:51 it's called probably in English, which shows that, you know, very many eight out of 10
24:56 men approximately in Germany have bought a woman in prostitution and only one out of
25:01 10 in Sweden.
25:03 And, you know, what does that make of masculinity when you buy so-called consent?
25:09 You cannot buy consent.
25:11 So it affects all of us, how we think about sexuality and not least how boys I have.
25:16 I educate the boy.
25:18 I want him to know that you cannot you cannot buy consent.
25:22 And when you mentioned Germany, I mean, free in your debate has gained a lot of traction
25:26 in Germany with one Bavarian said, a politician calling her country the brothel of Europe
25:31 and saying that Germany was famous for its sex and tourism.
25:35 So it's gaining traction, at least that report.
25:37 It's becoming one of the capitals of sex tourism.
25:39 Yeah, but this week as well, we did see Francis Fitzgerald in the European Parliament, a number
25:44 of former prostitutes now turned activists, and they were calling for this report to be
25:48 given the momentum that they wanted to be given, like the activist and author Amelia
25:52 Tiganos.
25:53 She comes from Romania originally and was sold to a Spanish pimp for 300 euros and forced
25:59 into prostitution at over 40 brothels in Spain.
26:01 I spoke to her.
26:02 What is at stake is the suffering and destruction of many, many thousands, hundreds of thousands
26:10 of women's and girls lives.
26:12 And above all, what is at stake is the dignity of Europe, because I believe that we have
26:17 to be a reflection of a model of progress and advances.
26:20 And above all, I believe what is at stake is a model of equality, a model of equality
26:26 and respect and good treatment between women and men, which is what you really aspire to.
26:31 Amelia Tiganos there speaking to me a little bit earlier.
26:36 She was joined by herself and all the other co-authors of that report.
26:39 It's worth mentioning to our viewers and pointing out that not everyone supports this
26:43 report.
26:43 In fact, Amnesty International and a lot of groups, sex workers rights groups, they're
26:48 against this report.
26:49 You can take a little, you know, a few minority persons to to to say that it will be safer
26:58 and and more organized if we had recognized this, you know, as a form of work.
27:05 But the reality is the other way around.
27:07 There will be more people, more women, you know, enormous amount of women abused in prostitution.
27:14 And when you turn pimps into just normal businessmen, you legitimize the whole, you know, the whole
27:22 process of abuse.
27:23 The violence increases, not decreases.
27:26 Fascinating discussion that we will return to very soon here on Brussels.
27:29 My love, thank you so much to our guests for your analysis and for being with us here.
27:33 And thank you so much for watching.
27:35 We'll see you soon here on Euronews and of course, over on Euronews.com.
27:39 Hello there.
27:48 Welcome back to Brussels.
27:49 My love, Euronews' weekly talk show.
27:51 I'm Maeve McMahon.
27:53 Now, remember this story that went viral a few weeks ago and dominated the coverage of
27:57 the FIFA Women's World Cup.
27:59 Luis Rubiales, the president of the Spanish Football Federation, kissing the player Jenny
28:04 Hermosa on the lips.
28:05 Well, this week, not only did Luis Rubiales resign, his downfall and the consequences
28:10 were debated right here in the European Parliament in Strasbourg.
28:14 So the end of a saga, perhaps, but the start of a serious conversation here on the European
28:19 stage, perhaps.
28:20 Your reaction to that debate the other day here in the Parliament?
28:22 Well, you know, I watched the whole tournament.
28:25 I love women's football.
28:26 I used to play, but a long time ago.
28:29 And when, you know, the Spanish team beat Sweden to and eliminated us, they were the
28:35 best players.
28:36 They were the best team.
28:37 And up they go to take their medals.
28:40 And comes a macho man to kind of diminish them.
28:43 He acted in an exalting way towards Jennifer Hermosa.
28:48 But also the other players were, you know, groped and treated in a way that was completely,
28:53 it was painful to watch.
28:55 And I think this is the reaction by so many also that so many women can recognize that
29:01 this is a me too of Spanish football, but it also touches on so many of us.
29:07 And what change will it bring about on European level?
29:09 Like, why was this conversation had here in the European Parliament, Pedro?
29:12 Totally.
29:13 I mean, this was totally regrettable.
29:15 Unfortunately, there had been a very positive coverage of the soccer World Cup, Women's
29:22 Soccer World Cup.
29:23 So there was a lot being done for equality with all the tournament, with all the buzz
29:28 around it.
29:28 And unfortunately, it spoiled the moment.
29:31 It ruined that moment.
29:31 But at the same time, I really hope that this coming to an end with the correct decision
29:36 in the end, even if pushed by others.
29:38 I really hope that some lessons come.
29:41 Indeed, as you just said, this idea that this could be a me too in another area in which
29:46 this was sheer violence in a sense as well, because it was not just a kiss by a random
29:51 man to random moment, which, by the way, you don't go around just kissing any random woman.
29:56 You don't do that just by chance.
29:57 But this man had power on that woman.
30:01 That power was being used in a sense.
30:03 And that's totally regrettable.
30:04 Let's hear your view.
30:05 What I would say is if this is what happens in public, what happens in private?
30:10 I mean, the impunity, the arrogance, extraordinary, and even some of the reactions at the time
30:16 trying to blame the woman.
30:17 I mean, how classic, how typical.
30:19 But I mean, the whole question of women in sports, I've worked on this for 30 years.
30:23 I mean, the visibility of women in sport is just beginning to come through media and elsewhere.
30:30 And there's fantastic changes.
30:32 But, you know, they still women, sports people still have to put up with an awful lot gaps
30:38 in terms of decision making in the in the bodies, the international bodies and so on.
30:43 You know, we've a lot of work to do still.
30:44 But this was a good debate here in this parliament.
30:46 And his resignation, giving hope, perhaps to women across the content.
30:51 Now, we spoke earlier about the European Commission president's speech, and she didn't
30:54 mention, of course, the infamous kiss in her speech or sexual harassment in sport.
30:58 But she did have a lot to say about women's rights issues and gender violence,
31:01 sounding almost like the gender equality minister that she once was back home.
31:05 Take a listen.
31:05 I know this house supports our proposal on combating violence against women.
31:13 And here, too, I would like that we cast into law another basic principle.
31:21 No means no.
31:23 There can be no true equality without freedom from violence.
31:29 No means no.
31:34 There the European Commission president making it very clear.
31:37 Will this translate into anything, you think?
31:40 Well, I think she refers also specifically to the work that is now going on with
31:44 Francis as one of the main negotiators on the new legislation against gender based violence.
31:49 So I really hope that that is coming through.
31:51 And I think here is she's much more in touch with reality and in touch with women.
31:56 No means no.
31:57 The reality at the moment is that the member states are effectively the vast majority of them
32:02 refusing to include rape in a directive on violence against women.
32:05 We'd like to change that.
32:06 We like what everything it's all in the hands, isn't it, of the EU member states over in the
32:09 capitals, and I'm afraid we're out of time.
32:11 Thank you so much, Francis Fitzgerald, Pedro Marquez and Madam Bjork for being with us here.
32:16 And thank you, of course, for watching.
32:18 Any comments for us on any of the stories that we've covered today or anything you'd like us
32:21 to dive into, do reach out.
32:23 Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com.
32:26 See you soon.