In this edition of Brussels, my love?, we break down the EU-CELAC summit that saw 60 leaders from the two continents gather in Brussels. The forum focused on trade, Ukraine and rejuvenating relations after an eight-year hiatus.
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00:00 Hello there and welcome to Bruxelles, je t'aime, Euronews' weekly talk show about European
00:17 politics. On Brussels, my love, we take a look at some of the stories making news across
00:23 the continent. Here what's at stake for you and for Europe. I'm Maeve McMahon. Thanks
00:28 for joining us. Coming up this week, after years of ignoring them and taking them a little
00:34 for granted, the EU fully embraced Latin America and the Caribbean this week, hosting dozens
00:39 of heads of state here in Brussels. The red carpet was rolled out and the Mammoth Summit
00:44 shone a light on trade and investment and mutually beneficial deals. The elephant in
00:49 the room, though, finding a common stance on the war in Ukraine and on comfy century
00:54 old recriminations over slavery. And 700 million euros, the cheque the EU has signed for Tunisia,
01:02 a hodgepodge of loans and aid. The money should help pull the country out of dire poverty,
01:07 but also help slow down irregular migration. The North African country has become a major
01:12 transit for migrants, refugees and asylum seekers, and the EU hopes this cash injection
01:17 will stop illegal crossings. NGOs are wary, though, about trusting an authoritarian regime.
01:24 Our guests this week, Mark Batenga, the Belgian MEP with the Left Group. You're welcome.
01:29 Thank you very much. Shada Islam, commentator and the founder of the New Horizons Project.
01:34 You're welcome. Thank you. And Michiel Hoekven, Dutch MEP with the European Conservatives
01:40 and Reformists. Thank you for having me. Great to see you all. Thank you so much for being
01:43 with us. And just before we hear your points of view, I just want to tell our viewers why
01:47 we heard so much Spanish spoken this week in the EU quarter. Ellie Liberté reports.
01:52 Handshakes all around this week in Brussels as the EU welcomed a number of Latin American
01:59 and Caribbean states. Around 60 leaders gathered in the EU capital for the third summit of
02:04 its kind after an eight year pause. The EU has turned away from ties with Russia due
02:10 to the war with Ukraine and competition with China is causing the EU to attempt to counterbalance
02:15 its influence. Now, the EU is trying to strengthen the relationship with CELAC in order to woo
02:21 these nations. The bloc needs to finalize and ratify some of the several trade agreements
02:26 on the table. The question is, after years of neglect, can the EU make up for lost time
02:32 or is it too late? Ellie Liberté reporting there. So that's the question for you all,
02:39 I suppose. Is it too late? We start with yourself, Mark Batenga. I don't know what you mean with
02:44 it. Too late. I don't really agree with the point of view that we've been neglecting Latin
02:48 America. I mean, the perspective has to be that we've been treating Latin America badly
02:53 with lack of respect. So if you've heard many of the Latin American leaders coming here
02:58 this week, last week, it was very much about we want a win win relationship. We want to
03:03 have respect. We want to be heard. Don't impose your rules upon us. You know, we have our
03:08 own democratic systems. You have been doing things to us that are not correct and we want
03:13 respect. And I think if Europe, the European Union is ready to really change perspective
03:18 to which Latin American with these governments, we can get somewhere. But that means, you
03:23 know, breaking away from a very paternalistic, very, you know, almost neo-colonial perspective.
03:30 If you heard Joseph Borrell, a couple of months ago, say, well, you know, we are the gardeners
03:35 that will go outside to the jungle. You know, if you speak to people that way, if you show
03:40 them that lack of respect, obviously, you know, these people are not going to respect
03:44 you in turn. I guess the question I did that summit make up for those mistakes that were
03:47 made. Well, I think it's good that we try to realign with Latin America, especially
03:52 if we'd like to counterbalance China. If we look at China, they have increased their trade
03:56 from 2002 from 18 billion with Latin America to now 450 billion dollar. So China is gaining
04:04 ground in Latin America and we should also gain ground. But what I think was a bit counterproductive
04:08 by with the summit is that we didn't speak about, we didn't talk about the subjects that
04:13 really matter. If we look at the news headlines, it was all about, you know, the statement
04:18 on Ukraine. I think Ukraine is very important, but, you know, to squabble around it with
04:23 Latin American countries, I think is counterproductive. And in a response to that, the Latin American
04:28 countries, well, they said, what about your colonial past and possible reparation? These
04:32 are not the subjects that matter. We need to talk about trade. We need to talk about
04:37 gaining influence in the region. Latin America is as big as China. If you combine almost
04:42 as big as China. If you combine it. Shadah Islam, what would you say to that? Well, I
04:45 think it's very important that we do go to the past. And I think the statement that came
04:50 out, Maeve, on the regrets and it wasn't an apology, but it was a recognition of the damage,
04:56 the devastation caused by colonialism, the extraction economy that we ran for centuries
05:02 in the region, and also the trade and enslaved people. These are very important points, Maeve,
05:07 and they are coming up, not just from Latin America and the Caribbean, but also from Africa
05:12 and parts of Asia. So I think the Eurocentric view that Europe has adopted so far, trying
05:18 to ignore the past, some kind of historical amnesia about colonialism and the devastation
05:24 it's caused is coming back to haunt us. And we need to deal with it in a way that is,
05:28 I think, respectful, good term and dignified. And I think we got there. This is a template,
05:33 Maeve, I think, that African countries and some Asian countries will like to follow.
05:39 And my advice would be do follow that. Do follow that, even though you believe that
05:43 shouldn't have even been perhaps on the conclusions at that point. Look, that's something that
05:48 happened in the past. And I think that we need to look forward. And if we look at Latin
05:53 American countries, they also want to look forward. They want economic growth. They want
05:57 to be part of the global trade community. They want their middle class to grow. That's
06:03 what the people in Latin America worry about. And they want an apology. Didn't we see your
06:06 government, the Dutch government, also offer an apology there a couple of weeks ago? Yes.
06:10 And I think, well, what do these people gain that receive an apology? I mean, is that really
06:17 a productive thing to focus on? Well, they want reparations, I guess, as well. But there's
06:22 no word on that in the text. No, there's been a big clash on this. And it's a historical
06:27 question, of course, for them and all of the damages that they're suffering, which is still,
06:31 by the way, and I want to insist on that, we are still as European Union, and I dissociate
06:38 from that, but having an approach which is not based on, you know, we respect you as
06:43 equals and we want an economic and a trade policy which is to your benefit as much as
06:48 else. Because we always say, yeah, China is gaining ground. But why is China gaining ground?
06:52 Because they've generally offered more favorable trade deals with less, how would I say, political
06:57 conditions. You know, we've had the European Parliament voting on who should be president
07:00 of what country in Latin America. That's absolutely crazy, of course, you know, imagine us in
07:05 Europe being, you know, confronted to Latin American countries telling us, well, you know,
07:10 the Prime Minister of Belgium really should be this one. You know, you can't imagine that.
07:13 So that is something that they really insist upon, the sovereignty, this equal development.
07:18 And secondly, and this is where the Ukraine question comes in, what many Latin American
07:23 countries here during this summit have highlighted is the importance of going towards a multipolar
07:28 world, saying we do not want a world that's divided in blocks with one, let's say, US-led
07:33 block and one, I don't know, China-Russian block. We want different poles that work together
07:39 and that come together through mutual beneficial trade relations. And the European Union should
07:44 listen to that, you know, and there's a debate right now saying should the European Union,
07:48 yes or no, you know, develop as an independent pole or should we just continue to run behind
07:53 the United States? Latin America comes with a very clear message saying, please, let's
07:58 have a non-aligned foreign policy independent to our mutual benefit.
08:02 A reaction, Shada Islam, to that and also to the fact that this summit probably would
08:06 not have even taken place if it wasn't for the fact that Spain is currently presiding
08:10 over the European Union for the next six months and Latin America, obviously, a huge priority
08:14 for Spain.
08:15 No, absolutely. I think that's important. A member state, you know, with its colonial
08:18 past in the region has played a role in bringing these countries together. We cannot hold it
08:23 together. This was a performative summit, a lot of glamour, a lot of oomph and, you
08:27 know, people wearing nice clothes and all the rest of it. And the content was weak,
08:31 not just on Ukraine, but there I understand totally what Mark has said. You know, the
08:35 thing is that for countries in the global south and Latin America, CELAC is very much
08:40 part of the global south. This war existential for us is just a European war for them. They
08:46 have their own concerns, their own conflicts they have to deal with. They have debt, enormous
08:51 debt issues, hunger, climate change. All of these things are very important. And Europe
08:56 goes there and says, come and condemn Ukraine. Yes, but that's not their main priority. Their
09:02 main priority is survival in this very competitive world. It is, I agree with Mark, a multipolar
09:09 world. And if Europe wants to play a role in this multipolar world, I think it can.
09:14 It has to show respect and an equal partnership may have just doesn't fall from the sky. It
09:18 has to be built from the ground.
09:19 It doesn't fall from the sky. You mentioned there the pump. I think there was even dance
09:23 that the leaders were given a performance. But when it comes to content, Michiel, we
09:27 did see the EU offer 45 billion for this global gateway plan. It would see the EU have fund
09:34 electric buses, for example, in Costa Rica, 5G in Jamaica. I mean, is this a good plan?
09:39 Will it work? Or is Europe perhaps too late to this party?
09:41 Well, I agree with my colleagues at the table that we should respect their national sovereignty
09:47 and their national interest of Latin America. And in Dutch, we have an interesting saying
09:52 that you can either be a merchant or you can be a reverend. And I actually agree that we
09:56 need to have a more of a merchant mindset where we go to these countries, we see, OK,
10:01 can we create a level playing field on trade, on tariffs, again, on making their middle
10:06 class grow, on making our companies being able to invest in their economies.
10:11 At the same time, we come in and we come spreading the gospel of global climate governance, for
10:17 example. And we impose these policies legally binding on these countries while their economy
10:22 is not even that compatible. So we should refrain from spreading our own gospel to these
10:30 countries and we should really focus on the merchant side.
10:34 Final reaction to that?
10:35 Yeah, a bit of what Michiel said is right. But the fact is that we've had a transactional
10:39 mercantile relationship with the region for many years. And a lot of the global South
10:43 countries are fed up of that. Come to us. They say, come and invest. Don't just take
10:47 our minerals away. We've just had to deal now with Indonesia, a real problem, because
10:51 Indonesia is imposing exports on its nickel, right? Restrictions on its nickel export.
10:57 They want European companies to come and invest there. So that transactional relationship,
11:01 I think, doesn't work. And when it comes to Global Gateway, Maeve, I think, you know,
11:06 this whole thing is overblown. It's just a response to the Belt and Road Initiative of
11:10 China. And a number of countries have many, many questions about what it really is. The
11:15 standards Europe brings to the table are good. Transparency, accountability, environmental
11:21 norms, labour standards, excellent. But they have to be worked out in partnership, not
11:25 imposed. Michiel is right, not imposed, but worked out in partnership. Once again, equal
11:30 partnership.
11:31 Equal partnership. And Michiel, you mentioned Ukraine. I mean, do you feel like it overshadowed
11:35 the summit? I know for my part, as I was walking around the EU quarter, we saw a number of
11:39 posters saying that Latinos, they very much support Ukraine. You can take a look at those
11:45 posters saying an invasion is an invasion. There is a huge movement there on the ground
11:49 of civil society saying that they're on the same line as the European Union vis-a-vis
11:53 Vladimir Putin. But of course, when we saw the final conclusions that came out earlier
11:58 this week, deep concern was all the words that were used on the ongoing war against
12:03 Ukraine. I believe they spent hours just discussing that word against whether to use it or not.
12:08 I mean, does that upset you, Mark Potenga, that this conclusion is so weak when we're
12:12 regarding Ukraine?
12:13 No, I think it reflects a fundamentally different perspective amongst, and I wouldn't give too
12:20 much importance to sponsored posters in the European quarter. But it does reflect a fundamental
12:28 difference in perspective that you have in the global south towards the war in Ukraine
12:33 and that you have in Europe and the United States. So the European governments, the United
12:37 States government has very much been saying, you know, we're going to support Ukraine no
12:41 matter what. We're going to put in weapons, arms and have systematically basically refused
12:46 diplomacy. Now, if you've looked at the global south, if you looked at Lula, for example,
12:50 president of Brazil, so the core country of CELAC, he's been systematically saying, you
12:55 know, we need to bring this war to an end. So it's not that they don't care about Ukraine.
12:58 What they say is in order to stop the war in Ukraine, to stop the killing, to stop the
13:03 dying, we need to get these people around the table. You know, we need to force negotiations
13:08 open, you know, to perhaps partial ceasefires and so on. And this has been a very strong
13:13 voice from the global south. This is not something Europe sees only in Latin America. This is
13:18 also in Africa. And, you know, this is very, very important to understand this different
13:24 perspective. These countries and peoples of these countries are like, you know, it's a
13:28 war. We need to stop it. And let's stop it through diplomacy. And this, how would I say
13:33 this? This declaration of the EU CELAC basically reflects these differences between Europe
13:39 saying we'll give more weapons, we'll finance and so on. And the countries from the south
13:43 say sit around the table, discuss and end the war.
13:48 Brief reaction to that?
13:49 Well, in an ideal world, I would have loved all the countries in the world to align with
13:54 the West again in favor of Ukraine against the Russian aggression. I'm in favor of supporting
14:01 Ukraine as much as we can. I think Ukraine should win, should win the war, should regain
14:08 its sovereign territory. But we cannot force countries to be aligned the same way we are.
14:19 And when it's in their strategic interest to make other decisions on that regard, we
14:24 should respect that. And we should look at what is in our interest with our relations
14:28 to the Latin American countries. And again, that's trade that is lowering tariffs. That's
14:32 also making it possible for Latin Americans to invest in our countries to sell their products
14:38 to us. That's in all our benefits. If we have more free trade, we have more prosperity.
14:42 Well, on that note, another perhaps elephant in the room at that summit this week was,
14:46 of course, the EU-Mercosur trade deal. It's been on the table for, I think, over 20 years
14:50 now. And a political agreement was reached back in 2019. But the deal still very much
14:55 needs to be sealed. You mentioned the president of Brazil. Well, he was discussing that this
14:59 week, calling for a balanced deal. And I'd just like to show our viewers what's really
15:02 at stake with this deal. That's according, of course, to the European Commission. They
15:06 believe it will be a good deal. It will make it easier for EU firms to sell goods and services,
15:11 make it easier for Mercosur, of course, to export into the European Union as well. Get
15:16 rid of tariffs on cars, chocolate, textile and spirits, and also create jobs in markets.
15:22 So I guess we probably know your reaction to this deal. I mean, you probably want it
15:26 done and dusted ASAP. Well, I think it's very positive. I think that we should make strides
15:32 in this, in reaching this deal, making sure it's ratified. Again, we see in Latin American
15:39 countries, we saw the president of Brazil. He's been quite vocal on the chapter we have
15:43 on climate, for example, on biodiversity. The discussion was whether it should be legally
15:50 binding or whether it should be more of a guideline. And I'm more of the latter approach.
15:55 Shada, what's your take on that? Well, I think it's important to have this deal, but not
15:58 in any condition. And I think the NGOs, the specialists who are saying this is not very
16:03 good from the deforestation point of view, from the climate change point of view, they
16:07 need to be heard as well. So trade, yes, but not trade at any terms or at any cost. And
16:12 I think that's where we need to have a real discussion, Mave. And we're not doing that
16:15 yet. The EU needs trade deals with the rest of the world, but everywhere it goes, it goes
16:20 with its own conditions, doesn't listen to the local desires and aspirations. It's doing
16:25 it everywhere. And the result is that we come back with these agreements, semi agreements
16:30 or hopeful agreements, and then the European Parliament kicks in with its own ideas and
16:35 puts a block on it. So we need to get this sorted. Trade is important, but trade is not
16:41 a panacea for everything that's wrong in the world. And I think we tend to treat trade
16:46 as being the only instrument that we really have to get our norms and our standards accepted
16:52 by the rest of the world. And now the markets are big. China's a huge market. India is a
16:57 huge market. And people have choices. People have options. So they're not just coming to
17:01 the European Union. And the idea that somehow Brussels is the god in terms of, you know,
17:06 the markets it has, I think that's been eroding for some years now.
17:10 Even though many here do think it is the god, that's a good wake up call, perhaps for them.
17:13 Shall I Islam and you mentioned NGOs and having their voice heard and we were listening to
17:17 them earlier this week as they were protesting outside the European Parliament's and our
17:21 Ali Liberté went out to hear what they feel about this Mercosur trade deal.
17:26 We are here today because free trade agreement threatened small scale farmers all over the
17:32 world in Latin America, but also in Europe. And so as we want to survive, as we want to
17:38 continue to produce good food for the people, we need to struggle against free trade agreements.
17:44 It's a dinosaur trade agreement that follows the principles of the 90s. It is has not included
17:50 the Paris Agreement goals. It has not included the biodiversity crisis that we're in. And
17:55 it has also not included the will and the wish of Latin American countries to develop
18:00 towards industrialized countries to develop a proper middle class. This trade agreement
18:05 would mainly serve the big land oligarchs. It was serve the big industrial agriculture
18:10 on ethanol on soy, and it's not serving the people neither on this side nor on that side
18:15 of the sea.
18:16 Thomas Waits, they're the Austrian MEP among those protesters calling it a dinosaur deal.
18:21 It does sometimes perhaps seem to go against the ambitions of the EU Green Deal. What's
18:25 your take on it?
18:26 It's a deal that's been negotiated for many, many years. And that's since the very start
18:30 been, you know, kind of an arm wrestling deal with also within the European Union, who's
18:35 going to get more out of it. For example, at some point, the German car industry was
18:39 very happy with the deal because they'd be able to export more, more cars. And you can
18:43 say trade's good. But you need to see what are the terms of that trade, and especially
18:48 I think for agriculture, because farmers, so there's the message to farmers over there,
18:55 and what kind of farming you will have in Latin America, which groups will benefit from
18:59 it. And then there's the question of what kind of farming and agriculture you're going
19:03 to have in the European Union with this deal. What's going to be the impact on small farmers
19:07 that are already struggling to survive right now? So in this sense, this deal, and I very
19:12 much understand the approach of Latin American countries are saying, well, you wanted this
19:15 deal, you know, and you kind of put on your terms and according to who lobbied best in
19:22 Brussels, you know, that got most out of the deal, because it's not like the European Union
19:25 is one block. There's been a number of lobbies.
19:28 And the Latin Americans are now saying, well, if you want it, come and discuss with us.
19:32 And we've had a lot of scared farmers in Ireland here as well in France worrying that their
19:37 beef industries, of course, will also be devastated. We'll keep you updated on that as we have
19:41 more for now. I'm afraid that is all we have time for on that topic. But don't go anywhere
19:45 because after the break, we'll be hearing all about the EU's multi-million handshake
19:49 over in Tunisia last weekend. Stay with us here on Euronews.
19:52 Welcome back to Brussels, my love. I'm Maeve McMahan. And along with my panel, we're looking
20:05 back at the week that was in Europe. And one story that struck us here at Euronews was
20:10 the deal reached in Tunisia last Sunday night in the presence of the EU Commission President
20:14 Ursula von der Leyen and the Dutch and Italian prime ministers. The text that still needs
20:19 to be fleshed out earmarks up to 700 million euros in EU funding and in loans to beef up
20:24 the Tunisian economy. 105 million euro would go to addressing migration, border management
20:30 and helping with returns. 150 million in budgetary aid. Did you keep an eye on that deal? Did
20:37 you follow the story? Well, there was no possibility for me not to follow the story since our government
20:42 collapsed some time ago. It was there as a caretaker on this particular on this particular
20:48 subject. So, yeah, it's a huge problem for the Netherlands. The influx of illegal migration.
20:56 There is no way that we have our asylum centres. They're full. So there's no way for us to
21:01 handle. So we need to tackle illegal migration. So in that sense, I'm positive that that this
21:05 deal was reached. Shameful deal, I think really shows, demonstrates Europe's losing its moral
21:13 compass, doing deals with dictators who we know is really persecuting black migrants
21:19 on his own territory. There are deportations. There is, you know, collective throwing people
21:26 out of the country. We've seen that there are migrants in the deserts suffering from
21:31 hunger and thirst. And here we have a European Union of values. What values when we do deals
21:37 with dictators? And it's not just the Tunisian deal. It's also the way we're dealing the
21:42 messy, inhumane way we're dealing with migration. Generally, you know, we've made it a criminal
21:48 offense. The NGOs were working on rescue missions are being treated as criminals. There are
21:55 sinking deliberate sinking of ships. Pushbacks. Frontex is allegedly involved as well. All
22:01 of this for me, Maeve, is this is a centerpiece of how Europe is used, losing its moral authority,
22:07 moral power when it comes to migration. No legal pathways, by the way, are available
22:11 for any refugees who are not Ukrainians. So we're in a mess, a bad, cruel mess. We're
22:17 in a bad, cruel mess. That was the tone, in fact, of a meeting this week at the European
22:20 Parliament. They were very critical of the EU commissioner for migration, Ilvi Johansson,
22:25 who stood up and defended that deal. Her argument for defending the deal was the fact that 40,000
22:30 people had a regular, irregularly crossed the Mediterranean this year. And this, in
22:34 her eyes, was the only way to stop it by handing over the money and giving it to the Tunisian
22:37 government. What's your take? Well, I think that the deal as such is very similar to other
22:43 deals we've had and is indeed from that perspective, not just shameful in the sense that you will
22:47 see people die in the desert. But secondly, it's also very short sighted because the kind
22:54 of support and loans you're going to give to Tunisia are not going to help Tunisia.
22:57 You know this. This is the same kind of loans we've been giving to different countries in
23:02 Africa, generally with conditionalities attached, which do not at all allow these countries
23:06 to actually develop, industrialize and so on. What these loans do is basically put these
23:11 countries further in a debt trap. And secondly, what we hear nothing about is how to deal
23:17 with the causes of why these people are seeking refuge, you know, and the responsibility of
23:22 European governments in this is massive. You cannot speak about migration growing to Tunisia
23:28 without speaking about the war in Libya, that, you know, Libya was a country that was destroyed
23:33 by European governments with the help of the United States and that has caused a destabilization
23:38 of the entire West of Africa. So if you do not tackle the causes, the root causes of
23:43 why these people actually seek refuge, anything you do will be inhumane.
23:47 Michel, I'd like to get a reaction from you. But first, let's also bring in the head of
23:51 the research organization. She's from the Migration Policy Group, Basak Yavkan. We were
23:56 speaking to her as well this week to get her take on the deal.
23:59 What we have seen with externalization policies is certain funds provided to third countries
24:07 in return for greater border security. But a lot of times there is no strict provision
24:14 of overseeing mechanisms for violations of human rights. In addition, these kind of policies
24:23 empower the leaders of these countries, some of which are authoritarian leaders. And this
24:28 in return can also produce more migration from those countries.
24:33 So Basak Yavkan there. Michel, you're hearing a lot of arguments there against the deal
24:37 and the fact that the EU has already had previous deals like this that many would argue didn't
24:41 work. What would you say to that?
24:43 First of all, when talking about abiding to the law, about treating it as an offense,
24:48 it is an offense to come here as an illegal migrant. So we need to tackle the influx of
24:55 illegal migration. If you keep having these policies where you say, well, you're able
25:00 to come over here and have a better life, then the people will continue to come. So
25:05 you need to have policies in place that will refrain people from coming here. Now, in that
25:11 sense, you need to be realistic. You need to deal with regimes, governments that you
25:16 do not particularly like in order to serve your own interests. So in that sense, I think
25:20 it's good that we are making this deal. On the other hand, it also really shows the vulnerability
25:25 we have in our migration system because we make ourselves vulnerable of a dictator, an
25:33 authoritarian person. So can we trust this person? It was the same with the Turkey deal.
25:39 It didn't really work. What did work, my last point, what did work was border fences, border
25:45 walls. We need to put a policy in place, a bit of an Australian model.
25:50 Shada, let's hear your take from that. You look, your face expression.
25:54 I have to say, really fearful and scared out of my wits when I hear stuff like that. I
26:00 thought we were a European union of values. That's one of the things I cherish about Europe
26:04 and fortress Europe or building fences and this cruel repatriation refinement policies
26:11 that we have. They are really a violation of our own treaties and the conventions that
26:17 we've signed and helped to actually craft. So when we see these vulnerable, the weakest
26:23 people in the world, vulnerable people fleeing war, conflict, climate change, famine, looking
26:29 for a life, I wouldn't say always a better life, looking for a life for their children,
26:34 for themselves. We are blocking them and creating this cruel, harsh policies. The world is appalled.
26:41 I am appalled. Our NGOs are appalled. And Tunisians are appalled. Tunisians are absolutely
26:47 appalled. I spoke to a number of Tunisians earlier this week and they told me they had
26:50 no information on this deal and they're worried as well their country will turn into exactly
26:54 that a fortress, a prison. And they told me about the mistreatment of migrants there.
26:57 Yeah, sent to the desert too. We are destabilizing through our policy that entire region. In
27:05 fact, I would say more than just that region, Middle East, Afghanistan, up to Pakistan,
27:09 Bangladesh, India, with our policies. Climate change also, people are fleeing the devastation
27:16 caused by the floods, say in Pakistan. And Pakistan has asked for climate justice. So
27:21 we are seeing a number of reasons that I think are too difficult for us to fathom. And all
27:26 we're trying to do is push, push, push. We will definitely come back to that topic for
27:31 sure very soon here on Brussels My Love. Thank you so much for your insights. And we'll keep
27:34 an eye on that story as that money is dispersed. Thank you so much to you for tuning in as
27:38 well here on Euronews. See you soon.
27:49 Hello there, you're watching Brussels My Love, Euronews' weekly talk show. I'm Maeve McMahon.
27:54 Now summer is here and with it, festival season and concert goers all around the continent
27:58 are digging very deeply into their pockets to see their favorite artists. Just to give
28:03 you an example, to see the Queen of Pop, Madonna, who'll be coming to Europe very soon once
28:08 she's well for her celebration tour. Fans have been paying huge money from €324, for
28:16 example, to €376 or even €495 to be on the very front row. I mean, you're talking
28:26 huge money. And if you want to bring a friend, it's €1000 to go and see Madonna. Would you
28:30 all pay that much money to see your favorite artist?
28:33 I wouldn't pay to see Madonna. But no, I think it's absolutely ridiculous. And we've even
28:41 seen, because it's not always the artists choosing this, I mean, we've seen companies
28:46 behind them. I remember The Cure, for example, I think it was The Cure that said we want
28:50 to do like a tour and we want to get ticket prices as low as possible. And I think they
28:55 offer ticket prices at about what, $20, it was $30. And in the end, they found out that
29:01 because of all of these intermediaries, ticket prices exploded anyway. And so fans were massively
29:05 disappointed because they heard the singer of their favorite band saying, you know, it's
29:09 not going to be expensive.
29:10 But that's precisely the problem. The money is not necessarily going to your favorite
29:12 artist. Just briefly, would you pay that much for a ticket?
29:15 Well, never. I don't like this dynamic pricing, but going to a concert is not a human right.
29:21 And I think if we call out on this, I think we should call out on the artist, actually.
29:27 You say it's not the choice of the artist, but if the artist finds out that they have
29:30 dynamic pricing and their fans, you know, I have a daughter, she might grow up and would
29:35 like to go to a Taylor Swift concert. She would be disappointed if these prices were,
29:41 if I had to pay such prices. So we should call out on the artist anyway.
29:45 OK. Shall I say something very briefly?
29:47 When Taylor Swift comes to town, prices go up, inflation comes into the country as well.
29:51 So I'm against this totally.
29:54 And another lady who's absolutely against it and she's outraged is the Dutch MEP, Lara
29:58 Volters, one of your colleagues. And she's written to the European Commission to intervene
30:02 if they can. Take a listen.
30:04 I brought this issue up in the European Parliament because summer is supposed to be a time of
30:08 live music for many people to enjoy. And when there's concerns of market manipulation, of
30:14 unfair practices, then I think it's time for the EU to look into that.
30:19 When one fan is paying 200 euros for the exact same concert tickets for Beyonce as the next
30:26 one who is paying 700 euros, are the practices of Live Nation, Ticketmaster, are they lawful
30:32 under current consumer protection rules in the EU, under current competition rules?
30:37 Lara Volters there saying the EU should intervene.
30:40 Well, Lara Volters wants the EU to intervene on many things where I think this is not actually
30:45 a competence of the EU. I think this is a national competence where you look at how
30:50 prices are being determined. Again, I don't really think that going to a pop concert is
30:56 a human right. I think if you would like to go to a place that's very popular, you pay
31:01 more. That's not a human right. So what we're saying is you can only go if you can afford
31:04 it.
31:05 Well, to be honest, I think actually access to culture is a human right. There is, by
31:09 the way, there's a convent on the social, economic and cultural rights as well, which
31:13 is something different. But I mean, the concept of culture, access to culture is a human right.
31:19 And when you go to festivals today and you ask people how much they had to pay, you know,
31:23 young people, how much you had to pay to attend the festival, it's absolutely ridiculous.
31:27 Member states can block ticket prices. So member states can say we don't want these
31:31 ridiculous ticket prices. You know, they could say block prices like you could do it in other
31:34 sectors. Some member states have done it for for energy, other places. Anyway, so this
31:38 would be one thing. Secondly, you should indeed look at how the market works and say, perhaps
31:42 this is not we want. This is not the way we want a European market for culture. Do we
31:47 want do we want to be good?
31:49 Well, I'd like to know where the money's going, if it's going to help refugees and people
31:52 who are fighting hunger and famine in the rest of the world, in the global south, I'd
31:57 say, yes, let's pay that price if we're willing to. Where's the money going?
32:00 It's certainly not going to refugees. It's going to face value of the ticket service
32:04 fees, order processing fee, delivery fee, facility charges and taxes.
32:08 Exactly. And the artist and the artist, of course. Thank you so much to our guests for
32:13 being with us here. Great to have you on the show. Thank you so much to you for watching.
32:17 Any reactions to what you've heard today? Do reach out. Our email address is Brussels,
32:21 my love at Euronews.com. You can also find us on Twitter and on Instagram. See you soon
32:26 here on Euronews and Euronews.com.
32:28 [Music]