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00:00 - I definitely wasn't planning on speaking to you
00:02 this early in the season because it's so unlike you.
00:06 - I know, I got a whole, this is my CBS debut
00:10 and since there's two episodes a week,
00:12 I literally got one whole week.
00:14 - Well, at least we got to see a good amount of you
00:18 in those two episodes.
00:20 - It's right, at least you got a statue, right?
00:22 - Yeah, exactly.
00:23 It's been two seasons in a row now
00:25 that you've been the first pick
00:26 on world championship and here.
00:27 So how do you feel about that?
00:29 Did that surprise you at all?
00:30 Like, what are your thoughts on that?
00:32 - It surprised me both times, to be honest with you.
00:35 Yeah, I remember like when Josh said me,
00:40 I like looked at the executive producer,
00:42 I was like, what, first round draft pick again?
00:45 It was cool.
00:48 And now that I'm thinking about it though,
00:52 next time I don't wanna be picked first
00:55 because first round draft pick
00:57 has not turned out so great for me.
00:58 - Yeah, and then too much pressure.
01:01 It's like so much. - Yeah, too much pressure.
01:03 Not only that, we already,
01:05 so we entered the game right there,
01:06 it was 18 versus six, right?
01:08 And then they make the 18 people who already want us out,
01:12 then they make us carry a statue of me up a mountain.
01:16 I'm like, and riding a jet ski, crash their party,
01:19 and then I get first round draft pick.
01:22 If there were any more ways
01:25 to paint a huge target on my back,
01:26 like I was, I already knew,
01:28 my back was against the wall
01:31 and it was gonna be an uphill battle.
01:33 - Yeah, yeah, well, so when you guys were coming in
01:35 as the vets from MTV,
01:37 were you anticipating the CBS players
01:39 to really target you as much as they did?
01:41 - Not as much as they did.
01:44 So whenever we go into a game,
01:46 we don't know what the game setup's gonna be.
01:47 We don't know if it's pairs,
01:48 we don't know if it's individual,
01:50 we don't know if it's groups.
01:51 So I knew that I would kind of somewhat have a target
01:56 because coming from winning back to back,
01:59 coming from the global championship,
02:02 if any of the CBS people
02:05 weren't really fans of the challenge before,
02:07 the last shows that they've seen
02:08 are what's available right now on Paramount.
02:11 And I'm like, I know they've all seen
02:12 the global championship,
02:13 I know they've all seen All Stars,
02:15 I'm screwed.
02:16 I'm trying to figure out how I can navigate this.
02:19 And then once we heard the game setup,
02:22 I was just like, I am.
02:24 I'm gonna have to make some big risky moves
02:27 in order to survive.
02:30 - Yeah, I didn't even get a chance really.
02:33 But I mean, in the first episode,
02:35 you did kind of make some waves
02:36 when you voted for Michelle, who was on your team.
02:40 Tell me a little bit about where that was coming from.
02:42 - Like why?
02:43 - Yeah.
02:45 - So for me, like I said already,
02:47 once we found out the game,
02:50 I figured out that the thing that these 18 people
02:53 have in common is they want the six of us out.
02:56 We are outnumbered, even in our team setting,
02:58 we're outnumbered six to two, right?
03:00 As soon as I found out the game rules,
03:03 I realized, you know, everybody was thinking team,
03:05 they're thinking red team, blue team, whatever,
03:07 that's how I'm gonna play the game.
03:09 I immediately knew from past challenge experience,
03:12 first of all, we're not gonna stay in teams forever,
03:14 at some point it's gonna be individual.
03:15 At some point, it's gonna be big brother
03:18 versus survivor versus amazing race.
03:20 Like I was all in my head from the jump
03:24 because I think that's what happens
03:25 when I feel like I'm under fire.
03:27 I immediately think of how do I get out of this?
03:30 So for me, I knew that the target was on the vets
03:34 and that the only way to better my position in the game
03:38 is by to really break it down.
03:40 And so I broke it down in a way that I basically figured
03:45 that Michelle was aligned with similar people
03:50 and I mean, she's the only woman that was there
03:53 that had won her survivor season
03:55 and I knew how smart she was.
03:57 I know she plays it off like, oh, you know, whatever,
04:00 I'm just social and friendly, but she is so smart.
04:03 And I knew that the only obstacle standing in my way
04:07 or something that would be a problem down the line
04:09 in my game would be her.
04:12 She was connected to the same people that I was
04:14 and when it comes down further down the line,
04:17 it's like, when you get the chance,
04:19 you wanna take out the people
04:20 that once your allies are faced with the decision,
04:23 okay, who do I pick, Johnny or Michelle?
04:26 I just knew in that moment that my only chance
04:30 to better my game and further me along
04:33 was by getting her out of there.
04:36 And the crazy thing is, is her and I are like,
04:38 we're friends now and we've talked about everything
04:41 and we're like, hey, next time,
04:42 like let's be on the same page.
04:44 (laughing)
04:46 - Yeah, we work together and-
04:49 - I also didn't know when I put the ball in there,
04:53 I was so freaked out.
04:54 I'm like, I'm taking such a gamble and such a risk
04:56 by putting her name in here.
04:57 I didn't know they were gonna show at the elimination
05:00 who voted for who, they kept saying it was a secret vote.
05:03 So had my idea or my plan worked out,
05:08 it would have helped me down the line.
05:11 And so that's the tricky spot that you're in.
05:14 It's like, I was playing chess,
05:16 this is the best analogy I can use.
05:17 I was playing chess while everyone
05:19 was still playing checkers.
05:20 And it's like, if you don't get to the point
05:23 where that move will help you,
05:24 then it doesn't help anybody at all.
05:26 But I figured I was gonna go into elimination
05:28 every single time anyways, just how it was set up.
05:31 So I was like, either I make a big move now and help myself
05:36 or I'm gonna be fighting an uphill battle.
05:39 And it didn't work out this time.
05:41 - Right, I mean, honestly, that all makes a lot of sense.
05:44 It wasn't like just a random decision, it seems.
05:46 So I get where you're coming from.
05:48 - Yeah.
05:49 - And then when it came to your elimination,
05:51 so it doesn't seem like you were that surprised
05:53 to get so many votes, but is there anything you think
05:56 you could have kind of done differently
05:57 to take the heat off yourself
05:59 or were you just screwed no matter what?
06:01 - Well, to take the heat off myself
06:04 to not get so many balls in the hopper,
06:06 probably just not vote for my own teammate
06:08 would have been the first step.
06:10 - Yeah.
06:13 - Maybe lay low a little bit more, but I felt after,
06:17 like I said, riding up on the jet ski,
06:19 the carrying the statue, first round draft pick,
06:22 coming off back-to-back wins,
06:23 I figured I was screwed no matter what.
06:26 But now seeing it all from this side of it,
06:29 I now know my gut and my intuition,
06:35 what to do that was right.
06:37 - Yeah.
06:38 - Because from what I've heard,
06:40 I don't know what happens in the season,
06:42 but a lot of it unfolds.
06:44 And I think that my choice to vote Michelle in
06:46 will make more sense down the road for everybody else.
06:49 Because I was already on step six
06:52 when everybody was still on step one.
06:55 - Right, right.
06:56 That's why everyone wants to play with you
06:58 'cause you're always thinking ahead
06:59 and you really know what's going on.
07:01 - If I can figure out a balance between being in my own head
07:05 and executing it at the right time, then I'll be lethal.
07:09 - Well, you've done it before.
07:10 So I wouldn't be surprised if you have a chance again.
07:14 With the elimination, it kind of seemed a favor to Tori
07:16 just 'cause she's bigger than you
07:18 and it was kind of good for someone
07:21 who was bigger than the other person.
07:22 So how did you feel about yourself going into it?
07:25 - Well, so the thing is,
07:27 so they asked us at the beginning, they're like,
07:29 "Oh, how do you feel about certain eliminations?"
07:32 For me, the reason why I thrived in all-stars and whatever
07:36 is because I'm good at eliminations that involve endurance,
07:39 that have the puzzle equalizer,
07:40 because that's my wheelhouse.
07:43 Things like "Hall Brawl" balls in,
07:45 those kinds of games are not my wheelhouse.
07:48 Now, I have to give credit to Tori
07:50 because she is a beast.
07:52 She is not someone you wanna see in elimination
07:55 like ever in a physical elimination.
07:57 So I feel like had it been someone else,
07:59 I maybe could have stood a better chance,
08:01 but that one just wasn't my game.
08:04 And so that's what makes this whole Hopper situation
08:07 and this whole game so scary is,
08:10 instead of like on USA1,
08:12 they random lottery partners every day,
08:16 this is a lottery elimination and it is so terrifying.
08:19 You don't know what's gonna be thrown your way.
08:23 - They love keeping you there.
08:25 - But I wish it was anything else
08:27 but balls in against Tori.
08:29 - I know.
08:31 - I think the rest of the house,
08:32 the funny thing is the rest of the house
08:33 was hoping the same thing.
08:35 I think everyone's goal and intention
08:37 was to get Tori out 'cause she was like the reigning champ.
08:40 And so that's why they put me in,
08:42 but I was like, "Hey guys,
08:43 next time you want me to take out
08:46 the reigning bad-ass champ, give me a heads up.
08:49 I'm not gonna try to, you can put my name in the Hopper,
08:52 you can do whatever you want,
08:53 but I'll be a little bit more prepared.
08:55 But even more preparation with this game
08:57 wouldn't have helped me, so.
08:59 - That's true, it's half the time
09:01 you can never even know
09:02 what you're gonna be up against on the show.
09:03 So it's just luck of the draw.
09:06 All right, well you've done--
09:07 - Literally, luck of the Hopper.
09:09 - Yeah, seriously.
09:10 You've done a few seasons back to back here,
09:13 you've been successful.
09:14 Obviously this one didn't go the way you wanted it to.
09:17 Do you see yourself continuing to come back
09:19 if you're asked in the future?
09:20 - So yeah, I feel like, I don't know.
09:25 So I feel like my target is so big right now
09:27 and I don't know if it's because I created it or what,
09:31 but if every house I walk into is gonna be like this,
09:35 it's gonna be so, I need to start trading more.
09:38 But for me personally,
09:41 the opportunity to do USA was a big deal for me
09:45 because I feel like I finally stepped into my own
09:48 as the competitor and challenger that I am
09:50 and I wanted to prove it to myself and to everybody.
09:53 Like, hey, I didn't just win all stars
09:55 because I was competing against older people,
09:57 I did it because I deserve it.
10:00 So I still, I just can't end on going home second.
10:04 Like that's just, you know,
10:06 like I should have retired at the global championship,
10:10 but I was still undefeated.
10:12 You know, so for me, I would love the chance
10:16 to do the Bain show just one more time.
10:18 And then I think, you know, gotta just focus on the family.
10:21 So we'll see.
10:23 I say that, but we'll see when they call, right?
10:26 - I think you have it in you.
10:27 So you should definitely come back if you're asked again,
10:29 'cause you got one more year.
10:32 - Well, again, sorry that this is so early in the season,
10:35 but it's been so lovely to talk to you
10:37 and good luck with everything.
10:38 - Thank you.