Join the team for a round up of the home nation action as all teams gun for quarter final placement.
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00:00 Wales really need the older players in the squad,
00:02 the guys who have been there and done that,
00:04 they need to step up and the younger players
00:06 need to play with a bit of freedom
00:07 and it's all about blending those two sets of players.
00:12 And you know, before it was like
00:14 they were mixing Baileys and Coke
00:16 and now it's like they've finally got
00:18 a lovely gin and tonic together.
00:20 It's clicking, do you know what I mean?
00:29 - Hello and welcome once again
00:30 to National World's Kick and Chase
00:32 Rugby World Cup 2020 free podcast.
00:34 I'm your host Martin Simpson,
00:36 joined once again by James Copley and Phil Bramley.
00:39 And we're gonna be looking back
00:40 at the latest round of action from the tournament,
00:43 looking ahead to the upcoming matches
00:45 and to the upcoming knockout rounds.
00:47 So James, best place to start this week,
00:49 I think is with Wales,
00:50 who are the first team through to the quarterfinals.
00:55 I mean, how are you feeling?
00:57 How are people in Wales feeling?
00:58 It's quite a turnaround maybe from how
01:01 you might've been feeling at the start of the tournament, eh?
01:03 - Yeah, absolutely.
01:06 Expectations coming into the tournament were fairly low.
01:09 I think that as good as he's been for Wales
01:14 and as good a coach as he has been in world rugby,
01:17 the jury was still sort of out on Gatland's second spell.
01:21 They always say, don't go back, don't they?
01:22 Was the magic still there?
01:24 Little bit like Eddie Jones in Australia,
01:27 but polar opposites really that Warren Gatland
01:29 is continuing to deliver.
01:31 Wales look strong.
01:32 You know, that phase in the first half against Australia
01:36 where Wales put in a hundred tackles
01:39 and that was the game really,
01:40 once Australia couldn't get through
01:42 and once Wales sort of weathered that open and blitz,
01:46 the game was won.
01:48 Tactically, Wales spot on.
01:49 That had to come through adversity as well.
01:51 I think when Dan Bigger went off,
01:53 the whole of Wales were pretty worried,
01:56 myself included, but Gareth Hanscom,
01:59 what a big performance.
02:00 He missed the first one off the tee,
02:02 but he showed his 2019 Grand Slam winning form
02:06 where he kicked so well against Ireland in that decider.
02:10 And yeah, for the first time really since his injuries,
02:15 we've seen that at test level
02:16 and what an option to have really as well.
02:18 And then, you know, Jack Morgan's performance as well
02:22 was absolutely sublime.
02:24 The assist for the try, you know,
02:26 and I thought the big turning point of the game,
02:29 Wales were 10-6 up.
02:32 Australia kicked to the corner
02:34 instead of taking the penalty.
02:35 Lineout miss, catastrophic at the lineout.
02:37 I believe I heard one Australian pundit say
02:41 that they haven't scored a rolling mole try this year.
02:44 So to take the kick into the corner was suicide really,
02:49 given the lineout success they've had.
02:52 Jack Morgan kicks a 50-22,
02:55 which was absolutely ludicrous from a forward, sorry.
03:00 Lineout penalty, Wales take the points
03:02 and then the second half was pretty standard.
03:05 Brilliant performance, if unexpected.
03:08 And now Wales' path to the quarterfinals
03:11 and the semifinals looks good.
03:13 They've qualified, but on the other foot with Australia,
03:18 Eddie Jones, we've questioned him many times
03:20 on this podcast and, you know,
03:22 there's the whole scandal about allegedly
03:24 having interviewed for the Japan job.
03:27 He's being very cagey with journalists
03:30 and the big question we had was,
03:33 is there any Eddie Jones magic left?
03:35 I don't think there is.
03:36 And with a Lions tour, Lions tour to Australia
03:39 coming up in two years, will he be the head coach?
03:40 If I was a betting man, I would say no.
03:43 - Well, it's very interesting.
03:45 I'm seeing a lot of contrast in headlines
03:47 on the Eddie Jones situation here.
03:50 You see, I saw on the news this morning,
03:52 I believe it was maybe the Telegraph
03:54 or maybe an Australian paper with a similar name.
03:56 I'm paraphrasing here, but it was along the lines of,
03:59 well, the last person still supporting Eddie Jones
04:03 turned the lights out on the way out.
04:06 And then I saw a pundit on BBC saying,
04:09 getting rid of Eddie Jones,
04:10 wherever Sackenham are losing him,
04:11 would be the worst thing Australia could do at the moment.
04:14 Where do you guys stand on that?
04:15 Because I'm reading that headline
04:17 and I'm thinking, really?
04:19 They've got four years until a home world cup.
04:22 It feels like this would be that easy time
04:23 to get another head coach in and build towards that.
04:27 - That's really why it's so critical.
04:30 'Cause I mean, don't get me wrong, Wales were brilliant.
04:32 They found a really good template to win.
04:34 The defence looked fantastic,
04:35 but Australia were absolutely awful.
04:38 They were catastrophically bad.
04:40 And it's really interesting to compare
04:42 the way that Eddie Jones has set up this team
04:44 and the way that Gats has done,
04:45 because obviously we talked earlier about,
04:48 whether he's gonna roll the dice and bring in the kids,
04:50 more or less, obviously,
04:51 Jack Morgan's one of the two other new guys
04:53 who put the hands up,
04:54 but he's kind of gone back to those tried and trusted players
04:57 you know, your Liam Williams, et cetera.
05:00 And Eddie Jones decided not to bring
05:02 those experienced players with him,
05:04 you know, left guys like Hooper at home.
05:06 And that's really come back to bite him
05:09 because you've got to think those kind of experienced players
05:11 are gonna say, when you've got that penalty option,
05:13 let's take that penalty.
05:14 Let's get one point back and then reset.
05:16 So as you said, you know,
05:17 we've got the Lions Tour coming up,
05:18 we've got a Home World Cup.
05:20 I think it's, whilst it's brilliant, obviously,
05:22 for Wales to kind of have that kind of performance,
05:24 I think it's really bad for World Rugby
05:26 to have an Australia that appears to be dropping off
05:28 a cliff right now,
05:29 and you can't really see any way back for them
05:32 as they've got some great talent,
05:34 but it just isn't working.
05:35 Now, to be fair, if they had had Taniyah Latupo in there
05:39 and they had had Skelton,
05:41 would that have kind of shored it up?
05:42 Would that have kind of given them
05:43 a little bit more gain line?
05:44 Possibly, but I mean, those two players
05:47 do not make that difference of a scoreline, do they?
05:49 - No, not at all.
05:51 And a lot of praise, I think,
05:52 really does have to go to Wales,
05:53 'cause yes, Australia were terrible,
05:55 but the thing I really liked,
05:57 we spoke about it on this show before,
05:59 or maybe it was during the Six Nations when we said this,
06:02 Wales really need the older players in the squad,
06:05 the guys who have been there and done that,
06:06 they need to step up and the younger players
06:08 need to play with a bit of freedom,
06:10 and it's all about blending those two sets of players.
06:14 And this feels like the first time
06:16 that it had really come together.
06:18 Before, it was like they were mixing Baileys and Coke,
06:22 and now it's like they've finally got
06:24 a lovely gin and tonic together.
06:26 It's clicking, do you know what I mean?
06:29 And that's really positive for Wales.
06:31 And from an England point of view, Phil,
06:32 I think we don't need to really go into their result
06:36 from the weekend, I think everyone saw that coming.
06:38 But looking ahead to the quarterfinals now,
06:41 'cause England are as good as they are,
06:44 you'll be happy that you're not coming up against Wales,
06:46 I would say, based on that performance.
06:48 All respect to Fiji,
06:49 England certainly aren't gonna take them lightly,
06:51 especially after the Twickenham result.
06:54 There are no easy quarterfinals,
06:57 but given the performance Wales just turned in,
06:59 I think England are gonna be pretty delighted
07:01 that they're not coming up against Wales.
07:03 - 100%, and it's also really interesting
07:07 about what happens with the team selection now.
07:09 Obviously, they've tried Smith coming in at fullback,
07:14 and I thought he played really well,
07:16 took his chances well.
07:17 For me, when Ford came on,
07:20 England's attack was just a little bit more slick.
07:24 Faz looked like a player, basically,
07:25 who hadn't played a game for a month,
07:26 which is exactly what it was,
07:27 and it's understandable that he was rusty.
07:29 I thought he looked a little bit nervous
07:30 off the tee a couple of times.
07:31 His first couple of kicks, he didn't connect really well,
07:33 and he grew into the game.
07:34 But for me personally, I still think
07:37 England have played better with Ford at 10
07:39 than they have with Farrell.
07:39 Now, whether Steve Borthwick can be persuaded to do that,
07:43 that's gonna be really interesting.
07:45 And the other key point is,
07:46 I think it does make a difference
07:47 if England have played Wales.
07:49 There's a chance that they might well have decided
07:53 that for that sort of tactical game
07:55 and the naps that Gatsby bring,
07:56 that they'd want a different sort of fullback.
07:59 If they end up playing Fiji,
08:00 and they are gonna have to score tries,
08:02 I can't see, as good as Ford is in drop goal
08:04 in over Fiji, they're gonna have to go out
08:06 and play a bit of rugby and score some tries.
08:08 Maybe that does open the door a little bit
08:10 for Henry Arundel and Smith to come in
08:12 and give them that attacking edge that they have lacked.
08:15 But obviously we know Borthwick's template.
08:17 We know what his gut reaction is,
08:19 what he's built with Leicester.
08:20 It is set piece, it is kick and chase.
08:22 It's not played with too much ball.
08:23 I'm not sure how much he can do that against Fiji
08:25 if that is the quarterfinal opponent.
08:28 - Yeah, I mean, looking way ahead,
08:30 we imagine both England and Wales,
08:33 just on how the odds might look going into these games.
08:38 We imagine Wales and England's tournaments
08:41 are probably gonna come to an end in the semifinals.
08:44 But God, could you imagine after how we thought
08:46 this tournament was gonna start,
08:47 if we ended up well Wales, England final,
08:49 wouldn't that be, wouldn't that be something?
08:51 But yeah, I mean, it's probably that full, isn't it, James?
08:56 I think there's still not enough from Wales yet,
08:59 as great as that one individual performance was.
09:03 - But we'll get on Scotland in a minute,
09:04 but the most likely opponent for the semis,
09:07 if they do get past, well,
09:09 Wales will be heavy favorites for their quarterfinal,
09:11 'cause they're gonna top the group
09:12 and it's gonna be Japan and Argentina.
09:14 Japan, not the team they were, we know that.
09:16 Argentina, really not, not impressing at all.
09:20 Outside chance, it could be Samoa, but it's unlikely.
09:23 Wales will be a huge disappointment
09:26 on the back of that Australia result
09:28 if Wales don't come through that quarterfinal.
09:30 But I mean, is there any, has that result against Australia
09:33 given you any hope that Wales could potentially challenge
09:37 either Ireland or the All Blacks,
09:38 who are their most likely semifinal opponents
09:42 if they get there?
09:43 - I'm more confident now than I was
09:46 of Wales being competitive enough.
09:47 - I'm not saying they won't.
09:49 - No, no, it's not.
09:50 I think coming into this tournament,
09:53 there was no doubt in my mind that Ireland, France,
09:56 New Zealand were better than Wales,
09:58 and they still are, that fact still remains.
09:59 But I think Wales give them a game now,
10:03 and are competitive and make things hard.
10:05 And in Test match rugby, sometimes it falls on,
10:09 it falls on a refereeing decision that can be quite tight,
10:11 and you get a bit of luck here and there.
10:13 I think Wales could win a semifinal with a bit of luck,
10:18 or if Ireland had an off day.
10:21 But I think the Irish are so supremely good,
10:25 and we saw that against South Africa now,
10:27 and what that result will do for them
10:29 in terms of confidence and belief,
10:32 that yeah, a Wales-Ireland semifinal,
10:35 if it's played 10 times,
10:36 I think Ireland probably win nine and a half times maybe,
10:40 even after the Wales result against Australia,
10:43 which was great.
10:44 But it is with a caveat that Australia were poor.
10:48 But Wales have sort of grown into the tournament
10:51 and they're gathering momentum.
10:52 But Ireland have been growing and gathering momentum
10:57 for such a long time now,
10:58 and they've been quality for such a long time
11:00 that it would be a shock.
11:01 But that's not to discount a quarterfinal as well,
11:03 'cause it would be a very Welsh thing
11:05 to get to that quarterfinal,
11:07 and it'd be seen as fairly winnable to then miss out.
11:10 So yeah, don't look beyond that, I don't think.
11:14 But I think they're definitely promising,
11:16 promising signs for Wales.
11:17 And they've quietly gone about,
11:19 Fiji was seen as a banana skin.
11:21 There were arguably underdogs going into that game, Wales.
11:26 Yes, they got the rub of the green,
11:28 but sometimes you do get that at a Rugby World Cup.
11:32 And then they've gone and beaten Australia.
11:35 They didn't really, I know it was a second string,
11:37 but they didn't really convince against Portugal,
11:38 but suddenly they're in the quarterfinal,
11:40 which everyone, if you'd asked everyone
11:43 before the Rugby World Cup,
11:45 were Wales gonna definitely reach a quarterfinal,
11:47 it wasn't a nailed on thing.
11:48 So yeah, lots of success in this tournament so far,
11:51 but yeah, I'm quietly optimistic.
11:53 I think what Gatland is instilling
11:57 in terms of keeping the penalty count low,
11:59 discipline, tackles, making teams wear out,
12:03 I think it is good enough to get Wales to a semi, hopefully.
12:06 And then anything after that is a bonus.
12:08 - Move on to Scotland in just a second,
12:11 but before we do, let's just touch on a couple of things
12:13 I want to speak about.
12:14 First of all, Anton DuPont potentially could be missing
12:19 the rest of the tournament.
12:20 It looks like there's, the latest headlines are
12:22 that he's having a protective face mask fitted.
12:25 That could see him back, certainly in time,
12:27 you would think for the quarterfinals.
12:29 France very likely to be there, of course.
12:31 From a competitive point of view,
12:35 it's great news for whoever is gonna come up
12:37 against Ransfell, but for us as fans and neutrals,
12:41 losing the best player in the world, it's devastating,
12:45 isn't it?
12:46 And we'll have to ask, I know France got a scare
12:48 against Uruguay, but did they need to risk them
12:51 against Namibia?
12:53 Or do you think maybe there's an element of these,
12:56 you know, these supporters in Marseille,
13:00 I believe the game was, they're paying their money.
13:03 They want to see DuPont as much as we do.
13:06 - Yeah, it's hard to say.
13:08 I mean, DuPont is literally the poster boy
13:11 of this World Cup.
13:12 You know, you see TV footage of the Champs-Élysées
13:14 and his pictures everywhere.
13:16 He is the face of this World Cup.
13:18 He's the face of the France team.
13:20 Hindsight's, you know, always brilliant.
13:22 And, you know, I'm sure looking back,
13:24 that they probably wouldn't have,
13:25 Gautier wouldn't have thought about keeping him on.
13:28 Having said that, your scrum half is a protected species.
13:31 I mean, these days you're not allowed to touch your hair
13:32 on Danny Kher's perfectly manicured head these days
13:36 at the back of a rook.
13:36 So you're probably thinking of all the players
13:38 that you're gonna lose, the scrum half is the one
13:40 least likely to kind of, you know, get a smash to the face.
13:43 And it is unfortunate.
13:46 I do think it does hurt France.
13:48 Now that they've got some players coming back as well,
13:49 they've got those players coming back from injury.
13:51 And probably of all the teams, maybe bar South Africa,
13:54 you'd say France have got that depth
13:56 that they can probably accommodate it,
13:58 or certainly accommodate it far better
13:59 than say a Scotland, a Finn Russell maybe.
14:03 I think France still are, you know, a hell of a unit.
14:06 And the way that they play,
14:08 that they're such a slick operating machine that,
14:11 you know, you just drop in somebody,
14:13 one of those other, you know, scrum halves
14:14 that are also, you know, pretty decent.
14:16 They're not a Dupont.
14:17 I mean, they do lack the ability to turn a game
14:19 around a six-man to do something magical
14:21 and win a game from nothing, especially as well.
14:23 Now they've lost Antomac, who also had that ability,
14:25 you know, losing your two half-back,
14:27 your original starting half-back pings is tough,
14:29 but I think France can weather it.
14:31 And I think they have got that confidence to go forward.
14:33 And the way that they play,
14:35 the interchange of backs and forwards,
14:37 it's less reliant than they used to be,
14:39 maybe on just one guy going out as a playmaker.
14:41 - Yeah, it's an interesting point.
14:46 I would argue that France losing Dupont is so huge,
14:51 but you're right in terms of the depth they have.
14:54 They maybe don't have that depth at scrum half,
14:56 but certainly the quality they have
14:58 around the rest of the team
14:59 would be enough to see them through.
15:01 But like you say, having already lost Antomac
15:03 to lose Dupont as well would be a huge blow
15:07 to their chance of winning this tournament.
15:09 Another thing I wanted to discuss on this show,
15:12 I think it's fair to say we are guilty.
15:14 I mean, we did it earlier.
15:15 We just sort of dismissed the England result.
15:17 We are guilty of kind of only speaking about the big games.
15:21 So let's just take a moment to talk about what I think
15:24 has been the sleeper hit of the tournament so far,
15:26 in my opinion, and that's Georgia against Portugal.
15:30 'Cause what a fantastic game that was, yeah.
15:33 I love that there was effectively nothing on the line
15:36 for these two teams,
15:37 but also everything was on the line for them.
15:40 Georgia are playing to just keep the boot on the neck
15:44 of all the other tier two European nations
15:47 and Portugal have all this pride to play for.
15:51 And we ended up getting a fantastic match
15:53 and absolutely gutted to see that kick go wide at the end.
15:56 It would have got Portugal their first win of the tournament.
15:59 Did you guys watch it?
16:00 What did you think?
16:02 How brilliant was it?
16:03 - The thing to me, the key thing was just watching
16:06 the passion of the fans.
16:08 Now I know they haven't come a million miles
16:10 to come across over to France,
16:12 but there were guys in tears, you know,
16:14 the fact that that kick just kind of drifted slightly
16:17 to the side.
16:18 I think what it does show is that there is still this gap.
16:23 And if we're going to close it between the lower nations,
16:25 the emerging nations, the tier twos as it used to be called,
16:27 we have to get them playing more games.
16:29 And I think one thing that's really interesting
16:31 is that there's talk about perhaps expanding
16:33 the World Cup competition next time to add some more teams.
16:36 And if they do, one of the things they've got to do
16:38 is perhaps have a bit like a sevens
16:39 where those lower teams then drop into a plate competition
16:42 where they can play some midweek matches,
16:43 which will keep those fans around for longer,
16:46 presumably be good for the local economy
16:47 if they're sticking around drinking in the bars as well.
16:49 But it will give those other lower teams
16:51 those extra games that they need to get better and better.
16:53 But Portugal were absolutely fantastic, you know,
16:55 hats off to them to come back in the way they did.
16:58 I mean, to be fair,
16:59 they should have been completely rolled over at halftime,
17:00 but they came back, they showed some real heart.
17:03 And yeah, what's not to love about those fans
17:05 giving it their all?
17:07 - It's great for the tournament that Portugal
17:08 are being competitive as well,
17:09 because they did cause Wales some problems.
17:12 And I was, I remember feeling extremely worried at times
17:15 during that Wales-Portugal game,
17:17 although Wales got the job done in the end.
17:20 So it's really promising to see that level
17:23 of competitiveness and as Phil rightly points out,
17:25 it would be good if there was something else
17:27 on the line for them, if they played more games
17:30 and were sort of more involved in the world rugby sphere,
17:33 because it's, you know,
17:34 we only tend to talk about those tier one nations
17:36 and occasionally the tier two nations
17:40 outside of a World Cup,
17:41 do we talk about the tier two nations very often?
17:43 Probably not.
17:44 So it'd be great, it would be great to take an interest
17:47 in them in between World Cups, maybe.
17:49 - Well, of course there is,
17:50 when you say something to play for,
17:51 there is the fact that the team that finishes third
17:53 in their pool, I believe, you Phil, correct me if I'm wrong,
17:56 guarantees qualification for the next World Cup.
17:59 Obviously Portugal aren't going to,
18:02 well, technically they still could,
18:04 but I don't think Australia are quite,
18:08 or then again-
18:09 - You should say that now.
18:10 - That would be a story, that would be a story.
18:13 - I'm not going to finish that sentence.
18:14 I'm just going to move swiftly on
18:16 because we need to speak about Scotland.
18:19 Scotland against Tonga, got the job done.
18:23 There's no denying that.
18:25 Not enough in that performance to make me think
18:30 that they're going to do what they're likely going to need
18:34 to do against Ireland.
18:37 I want to say to give Romania the respect they deserve,
18:40 and I think I'm giving them enough respect to say
18:42 it'll be a huge shock if Scotland don't get
18:44 a bonus point win, just on what we've seen from Romania.
18:47 So far, they're going to need to turn out something
18:50 a lot better than what they already have
18:52 to prevent that happening.
18:54 If that happens, I know last week we weren't sure,
18:57 so I made sure to look it up.
18:58 Head-to-head is the key decider
19:01 on when teams are level on points.
19:03 So Scotland will likely need to beat Ireland
19:07 by more than seven points,
19:09 which would have them both finishing on 15,
19:11 or both finishing on 14, sorry.
19:14 Scotland would go through on the head-to-head.
19:16 There are other permutations with South Africa
19:19 still to play Tonga, but that's what it's looking like.
19:22 I don't know, I imagine you guys probably agree,
19:26 but from that South Africa game,
19:28 I am actually now a little bit more annoyed
19:31 because I think you have to show South Africa respect,
19:36 and we did that, and at the time,
19:37 I think sort of playing off their strengths
19:42 maybe wasn't the wrong call
19:43 because it prevented us getting really badly turned over.
19:46 Like I said at the time, the Creole yellow-red card
19:50 wouldn't have made any difference
19:51 because I think South Africa would have won that game
19:52 with 14 men anyway, but whether it would have encouraged
19:55 Scotland to play to their strengths
19:57 rather than playing off of South Africa's,
20:01 because the line speed of South Africa was brilliant,
20:03 and you could see Scotland knew that was coming,
20:05 and that's why they tried to play the way they did.
20:07 But I'm now thinking, like,
20:09 could we not just have gone for that match
20:11 and just seen what happened?
20:13 Because we didn't get-
20:14 - It's why Razid Rasmus is a genius
20:17 because he gets into team's head,
20:19 and whether it's the 7-1, or it's surely one,
20:22 he's gonna get an 8-0 bench just because he can,
20:25 but he gets into team's heads, and they think,
20:27 oh, we've got a front up, we've got a front up,
20:29 and don't get me wrong,
20:30 I thought Scotland looked really strong against Tonga,
20:32 and they wore some hits.
20:33 I mean, Duban Bandar-Murder was put into the middle
20:35 next week, and a couple of big hits,
20:37 and they definitely rode that.
20:39 But sometimes I think teams fall into that trap
20:41 that they have to kind of meet Paratiba South Africa.
20:44 You can't do that.
20:45 They are mutants.
20:46 They will grind you into the dust.
20:48 There's no point trying to meet them on the game line.
20:50 Yes, obviously, you have to kind of stop them,
20:53 and you have to kind of hold your scrum up,
20:55 but there's no point trying to beat them in arm wrestle.
20:57 And that really would have been Scotland's USP,
21:00 is to get Finn in the game.
21:01 I know it didn't quite click for them a couple of times.
21:03 You know, they're a little bit off in that South Africa game,
21:06 but that's the way to beat them.
21:07 And I think it's the way that, you know,
21:09 it has always set up.
21:10 Once that happened, we always licked our lips
21:12 about that final game at the pool, Scotland versus Ireland.
21:15 And it is going to be one hell of a game
21:16 because Scotland cannot afford to do anything
21:18 but go out and throw everything at it.
21:20 Because like you say, if they don't, they're going home.
21:23 - I was just going to say, they have to play their game.
21:25 They can't fall into the same trap
21:26 they did against South Africa.
21:28 Again, I didn't think it was necessarily
21:29 the worst decision in the world,
21:30 but they have to play their game.
21:32 They can't think, how are Ireland going to,
21:33 obviously there has to be a degree
21:35 of how are Ireland going to set up.
21:36 How are we going to deal with this threat?
21:37 How are we going to deal with that threat?
21:38 And what are we going to do?
21:39 Get the ball to Finn, get Sione and Hugh Jones
21:44 running the lines, the need to line.
21:45 Get Doohan van der Merwe on the ball as much as possible.
21:50 Create space for Darcy Graham.
21:52 That's how Scotland, get Blair Kinghorn
21:56 here and after high balls.
21:58 That is something that from the Tonga game
22:00 certainly has a lot of potential to cause Ireland,
22:03 listen, Ireland's back three are fantastic
22:05 under the high ball, but challenge it.
22:07 Because Blair Kinghorn's a big, strong lad.
22:09 And when he gets into full speed and he gets up,
22:14 he's so tall and stocky that he's a hard man
22:16 to beat in the air.
22:18 - I feel a bit for Scotland, Martin.
22:21 I just feel like everything this tournament
22:23 has really got against them.
22:25 They were in the wrong side of the pool.
22:26 They had an opening game against South Africa,
22:29 the last winners of the World Cup,
22:31 didn't really lay a glove on them.
22:32 Then they had to stew on that for two weeks
22:34 while everybody else was playing.
22:36 They've also got Ireland in the group.
22:38 And it all comes down to the game against Ireland.
22:41 There's the bunker, Gregor Townsend,
22:45 taking the game away from referees
22:46 at a World Cup comment as well.
22:47 And it just feels like Scotland have a really good team
22:52 and should have had a really good opportunity,
22:54 but it just feels like everything's conspired against you.
22:58 You're slightly, I don't know how that feels,
22:59 back in Scotland.
23:01 - Exactly like that.
23:03 It was one of the first things we said on this show.
23:06 The fact that the polls are drawn so early in advance,
23:09 it needs to be a year out in advance.
23:12 Absolute tops.
23:14 - Yeah, I agree.
23:15 - The only good thing from a Scotland point of view,
23:17 as I said, is the expectation will be all on Ireland.
23:20 Ireland do have that still, that chink in their armour,
23:23 the Leinster guys that still haven't,
23:25 have blown Champions Cup finals.
23:27 Scotland just need to go out and play.
23:29 And we know Scotland can do that.
23:30 We've seen Scotland score three tries
23:32 in seven or eight minutes.
23:33 So it's kind of set up for them.
23:36 There's nothing to lose.
23:37 They've just got to go out there, play that game.
23:38 And I think you're right.
23:39 If they get Duane van der Merwe,
23:41 could be Scotland's John Olomo,
23:42 just get him the ball, let him run over people,
23:44 let him run around people.
23:46 And all of a sudden you could have a hell of a game
23:48 when those little seeds start to creep into the Irish minds.
23:50 It's gonna be a great game.
23:52 (upbeat music)
23:55 (upbeat music)
23:57 you