Striking a chord in Michigan: Biden makes appeal to union, 'populist' Trump to 'anti-establishment'
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00:00 Donald Trump has been found guilty of financial fraud.
00:04 A judge in New York ruled that the former president and his adult sons exaggerated his
00:08 wealth by billions of dollars for years.
00:12 That fraud a way of getting banks to give them cheaper loans.
00:16 Now Trump is still the Republican frontrunner to get his old White House job back and he
00:21 is heading today to the battleground state of Michigan.
00:25 He's trying to get more blue collar votes from auto workers there who are currently
00:29 on strike.
00:30 Trump trying to compete with current president Joe Biden who joined the striking car workers
00:34 on the picket line Tuesday.
00:36 Biden joined United Auto Workers in Detroit making him the first sitting president to
00:41 walk a picket line.
00:43 While he was there he urged the workers to stick to their demands for a pay raise.
00:49 Wall Street didn't build the country, the middle class built the country.
00:52 We built the middle class.
00:55 That's a fact.
00:57 So let's keep going.
00:59 You deserve what you've earned and you've earned a hell of a lot more than you're getting
01:03 paid now.
01:04 Well, to talk more about this with me now, let's bring in Larry Sabato from Charlottesville
01:08 in the U.S., the founder and director of the University of Virginia Center for Politics.
01:13 Thank you for joining us.
01:14 Now, this really is a historic move on Joe Biden's part.
01:18 He's the first sitting president to go on a picket line.
01:21 Give us some context here, first of all.
01:22 Why was it so important for him to do that?
01:25 Well, it's important for political reasons.
01:28 Obviously, the election is next year.
01:31 And for Joe Biden, labor union households are a fundamental core of his coalition.
01:38 It certainly was in 2020.
01:40 And he's long been identified with unions and their agendas.
01:45 So it was important for him to go for that reason alone, but also because Donald Trump,
01:51 far more than most Republicans, has shown ability to win union votes.
01:57 He got about 40 percent of the votes from union households in both 2016 and 2020.
02:03 He did a little less well in 2020 and a little less well in our deeply divided country.
02:08 It means a lot in a state like Michigan, which is now very close, or Wisconsin or Pennsylvania.
02:16 Before we talk a bit more about that, is there any risk perhaps for him or for a president
02:20 to align himself so closely with the union?
02:23 I mean, again, after all, Biden's the first president to have done so.
02:27 Yes.
02:28 Traditionally, presidents kept hands off and they tried to be even handed between business
02:35 and labor union interest.
02:37 But you can't do that anymore.
02:39 You know, today's politics, at least in this country, is about taking sides.
02:43 You have to take a side.
02:45 He decided to do it.
02:46 It's obvious which side he took.
02:48 Most of the business executives will end up being for the Republican nominee, although
02:53 less so if it's Trump.
02:55 But if it's a normal Republican nominee, they side with the Republican and they normally
03:00 give most of their money to the Republican side as well.
03:03 So Donald Trump also going to Michigan later today.
03:06 He has always been very anti-union.
03:08 Is he trying to capitalize politically now on this strike in any way?
03:14 Absolutely.
03:15 He's anti-union in the sense that he sides with business.
03:18 Obviously, he's associated with business and he made his fortune in business, whatever
03:23 that fortune actually is.
03:25 But what's significant is he knows that his populism is what has attracted that 40 percent
03:32 of union households.
03:34 His base is non-college whites, non-college whites, and they're heavily concentrated among
03:41 unions.
03:42 He's got more men than women, but he wins both men and women in that category.
03:47 So he's going to talk about the populist issues, the evil of the establishment, and that will
03:52 help him to the extent that he needs to hold those voters.
03:56 Right.
03:57 So just to remind everyone, Trump lost the state of Michigan in 2020 by some 154,000
04:02 votes after he won it in 2016.
04:05 Talk to us about the importance of Michigan as a swing state in next year's election.
04:11 It's absolutely critical.
04:12 Look, we're down to at most six or eight states out of our 50.
04:18 We could call 40 to 42 or 43 of them right now.
04:22 We could fill in the blanks on the map.
04:25 But Michigan has a big packet of electoral votes, as does some of the other states that
04:31 I mentioned.
04:32 And that's where the election is going to be decided.
04:34 Georgia, Arizona, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, maybe a couple of others.
04:39 That's it.
04:41 So this this campaign stop for Trump today is coming in another news story today, as
04:45 a judge in New York found Trump and his sons guilty of fraud, exaggerating Trump's wealth
04:50 by billions of dollars for years.
04:52 I'm curious to know the effect of that on Trump's campaign, if there will be one, but
04:56 particularly on these voters you're talking about in Michigan.
05:01 I don't think it will have much effect.
05:03 It probably should have an effect.
05:05 He's been lying for at least a decade, probably much longer than that, about his net worth.
05:10 And that really matters.
05:11 He's enriched himself in ways at the expense of others by exaggerating these dollar figures.
05:18 But look at what's happened.
05:20 He's been criminally indicted on 92 felony counts in four cases.
05:27 And it's not only not had an effect, not reduced his support, it's increased it within the
05:33 Republican Party, not the general electorate.
05:36 I think once the general electorate focuses on Trump v. Biden, you may see some movement
05:41 in the polls.
05:42 But you don't right now.
05:44 And there's a Republican debate tonight with the key candidates except for Trump.
05:49 And it's easy to predict it isn't going to have a dramatic impact on the lineup.
05:54 I mean, it's really incredible when you think about it.
05:56 I mean, is Trump just coasting on on his image?
06:00 Is that what's keeping him to the forefront?
06:01 At some point, you would think voters would wake up and realize what's going on.
06:06 Well, he has a Teflon coating in the Republican Party because they're loyal to him.
06:12 He's the one who appointed three Supreme Court justices that overturned Roe v. Wade with
06:17 the conservative Republicans already on the court.
06:20 He is singularly responsible for that.
06:23 Well, the evangelicals are 85 percent or so Republican, conservatives who are anti-abortion
06:30 overwhelmingly 85, 90 percent Republican.
06:33 They're very grateful to Donald Trump and they're going to return that gratitude with
06:38 their votes.
06:39 Larry, just to finish up very briefly, this trip is also coming as Joe Biden himself is
06:43 facing consistently low polling numbers, particularly on his handling of economic issues.
06:49 Do you think by backing the unions, that's the right move there?
06:53 Yes, he has to do that.
06:55 He has to do far more than that.
06:57 He has to convince not just working Americans, but middle class Americans with a college
07:03 degree that he has improved the economy and he will continue to improve the economy.
07:08 He's losing that debate, even though he has the facts for the most part behind him.
07:13 Facts don't mean anything anymore unless you can convince people.
07:17 And Biden has a long way to go on that score.
07:19 All right, Larry, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us.
07:23 Larry Sabato speaking to me there from Charlottesville.
07:26 Well, our--