The queen of true crime is back with a new tour about killer cults.
TV psychologist, Emma Kenny, shares her expert knowledge to address some of the myths about cults and how they target victims.
Lucinda Herbert interviews Emma, ahead of her opening show at Blackpool Grand.
TV psychologist, Emma Kenny, shares her expert knowledge to address some of the myths about cults and how they target victims.
Lucinda Herbert interviews Emma, ahead of her opening show at Blackpool Grand.
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00:00 I think that a lot of people just can't blanch, always think to themselves, "These things
00:04 would never happen to me."
00:06 And that's the real intrigue, because most of the things that we do as intelligent, articulate
00:11 human beings, we do for the right reasons, at the right moment, for the right intent.
00:17 And that means that most things that we do are full of good intentions.
00:22 We're not actively going out of our way to find ourselves in trouble.
00:25 It's a bit like when people talk about domestically violent relationships.
00:29 No one enters a relationship which is domestically violent because it's domestically violent.
00:33 You never do that.
00:34 You enter a relationship because you're in love and you think you've got a future, and
00:37 it's great.
00:38 It's fantastic at the first instance.
00:40 It's only as time progresses, when you actually might be devoted and have real strong feelings
00:45 for that partner, that then the aggression starts.
00:48 And by then, you're all in.
00:50 So the very truth about our human behavior is it's so rare that there's any malevolence
00:55 in our actions that are intentional or problematic that are intentional.
00:59 It's where we arrive in the end.
01:01 And to some degree, that's what this particular tour is about.
01:04 It's to really, really unpick the reality of the fabric of a cult.
01:10 As I said, whether you're somebody who might find yourself in a situation where you would
01:14 unknowingly and unwittingly join one, and of course, why people who are, like I said,
01:19 incredibly intelligent, often in great jobs, with the world at their feet in so many ways,
01:26 why would they follow some charismatic leader, sometimes to their death?
01:32 Because it's such an unusual set of events that leads you there, but one that nonetheless,
01:38 so many people could find themselves in, even though to all intents and purposes, the world
01:43 around them sees them as an individual who would never fall foul of such a situation.
01:47 Is there anything that would make somebody susceptible to joining a cult?
01:53 I think that there's a lot of myths around why people end up in cults, and I think some
01:57 of that is unhelpful, because a lot of times people will talk about the fact that they're
02:02 easy to manipulate, or they'll be oddballs, and that's just simply not true.
02:07 The last thing you want as a cult leader is somebody who cannot connect, somebody who
02:11 cannot work, somebody who isn't able to recruit others.
02:15 You want charismatic, intelligent, articulate, clever, and engaged people, because that makes
02:21 your cult better, right?
02:22 So the idea that these cult leaders are looking for fringe, yes, they'll look for vulnerability,
02:28 like anyone will, like any predator will do.
02:31 You look for vulnerability.
02:32 If you can find somebody who might be going through a difficult transitional phase, it
02:35 might be they've lost a baby, it might be they've got divorced, it might be they're
02:39 going through a grief process, or maybe they just feel like there isn't that much that
02:44 holds them to their current life, and then somebody provides them all those answers,
02:49 that's the type of person, and that's what makes it so powerful, because that means that
02:53 so many of us, in our moments of vulnerability, or searching, or even just feeling like people
03:01 don't notice us as we wish to be noticed, because that's one of the most powerful connectors.
03:06 How likely is it that the average person on the street is going to encounter this in some
03:13 way in their life?
03:14 If they are seeking, then they'll have an opportunity to encounter it.
03:18 If I'm in a scenario, walking down the street, and somebody pulls me over and says, "Listen,
03:24 life's probably great for you, but there's this opportunity to do A, B, or C," let's
03:28 see like the Scientologists do.
03:29 You know, off they go, they kind of recruit you, "Come and do this course, come and do
03:34 this, and it'll be great, and it'll be fabulous, and you'll be embraced by everybody, and it
03:37 will fill a gap," right?
03:40 It's hard not to be a little bit intrigued by that, and to think, "Well, okay, I'm not
03:45 really going to go down this path," or what can be the issue with maybe attending a few
03:49 more lessons, or a few more sessions?
03:51 And you see, that's the way it works, it's incremental.
03:54 So anybody walking down the street who may be just looking for something new, different,
04:01 interesting, expanding their mind, finding a new path, even thinking about a new career,
04:06 because bear in mind, there are a lot of life coaches out there, there are a lot of self-help
04:11 organizations out there, who it's all about, "You'll be able to do anything, just give me
04:15 this money.
04:16 You can do this course in 24 hours, and you'll be qualified in A, B, and C," and then hooking
04:21 them back in again, and again, and again.
04:24 And whenever I see that, I'm like, "Cult behavior, cult behavior, cult behavior."
04:29 And I think it's very easy for the average intelligent human, and I think that's one
04:34 of the things that I always want to impress, it's not that you are stupid, because it's
04:39 the same as I said earlier on, you get yourself in a coercive control relationship, you ain't
04:43 a stupid person, they're just very clever.
04:46 And if you don't see it coming, then how do you know that you're even there?
04:50 And that's the key.
04:53 Killer Cult starts at Blackpool, obviously, at the Grand, which is lovely, because it's
04:59 such an amazing place to actually start a tour.
05:02 So that's the first night when I'm in Blackpool.
05:05 It's a bit terrifying, because the first night, you always are aware that you've never really
05:09 been able to put it into practice until that moment.
05:13 So I have this fear that I'll be there three days after starting, because there's so much
05:16 to pack into a two-hour show that people might not be allowed to leave.
05:20 It's as simple as that.