JonBenét's half-brother speaks out with the latest on the hunt for his sister's killer. Will DNA finally reveal who committed this horrible crime? Plus, learn about the people who have dedicated their lives to solving this cold case and the new information they want you to see.
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00:00 This is one of the most infamous crime scenes of all time.
00:04 The home of John Benet Ramsey.
00:07 You've all seen this house on TV for 25 years.
00:10 But how much do you actually know
00:11 what happened inside this home
00:13 on the night of December 25th, 1996?
00:17 John Benet's half brother is here
00:19 with the latest on the hunt for her killer.
00:21 Will DNA finally reveal who committed this horrible crime?
00:24 Plus, the people who have dedicated their lives
00:27 to solving this cold case have new information
00:30 that they want you to see.
00:31 And I promise you, after today,
00:33 you'll never look at the John Benet Ramsey case
00:35 the same way ever again.
00:37 Police!
00:41 What's going on?
00:42 (beep)
00:43 What's going on there, ma'am?
00:44 We have a kidnapping.
00:46 Hurry, please.
00:46 Explain to me what's going on, okay?
00:48 There, we have a, there's a note left
00:50 and our daughter's gone.
00:52 John Benet Ramsey.
00:56 The six-year-old beauty pageant queen
00:58 forever etched in our minds as the haunting face
01:01 of America's most baffling murder mystery.
01:03 It's been almost 25 years
01:06 since a rambling three-page ransom note
01:08 was found in the Ramseys' Colorado home
01:11 the morning after Christmas of 1996.
01:14 And then later, John Benet's tiny, lifeless body
01:17 discovered by her father in their basement.
01:21 At first, authorities focused on her parents,
01:23 Patsy and John, compounding the family's grief and heartache.
01:27 Though the Ramseys maintained their innocence,
01:29 it wasn't until 2008 that they were finally exonerated.
01:33 Two years after, Patsy lost her battle to ovarian cancer
01:37 at the age of 49.
01:39 Despite decades of extensive investigations
01:42 and John Ramsey's continued efforts to search for answers,
01:46 the six-year-old's gruesome murder
01:47 remains unsolved to this day.
01:49 Do you believe the killer of your daughter, John Benet,
01:53 is still out there?
01:54 I do.
01:55 I mean, he could be dead, I don't know,
01:57 but yeah, he's not been caught.
01:59 And, you know, the real fear is that he's done this again.
02:04 I don't know.
02:06 But this is an evil, evil person.
02:10 Now, John Benet's half-brother, John Andrew,
02:14 carries the torch to find her killer.
02:16 With continued DNA testing
02:18 and a narrowing list of potential suspects,
02:21 the family believes they're closer than ever
02:23 to finding justice for John Benet.
02:25 John Benet's half-brother, John Andrew Ramsey,
02:31 joins us now exclusively.
02:33 John Andrew, you were only 20 years old
02:35 when your little sister was murdered.
02:37 What do you remember most about John Benet?
02:39 Yeah, you know, I think it's important to remember
02:42 that John Benet was a six-year-old kindergartner
02:46 with classmates and friends.
02:49 She enjoyed playing with her older brother, Burke,
02:53 and the neighborhood kids, and riding bikes around,
02:56 and, you know, just a regular kid.
02:59 Yeah, everything seemed normal,
03:02 but once this horrible murder occurred,
03:05 there was a media storm that followed you
03:07 and your family everywhere.
03:08 The press, I understand, really made things quite bad.
03:12 Can you describe a little bit of that to us?
03:15 Yeah, you know, for context,
03:17 you know, in 1996, '97, '98,
03:22 I mean, this was the height of tabloid media.
03:25 You know, Princess Diana, of course,
03:27 was killed around this time,
03:31 in part because of the tabloid press.
03:33 So they were vicious.
03:34 You know, they hid in trees and bushes,
03:36 dug through our garbage, followed us around town.
03:40 You know, it was certainly a distraction
03:43 and a circus that followed.
03:46 Sally Jaminet's mother, Patsy, your stepmom,
03:48 passed away two years before your family was exonerated
03:51 by the district attorney's office, thanks to DNA evidence.
03:54 So how hard has it been to see Patsy and your dad
03:59 live under the cloud of suspicion for all those years?
04:02 Yeah, it's maddening,
04:05 mostly because all of that time,
04:09 and resources, and energy that was for naught.
04:15 It was wasted.
04:16 It should have been spent looking for the killer of Jaminet,
04:20 investigating and following the facts of the case,
04:24 but unfortunately it was time wasted.
04:27 I mean, it's just the very reason we're here today,
04:29 where we are, and that this killer has not been caught
04:32 because of that time wasted.
04:34 And it continues, right?
04:35 Despite the existence of DNA from a man
04:37 not related to your family being found
04:39 in three different places on Jaminet,
04:42 in 2016, there was a theory presented
04:44 that your half-brother, Burke,
04:46 who was only nine at the time,
04:47 was somehow responsible for this.
04:48 So, John Andrew, how hard was that for him
04:51 and for the rest of the family?
04:53 Yeah, you know, Burke is a smart and kind person,
04:58 and he's handled this incredible ordeal
05:02 with an amazing amount of grace and poise.
05:07 But speaking as his older brother,
05:09 and seeing what he's been through,
05:11 and hearing these shameless accusations
05:14 that aren't based in truth or fact is hurtful.
05:18 The Boulder police themselves,
05:19 the Boulder District Attorney have said,
05:23 almost from day one, that Burke is not a suspect
05:26 and had nothing to do with this crime.
05:28 You know, Burke was a nine-year-old little boy,
05:30 and it's just heartbreaking to see what he's been through.
05:34 When your dad was here on this show,
05:35 I was very moved by what he said,
05:38 that the reason he kept motivated to find the truth,
05:41 beyond just justice for Jaminet.
05:43 Take a listen.
05:45 You know, there was a time when I felt like,
05:47 "You tell me who did this, and we won't need a trial.
05:51 I'll take care of it."
05:54 But then I realized, "Well, that makes me a bad person, too.
05:58 That's not right."
06:00 I'd like it to be brought to a conclusion
06:03 for the sake of my grandchildren,
06:05 for the sake of my children,
06:08 so there's clarity in that for them.
06:14 -John Andrew, your dad is in his late 70s now.
06:16 What would it mean to him if Jaminet's killer
06:18 was finally caught?
06:21 -Yeah, it's a complex question in that, by catching the killer,
06:25 we're inviting additional trauma into our lives, right?
06:28 We're gonna have to live through a trial and the publicity
06:31 and the storm that follows.
06:33 But the family's dedicated to the truth
06:36 and dedicated to getting justice for Jaminet.
06:38 We will pursue this to the end of the Earth
06:42 to get to the truth and to find the killer.
06:45 -Right. Coming up, could modern DNA advances
06:47 finally identify Jaminet's killer?
06:49 Her half-brother, John Andrew, has the latest.
06:52 I am back with Jaminet Ramsey's half-brother, John Andrew.
06:56 There are people who have dedicated their lives
06:58 to helping your family find out
06:59 what really happened to your sister.
07:01 Do you believe in your heart
07:03 that this cold case can finally be solved?
07:07 -Absolutely.
07:07 And I'm not a particularly optimistic person in life.
07:11 I'm a data-driven guy.
07:13 When I look at this case,
07:14 I see a mountain of evidence that we have.
07:17 I see that we're in this golden age of forensic science,
07:21 that we can apply new and advanced technologies
07:24 to finally solve this case.
07:25 So I'm very optimistic.
07:28 -Well, speaking of golden, after the Golden State killer
07:30 was identified using genetic genealogy,
07:32 I know your dad was very hopeful that the technique
07:34 could be used to identify Jaminet's killer.
07:37 I got to say, so was I.
07:39 So has the DNA found on your sister
07:41 been submitted for that type of testing yet?
07:45 -I know it's the short answer.
07:49 And when genealogy search was first pioneered,
07:54 you know, three, four years ago,
07:55 the requirements were pretty steep.
07:59 But, you know, three years down the line,
08:02 those requirements are becoming less and less rigorous.
08:07 We have labs like Othram down in Texas
08:10 who's doing amazing work with very degraded samples
08:16 and mixtures and building out full genealogy profiles.
08:19 And the second thing to consider, too, Dr.
08:21 Oz, is that genealogy search is certainly the holy grail
08:26 and what we all want to strive for,
08:28 but there's lots and lots of new technologies
08:31 that will widen the net and allow us to leverage the DNA
08:35 that was found on Jaminet's body to find the killer, right?
08:38 Things like familial testing,
08:42 probolastic genotyping and refining the profile
08:46 should all be evaluated and used to find the killer.
08:50 -My goodness, you've become an expert in this area,
08:52 and that's surprising. -Unfortunately.
08:54 -So, touch DNA is a concept
08:56 that people have gotten familiar with.
08:57 It's often referred to as trace DNA technology,
09:01 and that's how authorities found evidence of a man
09:03 not related to your family on Jaminet's leggings in 2008.
09:08 You made the argument, which I completely understand,
09:11 that the handle of the suitcase that was probably used
09:13 in the murderer's escape should be tested the same way.
09:18 -Right, so when this crime occurred in 1996,
09:21 our understanding and our use of DNA
09:23 was really early on in its infancy,
09:26 and now here we are in 2021,
09:29 and the way a crime scene is evaluated is much different.
09:34 So we really need to think about where all did the killer
09:37 interact with Jaminet as well as the crime scene itself.
09:41 So the suitcase is a prime example of one item.
09:44 We know the killer interacted with that suitcase,
09:47 and it should be tested, and there's many,
09:49 many more items from the crime scene
09:52 that should be tested by 2021 standards.
09:55 -Well, as far as you know, all that said,
09:57 has the Boulder Police Department
09:58 had any of these more modern DNA tests done?
10:02 -We've had limited to no updates
10:09 from the Boulder Police Department, unfortunately.
10:11 All I can go by is I have conversations
10:15 with these private labs that are able to use
10:19 the latest technologies,
10:21 and they're not talking to the Boulder Police.
10:23 So it's safe to assume the police are not doing anything.
10:27 -But, John Andrew, does that infuriate you,
10:29 that you've got technology racing ahead,
10:31 but it doesn't seem like the Boulder Police Department
10:34 is staying up with it? I get it.
10:35 I mean, they got a bunch of other things
10:36 they're dealing with that are current issues,
10:38 but this is, I think, and I agree with you,
10:41 a solvable crime if we use technology
10:43 that we can use in other cases.
10:46 -It's entirely maddening, and, Dr. Oz,
10:50 I wouldn't be here on your show
10:52 if I had confidence in the police to do their job.
10:55 Unfortunately, we've been put in a position
10:58 of having to fight for justice for JonBenet.
11:00 It's unfortunate. We can use technology.
11:03 This case can be solved, and it should be solved.
11:06 -Well, I'm glad you came here for that reason
11:07 because I have the same passion.
11:09 Coming up, John Andrew reveals why he thinks JonBenet's killer
11:12 may have been in his family's house weeks before her murder
11:15 and his message for the person responsible
11:17 for this unthinkable crime.
11:20 We're back with new updates on the investigation
11:22 into JonBenet Ramsey's murder.
11:24 Her half-brother, John Andrew, is with us today.
11:26 The daughter of famed detective Lou Smit
11:28 will be here in a minute revealing new information
11:30 about her list of suspects.
11:32 Do you believe JonBenet's killer is on that list?
11:37 -I think there's a very good likelihood
11:39 the name is on that list.
11:41 I think it's very plausible that somebody called in in the days
11:46 and the weeks following JonBenet's murder
11:49 and gave that piece of information that we need
11:52 or that name that needs to be pursued.
11:56 -So, today, we're gonna be giving viewers
11:57 a detailed look at the crime scene,
11:59 I mean, really precisely understanding what went down
12:02 so they can become part of the puzzle-solving team.
12:04 Your dad bought the house in 1991,
12:07 five years before this tragedy.
12:09 What stands out to you about this house now?
12:14 -Well, you know, it's a lovely house
12:16 and a lot of good memories there.
12:19 But I think it's important to people to consider that,
12:23 you know, this was a 1920s Tudor home from the front
12:27 and then in the back was a massive addition,
12:30 three stories.
12:32 Originally, when we bought it, it had an elevator.
12:35 And so this was a big, rambling house that had lots of rooms.
12:41 The basement was cut up,
12:43 lots of different rooms down in the basement.
12:46 Yeah, it was a complicated house.
12:48 -Which I think explains some of the confusion
12:51 and lost opportunity when not all of it was explored
12:54 at the time of your sister's murder.
12:56 John, do you believe it's possible
12:58 the killer was in your family's house weeks
13:01 or at least days before John Bonet's murder?
13:05 -Yeah, I think it's totally plausible
13:07 that this killer stalked our family,
13:10 entered the home when we weren't there.
13:12 Dad and Patsy, you know, traveled frequently.
13:15 The house was, you know, not well secured.
13:20 And, you know, I can speak firsthand
13:22 in seeing pry marks in the rear door
13:25 at one point prior to John Bonet's death
13:27 when I was visiting the home.
13:30 -So this killer was probably obsessed with your family,
13:34 maybe your sister.
13:36 -I think so.
13:37 I think you can see that in the writings,
13:39 in the ransom note themselves,
13:41 that this person was driven by fantasy.
13:45 -So what's your message to the person
13:47 who murdered your half-sister?
13:49 I'm sure they're following this case as carefully as you are.
13:53 -Yeah, we're coming for you, you know?
13:56 You think you're smart, but you're not.
13:57 We're coming.
14:00 -Well, I've got confidence in you, John Andrew,
14:02 and the rest of your family.
14:04 Good luck in everything you're doing.
14:05 I'll do my best to support you, as well.
14:08 -Oh, I appreciate the opportunity.
14:09 Thank you.
14:09 -And best regards to your father.
14:11 -Thank you. -We'll be right back.
14:13 -There's a scream.
14:14 [ Screaming ]
14:20 The scream was heard by one of the neighbors
14:23 150 feet across the street from the ranch.
14:26 She said it was the most terrifying child's scream
14:30 I've ever heard.
14:34 Now, how could she hear it but not the parents?
14:40 -There was famed detective Lou Smith
14:41 raising a critical question
14:43 about the night John Bonet was killed.
14:45 His unrelenting investigation of this case
14:47 is featured in the "Discovery+" documentary,
14:49 "John Bonet Ramsey -- What Really Happened?"
14:52 Another person who was dedicated to solving this murder
14:54 is private investigator John St.
14:56 Augustine, who joins us now.
14:58 And, John, before we talk about the scream,
15:00 let's walk through this crime scene,
15:02 'cause you've been intimately involved with this case.
15:04 So where were John Bonet's parents' rooms on this model?
15:08 -So on that model -- on that model --
15:10 excuse me, Dr. Oz -- would be the entire third floor.
15:14 So right under your hand there would be the third floor.
15:17 Right below that, the second floor
15:19 would be where John Bonet Ramsey's room would be.
15:21 In fact, that specific window right there,
15:24 there was actually a patio that was there for John Bonet's room.
15:29 Burke's room was also on the second floor,
15:31 on the opposite side of the house.
15:33 And then you have the main level
15:35 and then a basement level, as well.
15:37 -So this main level, if I understand correctly,
15:39 is where the ransom note was found, right?
15:42 -Correct. So, as you --
15:43 Actually, where you're at right now, Dr. Oz,
15:45 if you walk through that door
15:47 that's right in front of you there,
15:49 as you walk in, about -- probably about 15, 20 feet,
15:53 there's a spiral staircase.
15:55 And it's on that spiral staircase
15:56 that led to the second floor and to the third floor
15:59 that you would have seen that ransom note.
16:02 It would have been on that first floor on the stairs.
16:04 -Right. That's that three-page rambling note
16:06 that was found in -- And that, again, was --
16:08 But before 6 a.m. that day, it was placed there.
16:11 But it wasn't until hours later,
16:14 after the police had been there for a long time,
16:16 that John Bonet's body was discovered
16:18 in this corner of the basement by her father.
16:22 So you all see the layout now.
16:25 Now, she'd been brutally tortured,
16:26 sexually assaulted, and ultimately murdered.
16:29 John, how big a problem is it that the police
16:31 did not find her down in this corner until so much later?
16:36 -Well, you know, I think that's why we are where we are right now
16:39 with the case being unsolved,
16:41 is that, you know, law enforcement had the opportunity
16:45 to search that entire home,
16:47 failed to open one of the doors where she was behind.
16:51 And, actually, they made even a bigger mistake
16:54 by having the father, Mr. Ramsey,
16:58 go look for things out of the ordinary,
17:00 at which point he then discovers his little girl.
17:03 -I just cannot imagine what that was like.
17:05 So you worked with Detective Lou Smit
17:07 when he first came on the case.
17:09 You got very intimate and understood these issues.
17:11 What did he uncover about the scream
17:14 heard by the neighbor 150 feet across the street?
17:17 Remember, there's a street here,
17:18 so the neighbor's house is over here.
17:20 So there's a 150-feet distance here.
17:23 How is it possible that this little girl,
17:25 whose body is here, and this is where she was left,
17:28 she may have been murdered here, as well.
17:30 How is it possible that she was murdered, screamed,
17:33 and that wasn't heard several floors up
17:36 where her parents were,
17:37 but rather by someone across the street?
17:40 -Yeah, first, we have to understand, right,
17:42 that there's three floors above this particular basement.
17:46 And when the Ramseys did that expansion to the third floor,
17:50 there was actually some soundproofing
17:52 that went into that addition, that remodeling.
17:55 Now, when you look back at that model, Dr. Oz,
17:59 just on the other side of that wall where her body was found,
18:02 so if you just go on the other side of that,
18:04 there's actually a furnace room or a boiler
18:07 that's just on the other side of that room.
18:10 Right above where you're pointing with that red stick
18:12 is actually a pipe.
18:14 And what happened is there was probably something
18:17 that happened to JonBenet in this particular area,
18:19 and as a result of that, she obviously had screamed
18:23 because the neighbor across the street heard that scream,
18:26 and the reason why she heard it and the Ramseys did not hear it
18:29 is that that sound was amplified by that pipe,
18:34 and it caused that sound to go across.
18:36 So it's very plausible.
18:37 It makes a lot of sense why the neighbor across the street
18:41 was able to hear the scream and why the Ramseys were not.
18:46 -So, again, there's a ceiling here.
18:48 This is all closed off.
18:49 The noise that came from this poor little girl
18:51 would have come through this door,
18:52 into this room, up through this pipe,
18:55 and be focused right across the street
18:57 where someone would hear it.
18:58 I get it completely now that you explain it,
19:00 and it's this pipe that I think was missed by people early on.
19:03 Now, for a long time, authorities focused on the
19:05 theory that JonBenet's skull was cracked
19:07 by a member of her family,
19:09 possibly because she wet the bed, right?
19:11 And then the crime was staged to look like a botched kidnapping
19:14 to make up for this error.
19:16 So I want you to listen to the evidence
19:17 Lou Smit uncovered that disputes that theory.
19:21 -If JonBenet is killed over bedding,
19:24 and then everything is staged to make it look like a kidnapping,
19:28 then JonBenet would have been dead already.
19:32 But above the ligature marks, fingernail marks,
19:35 according to the coroner,
19:37 this isn't her killer's fingernail marks.
19:39 These are JonBenet's marks, alive,
19:43 well aware of what's happening to her.
19:47 She is struggling against her life.
19:50 -Lou's daughter, Cindy Mara, has been dedicating her life
19:53 to solving this case since her dad's tragic death in 2010.
19:56 Cindy, thanks for being here for your perseverance.
19:59 Was there any sign of bedwetting in JonBenet's room?
20:04 -My dad did not think that there was any signs
20:06 of bedwetting in her room.
20:10 He's got pictures that show her sheets, and they look dry.
20:14 They don't look like they're urine-stained.
20:15 They look dry.
20:16 And they further also look like they had been there
20:19 for some time, so it's not like they were washed
20:22 and then put back on the bed.
20:23 In fact, fibers from JonBenet's clothing
20:27 was found in the bed, which just indicated
20:29 that they hadn't washed the clothes
20:32 and then remade the bed.
20:34 -So the evidence of urine on her body when she was discovered
20:38 probably happened as she was being murdered?
20:39 Is that the thought?
20:42 -Yes.
20:43 Well, I think that she probably urinated
20:46 during the assault on her,
20:49 and that's why her underwear had urine
20:51 and they were wet and why the bed was not.
20:57 -All right, coming up, we're gonna take you
20:58 inside the Ramsey basement,
21:00 revealing the key pieces of evidence
21:02 that could finally solve JonBenet's murder.
21:04 Today, we're taking you inside the JonBenet Ramsey crime scene
21:07 to reveal the crucial evidence that could finally solve
21:10 this 25-year-old cold case.
21:12 Cindy Mara, daughter of famed detective Lou Smit,
21:14 is with us.
21:15 We're also joined now by Lou's former colleague,
21:17 retired Sheriff John Anderson.
21:19 They're leading the team that's vowed to continue
21:21 Lou's hunt for the truth.
21:22 Now, I want you all to take a closer look
21:24 at the Ramsey basement.
21:25 This is really important.
21:26 I'm just gonna orient you real quick.
21:28 Here are the stairs coming from upstairs.
21:29 Go down to the basement, right?
21:33 And these are the stairs that were used
21:34 to bring JonBenet down here.
21:35 We'll talk about how that happened in a second.
21:38 Over here is where the body was found,
21:40 in the opposite corner of the basement.
21:42 And here's this little boiler room
21:43 that we discussed a second ago.
21:44 So this is this part.
21:46 However, I want to move over to here.
21:47 This is a set of train tracks, play train tracks,
21:50 that I'll talk about in a second.
21:52 And if you go over to this corner of the basement,
21:54 so the opposite side from where her body is,
21:56 there's a window.
21:58 And there's a suitcase,
21:59 and there's a little scuff on the wall.
22:00 You see that?
22:01 Now, this suitcase may have been used
22:04 to climb out through this window.
22:06 And I'm going to explain what the story is here.
22:09 Because there was a banging sound
22:11 of metal hitting concrete that was heard
22:14 by one of the people living in that neighborhood,
22:16 which may have been a sound made
22:18 by this grate being moved or placed back.
22:21 So conceptually, the perpetrator
22:23 may have come through this window,
22:25 entered the house here, walked around,
22:27 gone up those stairs, done all the damage,
22:30 and perhaps come back, stepped on the suitcase,
22:32 and escaped through this window,
22:33 closing this grate behind them.
22:36 So Jon, you've worked in law enforcement for 40 years.
22:39 How often does the intruder enter and exit a home
22:42 in the same location?
22:43 - Far and away, the majority of cases.
22:45 Whenever there's a burglary,
22:46 the suspect's comfortable and knows the way
22:49 that they entered the crime scene,
22:51 the residence, or business.
22:53 And it's almost without exception,
22:55 their preferred method of exit.
22:57 - And walk me through this whole argument
22:58 about the lack of tracks in the snow.
23:00 I've seen pictures of the front of the house.
23:02 There's about an inch of snow there.
23:03 You would think you'd have steps in that snow.
23:06 - Right, Dr. Oz.
23:07 And this has been one of the misperceptions
23:09 from the very beginning.
23:10 And it's one thing to say,
23:11 and it drove my former homicide partner,
23:13 Lou Smith, crazy.
23:15 Is people would just look at the front of the house
23:18 with the snow and the candy canes and all of that.
23:20 But Lou said right from the beginning,
23:22 when you go around the back of the house
23:23 where that window was broken,
23:25 it was clearly used to enter that home.
23:29 It could be used.
23:30 So there was no snow.
23:32 And the picture you're showing right now
23:33 shows how the back of the house,
23:36 where it was more sunny or whatever,
23:38 there was no snow there to leave anything around.
23:41 Leave any fingerprints.
23:43 - Yeah, it makes sense now that I see this.
23:45 Great, I'll come back to that in a second.
23:46 Cindy, how could have an intruder gotten into the house,
23:50 gone up the stairs, gotten JonBenet from the second floor
23:53 without waking her parents?
23:55 - Well, my dad thought that he was at the,
24:01 first of all, that he had been there
24:02 while the Rangers were gone that evening.
24:04 So he had plenty of time just to kind of look around
24:06 and see where he wanted to hide.
24:08 My dad's theory was that the intruder
24:12 possibly was in the guest bedroom.
24:14 And when everybody went to sleep,
24:15 he went into JonBenet's room
24:17 and possibly even at that point, stun gunned her.
24:20 We don't know, but he was able to restrain her.
24:25 And my dad believes then take her down into the basement
24:28 in an attempt to get her out that window.
24:30 - So let me just go back to this issue
24:32 of whether a stun gun was used.
24:34 Some have suggested that the marks on JonBenet's body,
24:37 I'm gonna show them to you now,
24:38 were caused by the ends of the model train tracks
24:41 found in the basement.
24:43 They're over here that I mentioned them very briefly before.
24:45 They're sort of on the way anywhere you go in that basement.
24:48 So it's true that train tracks
24:50 do have little sharp edges on them.
24:51 So Jon, what have you uncovered about that possibility?
24:54 - Our team's done some extensive analysis
24:58 with the train tracks
24:59 and Lou did a lot of work on the stun gun.
25:02 And what you'll be able to tell from the stun gun
25:05 is it left two triangular shaped marks or wounds
25:09 on the victim's body, what we're seeing here,
25:13 both on her back and on the cheek.
25:15 And what we've been able to determine
25:18 is the distance between those burns is 3.5 centimeters,
25:23 which is consistent with an old gauge model train track.
25:27 However, you can see from this photo,
25:30 those train tracks are, the ends of them are circular.
25:33 They couldn't leave a rectangular mark.
25:35 And that's why we're confident that the train tracks
25:38 were not used to leave these marks on the body.
25:40 - In fact, those marks look almost rectangular, square,
25:44 right, so they're more consistent with a stun gun
25:47 'cause that's what the tip of a stun gun probe looks like.
25:50 So once Jon Benet was brought down to the basement,
25:53 I'm gonna go back down to this exit space.
25:55 There is a suitcase, right, that's found by the window.
25:58 It becomes even more significant.
26:00 Yes, it's possible they may have stepped out
26:02 of that house using that suitcase.
26:04 Sydney, what did your dad find in this suitcase?
26:06 - There was a duvet and a sham
26:09 that was found in the suitcase.
26:12 And they found that there were fibers
26:14 from the duvet and sham on Jon Benet's body,
26:19 on her shirt, on the front and back of her shirt,
26:21 on her wrist ligatures, in her vaginal area,
26:25 and in the body bag.
26:27 So that led him to believe that Jon Benet
26:30 had been put in that suitcase possibly
26:32 to get her out of that window,
26:34 and that's how they were gonna do it.
26:36 - But that suitcase wouldn't fit through the window,
26:38 which is intriguing 'cause it's possible
26:40 they were the kidnapper,
26:42 initially started as a kidnapping,
26:43 was trying to put the child in a suitcase,
26:45 couldn't get the suitcase through the window.
26:48 Something else happened, and if he failed
26:50 in getting her outside the house,
26:52 it might explain why he then took her over here
26:55 to the storage room, right, from over there,
26:57 back over here to the storage room,
26:59 where she was tortured, sexually assaulted, and murdered.
27:04 And next to her body, authorities found a print
27:07 from a high-tech branded boot, right there.
27:10 Jon, have authorities ever been able
27:12 to determine who owned these boots?
27:14 - No, they have not,
27:16 and that was really important for Lou,
27:18 because none of the family had high-tech boots.
27:22 So he believed that it's possible
27:24 the suspect left that footprint next to the body.
27:28 - And what about the packing peanuts,
27:30 this little white thing you see here,
27:31 and some of the leaves around there?
27:33 How did they presumably get into this room?
27:36 Because this is not a room that's exposed to the outside.
27:39 Cindy?
27:40 - Yeah, my dad picked up on that,
27:43 because his thought as to how the intruder got in
27:47 was through that window well that was two rooms away
27:50 from where Jon Benet's body was found.
27:52 And there's just no way,
27:54 they found what was appeared to be a packing peanut,
27:58 and also a leaf, you know, a brown leaf.
28:02 And those were consistent with what my dad found
28:05 as disturbance in the window well
28:07 that he thought the intruder entered into.
28:09 - So it's a theory, but it is consistent.
28:12 Pulled, this well is pulled off,
28:13 the intruder picks up some leaves
28:15 and a white peanut from this window well.
28:17 There's actually, the area is cleared out by that,
28:19 comes through here, has his tools,
28:22 and his escape device here, suitcase,
28:26 has access to lots of other things in this basement.
28:28 And so you begin to see how the puzzle pieces
28:30 are coming together.
28:32 So coming up, why what you don't see in this basement
28:35 is just as important as what was found here,
28:38 and how you can help solve this crime
28:40 from your living room.
28:41 Stay with us.
28:42 We're back bringing you the latest
28:43 on Jon Benet Ramsey's unsolved murder.
28:45 Now just as important as everything we have shown you
28:47 in this basement, right, is what wasn't found at the scene.
28:51 'Cause there was no stun gun,
28:53 there was no high-tech branded boots
28:55 that could be used to track the body.
28:57 There was no duct tape that was used,
28:59 you know, that could match what was used
29:01 on Jon Benet's mouth.
29:02 And most chillingly,
29:04 a broken piece of a paintbrush was never found.
29:07 Jon, explain why that paintbrush clue is so significant.
29:10 - Lou thought that that was critical
29:13 because the garage was fashioned
29:16 at the site where the crime occurred.
29:19 And the paintbrush was broken into three pieces.
29:22 One piece used to fashion the garage,
29:25 another piece was at the scene,
29:27 possibly used in the sexual assault of the child,
29:30 but that third piece was missing.
29:32 And what we know from criminal investigations
29:34 is that a suspect often will leave something at the scene
29:38 or take something with them.
29:40 And they may have taken that paintbrush,
29:43 of course they could get rid of it,
29:44 but the DNA will remain the same.
29:48 - So again, the garage was probably the murder weapon,
29:51 right, they put the rope around the piece of the paintbrush
29:53 and they had two other pieces that you're pointing out
29:55 'cause it should be a big clue.
29:57 And there was also someone touched that garage,
29:58 touched, someone touched this child.
30:00 And well before his death in 2010,
30:02 Detective Lou Smit was sure that DNA would be the key
30:05 to solving Jon Benet's murder.
30:07 Take a listen.
30:08 - The killer left behind, I believe, part of his DNA.
30:13 From the crotch of the victim's panties,
30:17 two spots of blood containing a mixture of DNA,
30:20 the victim being one source and the other a male.
30:24 - So far authorities have found male DNA
30:29 that does not match any member of the Ramsey family
30:32 in three places, on the Jon Benet's fingers, nails,
30:36 right there you see her hands light up,
30:37 on her underwear, and on the long Jon leggings
30:41 that she wore that night.
30:42 So Cindy, your father left behind
30:44 a meticulously organized document
30:46 of the most important information from his investigation,
30:49 including a report on the unidentified male's DNA.
30:52 Now I'm sure a lot of people watching are wondering
30:54 why we just can't submit that for genetic genealogy test
30:58 and just do it yourself.
30:59 But it's not that simple, I understand.
31:01 - It's not.
31:03 I mean, we would be all over that if we could do it,
31:06 but that requires actual DNA.
31:08 So the method that they test DNA under
31:13 for genealogy purposes is different
31:15 than what the way it was tested under the long Jon.
31:19 So one is called STR testing
31:21 and the other is called SNP testing.
31:23 So we would actually have to have actual DNA
31:26 in order to submit it for the SNP testing
31:27 that would be necessary to do the genealogy research.
31:31 - Cindy, I should point out, has a GoFundMe page
31:33 where they raise money to fund their continued search
31:35 for justice 'cause it is expensive.
31:37 And they tell us that they've offered to use that money
31:40 to pay for any new DNA testing
31:42 that the Boulder Police Department needs help to get done.
31:45 Jon, it's a very generous offer.
31:47 You're an experienced member of the force.
31:49 What was their response?
31:50 - They said nothing.
31:52 They didn't accept our offer.
31:54 We offer to pay for any DNA testing.
31:56 And so far that's not happened.
31:59 - So we actually reached out ourselves
32:01 to the Boulder Police Department for comment.
32:03 Here's what we were told in part.
32:04 Because this is an open and active homicide investigation,
32:07 we are unable to answer your questions
32:09 without potentially compromising the integrity
32:11 of the investigation.
32:12 When there is new information to share with our community,
32:15 we will do so.
32:16 We're gonna have their full response to drraz.com.
32:18 Sydney's dad left behind a list of suspects
32:21 that he felt very strongly about.
32:23 That he felt the killer must be on that list.
32:27 Her family's team has been researching hard,
32:30 going through every name on that list.
32:32 So Sydney, what's the latest on your hunt for the truth?
32:36 - Well, we've just continued to try and collect DNA
32:41 and test DNA, but he left us so much information,
32:45 one of which was the spreadsheet.
32:47 That was the most helpful information for us,
32:49 along with the PowerPoint presentation that he left
32:52 as all of the evidence that he found in this case.
32:55 But the spreadsheet contains the names of people
32:59 and items that he ran across in the case file
33:03 that he thought was important to the case.
33:05 So they are all lists.
33:06 There's a list of them.
33:08 He's got them in tiers.
33:09 And since he died, we've just been trying to collect DNA
33:13 from those people and just basically eliminate them
33:16 from our spreadsheet.
33:17 And so we have had success.
33:20 We have not found, not had a match,
33:22 but we've been able to eliminate some people from that list.
33:26 So now we have about 10 people that are off the list
33:29 because of DNA testing.
33:32 - Sydney, what does it cost to do that testing?
33:34 - Well, it depends on what kind of DNA we're submitting.
33:38 If it is like a buckle swab,
33:40 swab where they swab their own mouths,
33:42 it costs about $800, 800 to $1,000.
33:45 And then it just goes up from there
33:47 depending on the nature of what we've collected
33:50 that they can test, a straw or a cup or whatever it may be.
33:54 And then we've kind of just factored in,
33:56 and this is just a rough estimate,
33:59 but probably around $45,000 per person
34:03 once we do the investigation to try and find these people
34:06 and get it tested.
34:09 - Well, it's a drop in the bucket of what's been expended
34:12 to try to solve this case.
34:13 The 25th anniversary of this tragic cold case
34:15 is gonna be this Christmas.
34:17 Sydney, could John Binet's killer
34:19 finally be identified this year?
34:21 - I think so.
34:23 I think with how far we've come with DNA technology,
34:26 there's really no reason that this case can't be solved.
34:29 My dad said all along that DNA was gonna solve this case.
34:32 And I think that we're in a position now
34:35 where that can be done.
34:36 It just takes the effort and the heart
34:39 of the Boulder Police Department to do that.
34:41 - And John, why do you think the Boulder Police Department
34:43 has seemed reluctant to engage?
34:47 - I can't speak for the Boulder DA.
34:49 This is not how we would have run the investigation.
34:53 One thing that Lou brought is experience
34:57 with over 200 cases.
34:59 And right before he was brought on to the Boulder DA
35:03 District Attorney's Office investigative team,
35:05 I spoke to the then District Attorney, Alex Hunter,
35:08 and I shared with him how Lou had solved
35:10 a four-year-old Cole case of a 13-year-old little girl
35:14 who had been abducted in our community
35:16 by the name of Heather Don Church.
35:18 Very similar circumstances.
35:21 A forced entry that was dismissed,
35:23 a fingerprint left at the crime scene.
35:26 Lou had that case solved within three and a half months
35:29 after I was elected Sheriff of El Paso County,
35:31 and Lou came in and took over that case.
35:33 And what I told the District Attorney
35:35 was follow what Lou is telling you.
35:38 Follow where the evidence takes you.
35:40 Support Lou and get behind this.
35:42 And had they done that, I think this case
35:44 would have been solved 24 years ago.
35:45 - And was it ego that prevented them
35:47 from trusting an outsider?
35:49 - That's probably part of it.
35:53 I think, unfortunately, in investigations,
35:55 and this is from experience being in that case,
35:58 people in the investigative law enforcement capacity,
36:03 maybe everybody, you're looking for consensus.
36:06 And when you have somebody who stands out
36:09 and is pointing out something different
36:11 where you're not getting the consensus,
36:12 and that's what Lou was doing,
36:14 but he was doing it from a factual basis.
36:16 He was doing it from a basis of experience
36:19 and having seen 200 homicide cases.
36:23 And I think he was ostracized for not going with the flow.
36:28 It was really a tragic situation.
36:33 And unless somebody comes in and objectively
36:36 takes that case over, who has experience
36:38 and is willing to exploit that DNA,
36:41 I'm not sure it'll ever be solved.
36:42 - Well, let's make this show a call to action.
36:44 I really am, and I see all the compelling arguments
36:47 you guys are making.
36:48 It's, for the viewers, I'm sure they're looking at this
36:50 and saying, "Guys, wake up.
36:51 "It's right there in front of you."
36:53 But I've worked in large organizations.
36:55 I think, John, you've got your finger on the pulse.
36:57 I think sometimes you ignore good advice
37:00 'cause you're never a prophet in your own land.
37:01 Anyway, John, thank you very much.
37:03 Cindy, God bless your father for doing all this work
37:05 and getting this set up for you and the rest of your team.
37:08 This link on your screen is for the GoFundMe page
37:10 I've been talking about.
37:11 It's gonna help pay for those DNA tests
37:12 that Cindy's family's using to find John Bonet's killer.
37:15 Please support their important work.
37:16 We're also gonna have it on DrRoz.com.
37:18 The Discovery+ documentary, which is fantastic,
37:21 is called "John Bonet, Ramsey, What Really Happened?"
37:23 It's streaming now.
37:24 Thank you for watching.
37:25 Don't forget to subscribe and turn on notifications
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