Poisoned for Gold: Alarming health concerns recorded among residents in galamsey affected areas | The Big Stories
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00:00:00 Welcome back on the AM show. We get into our big stories now and of course we've
00:00:04 set the tone for the conversation we're about to have. Poison for Gold, the second
00:00:09 part of it, aired yesterday. Today we continue our conversation on Erastus
00:00:13 Asaridonko's Poison for Gold documentary. Now the second piece highlights how
00:00:18 health officials are reporting alarming health concerns among residents in
00:00:23 communities whose sources of water have been polluted by illegal mining. Now
00:00:28 tests conducted by health officials have revealed levels of heavy metals in the
00:00:33 rivers and water bodies casting a shadow of uncertainty over the fate of these
00:00:38 affected communities. We'd hear from some stakeholders on the show joining us for
00:00:44 a conversation. Professor Emmanuel Ahin is an applied geologist at
00:00:51 the Dean's School of Geoscience at the UENR and there's also Darrell Bossu, Deputy
00:00:59 National Director of Arosha, Ghana. Gentlemen, a very good morning to you.
00:01:04 Thank you for joining the conversation.
00:01:07 Yeah, thank you. Is that Prof? Yes, this is Professor Ahin. Okay, Darrell, are you with me?
00:01:18 Yes, good morning Benjamin, I can hear you. Great, good. And thanks for having us.
00:01:23 It's a pleasure to have both of you. So here we are. Of course in recent times
00:01:28 we've heard a number of things said about the blue economy and everything in
00:01:33 between the Vice President. We'll eventually get there but I'll start with
00:01:37 your view on the second part of Poison for Gold that we've seen and
00:01:45 here's where maybe we have to situate it forcefully. When Erastus became
00:01:50 Journalist of the Year and came into this studio, he said that for nine years
00:01:55 he had been pursuing stories on the back of Galamsey and for him the grim aspect
00:02:01 of it was that practically nothing had been done from the powers that be. From
00:02:07 this angle, how did you appreciate this second leg of the documentary? I'll start
00:02:12 with you Prof. Well, thank you very much and greetings to your honorable viewers
00:02:19 and listeners. What Erastus is saying, looking at what is pertaining in the
00:02:28 environment, I think everybody will agree with Erastus because if out of all the
00:02:37 work that he has done, if we have paid particular attention to them, we would
00:02:44 have seen differences when he started and where he has gotten to now. So I will
00:02:53 concur with Erastus' statement that nothing so far had been done.
00:03:01 Hmm. Is that a reflection basically of where we are? In fact, things have
00:03:07 deteriorated even further. What does that mean for you Prof? Well, what it meant is
00:03:15 that there is a looming danger for everybody in this particular country
00:03:22 called Ghana because our land has been polluted so much that you cannot trust
00:03:32 anything that you eat, you cannot trust anything that you drink and remember
00:03:38 what you eat, what you drink, make you who you are and if we are taking in something
00:03:45 that you don't have confidence in, out of ignorance we eat what we eat. So
00:03:51 there is a looming danger for the country called Ghana. Let me come to
00:03:59 Darryl Bosu. How do you appreciate the second leg of this documentary, Darryl?
00:04:05 Yes, thank you Benjamin and I think when we see how the devastation has been, I
00:04:15 mean this issue, the signs have been on the wall and it's sad that we need, I
00:04:23 mean we have seen this over and over again and Erastus...
00:04:28 We appear to have lost Darryl Bosu and we'll try to work the connection to get
00:04:38 him back on the line with us. It's all about the second installment of Poisoned
00:04:44 for Gold put together by our very own Erastus Asaridonko giving a second
00:04:48 layer of just how much we're killing ourselves. You know water bodies across
00:04:54 the country are being tested and the levels of mercury, arsenic among others
00:05:01 in them are simply incredibly troubling. But guess what? We are getting our water
00:05:07 sources from all of these same water bodies. It's taken quite a toll on the
00:05:13 cleansing or purification of water by the Ghana Water Company Limited. A long
00:05:17 time ago, years ago, they told us they had moved from some of the basic treatment
00:05:22 measures they were using to using polymers which are now more expensive
00:05:26 and that cost must be translated. But how did we get here and what is the way out?
00:05:32 I'll come back to you Prof. So as an applied geologist looking at where we
00:05:38 are and how far we have come on the negative stratum of things, is there
00:05:46 honestly to ask you, is there any hope? Because we've also been told by experts
00:05:52 that even if we stopped all activities in Galamsey, it could take us about a
00:05:57 hundred years, a century for our water bodies to get any semblance of what they
00:06:04 used to be. So with the water bodies the way they are, are they dead? What is
00:06:10 the state from where you sit? Yeah, thank you very much. Well, I want us to
00:06:18 broaden what we are discussing beyond just the water. Life in general
00:06:28 depends on three fundamental things. One of them is the food that we eat. The
00:06:37 other is the water that we drink. The third is the air that we breathe. All
00:06:43 these things had been imparted upon based on the activities that we do. But
00:06:49 the question that you ask, whether there is hope for us? In life, if you realize
00:06:55 you are making mistakes and you identify that mistake, that is the first solution
00:07:01 to what would have happened to you addressing it. So with a last documentary
00:07:09 that had opened our eyes on what is happening, particularly with our water, and
00:07:16 then with the food that we eat, I think there will still be a hope because we'll
00:07:23 be able to identify the hotspots of where these problems are coming. And as
00:07:32 our elders always say, prevention is better than cure. So if we can prevent
00:07:37 these things from going on, then Ghana can have the hope that you are talking
00:07:45 about. But if we allow things to go unattended to, then I'm afraid we are
00:07:52 doomed. Before the word doom, okay. But even as you say this, how are we going to
00:08:02 be able to do that? You have seen the different attempts. The Inter-Ministerial
00:08:07 Committee on Illegal Mining was set up, Operation This, Operation Gallam Stop,
00:08:10 this and that. Everything, practically everything, at least seemingly, has been
00:08:15 done. Of course, sometimes we know the real political backing is not there. It's
00:08:20 just lip service that is paid to it, and sometimes the politicians
00:08:26 themselves are mired in it. We've seen the Professor Fimpon Bwate's report, among
00:08:30 others. So what will it take, that I guess is the thrust of my question,
00:08:35 what will it take to start dealing with Gallam See? Well, very good question. If
00:08:44 you are sick, you go to the hospital. You don't go and see the mechanic. This
00:08:52 problem falls in the favor of the geoscientists. They understand the earth.
00:09:00 They know where the minerals are. So if people are doing something irresponsible,
00:09:08 those are the people that must be contacted first. It is not an issue of
00:09:15 using bow and arrow to stop what is going on. The people in the field who are
00:09:23 devastating our land and causing serious chemical contamination that nobody will
00:09:31 be able to run from, requires the expertise of geoscientists to analyze the
00:09:38 situation. What is missing in these people that are doing this? Can we guide
00:09:44 them to do the right thing? Remember, last year I made a presentation on my
00:09:50 inaugural, the Green Gold Transition, and I prescribed a number of ways that we'll
00:09:57 be able to use to stop the menace that is going on in this mineral industry. But
00:10:07 as we speak, nobody had even contacted me as to how we'll be able to address this
00:10:14 canker. So... Why do you think that is? Why do you think that is? Why do you think that is?
00:10:21 After all this work and everything, no one even bothers to get in touch with
00:10:25 you. Why do you think that is? Is it because of the lack of will? Well, I can't
00:10:31 say it's a lack of will, but I don't actually know what the problems of
00:10:37 Ghanaians are. When you have a problem and somebody brings to your doorstep
00:10:44 ways to address that problem, and then you don't go there to find out whether
00:10:52 those solutions prescribed will work for us. I really don't understand. The good
00:11:00 world that you're talking about, well, maybe something more than good world.
00:11:07 Well, let me also bring in Darryl Bossu, who rejoins the conversation. Darryl, can
00:11:16 you hear me? Yes, I can hear you Benjamin. Sorry, I went off the line. Right, right. You
00:11:23 were making a point on your initial assessment of this latest end of
00:11:27 Poisoned for Gold. Please go ahead. Yes, thank you very much. As I was saying, I was
00:11:33 actually just reflecting on the fact that this issue has been going on for a
00:11:39 long time. We have seen a river pollution rise from 2016 coming. We saw a lot of
00:11:48 actions the government promised to put in place, and all of that, but
00:11:53 unfortunately we have seen the situation getting worse and worse. I recall
00:11:58 somewhere in 2016, these issues of sea rock water shortages hit the country,
00:12:03 particularly in Akron and its home areas. We were eventually able to trace it to a
00:12:08 blockade of the Denso River and some mining activities. This continued
00:12:15 2018, 2017, more rivers were polluted, and even to the extent that the Ghana Water
00:12:21 Company Limited came out to say that we needed to be very careful because they
00:12:25 do not treat our rivers and the water we drink for heavy metals.
00:12:30 They only take away the heavy solubles, the solubles that are in there, the
00:12:35 dead sea water and all of that, but the heavy metals, they do not treat for them.
00:12:39 So that means that it doesn't matter that your water is coming out very clear, it
00:12:44 could likely be polluted with heavy metals. And this is an issue that we
00:12:49 cannot gloss over because it really shows itself in terms of the health implications. I
00:12:53 think Professor Stamperne's work has really shown to all of us that we are all
00:12:59 at risk, our food systems are at risk, and the fact that our government continues to
00:13:04 even give us more concessions, a lot of some of these mining activities happen
00:13:10 around rivers and streams, tells you that our government has not prioritized the
00:13:14 health of Ghanaians as they are very much focused on mining and just mining and
00:13:22 taking water from the land without due diligence for people's health and our food
00:13:26 systems. So it's quite unfortunate and you can agree that by what you have said
00:13:32 that it's just the business as usual. We are just interested in getting the gold
00:13:36 quick, we don't care about anything else. And that's a very unfortunate situation
00:13:40 we find ourselves in as a country. I was interacting with Prof earlier and I told
00:13:47 him, I mean we're all aware the matter has gone from bad to worse, but the point
00:13:53 is, do you foresee in the near future that it's possible to even reverse this
00:13:59 trend and what would it take? Yes, Ben, I think there is evidence to show that this can be fixed, but it will take a lot of time and it must start today, not tomorrow.
00:14:18 Because while we are really thinking about when can we start doing this, already we are all exposed. I mean take the food you eat, and I was recently
00:14:29 in a program and somewhere and one doctor was talking about doing some analysis of
00:14:34 heavy metal contamination of tilapia and all the animals like tilapia. I mean,
00:14:39 whether you like it or not, most people really like tilapia and it's one particular fish
00:14:45 species that is really susceptible to heavy metal contamination. I mean it has
00:14:50 very good functional gills and so these things can get trapped in there. So for
00:14:55 those of us who even like a lot of, who like tilapia head, we are supposed to be very
00:14:59 careful with some of these things. And it tells you that we really need to start
00:15:04 taking action right now. Already we are exposed, but I think we don't really see
00:15:11 that commitment to start dealing with this issue. It could take some seven to
00:15:17 ten years, but we have to start now. And I don't see any signs on the world now to
00:15:24 see that we are really serious about dealing with this very canker that we
00:15:29 are confronted with. Government is rather borrowing more and more money to rather,
00:15:33 they are talking to the banks to help them with financing more illegal mining
00:15:39 activities around rivers and streams. They are now creating mining hubs for
00:15:45 people, areas with freshwater bodies like the Amman-Zule in the western region.
00:15:51 Clean freshwater for the people, it's all being targeted. So it looks like there's
00:15:57 more focus and attention on getting to the gold quickly more and more than
00:16:03 really prioritizing the safeguards that the people who live on the surface of
00:16:09 the land cannot benefit from. And unfortunately I wish that we could start
00:16:13 an action now, but I don't see any commitment of this government to that effect.
00:16:18 They are rather spending more effort inviting more miners into this country.
00:16:23 It's just inviting and that's where I don't really, I would say I don't have
00:16:27 hope if we continue like this. Coming back to you Prof, Darrell, hold for me a bit.
00:16:34 In terms of the leadership standpoint, from everything we've heard over the
00:16:43 last, let's say, ten years, what more do you think can be done? You mentioned for
00:16:49 example the work you've done, it's been set aside. Professor Frimpong Boateng
00:16:55 talks about the reports he's put there. In fact, the Attorney General, whoever put
00:17:00 the report together, because we are told it wasn't the Attorney General himself,
00:17:03 but the report stated that it was empty. The report on his report stated it was
00:17:10 empty. If we have all of this happening, then you ask yourself from the
00:17:15 leadership perspective, do we need a new thinking leadership or must we do things
00:17:22 in a different way to compel leadership to act? Because in the end, leadership may
00:17:28 get what they want from governance, but how about the ordinary people? Like
00:17:32 Darrell mentioned, we all eat the tilapia and the rest. What is happening to us? The
00:17:37 consequences will be borne by us, by our children, by generations to come. So where
00:17:43 do you see us going on that front? Thank you again for this particular question.
00:17:52 Where do we go from here? What should the leadership do? Mining, as we know, started
00:17:59 centuries ago. We never had issues serious with our environment until
00:18:09 recently. So what I want to suggest probably to the leadership of the
00:18:16 country is that we need to go back and look into the basic laws that allow
00:18:23 people to get into mining. What I know is that where we have these problems from
00:18:33 generally are from the small-scale and then artisanal mining site. They are
00:18:38 mining irresponsibly. Our law indicated that 25 acres of land should be given to
00:18:48 Ghanaians to mine and here they are supposed to use the local implements,
00:18:55 pegasus, soso and shovels. And this 25 acre plot of land must be mined for about
00:19:06 five years depending on the capacity. The law did not indicate that people should
00:19:15 use heavy moving equipments. We still give 25 acre plot of land to people and
00:19:23 then they use heavy moving equipment, meaning that the impact on the land will
00:19:31 be big. The question I want to ask, have we revealed the law? So sending military
00:19:41 people to the field to get these people out, I think is not the way to go.
00:19:47 However, we need to start from the legal perspective. If we know that people are
00:19:54 no longer going to use pegasus, shovels to do this mining, whose impact
00:20:00 will be minimal and they are going to use heavy moving equipment, then that law
00:20:06 must be revealed. And if heavy moving equipment are to be used, then we need to
00:20:14 be very stringent on the environmental impact assessment that they do. They need
00:20:20 to provide reports to the Commission that regrets their activities before a
00:20:27 mining lease be given to them. And they need to bring out environmental impact
00:20:36 statement from the work that they are going to do. That if we mine, these are
00:20:41 the things that we foresee will be the impact and these are the things that we
00:20:45 are going to do. But if these people don't outline what they will do after
00:20:50 mining, then we will continue to be in this particular state. So to answer this
00:20:58 particular question before I get to the technical aspect of it, the legal regime
00:21:03 needs to be looked at. Because that is what you will prove the people with. Now
00:21:10 there is no baseline. You've given them 25 acres. You expect them to be there for
00:21:16 five years maximum. Your team will be monitoring their activities within these
00:21:23 five years. Unfortunately now they are using heavy moving equipment. So the five
00:21:28 years can be two weeks. By the time you get there, they are already gone. So how is
00:21:35 your monitoring going to be effective? So my first suggestion is that we need to
00:21:40 look at a law that allows Ghanaians to be in this particular sector of the
00:21:50 industry. Thank you. You spoke about the technical aspect. I'll come back to you
00:21:56 on that. But for you Darrell, as far as leadership is concerned, on the
00:22:00 back of the same scenes we've seen over time, it doesn't appear we're
00:22:04 gaining any ground as far as illegal mining and all of that is concerned.
00:22:11 And the devastation it is wreaking on our environment. But from the leadership
00:22:16 perspective, what more can be done now and in the coming years?
00:22:22 Well, thanks a lot. I think there has been calls on governments for a long time to
00:22:33 really, like Puff said, really look at the small scale mining regime. Just to
00:22:42 add to what Puff said, one other thing, one thing that is missing in this sector
00:22:47 is the fact that whereas we are asking the large scale mining companies, and
00:22:54 because of the extent of devastation they create to pay for the pollution they
00:23:01 cause, the small scale mining sector is not compelled by law to do that. And that
00:23:08 needs to change. The reason why people, they quickly go for the gold and walk
00:23:14 away is because there's nobody enforcing an obligation on them to restore the
00:23:21 land when they have taken it. And so they can dig today, tomorrow they finish,
00:23:27 they are gone. The community can hold them accountable, sometimes even the
00:23:31 Mineral Commission or EPA, nobody can hold them accountable. So I think that we
00:23:36 need to make it compulsory for every small scale miner. If you are no longer
00:23:41 artisanal, if you are using excavators, heavy duty equipment, you must also
00:23:48 comply with paying for the pollution that you create. And this is a polluter
00:23:54 pay principle. And this is all about trials for people getting their permits and
00:24:00 concessions. They need to be paid, they need to pay some amount of money as
00:24:05 deputies. And this is not about whether, then how can Ghanaians get into this
00:24:10 sector. No. Mining is a very destructive enterprise. And so if you want to get
00:24:18 into it, you need to be prepared to also pay for the pollution that you cause.
00:24:23 It's not an enterprise where anybody can just get a pickaxe or rent an
00:24:29 excavator and go start digging. No. It needs to be organized very well. Because
00:24:34 right now we have all seen the consequences we put on Ghanaians if we
00:24:39 don't deal with it systematically. And so I believe that leadership should start
00:24:45 making sure that the small scale miners also pay for the mess they are causing.
00:24:51 And that is why we have not been very happy with the government of Ghana for
00:24:55 going to the World Bank to borrow a loan of over $100 billion just to
00:25:01 rehabilitate land that has been destroyed by business mining companies.
00:25:08 These are companies that went for concessions. They are businessmen. So why
00:25:12 should they mess or destroy the land and we go and borrow money on the back of
00:25:18 public and the taxpayers' money and then use that money as a loan to pay for
00:25:25 business companies' pollution? I think it's not fair on Ghanaians. So if they are
00:25:30 really serious about dealing with mining and even dealing with it from who can get
00:25:35 into it and who cannot get into it, we need to prioritize making the polluters
00:25:39 pay for the damage and the devastation they are causing. Until we do that, nothing will work for us.
00:25:47 And when the polluters are those in government themselves like we've seen in
00:25:53 many cases, what happens? And you are fully aware of what I'm talking about.
00:25:58 What happens then? Very much aware. And I think that is where I have, we are changing to believe that
00:26:05 let's take that power, even grant mining concessions from the minister and let's
00:26:11 only make it solely an issue of Parliament. And I think that even though
00:26:18 the Parliament must ratify some of these concessions, we are not seeing this
00:26:22 happen as it should because what we have seen is that there was this case
00:26:28 of the minister providing what he calls a provisional concession or rights
00:26:33 before it goes to Parliament. That shouldn't happen. And I think we are not
00:26:40 working, we are not abiding by the laws that we ourselves have set for ourselves. I mean the law is clear.
00:26:45 Before anybody can get a mining concession or a permit, it should be ratified by
00:26:50 Parliament. So there shouldn't be any reason or excuse that, oh, my concession
00:26:56 or my permit is waiting to be ratified but I am on the
00:27:01 field. I think we've taken a whole lot of things for granted. It shouldn't be
00:27:06 possible for the minister to grant a provisional license before Parliament
00:27:10 ratifies these concessions. And then we need to also make sure that the full
00:27:15 consent of communities where these mining activities are happening are really
00:27:21 sought before we do all of them. It shouldn't be a power that is so taken by
00:27:27 the presidency, by the ministers to the extent that nobody has a say. I think we
00:27:32 need to start with our laws. Our laws have been so, have given so much power to the
00:27:39 executives and the ministers so much that community voices don't matter
00:27:44 anymore. All of these things will have been averted if we had listened to the communities,
00:27:49 we had listened to the chiefs and paid attention to the health needs of the
00:27:53 people where this goal is also found. I think we've not done a good job balancing
00:27:59 our other society with the need for goals. Even if it's just a want and greed for goals, we have not
00:28:06 done a good job balancing. And that is where we need to take the power that is
00:28:10 abusing this balance and give it back to the people. Right, and it's crucial
00:28:16 because that balance must always be found. Whatever you get from Mother
00:28:19 Earth, you must find a way of regulating. Once you overdo it, you destabilize, you
00:28:25 know, that balance and then problems arise. And that's exactly where we
00:28:30 find ourselves. It breaks my heart sometimes looking at other countries and
00:28:34 how they are preserving nature and how we are wantonly, brazenly destroying
00:28:39 nature and by extension ourselves. Which brings me to my next question and I'll
00:28:43 address that to Professor Paul or say something, a professor of pathology at
00:28:47 the KNUSD. Prof, good morning. Right, from where you sit, we've spoken, in fact,
00:28:55 that is why we captioned this "poisoned for gold". We're poisoning ourselves just
00:29:00 to get gold. But from where you sit, the cases you see, the things you have to
00:29:06 deal with, the medical issues, just how bad is it where we find ourselves
00:29:13 and the effects that we are seeing? Well, thank you so much. I'm sorry I couldn't join in via Zoom. I'm having some challenges here, network challenges, so I couldn't do so via Zoom.
00:29:27 But let me start by saying that honestly, I'm not interested in the politics of it.
00:29:34 So I would just go straight to what actually is happening as far as we are
00:29:40 concerned. I'm talking about we the humans and the life of, but in addition to our
00:29:46 citizens and all those things. So that is exactly what I am interested in. Anything
00:29:52 sort of that, I'm not interested. So like Rajiv said, the situation as far as I'm
00:30:00 concerned and the few things, the little things that I've done in respect to humans, I
00:30:06 feel that it's time we set up as a nation. I wouldn't like to bring in any politicians.
00:30:14 We as individuals, we as citizens, we should be able to sit down and say that
00:30:21 enough of this is enough and therefore we will not allow
00:30:27 few individuals who claim to be owners of this land and sometimes we go and
00:30:34 they will tell you that somebody says I have a protective or protecting license,
00:30:39 another person gives another version of it and therefore is able to do whatever
00:30:43 mess they are doing and that is where the problem is. The problem is quite a memorable. Kidney diseases are on the rise.
00:30:51 If you can see, a lot of mental issues among the youth is also on the rise.
00:30:57 I would not even like to use non-industrial mining.
00:31:06 I would like to use that term non-industrial because they don't actually obey any rules.
00:31:12 And that is where my worry is. Are you suggesting then that we are
00:31:21 suffering some levels of cognitive impairment as well on the back of being
00:31:26 exposed to these elements from the environment? Exactly.
00:31:33 I mean, via your documents, I think you saw, I think that Charidonko made clear that there are three boys in Boko Haram,
00:31:48 as we see, in the Ashanti region, who as a result of continuous inhalation of mercury,
00:31:56 trying to extract gold with mercury, the vapour that he has inhaled has
00:32:02 left this boy with cognitive impairment. Now this boy cannot write, he cannot eat
00:32:07 all by himself, he cannot eat, he needs to be fed. In fact, three of them, and I don't know those who,
00:32:13 in fact, these three were people who personally came to me to be helped, and I have to refer them to the appropriate places.
00:32:23 Do you understand? But the two blood samples to South Africa, and the level of mercury that was in the axis,
00:32:32 my brother, I mean, needs to be here to see, is in hundreds.
00:32:38 Wow. Oh yes, in hundreds. And so you can see, probably he is very close to it, but of the environment,
00:32:46 those around, probably they will get, in fact, I'm telling you, research has shown that
00:32:53 children of heathens who are developing their mother's uterus have the chance of having cognitive impairment
00:33:01 when they, for some reason, assimilate or digest mercury whilst in utero.
00:33:10 I mean, this is startling, and you have come face to face with this and seen what it does, what it is doing.
00:33:19 You bring in the issue of mothers, or pregnant mothers, or lactating, whichever way,
00:33:26 and how severe it is for their children, because even if they are not pregnant, they've already been delivered of the children,
00:33:34 whatever they ingest or take into their systems goes through their bloodstream,
00:33:39 they are also passing it on to their children via feeding them if they are using the traditional method.
00:33:46 Exactly, exactly so.
00:33:50 Are these cases getting higher and higher? Is there an uptick?
00:33:54 Well, as for other cases going higher or, I mean, reducing, I mean, I need to do a broader study on that.
00:34:05 And as you speak now, I have various country data, which is quite representative enough,
00:34:12 because if you look at the regions where I selected these things from, it's quite representative.
00:34:17 And so therefore, because I haven't done extensive studies, and in fact,
00:34:22 following children, for instance, who have been born probably from day one,
00:34:26 you need to follow them up to about six years, and it's capital intensive.
00:34:31 You need to follow these children to see how they are developing, and their mental state, and cognitive,
00:34:37 all those things, in fact, their cognitive functions and all those things must be followed to a degree of five, six years,
00:34:45 where they would have entered school, and then you can actually see whether it is increasing
00:34:51 or it has made things more difficult.
00:34:55 Before I go back to Professor Ahin, Professor Sampene, just indulge me here.
00:34:59 So, for example, with those three youth that you encountered, who actually came seeking help from you,
00:35:06 looking at the concentration of mercury in their system,
00:35:09 looking at how badly it has impaired their cognitive abilities,
00:35:15 is there any way or possibility of a reversal, or does it mean when you get to a certain point,
00:35:22 there's practically nothing that can be done for you?
00:35:24 Well, I think there could be something done, but the question is that, my brother,
00:35:29 in Ghana, do we have the capacity?
00:35:33 We don't.
00:35:36 Absolutely we don't. I haven't seen anywhere where one can really go and have the blood cleaned of that.
00:35:42 In fact, it's very difficult for the blood to be cleaned of these heavy metals.
00:35:48 Look at the common, even in the Dallas, in Ghana, we don't have as many as possible.
00:35:55 That's where everybody can even walk into any hospital and tell the person that,
00:36:00 "Look, this is the situation," and then you start going through the process of cleansing your blood
00:36:05 as a result of accumulation of toxic waste and blood and water in your blood.
00:36:10 And so, therefore, you can imagine, when you want to, if you have to extract some mercury,
00:36:18 I don't know what it's going to be like. I don't know. Seriously, I don't know what it's going to be like.
00:36:23 But probably, maybe, somebody has an idea about that.
00:36:26 As far as I'm concerned, something must be done.
00:36:28 We need to do something about it, and that something must be done now.
00:36:33 We don't have to wait until our children grow up to have all manner of autism.
00:36:38 All manner of autism, autistic character, and all those things.
00:36:42 I wouldn't be happy that the future is going to be bleak.
00:36:48 Prof Sampaneh, just hold for me, please. Indulge me. Let me bring in Prof Ahin one more time.
00:36:55 You were talking initially, you wanted to get to the technical angle of this conversation.
00:37:00 What would you like to share with us in that regard?
00:37:08 Hello, Prof. Are you still with us? Prof Ahin?
00:37:15 We appear to have lost Prof Ahin on that beat.
00:37:19 There were some technical angles he had spoken of that he had wanted to share with us.
00:37:22 But let me bring in Darrell Bossu. So when it comes to all of this,
00:37:26 then we start looking even beyond what we already know, because there are other advancements.
00:37:32 Lithium, for example, has come into the fray. Green energy.
00:37:36 And then there has also been talk, while Prof Sampaneh has said that he doesn't want to address the political elements.
00:37:43 In the end, it is the political actors, the policy makers who will either make this work or not work.
00:37:52 We see, for example, even if we look aside from from lithium, on page 12 of the Ghanaian Times newspaper,
00:37:59 let's build thriving blue economy. That's according to the vice president.
00:38:05 According to him, developing and sustaining a blue economy is not just of economic importance,
00:38:11 but also a moral imperative as well. But I ask myself, with our water bodies,
00:38:17 now we are polluting so many of our water bodies, they are even affecting Cote d'Ivoire.
00:38:23 So how moral have we been and how can we even talk about morality going forward?
00:38:29 Darrell, what are your reflections on that? We're on very critical issues.
00:38:36 And unfortunately, what we see with the government is that they like to shift the course.
00:38:46 Quickly, I mean, we have been dealing with this menace of gallant and gold mining for a long time.
00:38:54 It has not been addressed. The pollution keeps getting worse and worse.
00:39:00 They are not focused on dealing with it. The government has already jumped on to green minerals and lithium.
00:39:07 And I was particularly sad to hear the minister, I think he was in China two to three weeks ago,
00:39:15 and if you go through his opening remarks before that meeting in China,
00:39:22 all the minister spoke about was about the benefit of business, the benefit of the gold industry.
00:39:28 There was no statement whatsoever concerning the safeguard of communities, of people.
00:39:36 I think the gold and all the lithium and all the minerals they are talking about
00:39:42 is just going to be taken out of the vacuum. And this is where I see that the minister and the government
00:39:48 have no good intention when it comes to taking out minerals and dealing with it.
00:39:54 So now to hear the minister talk about blue economy, I always say that yes,
00:39:59 they just like to add their voice to the fray in terms of the public, the populist issues that is out there for discussion.
00:40:09 The global community is talking about the blue economy, they are talking about green economy,
00:40:14 we are talking about green minerals, transition minerals, so they are just adding their voice to it.
00:40:19 But a key aspect of this whole discussion, and this is where the issue of the morality and all of that comes in,
00:40:25 is how just is this quest for green minerals, this quest for whatever we want to do, how just is the process?
00:40:36 You can have all the gold, you can sign all the concessions and the permits,
00:40:41 if the process by which you come by those concessions, and the process by which you give companies permits
00:40:47 to go into community lands and mine, sometimes destroying the farms and also the surface life of other people,
00:40:57 if it is not just, then we shouldn't even be talking about the issue of morality.
00:41:02 I mean, it just may be a term that they put in their write-up to make it look really good,
00:41:08 but really we have not seen the government demonstrate that they really care about those aspects of our life.
00:41:15 All they care about so far is the gold and the minerals, the lithium.
00:41:20 I mean, it's sad, and for me, these statements are just talk.
00:41:25 They just speak nicely, flowery talk, but no true commitment on the ground.
00:41:30 So you usually will take it for things of salt, and until we the citizens ourselves start really demanding
00:41:37 serious commitment from these people, they'll keep taking us for a ride, unfortunately.
00:41:43 We can also talk about fisheries, and he says in spite of the enormous benefit from our ocean,
00:41:48 there is huge degradation occurring in our coastal landscape, and he says some of them are man-made factors
00:41:56 and others from a number of other factors in there.
00:42:01 We've also seen a depletion of our fish stock.
00:42:04 For example, some fish species are gradually getting lost.
00:42:08 The fish catch is going down.
00:42:10 Of course, there's the bit of overfishing, but there's also the impact of illegal mining on our fish stock.
00:42:17 Already, I don't know, but you buy fish, you see how expensive it has been.
00:42:22 Fish that would have cost maybe seven CDs just how many months ago or how many years ago
00:42:28 now will cost you about 20 to 25 CDs.
00:42:32 So this is impacting every aspect of our national life, and somehow it's not getting checked.
00:42:39 I don't know at what point, and this is what brings me to my next question before I bring in Professor Sampene.
00:42:47 These misleaders, as I tend to call them, are creating a problem for all of us,
00:42:54 a problem we cannot run away from.
00:42:56 We cannot be like country, broko, country, no broko.
00:42:59 We stay inside because of what they enjoy.
00:43:03 They get to live a different reality.
00:43:05 We live our ordinary person's reality.
00:43:10 Buy the things we buy.
00:43:11 They may be able to afford to import.
00:43:13 We can't import.
00:43:15 In the end, so what will it take?
00:43:18 Will it take a sort of rising up of individuals, of goodwill, of the media,
00:43:27 apart from everything we've done, of CSOs?
00:43:31 Well, something like that.
00:43:33 I don't know because in the past, similar things have been done.
00:43:36 What can we do at that level to bring about change, to, as it were,
00:43:42 force the hand of those who matter in this discussion?
00:43:48 I think these are very heavy questions to respond to looking at our history.
00:43:56 And I will say that I'm really looking for a day or a time in our development
00:44:03 where we have leaders who think not only about the physical development
00:44:11 of society in terms of building infrastructure,
00:44:14 but who take the holistic development of our society into consideration.
00:44:19 And here, prioritizing all the environmental services
00:44:24 that support or drive our economy.
00:44:27 So to a certain extent, I'm indicating that we need to have leaders who have,
00:44:32 I would say, empathy, who think about the people.
00:44:37 And if you think about the people, you ask yourself,
00:44:39 what are the things that really are the first means of the people?
00:44:45 Water, food, and clothing.
00:44:47 And water, food, and clothing will make sure that every source of water
00:44:52 in this country is protected.
00:44:54 The food system, the access to food, growing food, buying food,
00:44:59 no matter where it is gotten from, it is done in a way that is sustainable
00:45:04 and will really sustain the health of people.
00:45:07 And we need leaders, or we need people who will really reflect
00:45:11 on all of this good balance of the need for this infrastructure,
00:45:17 industrialization, with also the environmental aspect of our life.
00:45:21 Because it is these two that make this whole.
00:45:24 And that's how, if you look at the '70s, sustainable goals.
00:45:29 The environmental aspect of our lives is very much highlighted.
00:45:34 None of the 10 of them really look and speak to or connect
00:45:38 with our environmental spaces.
00:45:41 And I think it is important that we really reflect on this.
00:45:44 Our leaders now are to focus on, what do you call it, property,
00:45:51 and also on minerals and gold.
00:45:54 They don't care about our food system.
00:45:56 They don't care about water bodies.
00:45:58 And maybe as we go into this election, I think we really need to interrogate
00:46:03 and ask our leaders, what is the vision for a green, sustainable future
00:46:08 for Ghana, and also for generations yet to come?
00:46:12 If we don't see that clearly, and sometimes when we are asking
00:46:16 these questions also, let's look at their work already,
00:46:20 and use that to really determine if these people can be trusted
00:46:25 to really hold the court for all of us.
00:46:27 I think these are things that we really need to start thinking about.
00:46:30 So far, we've not done well enough as a country when it comes to
00:46:34 electing leaders.
00:46:35 We vote based on political lines.
00:46:37 Look at how beautiful and handsome they are.
00:46:40 And we don't pay attention to the ideology and the vision
00:46:45 they have for this country.
00:46:46 I think we've tried.
00:46:47 We've tried over a century of mining, gold, and all of that.
00:46:52 Maybe let's look at other development pathways.
00:46:56 Let's follow something like Costa Rica.
00:46:59 They decided, look, the mining is not helping us.
00:47:03 It's destroying the livelihood of millions and millions of people,
00:47:07 not just benefiting just 3 million as they say mining is benefiting,
00:47:11 but millions and millions more of Ghanaians' lives are at risk.
00:47:14 So let's look at really a development pathway that brings
00:47:19 and allows people to develop everything that we have,
00:47:22 to develop the tourism, to develop our water services,
00:47:26 develop our water support and everything.
00:47:28 All our rivers in this country, it's just a matter of
00:47:30 whether you fly over Ghana right now.
00:47:32 So, I mean, you wouldn't see true leaders really sit down
00:47:36 for this to happen.
00:47:37 We need to bring about a change.
00:47:39 And I think in electing who becomes our leaders,
00:47:42 we should let these things also inform some of the decisions
00:47:44 that we make.
00:47:45 And it will require a lot of education for this to happen.
00:47:48 And I think that you can also help with this process.
00:47:51 Thank you.
00:47:51 Right.
00:47:51 Hold for me.
00:47:52 We'll be concluding in a bit and I'll bring in Professor
00:47:56 Sampeneh shortly, but just a few messages we've received.
00:47:59 Joshua Chagweda says, "Civil unrest doesn't work because
00:48:06 the hardcore leaders of a demonstration get bribed.
00:48:09 Some Aluta leaders get bribed with houses in Europe,
00:48:12 so they don't sustain the demonstrations."
00:48:16 Right.
00:48:18 But I also spotted this comment and I had to read it.
00:48:21 Sandra Banafo says, "So multimedia.
00:48:24 Are you people not ashamed?
00:48:26 You have been showing videos of illegal mining for so long now.
00:48:30 And you want people to tell us--
00:48:32 and you people want to tell us that Erastus, who conducts
00:48:34 these investigations, isn't interested in finding out
00:48:37 the people who own these concessions so that he can
00:48:40 publish their names to name and shame with proof, evidence.
00:48:45 Other than that, these videos you are always showing
00:48:48 are useless.
00:48:49 You only enjoy showing these videos.
00:48:51 That is poor journalism.
00:48:52 Sit up."
00:48:54 Thank you, Sandra, for that comment.
00:48:56 But let me school you.
00:48:57 I've noticed your trend of-- and sometimes people
00:48:59 think we don't pay attention.
00:49:01 Sandra Banafo, you send in messages
00:49:03 and they are always skewed in a certain direction.
00:49:05 If you support this administration
00:49:07 and what is going on, no problem.
00:49:09 But can you be--
00:49:12 I'm trying not to use a word that you might find abrasive.
00:49:17 Can you be factual, logical in your thinking?
00:49:21 We have put here the Ashanti regional chairman of the MPP.
00:49:26 We have shown how he's mired in gallancy.
00:49:29 We've mentioned many names in government.
00:49:32 We've discussed here the Professor Frimpong-Buating
00:49:34 report.
00:49:35 Aren't you being hypocritical with this comment
00:49:38 you are passing about journalism and naming and shaming?
00:49:43 I mean, if you want to remain in your corner and support
00:49:45 whatever, that is fine for you.
00:49:48 If you think the way things are going is good for you,
00:49:50 you eat the same food that we are eating,
00:49:52 drink the same drink we're drinking.
00:49:54 That's up to you.
00:49:55 But don't, without conscience, get up and type
00:50:01 some of these messages and put them here.
00:50:03 Such lines of thought are part of the problem
00:50:06 we're facing in Ghana.
00:50:08 Professor Sampene, back to you.
00:50:11 And I get passionate like this because sometimes this
00:50:15 is a bit insulting when you see comments like this.
00:50:18 It insults our intelligence, all of us, all of us, really.
00:50:23 Prof.
00:50:24 Exactly.
00:50:25 So coming to you, Prof, I see you've already--
00:50:28 you can take it from there.
00:50:29 Such an abuse of our intelligence,
00:50:31 as though we were fools.
00:50:32 We didn't know what to think.
00:50:35 Well, this has been the issue all over.
00:50:38 In fact, I've had my say there of what this lady just
00:50:43 quoted to you.
00:50:45 At a point, a politician who happens to be in government,
00:50:49 this very government, called me and told me
00:50:52 that what I'm doing is photoshopped.
00:50:55 And he was lambasting me, saying all manner of things.
00:50:59 But that is life.
00:51:01 Sometimes you do things and then out of your-- out of your
00:51:06 megasam, out of your life, out of the risk of your life.
00:51:10 And somebody says somewhere, and tries to denigrate it,
00:51:13 and tries to-- has to go ahead and lower your intelligence,
00:51:17 insult your intelligence.
00:51:19 That's not what's happening.
00:51:21 Let's just not-- I mean, worry our head over those people.
00:51:24 And we'll go straight to what is at stake at the moment.
00:51:27 What is at stake at the moment is probably--
00:51:29 she may be suffering from one of those cognitive problems.
00:51:33 To be honest, she may be suffering
00:51:35 from one of those cognitive problems,
00:51:37 because probably, they don't know that what you're doing
00:51:40 has to do with cognitive, I mean, malfunction.
00:51:45 So that is what I would say about what they're about to do.
00:51:49 As we gear up to wrap the conversation,
00:51:51 just stay with me, Prof.
00:51:52 We'll be done in the next few minutes.
00:51:54 Darryl, I'd like to take your final thoughts, the way forward.
00:51:57 What I would like to say is that I think if our government
00:52:03 really had a conscience and was really committed and interested
00:52:09 in the lives of Ghanaians, we need to institute
00:52:14 a national-scale, I would say, investigation
00:52:18 and medical support to all these mining-prone communities.
00:52:25 We need to do that.
00:52:26 We need to get to the bottom of this.
00:52:29 So far, it's only the works of Professor Samperi
00:52:31 and a few others that is really highlighting the issue.
00:52:34 But I think this issue needs to be amplified
00:52:38 at the national level.
00:52:40 We need to get to the communities,
00:52:42 do large-scale, I would say, clinical analysis, assessment,
00:52:48 checks with all the people who are there,
00:52:50 and make sure that Ghanaians are having
00:52:53 and living a good life.
00:52:54 I think we owe it to Ghanaians in these areas,
00:52:57 because they're taking the gold.
00:52:59 And the government can't talk about how much gold
00:53:01 they are selling to the international markets
00:53:03 and all of that.
00:53:04 But what about the health of the people?
00:53:06 I think there is no justice if we continue treating Ghanaians
00:53:11 the way we are, by taking their gold
00:53:13 and then leaving their water bodies polluted
00:53:16 and their lands destroyed.
00:53:17 And they now have to even spend money, buy sachet water,
00:53:22 before they can get water to even wash their clothing
00:53:25 or even drink.
00:53:26 So I think we owe it to Ghanaians
00:53:28 to ensure that we don't let this thing fester anymore.
00:53:32 And while doing that in the communities,
00:53:35 we also take steps to make sure that from now,
00:53:39 we stop all activities that is really
00:53:42 polluting our water bodies and food security at risk.
00:53:47 Thank you, Darrell, for those concluding comments.
00:53:50 Before I go to Professor Ahin, let
00:53:52 me go to Professor Sampene for your concluding thoughts.
00:53:56 Professor Sampene, what would be your concluding thoughts?
00:53:59 The way forward, what do you see?
00:54:00 What can we do?
00:54:02 Oh, I believe that, like Darrell said,
00:54:05 I mean, they should get a better report by all,
00:54:08 that we do the right thing by letting people understand
00:54:13 that money is good, but money does not solve all problems.
00:54:18 It can solve some problems, but not a special one.
00:54:21 You are taking a person in Ghana where
00:54:24 you don't have what it takes to resolve
00:54:27 some of these medical issues.
00:54:29 So when we are getting ourselves involved in those things,
00:54:32 we should be very careful and make sure that--
00:54:35 but let me just keep in the--
00:54:37 recently, I chance upon some friends
00:54:41 who had come from China, who had come in to conduct--
00:54:44 I think they read some of my work,
00:54:46 and they also came to Ghana to do some--
00:54:48 these are a group of students from China.
00:54:52 Ganyan was their correspondent author,
00:54:55 but we had Chinese people who had come to Ghana
00:54:58 to come and check our water bodies and the food
00:55:02 around certain parts of Ghana.
00:55:06 In fact, they took--
00:55:07 in fact, they had ethics approvers.
00:55:10 And when they did the sort of things
00:55:12 they saw in our water bodies and our plants,
00:55:15 and then the soil and the food, my brother, I will tell you--
00:55:18 I'll probably send you the paper, and you read.
00:55:22 I will send you the paper, and that was published.
00:55:24 That was published in written.
00:55:25 I will send it for you to read.
00:55:26 Please do.
00:55:27 So yes, it is something that is so alarming.
00:55:31 And getting wet, people, we should sit up.
00:55:33 Please.
00:55:34 I don't want to bring any politicians.
00:55:35 I don't want to bring in people who-- because I'm reading--
00:55:39 population, I don't want to bring in people who--
00:55:41 because I'm reading--
00:55:42 doing what they want-- their masters want them to do.
00:55:46 But we, the poor ones, which, of course, you can be--
00:55:49 you-- we, the poor ones, are the very ones who are suffering,
00:55:53 because we will not have the opportunity of having
00:55:55 to buy tickets and go elsewhere to learn.
00:55:57 But we do that, and it is going to need to be done on every--
00:56:02 I mean, on quarterly manner.
00:56:04 So therefore, we have to sit up.
00:56:06 We are majority, so we have to sit up and tell them
00:56:09 that enough of that is enough.
00:56:12 Thank you, Prof, for those thoughts.
00:56:14 Enough, indeed, is enough.
00:56:17 Let's wrap the conversation with Professor Emmanuel Ahen.
00:56:20 Prof, you have the final take.
00:56:23 All right.
00:56:24 Thank you very much.
00:56:26 Unfortunately, you cannot see me,
00:56:28 but I'm just using my phone to end up.
00:56:32 My attention to this program, not just what
00:56:40 Elastos had demonstrated, started in 2017
00:56:45 when, say, Crime Watch reported of random cases
00:56:52 in Western and Central region.
00:56:57 And then the allegation was that it's
00:57:01 waste in the mining district.
00:57:04 So I went in there with my team to look
00:57:08 at whether it is really true that the problem of Rena
00:57:14 issues can be attributed to the mining activity.
00:57:20 So we carried out a research.
00:57:22 And out of the research, we realized
00:57:25 that that statement was partially true.
00:57:30 The mining operation contributes to certain pollution.
00:57:36 But what our EPA checked from these mining operators
00:57:42 are the additives, things that they
00:57:44 add into their operations.
00:57:49 But God prepared this aid in such a way
00:57:53 that there are certain harmful minerals and elements
00:57:59 that God doesn't want humans to have interactions with.
00:58:06 So he kept them at bay.
00:58:09 But through this operation of mining,
00:58:13 we bring these minerals up to the surface.
00:58:18 They get transformed and then move into the water body.
00:58:22 So if we intend to address this problem,
00:58:26 it shouldn't be just for the artisanal and small scale
00:58:30 mining operations.
00:58:32 It must also include the large scale.
00:58:34 Their operations don't devastate the environment for us to see.
00:58:38 Even we don't have access to their mine site.
00:58:40 But as they dig, they excavate to get the gold out.
00:58:46 They spoil from the earth.
00:58:48 Now they put up the earth, which are minerals
00:58:50 that are supposed to be at a desiccated environment,
00:58:54 change their location, and then get exposed to water and air.
00:59:00 And then they are transformed.
00:59:02 So if you check most of the water
00:59:05 around the mine environment, you realize that they are acidic.
00:59:11 And if they are acidic and then we drill a borehole,
00:59:16 the pH will rather leach the heavy metals
00:59:21 in the environment into the water.
00:59:22 The water will be clean, but it might not
00:59:24 be safe for drinking.
00:59:26 So what we are looking now is we need
00:59:29 to look at the whole problem holistically, not just
00:59:35 the mining bringing this sort of effect.
00:59:38 Construction, they all contribute to this.
00:59:42 Farming, we all contribute to this.
00:59:44 But the devastation of the environment
00:59:48 is what has made the mining a highlight for us
00:59:53 to discuss now.
00:59:54 I was talking about the technical aspect.
00:59:59 If we look at the large scale, we
01:00:01 don't have so much problems with that.
01:00:04 But the small scale, we have problems with that.
01:00:07 The differences between these two are just by size.
01:00:13 Earlier, we were using pickaxes and shovels to do this work.
01:00:18 Now we are using excavators, bulldozers, dump trucks,
01:00:23 which is similar to what the large scale people are doing.
01:00:27 So why don't we change their models of farming?
01:00:34 Just by giving them the landfill,
01:00:36 because they have a price for it.
01:00:38 Why don't we allow them to do some kind of processing
01:00:43 and identify the area that hosts the mineralization,
01:00:49 which they can mine at a profit.
01:00:51 We then give them the mining lease for that particular area.
01:00:55 Instead of allowing them to do this sort of wide group
01:00:59 testing-- if you've been to the field before,
01:01:01 you understand what I'm talking about.
01:01:03 They dig here.
01:01:04 If they don't find it, they move to the other.
01:01:06 They will just be hopping, destroying the land,
01:01:08 and then impacting negatively on the ecosystem.
01:01:13 So what I think should be the way forward
01:01:17 is we don't have to give them 25 acres as we're giving to them.
01:01:22 Burkina people came down to Ghana to learn what we are doing.
01:01:25 And when they went, they rather give 10 times the 25 acres
01:01:29 that we are giving here, so that people can use the earth
01:01:32 moving equipment.
01:01:33 And they also make sure a report of exploration
01:01:37 is submitted to animals.
01:01:40 The animals is like our mineral commission
01:01:42 in charge of the small scale.
01:01:44 So that the technical people will look at it.
01:01:47 And then, if it's worth giving the land, it's given.
01:01:52 I believe if we told this particular land,
01:01:55 we'll be able to sanitize the environment.
01:01:58 I always tell people that gold, we need it.
01:02:02 Because it's giving us good amount of money
01:02:06 to help our GDP.
01:02:08 But if we don't do it responsibly,
01:02:13 then I'll be among the people who demonstrate against
01:02:19 the current act.
01:02:20 But we can protect it.
01:02:22 We can have it.
01:02:23 We can do it.
01:02:24 We can get the social land use from the community
01:02:28 if we decide to do.
01:02:32 The right thing.
01:02:33 - Thank you, Prof, for joining the conversation.
01:02:36 Of course, we must be responsible.
01:02:38 That's why there's something called responsible mining.
01:02:41 But so far, we've been very irresponsible.
01:02:44 And the consequences are like a writing on a wall.
01:02:48 They've already started biting.
01:02:50 They're affecting the young ones being born.
01:02:53 They're affecting our water sources, our land resources.
01:02:57 And if we don't get a grip on the situation,
01:03:00 like the likes of Sandra Banafo, who will put statements
01:03:03 like she did, we shall all suffer the consequences.
01:03:08 No one will be left out.
01:03:10 Thank you for joining this conversation.
01:03:12 But stay with us.
01:03:14 Up next, we have a lot more.
01:03:15 Before I introduce that, those who joined us
01:03:17 on this conversation, Darrell Bossu, who
01:03:18 is with Arosha Ghana.
01:03:20 Professor Emmanuel Ahin is an applied geologist and dean
01:03:24 of the School of Geoscience at the UENR.
01:03:26 And then Professor Paul Osei-Sampene,
01:03:28 professor of pathology at the KNUST.
01:03:34 Still to come, we're going to be talking about the JOYNEUS
01:03:38 Ecobank Habitat Fair.
01:03:40 Today, we have two of our sponsors passing through.
01:03:44 Stay tuned for those conversations coming up next
01:03:46 on the AM Show.
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