'Serious warning': French ambassadors in Mideast & Maghreb dissent from Macron's 'damaging' policy
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00:00 And the images of war, the graphic images of war, are having an impact on public opinion
00:07 the world over.
00:09 This Tuesday, more than 400 U.S. civil servants, including political appointees, have sent
00:16 a letter to U.S. President Joe Biden protesting his support for Israel.
00:25 They say, the New York Times is saying this reflects growing internal dissent over the
00:30 administration's support of Israel's military campaign in Gaza.
00:36 For more, let's cross now to Georges Malbrunot, senior correspondent for French daily newspaper
00:41 Le Figaro.
00:42 You have a front-page story this Tuesday in your broadsheet about dissent within the ranks
00:49 here in France among the diplomatic corps.
00:53 First off, your reaction, before we go into, delve into what's going on here in France,
00:57 your reaction to the fact that the civil service in the U.S. is now starting to waver.
01:04 Georges Malbrunot, can you hear us?
01:11 Yes, yes.
01:12 Sorry, sorry.
01:13 I didn't hear your question.
01:14 The question was your reaction to the fact that over in the U.S. the civil service is
01:19 starting to waver with this letter that's been sent to Joe Biden.
01:23 I noticed that this morning and I was not surprised, but I noticed quite a big difference
01:32 between the situation in France and in U.S.
01:36 In U.S., I've heard, I've read that Antony Blinken said to the diplomats who were behind
01:44 this dissent, "No, we are going to listen to you."
01:48 In France, the answer I got yesterday from the Élysée and from the Quai d'Orsay is
01:52 not at all this kind of ability to listen.
01:57 They told me that they don't want, President Macron receives a lot of notes and it's one
02:03 among others and the situation has changed, et cetera.
02:07 Yeah, because just to be clear here, one is a public letter sent to Joe Biden and the
02:13 other is a diplomatic cable.
02:16 We haven't seen, you've seen it, but I haven't, the diplomatic cable.
02:22 That diplomatic cable thus is by working ambassadors, working diplomats.
02:28 Exactly.
02:29 We have around 10 or 12 current French ambassadors, mostly in the Middle East, but probably one
02:37 or two in Maghreb, which sent collectively, wrote and sent collectively a diplomatic cable,
02:47 kind of dissent note to the Quai d'Orsay, the French prime minister, and the Élysée
02:55 saying they're regretting that the French position is not well understood now in the
03:02 region, that the image of France has been degraded and the credibility of the French
03:09 policy also has been damaged because of the recent position taken by Emmanuel Macron in
03:17 the war between Hamas and Israel.
03:21 It's the first time in the last 30 or 40 years that this kind of initiative, collective initiative
03:29 taken by a group of around 10 ambassadors in function, is taking place.
03:38 This is the first time.
03:39 So it's a serious warning, meaning that the French policy, there is some disagreement.
03:47 In fact, there is big disagreement.
03:49 You probably know that the Quai d'Orsay has been marginalized by the Élysée for the
03:56 definition and implementation of the French foreign policy.
04:01 And what I've heard from people in the Quai d'Orsay, in fact, many diplomats are supporting
04:07 this dissent report because they feel that the current French policy towards the Israeli-Parisian
04:16 conflict is a little bit biased towards Israel.
04:20 And they want Macron to come back to a more traditional line, which is a line of more
04:27 balanced position, as it was, of course, during Jacques Chirac and even after with Nicolas
04:34 Sarkozy and François Hollande.
04:36 OK, so do they feel as though the balance is being redressed, what with Emmanuel Macron
04:43 hosting that humanitarian conference last Thursday and then the interview with the BBC,
04:47 where for the first time he explicitly called for that ceasefire?
04:50 Yes, true, true.
04:52 They told me that they noticed that especially the last interview to the BBC is probably
05:02 a signal, according to them, that Emmanuel Macron understood the seriousness of the situation
05:11 and that they were happy about that.
05:15 We have to understand that since the beginning, there were warnings from many countries in
05:26 the Middle East, from many French ambassadors in the Middle East, saying that the position
05:32 of France is, as I told you, is not well understood.
05:37 And mainly there was this French idea made by Emmanuel Macron during his trip to Israel.
05:46 You remember probably when he said, I want to create an extension of the international
05:53 coalition against Daesh to Hamas.
05:58 Everybody was was extremely surprised.
06:01 So let me ask you about that, Georges, because he quickly backpedaled on that.
06:09 Are they angry because he kind of shot from the hip or are they angry because they weren't
06:15 consulted?
06:16 Well, first of all, the Quai d'Orsay was not at all associated with this idea.
06:22 And even I am probably sure the diplomatic team around Emmanuel Macron was not really
06:31 associated because because this idea was not at all fit to be implemented.
06:37 Even Benjamin Netanyahu didn't want this idea to be implemented.
06:43 Of course, the Arab states neither.
06:45 When Emmanuel Macron came just a few hours after launching this idea to Amman in Jordan,
06:51 King Abdullah was extremely surprised.
06:53 I had Ayman Safadi a few hours before the trip, the Jordanian foreign minister who told
06:59 me it's unbelievable this kind of idea.
07:01 So there was this this first idea which the French ambassador in the Middle East were
07:09 extremely surprised by this idea.
07:11 So the French.
07:13 He backpedaled on that.
07:15 But is the bigger problem not, for instance, when we saw when there was the the the strike
07:20 on on the hospital, when the hospital was hit and there were protests throughout the
07:27 Arab world, we saw in places like Tunis that the protests didn't happen in front of the
07:32 U.S. embassy.
07:33 They had in front of the French embassy.
07:35 Is it more that the France being tarred with the same brush as the U.S., as Germany in
07:42 their support of Israel?
07:45 Exactly.
07:47 One of them, one ambassador in the French ambassador in the Middle East told me that
07:51 France now is associated with UK and U.S. as as part of the genocide, according to the
08:00 press.
08:01 Some some French ambassadors have problems now to get access to the authorities where
08:08 they are.
08:09 And even there is one ambassador who got some death threat.
08:14 So it's a reason why there is a kind of dissatisfaction strongly.
08:24 We will see.
08:25 I know there will be consequences from this diplomatic cable.
08:29 It's it's I think it's huge consequences.
08:34 But in terms of of short run consequence, I don't think that Emmanuel Macron would change
08:43 his his his path, even though he got the message.
08:48 I am sure he got the message.
08:51 But as you know, he has a way of to to conduct the French foreign policy a little bit strange.
09:00 We always have we say in French, on mental, always in the same time.
09:04 But at least these 10 or 12 ambassadors wanted to send a signal that the situation is serious
09:11 and the French position is damaged because of this, you know, kind of U-turn of the French
09:19 foreign policy.
09:20 And the signal has been sent.
09:22 We'll see.
09:23 We'll see if we'll see what happens.
09:24 George Malbruno, there's a woman in the middle in all of this, and that's the foreign minister
09:29 in the past.
09:30 French foreign ministers, some of them have had outsized stature.
09:32 We've had former prime ministers like Alain Juppé and Laurent Fabius who've had the foreign
09:37 who've had the foreign ministry portfolio.
09:40 Catherine Colonna, where does she lie?
09:42 Is she considered by the diplomats as one of theirs?
09:47 She's she's after all worked at the foreign ministry before.
09:50 Or is she considered as working for what the French call Le Chateau, the Elysee Palace
09:56 in this one?
09:57 The Catherine Colonna is a very well respected diplomat, a career diplomat who knows very
10:05 well the diplomacy.
10:07 The problem, say, she has been marginalized by the Elysee and mainly by also the diplomatic
10:14 team of Emmanuel Macron.
10:15 And she she she has not a lot of power regarding the the the implementation of the French foreign
10:25 policies.
10:26 That's very clear.
10:27 And it's known by many, many, of course, diplomats and even by by many journalists.
10:34 So it is the situation is that the the the the top of the French power, as you know,
10:45 has gathered all the power and the French foreign ministry has been weakened for for
10:52 years and years.
10:53 And now we have we have an evidence that the situation is quite serious.
11:00 Jean-Germain Pruneau, one quick final question for you, because your remit is covering the
11:04 Middle East, covering the Gulf states.
11:06 And when you see that the pressure is growing, when there's domestic pressure on Israel's
11:12 allies like you've just described here in France, like we described at the outset in
11:18 the United States right now, how long can the military campaign, politically speaking,
11:23 can Israel ignore that?
11:25 No, I don't think they can ignore that.
11:28 And we've seen the last statement of Joe Biden saying that he believes that there will be
11:35 an agreement concerning the hostages.
11:41 Probably there will be a kind of of of pause or in in the in the in the in the strikes.
11:50 And Israel has now a limited time to to try to achieve his military and political goals,
11:57 goals.
11:58 I do believe that they will they will succeed in by eradicating, as I said at the beginning,
12:04 Hamas.
12:05 We'll see.
12:06 Senior correspondent for Le Figaro, Georges Malbruneau.
12:10 Many thanks for being with us here on France 24.
12:14 Stay with us.
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