IR Interview: David Oyelowo For ”Lawmen - Bass Reeves” [Paramount+]
Actor David Oyelowo talks to The Inside Reel about perspective, build, approach, movement, context and intent in regards to his new series set in the 1800s from Paramount+: “Lawmen - Bass Reeves”.
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00:00 ♪♪
00:10 ♪♪
00:20 ♪♪
00:27 I'm warning you, your wicked days are done.
00:31 ♪♪
00:35 -Because the thing is, is there's so much in this man,
00:38 but just starting from the beginning,
00:40 just the path in those first two episodes
00:42 and now I've seen through four.
00:44 I don't want to give away too much,
00:46 but can you talk about looking at sort of the truth,
00:49 loyalty, and psyche of this man?
00:52 Because he has a very specific moral compass
00:54 that sort of moves at a certain point.
00:58 -Yeah, and that was one of the reasons
01:00 I was so drawn to playing him.
01:04 Sometimes, a lot of the time,
01:06 the Western genre is defined by an almost,
01:13 I would argue, amoral mindset,
01:16 which is that, you know,
01:18 revenge is what is driving things a lot of the time,
01:24 an eye for an eye, you know,
01:26 that squinty-eyed stranger
01:30 who is enigmatic and impenetrable
01:33 and is above reproach because they're cool
01:35 and ride a horse and shoot guns really well.
01:38 Whereas with Bas Reeves,
01:39 this is someone who was a living and breathing human being.
01:45 He, certainly in everything I read,
01:48 was noted for being someone who had an extraordinary
01:50 moral compass and a sense of justice.
01:53 And that is even more impressive,
01:55 given that he was literally coming out of enslavement,
01:59 being owned, which you could argue was always unjust.
02:08 But to be that close in proximity to it
02:12 and being freed and going into the time of Reconstruction,
02:15 it's a very present form of injustice
02:19 that he has had to endure.
02:21 And then being deployed by another white man
02:27 in an authority figure,
02:29 but this time to go and be a keeper of the law,
02:32 a purveyor of the law, an enforcer of the law.
02:36 You can only imagine the whiplash of that,
02:40 considering that not long ago,
02:43 another white man in power had him in a state
02:46 of being subjugated and being treated incredibly unfairly.
02:49 So through the course of the show,
02:52 we really watch the evolution of the notion of justice,
02:56 the notion of his moral code,
02:58 the pressure that's put on that,
03:00 given the times in which he lived.
03:01 And that to me is what makes him a fascinating character
03:05 to play and to watch.
03:07 (clicking)
03:09 - You a law man or an outlaw?
03:19 - Bit of both, I reckon.
03:20 (clicking)
03:22 - I need a man with a good gun
03:25 (clicking)
03:27 and a straight spine.
03:30 You up for the task?
03:31 (clicking)
03:33 I wouldn't be sitting here with my son to best if I wasn't.
03:37 - Around these parts, we might be men.
03:39 They're just killers.
03:41 All thieves.
03:43 I took an oath to protect everyone.
03:45 (clicking)
03:47 - I ain't about to quit this.
03:49 (dramatic music)
03:51 - You find a home for yourself,
03:54 what would you do to hold on to it, to protect it?
03:59 - You got to the kind of fire to get the hell off my land.
04:01 - Lady, you got two shells in that bird killer.
04:04 - Then I just shoot you twice, just to be safe.
04:07 - This is also what you were just talking about,
04:09 the perspective, his perspective is unique in so many ways,
04:14 but of being the hunted versus the hunter
04:17 and the way, the masks he was doing to survive
04:21 in like a primal state, whether it be in Mexico,
04:23 whether it be on the battlefield,
04:25 over to when he's a marshal,
04:27 and even when he started as a posse
04:28 with Dennis's character.
04:30 Can you sort of talk about looking at perspective,
04:33 but translating that physically and emotionally,
04:36 because you do it and you transform so much
04:39 just through the first half of the season.
04:41 - Yeah, there's no way you could be a black man
04:46 in this country, given what was going on,
04:51 given the authority and the duty he was given,
04:56 and it not change you,
04:58 especially as also being a husband and a father.
05:01 We see him go from not being a husband,
05:04 not being a father, to being those things.
05:06 We go from seeing him enslaved to empowered.
05:10 We go from seeing him as someone who is wide-eyed
05:15 and unnerved about the notion of being a deputy US marshal
05:20 to someone who is seasoned in it.
05:23 And having been a posse man himself,
05:26 he gains his own posse man,
05:28 who he's now mentoring through the narrative.
05:32 So it's a true arc of transformation.
05:35 We go through 15 years through the course of the episodes.
05:38 And so the time of reconstruction in this country
05:43 post the civil war, I would argue,
05:46 still has to be one of the most transformative moments
05:50 in this country's history.
05:52 And so much so that Jim Crow came along
05:56 and tried to wind that time back
05:59 because it was deemed too much progress too soon.
06:02 And so to be someone who, in the middle of all of that,
06:07 is being given this level of authority
06:09 where you're not only authorized to arrest
06:13 and bring to justice Black people,
06:16 Native American people, but white people as well,
06:19 that's dizzying for an individual.
06:22 And so to watch him as a character go through that,
06:27 to me, is hopefully something
06:29 that the audience will deem truly fascinating.
06:31 - Repeat after me.
06:32 I, Bass Reed, do solemnly swear.
06:37 - I, Bass Reed, do solemnly swear.
06:40 - That I will faithfully execute.
06:43 - That I will faithfully execute.
06:44 - All lawful precepts directed to the Marshal
06:47 of the United States.
06:48 - All lawful precepts directed to the Marshal
06:51 of the United States.
06:53 - For the Western District of Arkansas.
06:55 - For the Western District of Arkansas.
06:58 - Without malice or partiality.
07:01 - Without malice or partiality.
07:03 - Perform the duties of Deputy Marshal.
07:06 - Perform the duties of Deputy Marshal.
07:10 - And take only my lawful fees.
07:12 - Take only my lawful fees.
07:14 - So help me God.
07:15 - So help me God.
07:17 - We have miles to ride.
07:29 God speed the horses.
07:31 - It is, and could you talk about building the character?
07:33 'Cause it sounds like Taylor and you both
07:37 like collaborated to make Bass what he is,
07:40 'cause you can take away certain things,
07:42 add certain things.
07:43 What was most important to you throughout that process
07:47 to the point where you got on set
07:48 and were you still discovering it then?
07:51 - Oh yeah, we were discovering a lot
07:54 by the time we were on set, even in the edit,
07:58 you know, in terms of what the focus should be.
08:00 Chad Feehan, who is the creator
08:03 and the showrunner of the show,
08:06 you know, we really linked arms around the idea
08:10 of what should be the relatable way into this story.
08:14 We don't want it to just be a narrative
08:18 for those who love Westerns,
08:21 or even just those who have loved
08:23 Taylor Sheridan's work and Yellowstone
08:27 and things like that.
08:28 You know, how do we appeal to that audience and beyond?
08:33 And for us, it was the family, you know,
08:37 the pressure that that job must put
08:42 and have put on a family at that time,
08:45 given that he had more than 10 kids,
08:47 given that he was married to his wife
08:50 until she eventually passed away,
08:53 that must have been probably the biggest challenge for him.
08:59 And that's something I think a modern audience
09:01 can relate to, the work-life balance
09:03 is something that we're all trying to figure out.
09:06 And so that's why we really tried to zone in
09:08 on that side of his life.
09:10 - Billy Crow, where are you at?
09:14 We ain't gonna hurt you.
09:16 Give us sign of that law man so we can end this.
09:20 - Mother of God, I told you I was gonna die.
09:25 - Not today.
09:26 (gunshots)
09:30 (dramatic music)
09:33 - Stay here.
09:38 (dramatic music)
09:43 (gunshots)
10:11 - There's such an intimacy in the brutality
10:14 or brutality in the intimacy,
10:16 wherever, which way you're doing it,
10:17 either at the beginning with the slave owner
10:20 or as you go on later, even between the families,
10:22 between you and Crow, there's so many different dynamics.
10:26 Can you talk about movement and energy of this man?
10:30 Because you were talking about certain stalwarts
10:32 of the Western, but he moves in a very specific way
10:36 and he's an observer of behavior.
10:38 Could you talk about that?
10:39 Because as an actor, obviously,
10:40 you're an observer of behavior too,
10:42 to translate that into what we see on screen.
10:46 - Gosh, I'm so glad that you zoned in on that.
10:49 I mean, that to me,
10:51 what was something we talked about a lot.
10:55 It's all fine and good in this genre
10:58 to have the sort of character who's doesn't say much
11:03 and that kind of makes them enigmatic.
11:05 But for me, that has to be active.
11:08 Why, why is he a man of few words?
11:13 And it's because he's listening.
11:14 It's because he's internalizing his environment.
11:18 What makes him, what made him so incredible at what he did?
11:23 You cannot rack up those numbers.
11:25 3,000 people arrested, only 14 killed, barely ever injured.
11:30 Whether that's legend or reality,
11:34 the truth is he was extraordinary at what he did.
11:37 And you simply cannot do that by being a loud mouth,
11:40 by being irresponsible,
11:41 by being someone who's not incredibly thoughtful
11:44 and adept at what you do.
11:47 What does that look like for someone
11:49 who had been enslaved for so long?
11:51 You have to be someone who is incredibly observant
11:55 about your environment, incredibly skilled at what you do.
11:58 I'm glad that we show his ability with languages,
12:04 even though he was illiterate.
12:06 He was someone who was, you could argue,
12:10 was being kept from achieving the totality of the talents
12:15 that he had within him.
12:17 But somehow, the combination of having lived
12:21 significant portions of his life with Native Americans,
12:25 being the observant and intelligent person that he is,
12:30 combined with the opportunity he was given,
12:33 is what really enabled him
12:34 to become this transcendent figure.
12:36 And to be able to show who he was as the narrative builds
12:41 was one of the joys of playing this role for me.
12:44 - Two pair.
13:04 - You black son of a bitch.
13:06 - They didn't come to take your money.
13:08 How about I return that pot in exchange for information?
13:14 - Maybe I would just kill you instead.
13:17 - Could try.
13:20 But you'd be going after a deputy US Marshal.
13:23 And there's a half a dozen more why side.
13:26 - Hell, he's bluffing again, big Al.
13:31 - Wanna wager on that?
13:35 - And there's the internal battles.
13:37 That's what I think is really interesting.
13:39 You see him debating and weighing choices
13:41 like the arms of justice.
13:43 It's, you know, whether it's with the young man
13:46 outside Donald Sutherland's office,
13:47 where it's listening to Garrett
13:48 and making that choice in the moment,
13:50 whether when he has posse later on, and he has to do that.
13:54 I mean, could you talk about internalization?
13:57 Because you don't wanna make people aware of it,
13:59 but there's so many battles going on inside this man
14:02 that you have to have those questions, you know,
14:06 available to you to be able to emote that, I would think.
14:09 - One of the things that was very important to me
14:12 in telling this story was not treading ground
14:16 that we have seen so often.
14:18 I, along with many other people, feel we've seen enough
14:23 of the broken, enslaved, browbeaten black person
14:27 in narratives.
14:29 We know what that is, we've seen plenty of it.
14:32 And so we have a bit of that at the beginning of this
14:36 to contextualize the time, the period, the place, the people.
14:41 - The dialect, the dialect does that too, correct.
14:45 - Correct.
14:46 But what we've seen less of is this very specific
14:55 kind of black person who deeply loves his family,
15:00 who is the smartest guy in the room,
15:04 despite being consistently undermined,
15:08 undervalued, underestimated.
15:16 And that actually is a weapon for him.
15:19 As the show continues,
15:21 you see that he starts employing disguises
15:23 in order to bring in criminals.
15:26 He uses the very thing that has been the disadvantage
15:31 for him as a weapon.
15:34 And that, to me, to see that level of empowerment
15:39 tied to not brute force, but intellect,
15:44 and brute force when is needed,
15:46 very judiciously deployed, is to me,
15:49 that's where this guy starts to segue into superhero.
15:53 And that's where we see that he's able to
15:56 bring in these very specific elements,
16:01 even though he's a real person.
16:03 And again, just something I'm deeply proud
16:05 that we were able to weave into the narrative.
16:07 - How do I get to do what you do?
16:10 - You're loyal.
16:11 - You ain't afraid of much.
16:13 - But the real power lie beneath the badge.
16:16 Ready to ride?
16:19 - I thought you'd never ask.
16:20 (dramatic music)
16:23 (dramatic music)