The Reporters | Khawar Ghumman & Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain | ARY News | 16th November 2023 - video Dailymotion

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Transcript

00:00 Asalam o alikum viewers, welcome to the program.

00:02 We have good news from the economic center of Pakistan.

00:06 For the past two weeks, you have been seeing that the negotiations of Pakistan were going on with the delegation of the IMF.

00:12 We were meeting in Islamabad in the morning, afternoon and evening.

00:15 Obviously, the IMF has a stand-by agreement with us.

00:19 We were supposed to get the next installment of the 700 million dollar.

00:24 Before that, we had to review the conditions of the quarter.

00:32 How much we have fulfilled and how much we have acted.

00:36 The news is that the IMF has also received a statement that we have fulfilled all the conditions in a very good way.

00:45 And since we have fulfilled the conditions, the next installment of 700 million dollars is in all the newspapers.

00:54 There is a lead story behind it, you can see it in Dawn, Express Tribune.

00:57 Success in IMF review set to unlock 700 million dollars.

01:01 Pakistan to receive 700 million dollars from IMF.

01:04 These are all the matters.

01:06 The main agreement that we have received from the IMF, we put its standards in front of you.

01:15 The financial year of 2024 is continuously in effect on the budget.

01:20 Continuous adjustment in the price of demand and a new speed in the foreign exchange market has reduced financial and external pressure.

01:28 There is a shortage of personnel in the coming months, but there are important external threats for Pakistan.

01:36 The word of geopolitical tensions has been used.

01:38 You know that the war in Ukraine is going on with Israel.

01:44 In which the intensity of geopolitical tensions, the increase in the prices of assets and the international financial conditions are more severe.

01:53 Under the Stand-by Agreement, the situation for balanced development and reducing government expenses are included in the priorities of the Pakistani government.

02:02 The business environment, investment and employment development and governance reforms are moving forward with the government.

02:11 And the government of Pakistan is also acting on other plans, including privatization.

02:16 Dr. Farooq Salim is with us.

02:23 We will know from him that the agreement that has been made today, of course, the IMF is not running the economy in the right way.

02:30 A fundamental point that we need to understand is that those countries go to the IMF.

02:36 The internal affairs of the countries are not running well at the economic level.

02:42 The country needs infrastructure, especially how you run the economy, how you run your state and enterprises.

02:51 What are the priorities of the government in terms of enforcing the fiscal discipline in Pakistan?

02:57 If it is not implemented, the situation is bad, your current deficit, trade deficit, etc.

03:03 When all the losses are increasing, then the IMF needs such a package.

03:08 Thank you very much for giving us time. First of all, give us an overview.

03:13 Obviously, the government has been a big success story and I think it is still a success story.

03:19 Obviously, until we have the IMF's approval, we will get money from other international donors.

03:26 We have to present a good picture in front of the world, to create an impression that reforms are being made in Pakistan.

03:35 And we are moving forward on the economic model of Pakistan, which needs reforms.

03:42 So, this is a positive signal. What was your first reaction when these announcements came to us?

03:49 Mr. Khawar, if we look at the history, we became a member of the IMF in 1950.

03:58 And we started taking such loans from 1958. Why is the announcement today, the staff level agreement, called successful?

04:12 One of the big reasons for this is that in the last 73 years, we have signed 24 programs with the IMF.

04:19 And you can imagine that we failed in 22 of the 24 programs.

04:24 One program was such that we got a dozen waivers. I think it was the 2016 program.

04:32 And we completed that program after taking the waivers.

04:36 I remember one program, it was a program during Musharraf's time, in which the government refused to take the last two loans.

04:45 They said, "We don't need to take your loan."

04:49 So, think that we were unsuccessful in 22 of the 74 programs in 73 years.

04:55 And two of the successes were one of the programs, the Hazar program, which you are talking about today.

05:03 So, the success is real. We have done two things in 73 years, only once before. Now we will do it again.

05:11 Yes, Dr. Sahib, my next question to you is this.

05:14 I have with me Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam Sain and Mr. Hassan Ayub, who will also ask you this question.

05:19 Obviously, the $700 million that we are getting, we have to get this waqf in the next tranche.

05:26 We had to get three tranches for this.

05:29 Now, when the new government comes, obviously, the elections have already been held on 8th February.

05:34 So, how are you looking at this time span?

05:37 Because, as I was seeing in Ilamia, the privatization that we have to reform in state-owned enterprises,

05:45 maybe decisions have been taken in that regard. What is your take on this?

05:51 I think that there will be no privatization during the government.

05:59 Privatization is a long process.

06:02 The PIA is being preferred, maybe advisors are being found or appointed for the PIA.

06:09 And the PIA has a top priority as to how it has to be handled in terms of privatization.

06:15 A very big problem is that the assets of the PIA are worth about 100 rupees, and the loans on it are worth 750 rupees.

06:25 So, privatizing such an entity that has only 100 rupees of assets and 750 rupees of liabilities and so on,

06:34 will not be an easy task.

06:36 If you look at the budget that was announced in June, the privatization proceeds,

06:43 how much money will come from privatization in our budget,

06:46 that is also about 10-12 billion rupees.

06:51 This means that the government had no plan in the budget to be able to privatize anything.

06:56 And the government is trying, but I don't think that it will be able to do anything successfully before February.

07:06 Hassan Ayub is asking you a question.

07:08 Dr. Sahib, the former advisor, Mr. Mohammad Nawaz Sharif, repeated the Chamber of Commerce,

07:14 and said that in 2022, we were not ready to come to government.

07:18 But we had to come to government because we had to save the country from default.

07:24 Is what he is saying correct?

07:27 Look, the work that was done at the end of the PTI government,

07:36 when the PDM government was coming,

07:39 you think that the highest budget loss in the history of all finance in Pakistan,

07:47 was about 7.5 billion to 8 billion,

07:51 that was being received in inheritance by the PDM government.

07:55 The second was the highest commercial loss in the history of Pakistan,

08:01 it reached 40-45 billion dollars.

08:04 These are the two things that the PDM government received in inheritance.

08:08 Now, it should have been that the PDM government,

08:11 the financial pit that it had fallen into,

08:15 it would have stopped digging further.

08:17 This did not happen.

08:19 They definitely got bad conditions,

08:22 but they made those conditions worse.

08:26 More negative things came up,

08:29 which I mentioned that the pit,

08:31 they say that if you are in a ditch, stop digging.

08:35 If you are in a ditch, stop digging.

08:39 That work could not be done.

08:41 And especially two things that came up,

08:44 of that 16-month PDM government,

08:47 one was inflation,

08:49 which was the highest in the entire history of Pakistan,

08:55 we saw that inflation reached 50% in terms of food.

09:01 That is, you can imagine that some food items were such

09:05 that their price increased by 50% in a year.

09:10 And the second was that the loss of dollars,

09:14 which you are mentioning as default,

09:17 it has been getting worse.

09:20 And if you remember in November,

09:23 at the end of September, the new Minister of Finance,

09:26 Mr. Sushant Sinha, Mr. Itagdar had come.

09:29 He delayed the negotiations with IMF for about 7-8 months.

09:35 And as a result, in those 8 months,

09:38 Pakistan suffered a loss of $ 8 billion.

09:42 Our remittances of $ 4 billion fell,

09:46 and exports of $ 4 billion fell.

09:49 So the conditions were bad when the PDM government came,

09:53 but they made it worse.

09:55 But Doctor, we will definitely talk about the second part of the program.

09:59 Today, Mr. Nawaz Sharif talked about how much dollars he had to keep,

10:03 what Mr. Idar did after that.

10:05 And obviously, Doctor, this is a part of history.

10:07 When the PMLN government went in 2018,

10:10 you know that the current account deficit,

10:13 this is a part of our history.

10:15 Let's come back to the IMF agreement.

10:17 Okay, Mr. Ghulam Sain, over to you.

10:20 You can ask questions, comment on the agreement.

10:25 Okay, the agreement is done, so that's good news.

10:29 Let's move forward.

10:30 But Doctor, we have to ask two things.

10:33 Is economic activity being generated or not?

10:35 Will there be an exportable surplus?

10:37 If exports don't increase, how will your deficit decrease?

10:41 And number two,

10:43 what are you working on as a bank, as a government, as a nation, as a state?

10:49 Doctor, for the sake of clarity,

10:51 I'll put this question to the viewers as well.

10:53 We have nothing to sell right now.

10:56 We are surviving on foreign money.

10:58 So, until there is no production or productivity in the country,

11:02 the financial condition of the country will be bad.

11:05 So, in the coming months,

11:07 or weeks,

11:09 it's a matter of a few months or a few years,

11:12 will we be able to sell anything?

11:15 Will our exports increase?

11:17 Will there be a boost in the economy?

11:20 Mr. Khawar, allow me to say something.

11:23 I disagree that we have nothing to sell.

11:27 I think that the economic decisions that are made in our country

11:33 are made through political agents.

11:36 And as a result, we are standing where we are today.

11:40 Okay, recently, compared to the last month,

11:44 exports of $2 billion in the last month

11:47 have increased by 2.7 billion this month.

11:52 Remittances of $2 billion have reached 2.5 billion.

11:57 I'm talking about the month.

11:59 There has been an increase in that.

12:01 Look, the biggest issue of the 24 crore Pakistanis

12:05 is inflation at the moment.

12:07 The rate of inflation is increasing very fast.

12:10 As we saw, the price of petrol has fallen twice.

12:15 The rate of inflation has fallen.

12:17 If you look at the special items,

12:20 the price of sugar was Rs. 170 per kilo three months ago.

12:25 Today, the market is selling sugar for Rs. 150 per kilo.

12:29 If you look at the numbers for just one month,

12:32 the price of lentils has fallen by 4%.

12:36 The price of wheat has fallen by 2%.

12:38 The price of tea has fallen by 2%.

12:40 And the price of petrol and diesel has fallen by 5% or 6%.

12:46 So, some positive news and positive indicators

12:51 are visible in the markets.

12:55 The government figures show that inflation is at 27%,

13:01 which was at 31% last month.

13:03 This means that inflation is still going on.

13:08 But the rate at which the horse of inflation was running,

13:13 which was at 31% last month,

13:18 is now at 27%.

13:21 So, there is a decrease in the rate of inflation.

13:23 Inflation is still going on.

13:25 Doctor, do you think that the SIFC initiative

13:34 will help Pakistan in economic recovery?

13:40 And can this be a game changer for Pakistan?

13:43 You mentioned SIFC.

13:47 And before that, we were talking about

13:49 the fact that there is nothing to sell to Pakistan.

13:51 Exportable surplus.

13:55 The world is moving towards alternative energy.

14:03 It is moving towards solar energy.

14:05 We are getting cars for electricity.

14:08 In the West, the deadline is set for 2028-2030

14:13 that everything will be removed from petrol

14:16 and will go towards alternative energy.

14:19 Whether it is solar panels, batteries for cars,

14:23 or alternative energy,

14:25 all of them need one thing called copper.

14:30 Now you can imagine that

14:33 God has given so much copper to Pakistan.

14:37 There is only one part of it that we have started exploring.

14:42 You mentioned SIFC.

14:45 According to my knowledge,

14:50 the Saudis have a great interest in putting a part

14:55 in the copper mines, especially in the Rekodec project.

14:59 They want to buy shares.

15:01 The problem is that the Barrick Gold,

15:06 which has 50% shares,

15:08 they don't want to sell their shares to the Saudis.

15:11 They have high expectations from Rekodec.

15:15 They don't want to bring any shortcomings in their shares.

15:18 The remaining 25% is the shares of the Balochistan government.

15:21 25% is the shares of the Bifaki government.

15:24 Both these governments are not yet ready

15:27 to sell their shares to Saudi Arabia in Rekodec.

15:31 The copper I mentioned,

15:34 almost all the sovereign wealth funds of the Gulf countries,

15:39 the public investment fund in Saudi Arabia,

15:44 has about 6.5 billion dollars.

15:47 They want to invest in copper.

15:50 Qatar Investment Authority has about 4.5 billion dollars.

15:54 They also want to invest in copper.

15:57 The world's largest sovereign wealth fund

16:00 is the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority.

16:02 They have about 7.5 billion dollars.

16:05 They also want to invest in copper.

16:08 We have a lot of God-given wealth.

16:11 We just have to manage it.

16:14 You are absolutely right.

16:17 This is the problem for the past 76 years.

16:20 There is no shortage of resources in the country.

16:23 We have agriculture, we have industry.

16:25 In the past, we were leading the world.

16:28 This was after the 60s and 70s.

16:30 Basically, our interest rate is around 22.

16:36 The IMF agreement emphasizes that

16:42 we kept the dollar at 104 and we were going to go down.

16:48 The way the economy of Pakistan was affected

16:51 from 2013 to 2018,

16:53 we artificially controlled the dollar.

16:55 The question is, with this interest rate,

16:58 obviously, there will be no investment in your country.

17:01 How will our own business invest?

17:06 The IMF's focus is on free floating.

17:14 How far can we allow it?

17:17 At the end of the day, you have to take care of national interest.

17:20 It is not possible that the dollar jumps from $400 to $500

17:24 and you sit around.

17:26 You have said two things.

17:31 First, I agree with you 100%.

17:33 If the interest rate is 22%,

17:35 then the business people will get 25-27% interest.

17:42 It is impossible to take a loan at that rate and invest.

17:47 No business can be profitable.

17:50 This rate will not come down until

17:53 the interest rate of inflation is reduced.

17:56 You can't get power in business.

17:59 This interest rate will have to come down.

18:02 It will come down as soon as the rate of inflation comes down.

18:06 If inflation is high,

18:08 then you think that the interest rate,

18:11 whether you trust the IMF or blame the IMF,

18:15 the interest rate will not come down

18:17 if the rate of inflation does not come down.

18:20 What was the second issue you raised?

18:23 My exchange rate, the rupee-dollar exchange rate.

18:27 Many governments have tried to

18:32 make money strong in the face of the dollar

18:37 and to do it in a profitable way.

18:39 Pakistan has failed badly in that.

18:42 No country in the world has been able to

18:46 make a currency strong in a profitable way.

18:50 Last year, when the Indian Reserve Bank

18:54 had $650 billion in debt,

18:57 and the Indian rupee started to fall,

19:00 the Indian Reserve Bank threw $100 billion in the market

19:04 to stop it.

19:06 After losing $100 billion,

19:08 they learned that this cannot be done.

19:11 They also have reserves.

19:13 Look, as long as our imports are of 70 billion,

19:17 and exports are stuck at 30-31 billion,

19:20 there is no way in the world

19:23 that you can make money.

19:26 Mr. Chaudhary Gulamshahan is absolutely right.

19:29 No, but Mr. Khawar.

19:30 Yes, yes, please.

19:32 When Mr. Jog said that

19:36 when you will not have an exportable surplus,

19:39 the export will not increase,

19:41 how will the country stand on its feet?

19:45 When he said that,

19:46 he said that he has everything.

19:48 These are completely wrong things.

19:51 When 22% is said to be of the rate,

19:54 he said that is also wrong.

19:56 When the inflation is 30% of the overall,

19:59 that is also wrong.

20:00 So what does he mean by that?

20:02 I say that when you have more rice,

20:05 more cotton, more cloth,

20:07 more other things will not be produced,

20:09 will not go out,

20:10 export will not increase,

20:12 then you will not be able to come down from this burden,

20:15 you will not be able to get out of it.

20:17 Well, Dr. will answer,

20:19 but what I understood,

20:20 Dr. has explained,

20:22 obviously he has mentioned 3-4 countries,

20:24 that they have so much money,

20:25 they want to invest in Pakistan.

20:27 No, they do not give us money.

20:29 The problem of Pakistan is basically that

20:31 people are afraid to come here.

20:33 They are afraid because one government goes,

20:36 wants to forward its political agenda through economic policies,

20:42 then another one comes with its own agenda.

20:45 So basically, we have to correct our decision-making processes.

20:51 But Dr. you know,

20:53 Mr. Chaudhary Ghulam Sain,

20:55 he has a heartache for Pakistan,

20:57 often emotionally,

20:59 he expresses all his emotions.

21:02 Pakistan has a problem,

21:04 because we do not have exports.

21:06 I have a lot of respect for Mr. Chaudhary's heartache and his emotions,

21:12 but I would like to decide on the basis of emotions,

21:18 or talk about it,

21:20 if it is done on the basis of numbers and figures,

21:22 which would be better.

21:24 The period that we are discussing now,

21:27 which we are planning,

21:29 the crop of cotton has increased by 126%.

21:35 Compared to last year,

21:37 this year, the crop of cotton has increased by 126%.

21:40 The export of cement during this period,

21:43 has increased by 130% in the cement exports.

21:49 So we are discussing that the figures of the last three months,

21:53 on which the IMF is sitting to review,

21:56 have shown very positive signs.

22:02 Will these positive signs continue?

22:06 I think it is a great help that if we make political and economic decisions,

22:13 based on political principles,

22:16 then there is hope and expectation that they will continue.

22:20 If we make economic decisions based on political principles,

22:26 which we have been doing,

22:28 then I hope that these signs will be positive.

22:35 You are absolutely right.

22:36 Dr. Sahib, the IMF has also mentioned the intensification of geopolitical tensions.

22:42 Obviously, it did not take the name,

22:44 but whatever is happening in the Middle East,

22:46 whatever is happening in Ukraine,

22:48 obviously, the pressure is coming on commodity prices.

22:50 How long do you think this will last?

22:53 If this continues,

22:55 we are already dead,

22:57 what will we do?

22:58 If we die, the pressure will increase even more.

23:00 Mr. Khawar, the realities of the world markets,

23:07 are very different.

23:09 You mentioned two wars,

23:11 the war of Gaza and the war of Ukraine.

23:13 Usually, when big wars come,

23:17 the price of oil starts to rise.

23:20 This is a strange phenomenon that has been going on for the past few months.

23:24 I think it is out of my understanding that

23:28 wars are taking place, but the price of oil is going down.

23:31 You must remember that a few months ago,

23:35 the price of oil went up to $95,

23:37 now it is going up to $80.

23:39 We have seen the impact of this in Pakistan as well.

23:42 So, the world market is behaving differently

23:47 with respect to oil prices.

23:49 The price of oil is going down in the midst of wars.

23:53 The demand for oil is going down.

23:56 The supply is about 100 billion barrels per day.

24:00 Maybe that is why the prices are going down.

24:03 This is good news for a country like Pakistan.

24:07 I would like to ask a question.

24:10 Dr. Sir, tell us,

24:12 the IMF program, the second installment,

24:16 which has just been approved for $710 million,

24:19 will all this money be transferred to Pakistan at once

24:23 or will it be available in installments?

24:25 And if all the installments of the second installment are to be made,

24:29 when will Pakistan get it?

24:32 Because today, after the IMF announcement,

24:35 the dollar is more expensive than the rupee.

24:39 The dollar has lost almost one rupee.

24:42 In today's time.

24:44 The interesting thing is that this was a stand-by agreement.

24:48 There are three agreements.

24:50 One case was given to the first PDM government.

24:54 One case will be given to the Nigran government.

24:57 And one case will be given to the next Muttakhid government.

25:01 So, we always talk about the level playing field in politics.

25:05 So, maybe the IMF has also played a level playing field

25:08 and the government is getting one case at a time.

25:10 See, the staff level agreement has just been made.

25:13 After this, this agreement goes to the executive board.

25:16 And I think that in the last week of December

25:20 or in the first week of January,

25:22 whenever the executive board meeting will be held,

25:25 only the executive board can order the actual installment distribution

25:31 of about $700 or $710 million.

25:37 Dr. Sir, you have been writing a lot on this.

25:40 I read it to you routinely.

25:42 The IMF announcement has been explained in it

25:46 that this circular debt has become 4% of the GDP.

25:49 This combined gas and electricity.

25:52 Sir, what is the solution to this?

25:54 You have written a lot.

25:55 What will have to be done?

25:56 We will have to touch the lamp of Aladdin.

25:59 These are the discos, these are the Pakistanis,

26:02 these are our bureaucrats.

26:03 The same politicians, their families, their board of directors sit there.

26:08 What is the solution to this?

26:10 That it should be run, adopted.

26:12 And this circular debt, we were talking about it yesterday.

26:16 I don't know how many trillions it has gone.

26:19 We have to find a solution to that too.

26:21 This is the real issue.

26:25 Whether it is the issue of electricity theft,

26:27 the issue of circular debt or the issue of gas theft.

26:30 The issue of gas theft has also reached 2.6-2.7 trillion rupees.

26:37 Look, the solution exists.

26:39 Political, whether it has the ability or not,

26:45 political intentions are needed, political capabilities are needed.

26:48 If you combine the two, the solution comes out.

26:50 Look, the solution to electricity is that it is not the job of the government

26:56 to buy 100% of the electricity that is being generated in the country.

27:02 And then it sells 100% of it.

27:05 The government buys 100 billion units.

27:07 30-35 billion of it is stolen, wasted.

27:11 The government sells 60-65 billion of it to the consumers.

27:15 And the rest of the 30-35 billion goes into circular debt.

27:20 The logic is this.

27:21 The government's own numbers and figures show that 520 billion rupees of electricity was stolen last year.

27:28 The government's job is to govern, to govern.

27:32 Not to buy electricity.

27:34 It will have to be investigated.

27:36 The distribution companies, either they will have to hand it over to the provinces

27:41 or eventually they will have to give it to the private sector.

27:44 Yes, Doctor, thank you very much for giving time.

27:47 We will continue to have such sessions with you in the future.

27:51 Viewers, we have to go to the break now.

27:52 After the break, we will tell you that on the one hand, the Pakistan People's Party is asking for a level playing field.

27:59 On the other hand, the Pakistan Muslim League is asking for a level playing field in its own way.

28:04 What level level playing field do they want?

28:08 We will talk about that after the break.

28:10 Welcome back.

28:11 Viewers, it is obvious that the Pakistan Muslim League is continuing its politics in a very full way.

28:18 In the last program, we talked about it last week as well.

28:21 Javed Lateef is making a demand.

28:24 He is demanding that the cases of the Muslim leaders should be decided before the elections.

28:31 So that people have a clear-cut agenda, they know which leader is free, which ban will remain.

28:38 So that they can vote.

28:40 Javed Lateef's demand.

28:42 But let me tell you one thing.

28:44 Hassan Ayub does not take his demand seriously, but he has also made such a demand.

28:48 Listen to this.

28:49 [Hassan Ayub's demand]

29:17 What will you say about this demand?

29:19 This is a legitimate demand.

29:20 You are in agreement with his demand.

29:22 You will take him seriously in this.

29:24 But you will also say that this is an insincere demand.

29:26 This is his demand.

29:27 The party is demanding this.

29:28 Have you heard that the president of the Muslim League, Mr. Nawaz, Mr. Shahbaz Sharif has made this demand?

29:33 Okay, you are taking him seriously again.

29:35 No, I am saying that Javed Lateef is making a demand on his own.

29:40 You can demand Javed Lateef's demand and if you ask for a proposal from me, I can give it.

29:46 If you demand it as a representative of the Muslim League Nawaz, then I will not do it.

29:52 Okay, leave it.

29:53 I have made this political demand.

29:56 What is your comment on this demand?

29:59 Is it right?

30:00 Look, if there is a case in the court, it should reach the end of the month soon.

30:07 There is no other opinion on this.

30:09 Any case should not linger on.

30:11 Like the 25th May application after two hearings, the Chief Justice Umar Ta Bandyal hung it up.

30:18 And he retired but he did not put the case again.

30:20 Bandyal sir, leave it.

30:21 Why should I leave it?

30:22 Look, the thing is that there was one conduct of his, which he did.

30:25 He kept fixing all the other cases, but he did not fix this case.

30:28 Our plate is already full with all the cases.

30:32 You can comment on this.

30:33 I would like to talk about the level playing field.

30:36 You can talk about it after Blahul Buttoz Dardai.

30:39 No, not about Blahul Buttoz, I would like to talk about it in general.

30:41 Okay, do it quickly.

30:42 Look, I feel that by design, it is being said that Muslim League Nawaz is not popular.

30:50 And Muslim League Nawaz is not getting any special facilitation.

30:54 It is being polluted already.

30:55 If it is written on the wall that Muslim League Nawaz is going to win,

30:58 before that it is being polluted.

31:00 Sometimes it is said that Lahore has been taken from them.

31:03 Our media people have started this.

31:05 Today, I am telling you, and I am giving you the news.

31:08 The whole Sharif family, the whole Sharif family,

31:11 all the old constituencies of the family will contest the elections from there.

31:15 Including Nawaz Sharif, including Shehbaz Sharif, I am talking about the constituencies of Lahore.

31:20 Including Hamza Shehbaz and even Maryam Nawaz will contest the elections from Lahore.

31:26 Yes, Chaudhary sahab, the great.

31:28 You have heard this news, you can comment on it.

31:32 Where is the news in this?

31:34 You can guess.

31:35 You said that the news was that Hassan Ayub…

31:38 Oh, brother, they are also looking for a ring outside.

31:41 They will fight, but they are saying that if this is in Lahore,

31:44 this was the impression in Lahore that there is no special facility for them in Lahore.

31:48 If they do not fight in Lahore, if they do not fight in Lahore,

31:52 then people will say that they have run away.

31:55 So, there, let's go, that voting…

31:58 In the past, there are two such people who were brought by Nawaz Sharif sahab from outside Lahore,

32:05 contested the elections from Lahore and won.

32:08 Even if Imran Khan sahab was in Pakistan,

32:10 then maybe Nawaz Sharif sahab had lost his Marine Willing seat,

32:13 he went and won the elections from Lahore and won the constituency.

32:16 Hassan Ayub, you are a young man, what is the importance of this from today?

32:19 If you read the political history, Lahore used to be the home of the Pakistan People's Party.

32:23 Yes, yes, absolutely.

32:24 Then in politics…

32:25 Then the election results will come on 8th February, then we will know who is the Lahore Guard.

32:30 Let's move ahead, today, once again, you know that Bilawal Bhutto Zardari sahab is also campaigning for the elections.

32:36 Today, he is present in Abbottabad.

32:38 In Abbottabad, he has given a statement there, we will decipher it a little,

32:45 we will talk about what he wants to say,

32:48 that for the second time or the fourth time, don't look at the people who have become the Prime Minister, look at me.

32:52 Whoever has not got a chance, give them a chance.

33:04 If you give us a chance, this is a promise from my people of Pakistan.

33:11 I will never disappoint you.

33:14 One thing, the audience found it very interesting,

33:17 they said, "What is this, you are looking at a 75 year old man, look at me."

33:22 I am the young, I am young, I have made myself the Foreign Minister,

33:28 and if you vote for me, I will make myself the Prime Minister.

33:32 Listen.

33:33 70% of the people are 30 years old or younger than that.

33:37 Do we want to give them the future of Pakistan, the future of our people,

33:54 who only think for themselves, or should we give a chance to the Pakistan People's Party?

34:02 The Prime Minister is 70 years old, he is targeting everyone, not just one.

34:08 He targeted old politics in the parliament the other day.

34:12 After that, he is saying that he has become the beloved of the people,

34:16 I don't want to be the beloved of any other dead or non-dead power.

34:21 I am only looking at the people of Pakistan.

34:27 If you want to be the beloved, you have to be the beloved of the people.

34:31 I will take the political power from you, from the people of Pakistan.

34:37 The people should take all the decisions, and only the people have the right to decide

34:44 who becomes the Prime Minister, who becomes MNA, who becomes MPA.

34:49 And he also said that he is not at all dissatisfied with old politics.

34:54 The biggest enemy of the progress of Pakistan is the old politics,

35:04 which keeps the people out, and all the decisions are made in a back room.

35:13 And today, later, you are told that this is your MNA, this is your MNA, this is your Prime Minister.

35:21 Until your decision is not accepted, until your vote is not given respect,

35:28 Pakistan cannot progress.

35:32 What is your objection?

35:34 I have no objection.

35:36 He is saying that the people should decide, so I am saying that the people will decide.

35:40 See, the thing is that...

35:42 No, you are saying on one side, it is written on the wall that their...

35:46 That is obvious, that Muslim League Nawaz's Punjab,

35:49 earlier it was said that it is the Jamaat of Lahore, the Jamaat of GT Road,

35:52 now the GT Road is in Punjab, it is accepted in Punjab, there are 140 seats in Punjab,

35:57 now if Bilawat sir wins all 60 seats, then also he cannot become the PM of Pakistan.

36:03 Now the thing is that Muslim League Nawaz has proven for decades that it is the most accepted Jamaat in Punjab.

36:10 Quick comment, Shauj sahib, you talk, I mean, this is right, the people will see,

36:17 the people will see on that day, 18th February.

36:19 No, no, Khawar Govind sahib, what Bhutto Zardari sahib has said,

36:24 it is logical, that there should be an election, whoever wins in that, he should vote,

36:29 whoever loses, he should make a government,

36:32 if there are two votes in this, then it cannot happen.

36:34 Now, the way you jump together,

36:38 and want to bring us down from our throat that that is such a powerful party,

36:44 there is no competition for that.

36:46 No, no, it is their argument, what is happening?

36:48 Every day, they say the same sentence.

36:51 No, no, the thing is that whoever has full conviction,

36:55 Hassan Ayub has conviction, so his conviction should be on that.

36:58 I think yours is more than that.

37:01 Yes, yes, you see what you are doing.

37:03 You also say that my Ta is Yaad,

37:05 Ta is Yaad, Qaid is ours, why not?

37:07 You know why my confidence has increased?

37:09 Because Faiz Jabi Daur is no more.

37:11 Ok, let's move forward.

37:12 Faiz Jabi Daur is over.

37:13 Now, a quick comment from the viewers.

37:15 We will also have a chart tomorrow,

37:17 you should also mention that.

37:19 You are a strategist, not a party worker.

37:22 As people say.

37:23 Ok, Chaudhary sahib, Nawaz Sharif sahib,

37:26 I would like to comment on Hassan Ayub,

37:29 I don't know why he makes such statements,

37:32 obviously, he is Mariam sahiba, he is the chief organizer for the party,

37:35 most of the people think that

37:37 respected Nawaz Sharif sahib should not make such comments.

37:40 Listen to this.

37:41 All the gatherings are there,

37:43 there are also samadhis, but there is complete peace.

37:46 The gatherings of the ladies are there,

37:49 and there is complete peace,

37:52 and there is no pressure or any dance.

37:57 This is not the culture of Pakistan.

38:00 This is a new culture of Pakistan.

38:03 When he came to Lahore,

38:05 after 4 years, he also commented there.

38:09 The serious columnists and commentators of Pakistan,

38:13 they said that this should not be done.

38:15 They are mainly talking about economic development,

38:17 what are they talking about the women?

38:19 No, no, they are saying that

38:21 they are taking the name of a party,

38:23 our women are sober, they sit comfortably.

38:25 I was a child,

38:27 we used to go to the market with my mother,

38:30 to the clothes shop,

38:32 at that time, if there was a woman,

38:34 women used to do their own clothes,

38:36 this was our culture, women used to wear burqa.

38:39 If someone had a dupatta around his neck,

38:41 and had short hair,

38:43 it looked very strange.

38:46 Today, if you go to the malls,

38:48 if a woman comes in a burqa,

38:50 people look at her in a very strange way.

38:52 So, society, things, generation gap,

38:54 there is a lot of difference.

38:56 So, Mr. Mian is a little old school.

38:58 Mr. Mian is old school,

39:00 he is a young man,

39:02 he will lead politics.

39:04 We have to go to the break.

39:06 There was a very sad incident

39:08 in the Lahore break.

39:10 We think it is appropriate to mention it.

39:12 Every house needs to keep this incident in mind,

39:16 talk to the children in the house,

39:18 how we have ruined our society,

39:20 that we give cars to children,

39:22 give them keys to go,

39:24 roam around,

39:26 and we are very proud of it.

39:28 See, my child is 14 years old,

39:30 so he is driving a Land Cruiser.

39:32 My child is 15 years old,

39:34 so he is sitting with him and taking pictures.

39:36 Mashallah, today a new Land Cruiser came in the house,

39:38 and he drove the car.

39:40 And what was the result of it?

39:42 After the break, we will talk about it in detail.

39:44 Welcome back.

39:46 Viewers are still accused.

39:48 There is a criminal,

39:50 he is a 17-year-old boy.

39:52 He is driving a car,

39:54 he was driving with friends.

39:56 He hit the car,

39:58 and in the car,

40:00 there were 6 members of the same family.

40:02 All 6 of them

40:04 fell in love with Allah.

40:06 The problem is that

40:08 when we are discussing this matter,

40:10 and what was the reason for it,

40:12 we will talk about it in detail.

40:14 It is very important for people to know

40:16 that we have to learn a lesson

40:18 while keeping this incident in mind.

40:20 As a nation,

40:22 we have to learn a lesson.

40:24 First of all, our reporter Nazir Batty

40:26 has prepared a small clip

40:28 about the incident.

40:30 Let's see the clip.

40:32 This is a sad incident

40:36 where 6 members of the same family

40:38 ran away

40:40 because a car of a criminal

40:42 hit them.

40:44 This is the place where

40:46 this incident took place.

40:48 We are present in this square.

40:50 We can see that the criminal came from this side.

40:52 The speed of the car

40:54 is 160 kmph.

40:56 The criminal said

40:58 that he was driving

41:00 at a speed of 110 kmph.

41:02 It is not possible

41:04 that he said that

41:06 he was driving at a speed of 110 kmph

41:08 because the road was narrow.

41:10 But this is not the case.

41:12 The roads are very open.

41:14 Two cars of the victim

41:16 were hit by the car

41:18 of the family of the victim.

41:20 The car of the victim

41:22 was hit here.

41:24 My cameraman Aftab

41:26 can show you that

41:28 he hit the car

41:30 from this place

41:32 and brought it here.

41:34 The car came here

41:36 and then

41:38 he dragged the car

41:40 to the front.

41:42 He brought the car here.

41:44 This is the place

41:46 where the car

41:48 was hit.

41:50 The car was hit

41:52 and the car

41:54 was hit.

41:56 The car was hit

41:58 and the car

42:00 was hit.

42:02 The car was hit

42:04 and the car

42:06 was hit.

42:08 The car was hit

42:10 and the car

42:12 was hit.

42:14 The car was hit

42:16 and the car

42:18 was hit.

42:20 The car was hit

42:22 and the car

42:24 was hit.

42:26 The car was hit

42:28 and the car

42:30 was hit.

42:32 The car was hit

42:34 and the car

42:36 was hit.

42:38 The car was hit

42:40 and the car

42:42 was hit.

42:44 The car was hit

42:46 and the car

42:48 was hit.

42:50 The car was hit

42:52 and the car

42:54 was hit.

42:56 The car was hit

42:58 and the car

43:00 was hit.

43:02 The car was hit

43:04 and the car

43:06 was hit.

43:08 The car was hit

43:10 and the car

43:12 was hit.

43:14 The car was hit

43:16 and the car

43:18 was hit.

43:20 The car was hit

43:22 and the car

43:24 was hit.

43:26 The car was hit

43:28 and the car

43:30 was hit.

43:32 The car was hit

43:34 and the car

43:36 was hit.

43:38 The car was hit

43:40 and the car

43:42 was hit.

43:44 The car was hit

43:46 and the car

43:48 was hit.

43:50 The car was hit

43:52 and the car

43:54 was hit.

43:56 The car was hit

43:58 and the car

44:00 was hit.

44:02 The car was hit

44:04 and the car

44:06 was hit.

44:08 The car was hit

44:10 and the car

44:12 was hit.

44:14 The car was hit

44:16 and the car

44:18 was hit.

44:20 The car was hit

44:22 and the car

44:24 was hit.

44:26 The car was hit

44:28 and the car

44:30 was hit.

44:32 The car was hit

44:34 and the car

44:36 was hit.

44:38 The car was hit

44:40 and the car

44:42 was hit.

44:44 The car was hit

44:46 and the car

44:48 was hit.

44:50 The car was hit

44:52 and the car

44:54 was hit.

44:56 The car was hit

44:58 and the car

45:00 was hit.

45:02 The car was hit

45:04 and the car

45:06 was hit.

45:08 The child is under 18 years of age.

45:10 The child is under 18 years of age.

45:12 The child is under 18 years of age.

45:14 The child is under 18 years of age.

45:16 The child's parents are equally responsible

45:18 for the issue.

45:20 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:22 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:24 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:26 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:28 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:30 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:32 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:34 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:36 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:38 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:40 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:42 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:44 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:46 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:48 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:50 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:52 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:54 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:56 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

45:58 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:00 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:02 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:04 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:06 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:08 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:10 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:12 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:14 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

46:16 The child's parents are equally responsible for the issue.

The Reporters | Khawar Ghumman & Chaudhry Ghulam Hussain | ARY News | 16th November 2023

Transcript

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