Full story: https://www.asiaone.com/singapore/former-drug-traffickers-share-how-death-penalty-remains-deterrent-singapore-ministry-home-affairs
Two former drug traffickers turned pastor and content creator share what life was like in Institution A1 at Changi Prison and Reformative Training Centre. They each recounted what the most memorable moment for them was in prison and revealed their take on the death penalty.
Two former drug traffickers turned pastor and content creator share what life was like in Institution A1 at Changi Prison and Reformative Training Centre. They each recounted what the most memorable moment for them was in prison and revealed their take on the death penalty.
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00:00 I was like, "I'm done with 55 years of that kind of life.
00:04 Is that what I want?"
00:06 At that point of time, I cannot turn back.
00:09 There are no more doors that I can open on my own.
00:13 This is when the fear comes back.
00:15 Hi, my name is Mohd Hyrule.
00:23 I'm 39 this year.
00:24 I was incarcerated last in 2011
00:28 and was released in 2019 for drug trafficking only.
00:31 Hello everyone, my name is Jacob.
00:33 I'm 41 this year.
00:35 I was incarcerated from 2006 to 2010
00:39 for trafficking, consumption and possession of controlled drugs.
00:43 So we are here today to share our story with you.
00:46 Okay Jacob, let me start the ball rolling by reading you the first question.
00:50 I was trafficking Aramin-5
00:56 but I dabbled with a little bit of ketamine and esthese as well.
00:59 During that time when I was caught
01:01 I just got a new batch of Aramin-5
01:03 and I was caught with 100 slabs of Aramin-5.
01:06 When I was caught back in 2011
01:09 I had 153 grams of heroin
01:12 200 grams of methamphetamine
01:14 and 10 slabs of so many drugs.
01:17 So now that you're out of prison
01:19 what does your everyday look like?
01:22 Everyday is very happy for me.
01:24 Occupancy occupied?
01:25 My job right now, I'm doing freelance content creation for clients
01:28 in terms of marketing campaigns.
01:30 Other than that, sometimes I do food delivery for a company.
01:34 I do freelance training as well.
01:36 How about you?
01:37 Currently, I'm a pastor with the Manderley Church in Singapore.
01:41 You know, you ask me if I've ever crossed my mind to be a pastor
01:43 I tell you, no.
01:44 One of the great things that I enjoy being a pastor is
01:46 the ability or the opportunity to talk to the different people
01:51 especially journeying with them in their lowest point in life.
01:55 What were other reasons that constantly propelled you to keep going back to drugs?
02:00 One thing about business, and let's say this is
02:02 also it's not a legal business
02:04 the thing about quality control.
02:05 We want the product to be the best in Singapore
02:09 so we will always make sure that we consume it
02:12 and then of course, you know, drugs, you will get hooked on.
02:14 You cannot escape it.
02:16 So the reason is for the quality control
02:18 and then you get hooked along the way, that's it, you cannot stop.
02:21 For the ones that I was dealing with, Aramin
02:24 your mind is wired to gravitate towards that element.
02:29 There's that element of addiction in play.
02:32 Did the death penalty restrict the amount you were willing to traffic?
02:37 We tried to find ways that then I will stay below the limit
02:42 just in order not to get myself into that situation.
02:46 So I think that even though the death penalty has a deterrent effect
02:50 it's like a prison sentence.
02:52 People still take risks.
02:53 Maybe you can talk about your times in prison.
02:56 You spent about ten years in prison, right?
02:59 After remission, eight years, four months.
03:02 Four months, and how was it like in prison for you?
03:06 What occupied your day?
03:09 I was sent directly to A1
03:11 and then over there, it's a single man cell.
03:14 It's not a good place to be in
03:17 because your environment
03:19 people who are serving life sentences
03:22 people who are serving sentences for murder cases
03:25 and people who are serving sentences for rape cases
03:29 it's like just a prawn in the sea.
03:31 Most of them are serving 20, 25, 28, 36
03:35 and some even 48.
03:37 I'm not saying that those people are bad influences
03:39 but I just don't want my mind to go lost.
03:44 So I had to read a lot, I had to pray a lot
03:47 just to maintain a little bit of sanity.
03:50 And then I realised, maybe I'm going.
03:53 This is the end of my road, I will not be seeing any more grass outside.
03:57 I will not be taking any more bus other than the black Maria.
04:00 So at that point of time, I cannot turn back.
04:04 There are no more doors that I can open on my own.
04:08 Then I was imagining things
04:10 imagining what does the rope feel like
04:12 how thick is the rope
04:13 what would it be like inside the cell of the condemned man.
04:17 There's no interaction whatsoever
04:19 there's no human touch at all.
04:21 Even when you cut hair, you have to be shackled
04:24 the barber cannot even touch your skin.
04:27 How about you, Jacob, where did you go?
04:28 My 18th birthday, I was sent into prison.
04:32 Then the second time was in Changi Prison.
04:34 I'll talk about the first one.
04:35 Reformative Training Centre put together a group
04:39 all the young offenders.
04:40 We all bring in our own brokenness
04:43 we all bring in our own gangsterism
04:46 and violent attitudes.
04:48 So inside there, it was quite a hostile place
04:52 staring at one another
04:53 keeping territory, keeping our turf
04:56 you mind your own business, I mind my own business.
04:58 But there were also conversations that were ongoing
05:01 but a bit guarded.
05:03 Did you have any thoughts of wanting to change?
05:07 In 2006, when I was caught again and sent to prison for six years
05:12 I was 25 and I was put in a three-man cell.
05:17 I remember one stark conversation that I had with an old man.
05:21 He was in his 80s
05:24 and he had been in and out of prison for countless times.
05:27 I asked him, "Hey, you don't want to change?"
05:30 He looked at me and he said, "You know, I'm too late already."
05:35 "I'm already 80 plus, what can I do outside?"
05:38 "I'm just prepared to die here and that's it, that's my life."
05:43 That sparked me thinking, "Do I want my life in that way?"
05:48 I was like, "I've been there for 55 years of that kind of life."
05:52 "Is that what I want?"
05:54 So I think, "Hmm, maybe not."
05:56 I wanted to make my life worth it.
05:58 I thought that religion would play a big part in guiding me.
06:03 So I did, I went for Christian counselling.
06:05 I spent one and a half years in their Christian programme
06:08 and that changed me quite a fair bit.
06:12 I think this will be a very dangerous move.
06:23 It will be worse for our community
06:25 and then there will be a lot of traffickers walking around
06:28 buying everything.
06:30 My take for death penalty is like prison penalty, it's a deterrent.
06:36 When the deterrent is removed
06:38 consideration of whether to do it or not is no longer a consideration.
06:43 You can just do it.
06:44 So the deterrent part, if it's removed, that will be an issue.
06:48 Drugs may be a bit more rampant.
06:51 But still, we are dealing with the risk-takers.
06:54 Even with the death penalty in place, people are willing to take risks.
06:58 If the question is asking whether I find that
07:01 is the death penalty fair for those that traffic large amounts of drugs
07:07 there will be different camps, schools of thought.
07:09 Because people that get caught have different stories.
07:13 So if you're asking me whether it is fair or not
07:16 a law is a law.
07:18 A law is meant to govern a society or even an individual
07:23 and the law is non-subjective, non-biased.
07:27 It is stated as such, it has to be stated as such.
07:31 So if we take a step back and remove these subjective stories
07:36 to look objectively at just the law
07:38 can the law achieve in the sense of the deterrent?
07:41 Then I don't think it's unfair
07:44 because you know what is written and you knowingly enter into it.
07:51 I think it's very damaging for the society.
07:54 It is very unhealthy because all of them are not working.
07:58 They are selling drugs instead.
08:00 The death penalty is a must.
08:03 It's a must to stop this person from bringing in that huge amount
08:09 to distribute it in three or four days.
08:11 So imagine one kilo of methamphetamine distributed, sold out in four days.
08:17 How much does that destroy the community?
08:21 If you have been dabbling in drugs, stop.
08:25 Whatever you are doing, stop.
08:27 So if you are given the opportunity
08:29 that you have been doing it a couple of times
08:32 not being caught, just stop.
08:35 Stop before you regret and waste your life in and out of prison.
08:43 If you want to change, you don't need to go through it alone.
08:46 There are people there to help you.
08:48 Family Service Centre is the first stop.
08:49 There are other social agencies that are willing to help you.
08:55 Thank you for watching our stories.
08:57 If you have any questions, leave them down in the comment box
09:00 and we will get back to you.
09:03 Bye bye.
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