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Transcript
00:00 Assalamu alaikum, viewers. You are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.
00:03 We have with us Mr. Abbasi, Mr. Shahid Kharkhan Abbasi.
00:06 Assalamu alaikum, Mr. Shahid.
00:08 Walaikum assalam.
00:09 Mr. Shahid, the PMLN politics is being discussed a lot these days
00:13 because there are difficulties in discussing the PTA politics.
00:17 Permission.
00:18 Permission. You will have a problem with permission.
00:20 Maybe you will have more than me.
00:25 Maybe we will have.
00:26 You know what the situation is these days. But because you are here and the PMLN politics is also here.
00:31 Tell me, you are not getting the ticket. You have not applied.
00:34 I have not applied. I had gone to the elections but I was not getting the ticket.
00:37 You are not even in the Noon League.
00:38 No, see today I have not resigned from the Noon League.
00:43 But it is only acceptable that I have not applied for the ticket.
00:47 That you are not even in the Noon League.
00:50 That I am not with the politics. That's the thing.
00:52 And you don't have your own party?
00:54 No, I don't have my own party.
00:55 Did you decide to launch it or not?
00:58 No, no, we had never decided to launch a party.
01:00 I still say that a party will be formed in Pakistan. One or maybe more than that.
01:04 Because the three old parties have no way out.
01:11 They cannot deliver anything for the people or for the country.
01:15 This is my personal opinion.
01:17 So, there is a place for a political party but that political party is not the same as the Reimagining Pakistan.
01:22 Yes, Reimagining Pakistan or some other forum can be formed.
01:26 But it will be formed. I think today it is a very big space for a community.
01:31 You have fought so many elections from the Muslim League Noon League.
01:34 Will you campaign for a candidate from the Muslim League Noon League?
01:37 No, it will be difficult.
01:39 Why?
01:41 If I had agreed with that politics, I would have fought the elections myself.
01:48 If Mr. Mian fights the elections, he has given a candidate, maybe I will fight, will you still not campaign?
01:53 No, there is no such thing.
01:55 If it happens, then?
01:56 No, this is a matter of if. If it happens, then.
01:58 If he fights, he will not need me.
02:01 He called you and said that Shahid Shahid will come back to the party.
02:04 No, no, no, there is no such thing.
02:06 I think he has also said goodbye to you.
02:08 No, it is not a matter of goodbye.
02:10 My opinion was very clear.
02:13 I spoke to him twice.
02:18 I think we consider each other very old.
02:20 He has always been kind.
02:24 So, your people did not understand.
02:26 No, whatever you want to understand.
02:30 So, both sides are refusing.
02:32 You do not want to go, that too to bring you.
02:34 It is not a matter of refusal.
02:35 Sir, how easy it is, Mr. Shahid calls you and says,
02:37 Mr. Shahid, you have been with us for 35-40 years.
02:39 In the most difficult times, you have spent time in jail.
02:41 You have been with us for a long time.
02:43 Leave it, let him come back to the party.
02:45 Those things that have happened between us,
02:47 they stay there.
02:49 But I think my position was very clear to him.
02:52 I will not be able to fight.
02:55 And I will not be able to stay in the party.
02:57 And he also feels that there is no point in calling you.
02:59 No, it is his will.
03:01 When he calls, I am present.
03:03 But it will not be possible for me to fight.
03:07 Tell me, Mr. Shahid, if you are not there,
03:09 you are not there,
03:11 even today Rana Sinhaullah was saying
03:13 that he has a very experienced team.
03:15 Where is the team?
03:17 If you think you cannot fix it?
03:19 It is not about fixing it.
03:22 I do not agree with the way it is being taken.
03:26 Which way?
03:27 The way of power.
03:29 The way of power, when politics,
03:31 The way of power, when politics,
03:33 which has been established,
03:35 but the way of power, which is not,
03:37 is always unsuccessful.
03:39 So I have a little ...
03:41 This is not an impression.
03:43 Let's be fair.
03:45 Before boarding the London flight,
03:47 he knew what would happen in Pakistan.
03:49 I will not be arrested.
03:51 There will be relief in the case.
03:53 The party, going to places,
03:55 saying that the crown of the beloved
03:57 has now been worn by the husband,
03:59 that is not an impression.
04:01 This speculation always remains
04:03 that what happened, what did not happen.
04:05 This is politics.
04:07 It is said by looking at the situation.
04:09 Why does not the People's Party say
04:11 that the beloved is king?
04:13 Because looking at the situation,
04:15 it does not seem that the People's Party ...
04:17 Four months ago, they used to say
04:19 that they have become beloved.
04:21 These things continue to happen.
04:23 In the last election, in the 2018 election,
04:25 when someone is selected,
04:27 and when someone is crowned,
04:29 then there are some works for it.
04:31 Why are you saying it is an impression?
04:33 I have never said that.
04:35 The problem is not that I have said it.
04:37 You did not say that.
04:39 You said that elections are being stolen.
04:41 Before the election, there was a briefing.
04:43 I said that we have not learned the lesson
04:45 from the past.
04:47 Today, you are breaking a party
04:49 and getting people in another party.
04:51 It was four months before the election.
04:53 We knew it at that time.
04:55 We used to say that.
04:57 It used to happen in that election too.
04:59 If it happens like this, it will be a loss.
05:01 I do not want to speculate on this.
05:03 But we have seen a lot of these things
05:05 in the last 35 years.
05:07 And it has always been a loss.
05:09 The country has also suffered a loss.
05:11 The people who are involved in this
05:13 also suffer a loss.
05:15 Politics is also bad.
05:17 The country is also bad.
05:19 I have never seen anything positive in this.
05:21 Even after so many elections,
05:25 will the majority not be able to take the election?
05:27 The majority is very difficult for any party.
05:29 This is my opinion.
05:31 You are running alone in a race in Punjab.
05:33 It seems that the opponent
05:35 may not even get a bullet mark.
05:37 The MPA who was with you today,
05:39 Mr. Abasi,
05:41 he also left the party.
05:43 Not me.
05:45 Not Abasi, but the deputy speaker who was also there.
05:47 Yes, he was from Pindi.
05:49 I had a little connection with him.
05:51 He had a connection with Kota.
05:53 So, he also left the party today.
05:55 There is no one left. Who will fight?
05:57 You will run alone.
05:59 Yes.
06:01 There was a Peer in our circle.
06:03 We used to go to him.
06:05 In the election.
06:07 He used to say,
06:09 may God make everyone successful.
06:11 May God make everyone who is fighting,
06:13 successful.
06:15 So, you are saying that the PMLN
06:17 will not get the majority.
06:19 I think that no party will be able to take it.
06:21 It will be difficult.
06:23 Yesterday, Mr. Ali Fabasi said,
06:25 if we do not get the majority,
06:27 we will sit in the opposition,
06:29 not in the government.
06:31 Do you think this is the first thing?
06:33 Mr. Abasi is very close.
06:35 You know that Mr. Shabaz is very close.
06:37 Mr. Mian is also very close.
06:39 Will this party policy also be made in the coming days?
06:41 I do not know about this.
06:43 What is your opinion?
06:45 No party does this.
06:47 Every party tries to form a coalition
06:49 and form a government.
06:51 And now, the Muslim League is trying
06:53 to form a coalition.
06:55 This is a positive way.
06:57 There is a contact with the MQM.
06:59 There is a contact with the Baab Party.
07:01 There is a contact with the JUI.
07:03 So, this coalition is being formed
07:05 from now itself.
07:07 The coalition is being formed,
07:09 but you are not taking this statement
07:11 very seriously.
07:13 I take every statement of Mr. Fabasi
07:15 very seriously.
07:17 But I do not think that politics is like this.
07:19 I have not seen politics of anger.
07:21 The 2018 model is also there.
07:23 There was an election, there was no Sariyat.
07:25 There was a government and it was
07:27 a very unstable government.
07:29 Maybe the Muslim League has also decided
07:31 that if we want to govern like this,
07:33 then what is the need to govern?
07:35 There was no instability.
07:37 What was the problem with Imran Khan?
07:39 Sir, you were watching what was happening
07:41 in the assembly.
07:43 What happened in the assembly?
07:45 There was a protest every day
07:47 on the side of the elected.
07:49 What happened in the assembly?
07:51 Imran Khan himself started
07:53 taking out abuses on the first day.
07:55 He was abusing from the first day.
07:57 The first day was not allowed to give a speech.
07:59 And that is why the elections were rigged.
08:01 This happens in the parliament.
08:03 So, will the system work like this
08:05 after 2024?
08:07 The opposition will be there in every situation.
08:09 Don't you see the national government?
08:11 PDM 2 type.
08:13 It does not make any difference.
08:15 Sir, look,
08:17 the MQM is on board.
08:19 GDA is on board.
08:21 JUIF is on board.
08:23 People's Party is out.
08:25 Now you know that they will fight the elections
08:27 and then some issues will be solved.
08:29 So, there will be a government without the opposition.
08:31 You have seen the 16 months.
08:33 There was a government without the opposition.
08:35 My brother was a member of the state opposition.
08:37 Was it a successful model?
08:39 What do you think?
08:41 Was it successful?
08:43 I don't think so.
08:45 If such a government is formed.
08:47 You are saying that there will be no obstruction to the government.
08:49 There was no obstruction to the government.
08:51 Despite that, those things cannot be done.
08:53 Those extreme things should not have been done.
08:55 There are not even three.
08:57 Let's come to this side.
08:59 Let's be honest.
09:01 Your most important ministry is
09:03 Finance in any government.
09:05 Because all the economic problems are the biggest.
09:07 That is present. Mr. Dar is present.
09:09 When Mr. Mifta Ismail was there,
09:11 Mr. Dar used to cut Mr. Mifta Ismail's legs.
09:13 He doesn't know anything.
09:15 When Mr. Dar came, Mr. Mifta Ismail asked him what he was doing.
09:17 Everyone has their own opinion.
09:19 You, Mr. Daniyal, say that
09:21 Mr. Iqbal doesn't know anything.
09:23 This is a part of the Jamaat.
09:25 It is not like that.
09:27 Your own Jamaat is saying about its own team
09:29 that no one knows anything.
09:31 This is not the case in the Jamaat.
09:33 There is a disagreement on one or two things.
09:35 There is a personal disagreement.
09:37 There is a disagreement of opinion.
09:39 People talk in politics.
09:41 I say that Allah will do.
09:43 Did Mr. Dar deliver correctly
09:45 till he was the Minister of Treasury?
09:47 You will see the effects of that in the election.
09:49 Tell me openly.
09:51 I will have my own opinion.
09:53 I am asking for your opinion.
09:55 You will see that opinion.
09:57 So you think that Mr. Dar is a failed
09:59 Minister of Treasury.
10:01 No, I don't say that.
10:03 You have said that Pakistan's best
10:05 Minister of Treasury was Mr. Mifta Ismail.
10:07 Mr. Mifta Ismail has the knowledge,
10:09 academic background,
10:11 experience in the private sector,
10:13 public sector,
10:15 political system.
10:17 I think you have a well-built
10:19 Minister of Treasury.
10:21 He was.
10:23 He is still there.
10:25 He left the party.
10:27 He didn't leave the party.
10:29 He is not a part of this system.
10:31 He is OSD.
10:33 He is OSD.
10:35 We are all OSD.
10:37 What will all the OSD do?
10:39 Do you expect people to come out of the
10:41 back door?
10:43 No, no.
10:45 If there is no political coincidence,
10:47 then it is fine.
10:49 It is your own thought.
10:51 Till when does this system,
10:53 let's say, a government is formed in 2024.
10:55 How long?
10:57 You have seen so many assemblies.
10:59 How long do you think it will last?
11:01 Who do you call to run?
11:03 If the elections are disputed,
11:05 and people do not accept it,
11:07 then the government
11:09 will not be able to do anything
11:11 even after five years.
11:13 Governments run on moral authority.
11:15 If there is a stolen election,
11:17 no government will come.
11:19 What was the problem of Imran Khan?
11:21 It was a stolen election.
11:23 The foundation was on theft.
11:25 So that matter did not work.
11:27 Will this be a stolen election?
11:29 No, may God forbid.
11:31 I am not saying that.
11:33 Let me say something.
11:35 There are three types of times
11:37 in an election.
11:39 There is a pre-poll time,
11:41 a polling day time,
11:43 and a post-poll time.
11:45 You have seen all three times.
11:47 When you were in 2018,
11:49 there was a pre-poll time.
11:51 When South Punjab became a
11:53 major city, when people were
11:55 taken seats, and when it was
11:57 broken, etc.
11:59 It is still happening.
12:01 You can compare it.
12:03 There is no doubt about it.
12:05 If you say pre-poll rigging,
12:07 it started in 2017
12:09 when the decision
12:11 was taken to collect votes.
12:13 Then the elections started.
12:15 Then the assembly was broken.
12:17 Then the Bab Party came.
12:19 It was a whole series.
12:21 If you say that
12:23 those things are still happening,
12:25 or have been happening,
12:27 then we should be careful.
12:29 You will not talk about
12:31 the 23-24 elections
12:33 as you have been doing
12:35 since 2017-18.
12:37 The decisions are still coming.
12:39 The decisions are coming.
12:41 The decisions are coming.
12:43 What can I say?
12:45 You were very clear about the
12:47 last elections.
12:49 When the elections came,
12:51 what decisions were made?
12:53 Chairman Tariq Khan and Imran Khan
12:55 have been punished.
12:57 The Pakistan Party,
12:59 which you call Bab,
13:01 has become Pakistan.
13:03 You are seeing it.
13:05 Do you want to say anything?
13:07 The whole of Pakistan is watching.
13:09 But if you talk about
13:11 the cases of Mian Washir,
13:13 they were fake.
13:15 They should have been finished
13:17 long before.
13:19 Tosha Khanna is a good case.
13:21 If the court decides,
13:23 they will take the case.
13:25 No, the court has already
13:27 done it.
13:29 The trial court has already punished.
13:31 In my opinion,
13:33 the lawyers who were right
13:35 did not fight the case.
13:37 This is my opinion about it.
13:39 Whatever decision comes,
13:41 you should have given your arguments
13:43 in the case, you should have talked.
13:45 That did not happen.
13:47 The technical flaws that have remained,
13:49 they will be useful in the appeal.
13:51 Let's see.
13:53 You are seeing a lot of work
13:55 going on in the appeals.
13:57 But the problem is that
13:59 you have a very clear view on the case.
14:01 You are saying that the case of these cases
14:03 is clear.
14:05 You will have clarity about the other case too.
14:07 But it will be difficult to give you
14:09 clarity today.
14:11 We will talk to you after five years.
14:13 You will ask me after five years.
14:15 I will give you clarity.
14:17 You will be more clear.
14:19 Sir, where did this vote go?
14:21 Sir, what do you mean by that?
14:23 There should be public opinion.
14:25 This is the thing.
14:27 I am also saying the same thing.
14:29 If we do not respect the public opinion
14:31 in the election,
14:33 and the election becomes controversial,
14:35 then it will be very difficult to run the country.
14:37 We should realize this.
14:39 I am just saying this.
14:41 Let's see.
14:43 Obviously, we will talk about this
14:45 openly after five years.
14:47 We will do it before that.
14:49 Let the elections happen.
14:51 I am saying that we should be careful.
14:53 The Election Commission should be careful.
14:55 The government should be careful.
14:57 The level playing field is in the market.
14:59 In your opinion.
15:01 What do you mean by level playing field?
15:03 If you are not hopeful,
15:05 like you are leaving the hopefuls.
15:07 The Jamaat.
15:09 History will tell you why you are leaving them.
15:11 Today, a person himself is saying
15:13 that he will fight the new election.
15:15 He will participate in the new election.
15:17 He is leaving the party.
15:19 This has happened in the past.
15:21 What are the effects of this?
15:23 I am just saying that we should
15:25 always learn from the past.
15:27 We are convinced of repeating the old mistakes.
15:29 Yes, then you will get the same results.
15:31 Maybe you will get better results.
15:33 Tell me, Mr. Ishaq,
15:35 who is Noor's opponent in Punjab?
15:37 In Punjab,
15:41 Noor and PTI
15:43 will be competing.
15:45 Who is the third-most popular party?
15:47 The third-most popular party
15:51 is the Ishtekam Party.
15:53 There are electable candidates in that party.
15:55 Who are they?
15:57 There are many people.
15:59 Tell me the name of the electable candidate.
16:01 Sarwar Khan is the electable candidate.
16:03 He is the electable candidate.
16:05 I don't know if Fawad Chaudhary is in that party.
16:09 He was also an electable candidate.
16:11 You know the cities of J&T Road.
16:13 There is Ali Khan.
16:15 There are people from all over Punjab.
16:17 Lahore, J&T Road,
16:19 these are the votes of the parties.
16:21 These are the odd constituencies
16:23 where the votes of the people are counted.
16:25 There is a small constituency in the north and central Punjab.
16:27 There are a few small constituencies.
16:29 You can go to Murree.
16:31 You have won 6-7 elections.
16:33 You have been winning elections since 1988.
16:35 But there, largely,
16:37 the votes are of the party.
16:39 The votes of the people are not there.
16:41 So, here, the electable candidate,
16:43 Mr. Aleem Khan from Lahore,
16:45 he will not be electable.
16:47 He will be elected only if he gets the party vote.
16:49 Time will tell.
16:51 Let the elections happen.
16:53 Now, here, there is Ali Nawaz.
16:55 He is sitting in this constituency.
16:57 Is he electable?
16:59 I don't know.
17:01 He is in the party.
17:03 The decision of the electable candidate
17:05 will be made by the people who vote here.
17:07 So, if there is no PTI in Punjab,
17:09 then how many seats should the Muslim League
17:11 take out from 140 seats?
17:13 If there is no PTI,
17:15 then 10-15 seats.
17:17 This is a very difficult task.
17:19 I am asking you, how much competition
17:21 do you see in Punjab?
17:23 This will be known in the elections.
17:25 Let the election schedule be announced.
17:27 Let's see which candidates come.
17:29 Does it matter?
17:31 I think that the symbol,
17:33 as you said, is the vote of the party.
17:35 The symbol matters.
17:37 If you leave the south,
17:39 then there are two parties.
17:41 There is no third party in Punjab
17:43 who is not capable of putting a dent.
17:45 There is a vote of TLP in every constituency.
17:47 It is a damaging vote.
17:49 Whoever it goes to,
17:51 it will swing.
17:53 But it will not be a winning vote.
17:55 It has effects.
17:57 They can affect elections.
17:59 It can damage,
18:01 or defeat someone.
18:03 And there can be a trade-off
18:05 on the seat of the party.
18:07 Because TLP's vote in many
18:09 constituencies is such that
18:11 it can win the seat of the party.
18:13 It is a sizable vote.
18:15 If there is an adjustment
18:17 with the candidate of the party,
18:19 then it can win.
18:21 But that adjustment will be at the
18:23 political party level, which is not yet visible.
18:25 It happens at the local level.
18:27 If there is no PTI,
18:29 there are 100 seats in the
18:31 central and north.
18:33 It will look like PM LN
18:35 is running the elections alone.
18:37 If he is running alone,
18:39 then the election will not happen.
18:41 If he does not win,
18:43 then what will happen?
18:45 If he runs alone in the race
18:47 and comes in second,
18:49 then what will happen?
18:51 Then the system will be damaged.
18:53 Let's say that his seats are 25,
18:55 and you know that
18:57 it was not a free run.
18:59 What will you do?
19:01 You will have to accept the results of the election.
19:03 Now, the party is also talking
19:05 about the election.
19:07 PTI is also talking about it.
19:09 If there is no level playing field,
19:11 then Mr. Mian will not have the option
19:13 to complain.
19:15 But at this time,
19:17 complaints can be made later.
19:19 You keep saying that
19:21 economy is the problem.
19:23 Not a single party has the solutions.
19:25 What solutions are available?
19:27 The solutions are to run the government.
19:29 The economy is linked
19:31 to the political process.
19:33 If the political process is not stable
19:35 and there is a dispute,
19:37 then the economy will not improve.
19:39 Do you believe in another
19:41 charter of democracy type?
19:43 The matter has gone beyond the charter.
19:45 Now you have to talk about the specifics.
19:47 That is why I keep saying
19:49 that this matter should be discussed
19:51 before the elections.
19:53 Decide how the matter will proceed.
19:55 If you want to do a diggory,
19:57 you have to do radical reform in the country.
19:59 You have to change the governance system
20:01 continuously.
20:03 You have to reform the FBR,
20:05 Lajliya, except for the government.
20:07 I am saying that the matter is far beyond
20:09 reform.
20:11 Our current situation is that
20:13 we have to put this person in this position.
20:15 No one has the ability
20:17 to handle this matter
20:19 because the system is bad.
20:21 You have to change the system.
20:23 For that, you need support from everyone.
20:25 You have to see the matters of the provinces.
20:27 Are the provinces going to be running?
20:29 The people have more
20:31 relationship with the economy than the provinces.
20:33 If the provinces do not run,
20:35 the people will not get relief.
20:37 You have to see all these things.
20:39 Do you need more provinces or not?
20:41 This has to be decided today.
20:43 Sir, but this is a political party
20:45 that is on the force.
20:47 Nobody wants to sit down with those
20:49 who are down at the moment.
20:51 This is not possible.
20:53 I have not talked in detail about this.
20:55 But the thing is that
20:57 the party that is on the force today
20:59 should think about this.
21:01 Tomorrow when the situation gets better,
21:03 only that party will get the credit.
21:05 Because there is no income
21:07 in their small party.
21:09 Whenever you have a constitutional amendment,
21:11 you will need a constitutional amendment.
21:13 For that, you need support from everyone.
21:15 It has happened in FATA.
21:17 When the FATA bill was passed,
21:19 there was a constitutional amendment,
21:21 all the parties supported it.
21:23 The government was going to be in power
21:25 in six weeks.
21:27 All these things are possible.
21:29 Is there any intention in the system
21:31 to do this in our political parties?
21:33 Sir, there is no intention.
21:35 We will have to create an intention.
21:37 This is leadership.
21:39 What else is leadership?
21:41 To come to power, to take the chair,
21:43 to become the Prime Minister.
21:45 No, no, no.
21:47 That leadership is unsuccessful.
21:49 This is what we call leadership.
21:51 Everyone has to think about this.
21:53 Sir, you know our politics better.
21:55 It is all about winning the current elections
21:57 and coming to power.
21:59 That is what Pakistani politics is all about.
22:01 Sir, no one has thought about
22:03 what to do in the future.
22:05 You have seen the results.
22:07 But why are we still not learning?
22:09 You do not have the opportunity to learn.
22:11 You will have to learn.
22:13 You will have to do it.
22:15 Every party has failed in the government.
22:17 Your problems have increased so much
22:19 that no one can solve them.
22:21 You will have to understand this.
22:23 I am sorry to say that
22:25 no party has been able to solve
22:27 the problems of the country.
22:29 We can see the results of the elections.
22:31 It is okay that the elections are going on.
22:33 But what will happen after that?
22:35 What will happen on 9th February?
22:37 But sir, in the end,
22:39 you are saying that no one can solve this.
22:41 But no one has done this historically.
22:43 And you have been saying this for so long
22:45 that no one has reached out to you.
22:47 You are saying this right.
22:49 Let's build on this.
22:51 No, no one has reached out.
22:53 This is what I am sad about.
22:55 There used to be space in the past.
22:57 There was space in politics.
22:59 There was space in the nation.
23:01 The matter used to go on.
23:03 Although we were still
23:05 in a state of decline.
23:07 But not at the rate
23:09 that has happened in the last 5-6 years.
23:11 So now there is no scope.
23:13 There is no scope.
23:15 Is it necessary to revisit the NFC
23:17 in the 18th February to
23:19 fix the economic system?
23:21 Either you should revisit it
23:23 or change the relationship
23:25 between the province and the government.
23:27 Financial relationship
23:29 or other relationship?
23:31 No, the whole relationship.
23:33 What will the province do?
23:35 What will the government do?
23:37 What are its responsibilities?
23:39 What are the responsibilities?
23:41 Electricity is being stolen in the morning.
23:43 And the police are not doing anything.
23:45 What will Wafaa do?
23:47 It has a responsibility.
23:49 We have given the province the power,
23:51 the resources, but not the responsibilities.
23:53 More taxes than us,
23:55 each city of India collects.
23:57 I was listening to Mr. Mifta Ismail
23:59 that Pune collects more taxes than Pakistan.
24:01 Here we see that
24:03 Tehran collects its own taxes.
24:05 Look at London, who collects taxes.
24:07 We don't have a system of tax collection
24:09 for the province.
24:11 We don't have a system of tax collection
24:13 for the province.
24:15 We say that the voters will be against us.
24:17 How long will this system work?
24:19 So we need a new social contract.
24:21 This is a new social contract.
24:23 I am saying that
24:25 the relationship between the province
24:27 and Wafaa,
24:29 the relationship with the institutions,
24:31 the system of governance,
24:33 you should change it.
24:35 This system is not
24:37 working.
24:39 This system cannot work.
24:41 This system cannot work.
24:43 We need a change.
24:45 Thank you very much.
24:47 We will come back after the break.
24:49 Welcome back.
24:51 Ali Zafar is with us.
24:53 Ali Zafar, Assalam-o-Alaikum.
24:55 Wa-Alaikum-Salaam.
24:57 Ali Zafar,
24:59 the intra-party elections
25:01 have become a bit of a
25:03 red flag.
25:05 I was watching
25:07 Ahmed Bilal Mahboob
25:09 and he wrote that there are red flags,
25:11 there are many loopholes,
25:13 petitions are being filed.
25:15 Couldn't PTI make this election
25:17 more credible by opening it
25:19 and inviting
25:21 people to fight?
25:23 There should have been a scrutiny.
25:25 You should have completed the whole process.
25:27 But you left yourself at the mercy of the election commission.
25:29 First of all,
25:33 the PTI's 2019
25:35 constitution
25:37 has been
25:39 in accordance with the rules
25:41 that were made.
25:43 The elections were a very simple process.
25:45 The process is that
25:47 one election is for the chairman
25:49 and then the other election
25:51 is for the panel.
25:53 You cannot fight the elections alone.
25:55 All the secret voting is done.
25:57 If no one comes to fight
25:59 the elections on the other side,
26:01 and if the panel
26:03 does not present their vote,
26:05 then they become unopposed.
26:07 You are talking of constitution.
26:09 Let me give you
26:11 another model.
26:13 In our country,
26:15 Imran Khan used to say that
26:17 there are dictatorships in these parties.
26:19 There are fiefdoms in these parties.
26:21 On whom they put their hand.
26:23 If there is no father, there will be no daughter.
26:25 If there is no son, there will be no brother.
26:27 If there is no uncle, there will be no uncle.
26:29 This election,
26:31 which you used to talk about morals and ethics,
26:33 should not have been better.
26:35 You say that technically we have done it right.
26:37 But morally and ethically
26:39 this election should have been right.
26:41 Morally and ethically it was absolutely right.
26:43 We had made an amendment
26:45 in our constitution
26:47 in 2019.
26:49 We had changed
26:51 our constitution
26:53 in 2022.
26:55 We had said that
26:57 we will do it
26:59 according to the new constitution
27:01 which had more elaborate procedure
27:03 and more participation.
27:05 We will do it according to that.
27:07 We did it.
27:09 But the election commission of Pakistan
27:11 said that we do not believe
27:13 in the election you did.
27:15 You should do it according to the original
27:17 constitution of 2019.
27:19 This election was done for the election commission.
27:21 Yes.
27:23 This election was done for the election commission.
27:25 Yes.
27:27 Yes, absolutely for the election commission.
27:29 Otherwise, we did not need it.
27:31 We had done it.
27:33 We had given all the documents.
27:35 But they did not agree.
27:37 You are talking about
27:39 family politics.
27:41 When I met
27:43 Imran Khan
27:45 and I suggested to him
27:47 that we should
27:49 have an intra-party election
27:51 and you should not fight in it.
27:53 You should not fight in it.
27:55 He asked me for suggestions.
27:57 I told him that
27:59 I have received suggestions
28:01 from different circles
28:03 that you should have a relative
28:05 from your family.
28:07 He did not hesitate
28:09 to reject it.
28:11 He said that he was against it.
28:13 He said that he was against it.
28:15 He said that he was against it.
28:17 He said that he was against it.
28:19 He said that he was against it.
28:21 He said that he was against it.
28:23 He said that he was against it.
28:25 He said that he was against it.
28:27 He said that he was against it.
28:29 He said that he was against it.
28:31 He said that he was against it.
28:33 He said that he was against it.
28:35 He said that he was against it.
28:37 He said that he was against it.
28:39 He said that he was against it.
28:41 He said that he was against it.
28:43 He said that he was against it.
28:45 He said that he was against it.
28:47 He said that he was against it.
28:49 He said that he was against it.
28:51 He said that he was against it.
28:53 He said that he was against it.
28:55 He said that he was against it.
28:57 He said that he was against it.
28:59 He said that he was against it.
29:01 He said that he was against it.
29:03 He said that he was against it.
29:05 He said that he was against it.
29:07 He said that he was against it.
29:09 He said that he was against it.
29:11 He said that he was against it.
29:13 He said that he was against it.
29:15 He said that he was against it.
29:17 He said that he was against it.
29:19 He said that he was against it.
29:21 He said that he was against it.
29:23 He said that he was against it.
29:25 He said that he was against it.
29:27 He said that he was against it.
29:29 He said that he was against it.
29:31 He said that he was against it.
29:33 He said that he was against it.
29:35 He said that he was against it.
29:37 He said that he was against it.
29:39 He said that he was against it.
29:41 He said that he was against it.
29:43 He said that he was against it.
29:45 He said that he was against it.
29:47 He said that he was against it.
29:49 He said that he was against it.
29:51 He said that he was against it.
29:53 He said that he was against it.
29:55 He said that he was against it.
29:57 He said that he was against it.
29:59 He said that he was against it.
30:01 He said that he was against it.
30:03 He said that he was against it.
30:05 He said that he was against it.
30:07 He said that he was against it.
30:09 He said that he was against it.
30:11 He said that he was against it.
30:13 He said that he was against it.
30:15 He said that he was against it.
30:17 He said that he was against it.
30:19 He said that he was against it.
30:21 He said that he was against it.
30:23 He said that he was against it.
30:25 He said that he was against it.
30:27 He said that he was against it.
30:29 He said that he was against it.
30:31 He said that he was against it.
30:33 He said that he was against it.
30:35 He said that he was against it.
30:37 He said that he was against it.
30:39 He said that he was against it.
30:41 He said that he was against it.
30:43 He said that he was against it.
30:45 He said that he was against it.
30:47 He said that he was against it.
30:49 He said that he was against it.
30:51 He said that he was against it.
30:53 He said that he was against it.
30:55 He said that he was against it.
30:57 He said that he was against it.
30:59 He said that he was against it.
31:01 He said that he was against it.
31:03 He said that he was against it.
31:05 He said that he was against it.
31:07 He said that he was against it.
31:09 He said that he was against it.
31:11 He said that he was against it.
31:13 He said that he was against it.
31:15 He said that he was against it.
31:17 He said that he was against it.
31:19 He said that he was against it.
31:21 He said that he was against it.
31:23 He said that he was against it.
31:25 He said that he was against it.
31:27 He said that he was against it.
31:29 He said that he was against it.
31:31 He said that he was against it.
31:33 He said that he was against it.
31:35 He said that he was against it.
31:37 He said that he was against it.
31:39 He said that he was against it.
31:41 He said that he was against it.
31:43 He said that he was against it.
31:45 He said that he was against it.
31:47 He said that he was against it.
31:49 He said that he was against it.
31:51 He said that he was against it.
31:53 He said that he was against it.
31:55 He said that he was against it.
31:57 He said that he was against it.
31:59 He said that he was against it.
32:01 He said that he was against it.
32:03 He said that he was against it.
32:05 He said that he was against it.
32:07 He said that he was against it.
32:09 He said that he was against it.
32:11 He said that he was against it.
32:13 He said that he was against it.
32:15 He said that he was against it.
32:17 He said that he was against it.
32:19 He said that he was against it.
32:21 He said that he was against it.
32:23 He said that he was against it.
32:25 He said that he was against it.
32:27 He said that he was against it.
32:29 He said that he was against it.
32:31 He said that he was against it.
32:33 He said that he was against it.
32:35 He said that he was against it.
32:37 He said that he was against it.
32:39 He said that he was against it.
32:41 He said that he was against it.
32:43 He said that he was against it.
32:45 He said that he was against it.
32:47 He said that he was against it.
32:49 He said that he was against it.
32:51 He said that he was against it.
32:53 He said that he was against it.
32:55 He said that he was against it.
32:57 He said that he was against it.
32:59 He said that he was against it.
33:01 He said that he was against it.
33:03 He said that he was against it.
33:05 He said that he was against it.
33:07 He said that he was against it.
33:09 He said that he was against it.
33:11 He said that he was against it.
33:13 He said that he was against it.
33:15 He said that he was against it.
33:17 He said that he was against it.
33:19 He said that he was against it.
33:21 He said that he was against it.
33:23 He said that he was against it.
33:25 He said that he was against it.
33:27 He said that he was against it.
33:29 He said that he was against it.
33:31 He said that he was against it.
33:33 He said that he was against it.
33:35 He said that he was against it.
33:37 He said that he was against it.
33:39 He said that he was against it.
33:41 He said that he was against it.
33:43 He said that he was against it.
33:45 He said that he was against it.
33:47 He said that he was against it.
33:49 He said that he was against it.
33:51 He said that he was against it.
33:53 He said that he was against it.
33:55 He said that he was against it.
33:57 He said that he was against it.
33:59 He said that he was against it.
34:01 He said that he was against it.
34:03 He said that he was against it.
34:05 He said that he was against it.
34:07 He said that he was against it.
34:09 He said that he was against it.
34:11 He said that he was against it.
34:13 He said that he was against it.
34:15 He said that he was against it.
34:17 He said that he was against it.
34:19 He said that he was against it.
34:21 He said that he was against it.
34:23 He said that he was against it.
34:25 He said that he was against it.
34:27 He said that he was against it.
34:29 He said that he was against it.
34:31 He said that he was against it.
34:33 He said that he was against it.
34:35 He said that he was against it.
34:37 He said that he was against it.
34:39 He said that he was against it.
34:41 He said that he was against it.
34:43 He said that he was against it.
34:45 He said that he was against it.
34:47 He said that he was against it.
34:49 He said that he was against it.
34:51 He said that he was against it.
34:53 He said that he was against it.
34:55 He said that he was against it.
34:57 He said that he was against it.
34:59 He said that he was against it.
35:01 He said that he was against it.
35:03 He said that he was against it.
35:05 He said that he was against it.
35:07 He said that he was against it.
35:09 He said that he was against it.
35:11 He said that he was against it.
35:13 He said that he was against it.
35:15 He said that he was against it.
35:17 He said that he was against it.
35:19 He said that he was against it.
35:21 He said that he was against it.
35:23 He said that he was against it.
35:25 He said that he was against it.
35:27 He said that he was against it.
35:29 He said that he was against it.
35:31 He said that he was against it.
35:33 He said that he was against it.
35:35 He said that he was against it.
35:37 He said that he was against it.
35:39 He said that he was against it.
35:41 He said that he was against it.
35:43 He said that he was against it.
35:45 He said that he was against it.
35:47 He said that he was against it.
35:49 He said that he was against it.
35:51 He said that he was against it.
35:53 He said that he was against it.
35:55 He said that he was against it.
35:57 He said that he was against it.
35:59 He said that he was against it.
36:01 He said that he was against it.
36:03 He said that he was against it.
36:05 He said that he was against it.
36:07 He said that he was against it.
36:09 He said that he was against it.
36:11 He said that he was against it.
36:13 He said that he was against it.
36:15 He said that he was against it.
36:17 He said that he was against it.
36:19 He said that he was against it.
36:21 I don't think that everyone is expecting that Imran Khan will win.
36:27 But there has never been a discussion on this.
36:31 The first stage is that you win the election.
36:35 Obviously, if PTI wins the election,
36:39 which will win,
36:41 then the leader, Imran Khan will be the Prime Minister.
36:45 But there are legal restrictions.
36:47 So, there will be problems.
36:49 There are legal restrictions.
36:51 There are legal restrictions.
36:53 You know that there is a debate on that.
36:55 You know that there is a debate on that.
36:57 If the order is suspended,
36:59 then there is no legal change.
37:01 Yes, there are cases.
37:03 But the cases are allegations.
37:05 The cases have not yet been converted into convictions.
37:07 Do you have any fear of the election commission?
37:13 You have been saying that the first election was right.
37:17 You have been saying that the first election was right.
37:19 Do you have any fear that they will not let us win the elections?
37:23 Do you have any fear that they will not let us win the elections?
37:25 If we talk about the law, there is no danger.
37:31 But there are doubts.
37:33 We had a lot of doubts that they will force you to run for the elections again.
37:41 We did not believe it.
37:43 But when the rumour increased,
37:45 the order was not coming.
37:47 The oral order was announced.
37:49 When the order was written,
37:51 it was against it.
37:53 The rumours were true.
37:55 Now, rumours are coming again.
37:57 But there is no legal scope.
37:59 They can do anything.
38:01 Rumours are normal in this country.
38:03 If they do, it will be a very beautiful thing.
38:05 If they do, it will be a very beautiful thing.
38:07 We will challenge it.
38:09 Because the courts are present.
38:11 Because the courts are present.
38:13 The Supreme Court is present.
38:15 And they are doing their job.
38:17 So, whatever decision the Election Commission makes,
38:19 it will not do it first.
38:21 I am sure that they do not have the legal scope
38:23 to challenge any political party's elections.
38:25 to challenge any political party's elections.
38:27 In fact, if you look at the history,
38:29 the Election Commission has never challenged validity elections.
38:31 the Election Commission has never challenged validity elections.
38:33 They have not challenged this.
38:35 They have not seen whether the election was correct or not.
38:37 They have only seen whether the election was correct or not.
38:39 They have only seen whether the election was correct or not.
38:41 Let us look at the history.
38:43 There is always a first time.
38:45 There is always a first time.
38:47 But, you have met.
38:49 But, you have met.
38:51 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
38:53 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
38:55 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
38:57 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
38:59 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:01 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:03 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:05 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:07 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:09 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:11 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:13 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:15 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:17 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:19 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:21 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:23 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:25 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:27 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:29 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:31 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:33 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:35 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:37 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:39 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:41 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:43 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:45 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:47 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:49 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:51 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:53 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:55 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:57 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
39:59 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?
40:01 If a deal is offered, will Imran Khan take it?

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