Brighton will be getting a visit from the writer and activist dubbed Vegan Jesus early in the New Year to promote his new book How To Argue With A Meat Eater (And Win Every Time) published by Vermilion.
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00:00 Good morning, my name is Phil Hewitt, Group Arts Editor from Sussex Newspapers, and there's
00:06 a really important book coming out called How to Argue with a Meat Eater and Win Every
00:11 Time. It's the new book from Ed Winters, also known as Earthling Ed, also known as
00:16 the Vegan Jesus. Now, Ed, what's this book about? It's about providing arguments, isn't
00:22 it?
00:23 Yeah, it is. I think that whether we're vegan or not, we are fully aware of all of the arguments
00:29 that people use to justify not being vegan. And for me, the purpose of this book was to
00:34 kind of go through all of the arguments that people use from ethical arguments, environmental
00:38 arguments, health arguments, whatever it may be, and to look at those arguments and analyse
00:43 them and work out whether or not there's veracity to these arguments. So it's called How to
00:48 Argue with a Meat Eater and Win Every Time because the idea is that once you've read
00:51 this book, all of your arguments will have been addressed and hopefully, it will be a
00:55 lot more favourable to the vegan position.
00:56 You can take down every single argument that gets flung at a vegan then.
01:01 Exactly. That's the aspiration.
01:02 Do you find as a vegan, you have to justify yourself more? Are people slightly antagonistic
01:07 to veganism? Or is veganism becoming more understood and welcomed, do you think?
01:12 A bit of both. I think that over the years, veganism has become more understood. I think
01:17 we're viewed less as kind of a fringe, extreme hippie movement, if you like, and now we're
01:22 viewed as a lot more mainstream. But I do think there's a lot more pushback in certain
01:27 areas. I think veganism has become part of the kind of culture wars, the all-consuming
01:31 culture wars. And as a consequence, I think that there is a lot more scrutiny around veganism
01:36 now than there probably was 10 years ago, when less people were obviously talking about
01:40 it. So I think it's a bit of both.
01:42 Why would anyone object to vegan, do you think?
01:46 Well, food is about identity. You know, it's about enjoyment. We enjoy the food we eat.
01:51 It's cultural. It forms part of our festivities, our traditions. We share family experiences,
01:59 social experiences with food. So I think when we view food as not just being about calories
02:03 and nutrition and view it as being so much more than that, I think it becomes understandable
02:08 why people might be less favourable towards veganism, because we're encouraging people
02:13 to re-evaluate so many of these things. And also at the same time, you know, vegans have
02:18 a bit of a reputation for being kind of militant and judgmental. And I think that people take
02:24 that, I suppose, caricature of vegans and they use it to actively try and dislike them.
02:30 And so I think all of this is creating a natural barrier between the everyday consumer and
02:35 the vegan message.
02:36 That's a fascinating subject, isn't it? And do you actually feel better physically, not
02:40 just intellectually, physically, for not eating meat, do you think?
02:44 Yeah, certainly. I mean, there's a certain irony, which is before I was vegan, I never
02:49 looked into nutrition. You know, I ate, you know, fruits, vegetables, what I thought was
02:54 a healthy diet, but I never really looked into it. And then when I went vegan, all of
02:57 a sudden everyone was telling me, you're going to be deficient in this and this and this,
03:00 and you're going to wither away and, you know, fall through the cracks. And as a consequence,
03:05 I was like, well, I should look into all of this. And so I'm actually healthier now because
03:09 the scrutiny around veganism encouraged me to empower myself more about it. So in a way,
03:14 the wary eye that people cast over veganism can actually be helpful because it can make
03:20 us more, I suppose, educated when we do make that change so that we know that we're being
03:26 healthy. So I do definitely.
03:29 And watching the veganism experience of our daughter, who went vegan a few years ago,
03:33 it reminds me of when we went vegetarian about 30 years ago, but it's becoming easier, isn't
03:38 it, in this country?
03:39 Certainly. I mean, it's definitely becoming easier, even just from a recipe perspective.
03:44 If you go online and just type in vegan lasagna or vegan whatever it is, chances are you're
03:49 going to get dozens, maybe even hundreds of different recipes for these meals that we,
03:53 you know, eat as vegans or non-vegans. So I think there's a lot more awareness. It's
03:57 a lot more accessible and it's just a lot more, it's a lot easier now than it certainly
04:02 was a decade ago.
04:03 And how far can it expand? Can it keep expanding at the rate it is?
04:09 I think it definitely can. And I think the rate it is is probably not fast enough, if
04:13 anything, because when you look at the environmental impact of animal farming, the antibiotic use
04:18 in animal farming, there are so many reasons why it should accelerate beyond what it is
04:22 currently. And I think that there will be certain tipping points that are crossed as
04:27 cell cultured meat becomes more available, as there's increasing awareness around so
04:31 many of these issues, you know, environmental, health, ethical. So I think that we will see
04:36 it continuing to grow. And it's just my hope that the rate of growth accelerates beyond
04:40 what it is now.
04:41 Do you allow yourself to dream of a world where we don't eat meat or is that just inconceivable
04:46 really?
04:47 I don't think it's inconceivable. I think it's a challenge and it's an aspiration. I'm
04:51 not naive. I don't think the whole world is going to be vegan. I think there are socio-political,
04:57 geopolitical issues that will prohibit certain people from being able to have abundance to
05:01 all the plant foods that they would want. But I think that especially in Western nations
05:06 and in high income nations, I think that transition is not only possible, but I do think it is
05:10 inevitable.
05:11 Fantastic. Well, it sounds a really fascinating book. Really, really interesting to speak
05:15 to you. Thanks for your time. Good luck with the promotion. And you will be at Waterstones
05:20 in Brighton on January the 11th, 2024.
05:23 That's right.
05:25 Thank you so much.
05:26 Thank you so much.
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