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00:00 Welcome in to an episode of The Stinger,
00:03 a trade deadline special on the All Hornets Podcast Network.
00:07 One podcast feed with multiple shows,
00:09 making sure we cover the Charlotte Hornets
00:10 from every angle.
00:12 If you like what you hear,
00:13 please subscribe and Apple Podcasts,
00:14 go onto YouTube, leave a five-star review.
00:17 The All Hornets Podcast Network is affiliated
00:19 with the Fans First Sports Podcast Group.
00:22 Today's show, we're joined by Andrew Claudio
00:25 of Nick's Film School to hold some mock
00:28 Nick's Hornets trade discussions.
00:30 So interesting episode today.
00:32 This is gonna be the first of a series
00:35 of trade specials we're doing ahead of the deadline.
00:38 So hopefully you're gonna enjoy the show.
00:40 Andrew, say hello, introduce the people,
00:42 tell them about yourself.
00:44 - Hello, as James mentioned, my name is Andrew Claudio.
00:47 I'm executive producer over at Nick's Film School,
00:51 also our pregame show host,
00:53 and yeah, you're number one place for all things Nick's.
00:57 Thank you for having me.
00:59 - No, not at all.
00:59 And the reason I wanted to do one of these about the Nick's
01:03 is because firstly, we've already seen them make a move,
01:05 right, with OGN and OB moving off quickly, and RJ Barrett.
01:09 I mean, early returns, just to get people's thought,
01:12 what were your thoughts when the move was made
01:13 and what are your early returns so far?
01:16 - So when the trade was made,
01:18 it was a very emotional day, I'll say,
01:22 because there's an emotional connection
01:25 to Emmanuel Quigley and RJ Barrett,
01:28 two guys that were drafted by the Nick's,
01:29 developed by the Nick's, played key roles
01:32 in a very fun turnaround for this franchise
01:34 over the last three and a half seasons.
01:36 I mean, four and a half if you include RJ's rookie year,
01:39 but that was not really that good of a season.
01:42 And when you have a homegrown player like that
01:45 and you've experienced some success with them,
01:47 seeing them go out is not always the easiest.
01:50 RJ had gotten to a point in his performance
01:52 that it almost made it that you needed
01:55 to give him a change of scenery.
01:56 So there wasn't, at least on my part,
01:58 as much of a sting to losing him.
02:02 Quigley was the big one because a lot of Nick's fans,
02:04 myself included, always thought there was more there
02:06 than the role that the Nick's were giving him.
02:08 And you're seeing that in Toronto so far.
02:11 I think where I'm concerned is that
02:15 if you were gonna trade Emmanuel Quigley,
02:18 getting OGN and OB back is probably the trade to do it.
02:21 And being able to get Ananobi back for a guy that,
02:26 in Quigley, that you potentially weren't even gonna be able
02:29 to resign in restricted free agency,
02:31 depending on what deal he was offered.
02:33 And then in a guy that you were only playing
02:35 20 minutes a game, whether you should have been playing
02:37 him 20 minutes is a different conversation.
02:39 But being able to get Ananobi back
02:42 and not having to give up a pick is just,
02:44 it's something I can't really fault the Nick's for
02:47 or completely object to.
02:48 And you've seen it so far in the first five games.
02:51 The Nick's are five and O, they lead the league in defense.
02:53 They have, I mean, they're just blowing teams out right now
02:56 and we'll see if that success continues.
02:59 - And the Nick's still have all their picks
03:01 for that big pitch, which we know they are patiently
03:03 waiting for, meanwhile, upgrading the surrounding cast.
03:07 So no, I thought the trade made sense for both teams
03:10 when it happened.
03:11 And what I thought was interesting is after the trade
03:14 was made, in a classic two for one, right?
03:16 That is what you trade a two plays for one there.
03:19 That naturally creates holes on the Nick's roster.
03:22 And there was reporting post trade that the Nick's
03:24 are maybe not done on the trade market ahead of the deadline.
03:27 - Well, I'll say this real quick, sorry to interrupt you,
03:29 but like they did get Precious Achua and Malachi Flynn back.
03:32 But as you say, the headliners of the deal being that they,
03:37 but the roster spots, they actually, it wasn't a two
03:40 for three as a result.
03:41 However, it's been marketed as a two for one,
03:44 which is why I agree with you that I don't think
03:45 they're done either.
03:47 - Yeah, so when you look at the Nick's roster for now,
03:50 if you know, a lot of these listeners to this is gonna be
03:52 Hornets fans and then hopefully some Nick's fans too.
03:55 What would you say are the priorities on the roster
03:58 kind of upgrading, heading into the deadline?
04:00 What are the team looking up for?
04:01 - So this is where I'm trying not to overreact too much
04:04 to the start of the Anenobe era with the Nick's.
04:07 They won a good game against the Timberwolves
04:11 who lead the West and have been just an impossible team
04:15 to really score points against this season.
04:18 And they won that game, the first game of the Anenobe era.
04:22 And then the next four games, they've just,
04:24 they had a tough first half against the Bulls,
04:26 but then they blew them out in the second.
04:28 They controlled from minute one,
04:30 this game against the Sixers in which they won by 36 points.
04:34 And then they took care of the Wizards and the Blazers
04:38 by 20 plus and with the Blazers almost 40.
04:42 So I'm trying to assess what their needs are
04:45 without overreacting to like, we don't need anything.
04:47 We're five and we're never gonna lose again.
04:50 The backup point guard position has been one that is,
04:55 has been talked about amongst Nick's circles
04:59 that they're gonna need to upgrade.
05:00 Deuce McBride, who has taken over
05:02 and been given an opportunity in these first five games,
05:05 got off to a rocky start,
05:07 but the last three games has really shown
05:08 that there may be something there to him in a rotation.
05:12 I don't know if he can run the offense,
05:14 but as a 12 to 17 minute player, he's been awesome.
05:18 And so maybe you don't need to give up too many assets
05:21 to go get a guy to be your backup point guard
05:25 if he can be fine in that role.
05:27 The backup center position,
05:29 Precious Tshua has been not a long-term solution yet
05:34 to be the backup center.
05:36 The Knicks obviously lost Mitchell Robinson
05:38 to injury in December.
05:39 However, Isaiah Hartenstein has filled in almost,
05:43 not even just amicably,
05:44 but has almost made it that he's now the starting center
05:47 as far as the franchise is concerned.
05:49 And the way he's performed has really unlocked this offense
05:52 in a way that you really wonder
05:55 if he's just the starting center going forward.
05:57 - Really?
05:58 - Even when Mitchell Robinson potentially comes back.
06:01 So there's a need at center.
06:04 There's a need at potentially a backup point guard,
06:07 but specifically another playmaker or primary ball handler.
06:11 So that way it's not just all falling on Randall
06:15 and Jalen Brunson on the offensive side of the ball.
06:18 - Interesting.
06:20 Yeah, I mean, from the Hornets' point of view,
06:23 as you can imagine, this season is a lost one,
06:26 mainly due to injuries and some underperformance.
06:29 It's a combination of the two.
06:31 And obviously a strange situation,
06:33 new ownership group in place,
06:34 front office in place that probably aren't long past
06:39 this end of this season.
06:41 So it's a little bit strange.
06:42 I think the names to watch from the Hornets' point of view
06:45 on the trademark are Gordon Haywood, PJ Washington,
06:49 Terry Rozier, probably a bit of a controversial name,
06:52 but one that I think should be considered.
06:55 Even someone like Miles Bridges
06:58 probably shouldn't be ruled out as well.
07:01 So I think those are some of the common names
07:02 that you can see.
07:03 I mean, the core is basically
07:05 LaMelo Ball, Brandon Miller, Mark Williams.
07:08 I'd say there is a high price on Terry Rozier.
07:11 I would say Gordon Haywood needs to be traded.
07:14 And I would say kind of Miles Bridges and PJ Washington
07:17 are to be had for the right price.
07:18 And the rest of the roster is a lot of young guys who,
07:21 again, will have no value probably to anyone else
07:23 in the league apart from the Hornets themselves,
07:25 'cause they're developmental pieces.
07:27 Apart from maybe Nick Richards, who is a backup center,
07:31 who is a guy who could have some interest.
07:34 But I'd say that's the current position.
07:38 - I guess, I said to you when I messaged you
07:41 that the key people I'm probably interested in
07:44 from a Shia LaHorne's perspective,
07:45 what this team really needs moving forward
07:48 is toughness, veteran leadership,
07:51 and outside shooting and plus defenders.
07:53 Like that is, this team has been soft,
07:56 weak, out-rebounded, pushed around,
08:00 not been able to stretch the fall
08:01 on a consistent basis for too long.
08:04 And I didn't think there is any likelihood
08:06 of major kind of go putting multiple picks
08:10 to go for someone big at this trade deadline for the Hornets,
08:12 not with the current front office,
08:13 but trying to bring in some of the right culture settings,
08:17 some of the personalities approach the game the right way.
08:20 That's what I think the team will be looking to add,
08:23 if possible.
08:24 And that's why I had Josh Hart, Quentin Grimes
08:27 on the kind of first list.
08:28 I mean, both of those players, they are now,
08:31 obviously I think Josh Hart was starting at times this year.
08:33 He's kind of fluctuated a little bit in his next tenure,
08:36 but generally come off the bench.
08:38 Where would you say those two are
08:40 in kind of the pecking order against each other?
08:43 And I've seen Josh Hart,
08:45 there's been some disappointment with him this season
08:48 from Knicks fans.
08:49 Yeah, just where would you sum up
08:51 where kind of the Knicks are with both those two players?
08:53 - So it's interesting you bring up these two.
08:56 The Quentin Grimes of it all,
08:58 year three player was in the starting five,
09:01 got inserted into the starting five
09:02 for Evan Fournier last year.
09:05 And it was that point in which you really look
09:07 at the Knicks numbers and saw the uptick in improvement.
09:11 This year, new year and the starting five was doing fine,
09:16 but he got off to a bit of a rough start.
09:18 Wasn't really able to find his role in the beginning
09:21 and almost requested a move to the bench
09:24 because he thought there might be more of an opportunity.
09:28 The Knicks also just were flat out better
09:29 when Dante DiVincenzo shared the floor with Jalen Brunson.
09:32 And he's shot like over 45%
09:35 since moving into the starting five.
09:37 So Grimes has almost settled into a bench role,
09:43 a backup role,
09:45 but the Knicks had a glite when they had all these wings
09:48 with RJ and Quickly here that upon this trade happening,
09:53 both Grimes and McBride were told,
09:55 you're gonna be given an opportunity now
09:58 with there being no longer a need for a consolidation trade.
10:02 And the game against the Sixers,
10:06 he played over Julius Randle in the fourth quarter
10:11 and was able to be part of the team
10:14 that really closed that game out in the fourth.
10:17 I wouldn't be surprised if he's available,
10:19 is what I'll say.
10:20 From things that we've heard.
10:21 - He had the quote, didn't he?
10:24 Like it's hard to--
10:26 - This is when he was in the starting five,
10:29 he said he felt the pressure of like,
10:32 every time I get the ball, I feel I have to make it,
10:35 or I'm gonna get pulled immediately.
10:37 And he just, he spoke to an anxiety
10:39 that like his teammates weren't finding him.
10:41 And when they were, he's like,
10:43 I have to make this or else I'm getting pulled.
10:45 And this comes with the fact that you have a better option
10:48 and DiVincenzo behind you,
10:50 and a better option and Emmanuel Quickly behind you.
10:53 And you know, you better make your shots
10:56 or else you're looking at 17, 16 minutes tonight.
10:59 Now, him being extension eligible this summer,
11:04 I imagine he would not be extending with the Knicks
11:06 this summer based off of the number he might want.
11:09 So I don't, that's why I wouldn't be surprised
11:13 if he's available.
11:14 I don't know if--
11:15 - What sort of number do you think he would want?
11:16 Like judging, you know, what were Knicks talking about
11:18 maybe over the course of the season?
11:20 What sort of range would fans be expecting?
11:23 - For money?
11:24 - Yeah, for Quentin Grimes for an extension,
11:26 if he's extension eligible.
11:28 - So I, that's the thing.
11:29 I'm not even sure like that conversation has come up yet.
11:33 I know he being a guy that can shoot 40 from three
11:36 and guard your primary point of attack,
11:38 which he did really well last season,
11:40 is a guy that, you know, that's not OGN and OB money,
11:44 but that's the OGN and OB skillset.
11:46 And it's very much the opportunity hasn't been there.
11:49 I wouldn't be surprised, like I said,
11:51 if he was available, so that way he can enter
11:53 into that bracket.
11:55 So that's the Grimes of it all,
11:57 that he may be looking just for a change of scenery.
12:00 The Knicks locker room can be a little clicky too,
12:03 in that there's like a Villanova click and a CAA click
12:07 and a Kentucky click, and he's none of those things.
12:09 So he may be on the outside looking in
12:12 at a certain standpoint.
12:16 - So Josh Hart, I'll actually push back
12:19 on the fact that he's been a disappointment
12:20 and the fact that he's been a starter
12:23 because he's only started, I believe four games
12:25 and it was on RJ Barrett was out.
12:27 Be there four or five games
12:28 and it was an RJ Barrett was out.
12:30 He has been the de facto sixth or seventh starter
12:34 on this team.
12:36 And for two years, since the Knicks traded for him last year
12:39 has just been a consistent on-off machine.
12:42 I know it is impact metrics say,
12:44 and I think it's because he's just not hitting
12:46 the three point shot like he did
12:48 when he came to the Knicks last year.
12:50 He's also not as good at the rim, I believe,
12:53 than what he has been in the past.
12:56 The thing that I think he gives the Knicks,
12:58 and this was like a thing when Quickly was here,
13:01 is an injection of pace that they just don't have
13:04 when they have their normal starting five
13:05 or didn't have when they had their normal starting five.
13:08 And like adding someone like Ananobi,
13:11 he can do so many things.
13:14 He's no longer responsible for being the primary
13:17 point of attack, lockdown, Bruce Bowen defender.
13:21 And he could do some other things off ball
13:23 that when he gets it,
13:25 it's almost like you're starting a fast break
13:27 no matter where he is on the floor,
13:28 whether it be off a turnover,
13:30 whether it be off a rebound,
13:32 he's the injection of pace.
13:34 And it's why they just, they flat out for two years
13:37 or at least since they made the trade last year,
13:38 been better with him on than with him off.
13:40 And that's no matter what lineup pairing that you're with.
13:43 Ironically, the only lineup that you can make the argument
13:46 he was worse with is when he was with RJ Barrett,
13:48 which Knicks fans got very frustrated
13:50 when they would play together.
13:52 So point being, I'd actually, if we could,
13:56 I did see when you mentioned it,
13:57 that Josh Hart would be like a guy you'd be interested in.
14:00 Because he's a Villanova guy and a CAA guy,
14:05 I think he's the second untouchable on the Knicks
14:09 to be honest, behind Jalen Brunson.
14:12 If you had a Randle trade, I think that would be more of,
14:16 not that either are likely,
14:17 but I think they'd be quicker to trade Randle
14:19 than they would Jalen Brunson's best friend.
14:22 - And that's why, this is why we have to get the insight
14:25 of people like you who follow this closely.
14:28 So that is great insight.
14:30 And look, it's good to, we rule it out early.
14:32 There's no point focusing on that.
14:34 And the insight in Quentin Grimes is great as well.
14:36 So that's really interesting.
14:38 That helps me know where I'm gonna focus my time.
14:42 In terms of on the Hornets roster, I'll hand it over to you.
14:45 I will say, obviously there is probably
14:48 not as much talent on this roster,
14:49 but are there any names that kind of stuck out
14:52 was interesting to you?
14:53 I know you talked about a center position, back a point guard.
14:56 I would probably say that to some extent,
14:58 both of those positions are actually weaknesses
15:00 on the Charlotte Hornets roster itself.
15:03 But yeah, are there any names that you kind of wanting
15:06 to get the same kind of insight
15:07 from the Charlotte Hornets point of sight?
15:09 - So insight I think is the key word
15:11 because I have some questions,
15:13 but the first trade I thought of was just
15:16 the Knicks just got pressure to Chua.
15:18 You'd mentioned Nick Richards is available.
15:20 I believe that works as far as the money is concerned.
15:24 And I'm not even sure what team would have to give up
15:27 the pick in that spot.
15:29 Maybe the Knicks because they're trying.
15:31 - Yeah, it might be no team.
15:32 It might just be like, we like that player for that player.
15:35 - So like if it ends up being just like the Knicks
15:38 actually have a need and the Hornets would not be,
15:41 maybe it's like a top 50 protected second round pick,
15:44 you know, and it's one of those things
15:46 where maybe Nick Richards fills a need for the Knicks.
15:49 That's the one that I initially thought of.
15:52 What's the Hornet perspective
15:55 and vantage point of Terry Rozier at the moment?
15:58 You said that he's some, I know he's averaging 24 a game,
16:01 which is kind of wild.
16:03 I know there-
16:03 - Only seven, eight assists and I think-
16:05 - Right, like he's-
16:06 - Two or three of us, yeah.
16:07 - He seems very valuable and I have no idea.
16:09 Like I know if the Knicks,
16:12 I don't think Rozier is the guy
16:13 that the Knicks would do this for,
16:14 but I believe Grimes and then Fournier is expiring
16:17 for Rozier works.
16:18 I'm not even proposing that,
16:20 but like what is the price of a Terry Rozier at the moment?
16:23 - Good questions, good questions.
16:24 So Nick Richards, let's start there.
16:26 I think he would be a Tibbs guy
16:29 because he's a Steve Clifford guy
16:30 and Clifford and Tibbs view basketball
16:33 in a very similar way and are very close
16:35 and speak still now.
16:37 Steve Clifford loves his physicality,
16:41 his, he buys into his role.
16:44 He's like, you can describe in some of the same ways
16:47 like a Taj Gibson, like strong buys into his role.
16:50 But I would say Nick Richards is not a vocal guy
16:53 and very limited.
16:54 So like offensive rebounds, dunks, put backs,
16:57 but can actually move pretty well for his size.
16:59 I would probably have him above Precious Ochoa
17:02 in a value element, just because I think he's proven
17:07 to be an every night backup center
17:09 over the last couple of years.
17:10 And like, he's been a fine spot start
17:12 if you look at his numbers, not good.
17:13 He's a backup, that is what he is.
17:15 But he brings more size and probably fits a Tibbs style more
17:19 than a Chua, who's maybe more of like a switching center.
17:23 You know, that's more what Precious was known for in college.
17:26 So I think this is one where if the Hornets,
17:29 now the other thing with Richards,
17:31 he's contracted for next season as well.
17:33 A Chua is a free agent in the summer.
17:35 So there's an element of risk there that you carry, right?
17:38 And I think the Hornets want to get bigger and stronger
17:41 and training Richards for a Chua
17:43 would do the opposite of that,
17:44 but it would make you more switchable.
17:46 So it's a little bit of a philosophy thing.
17:48 I don't think it's a, it would only happen
17:50 if whatever reason the people in the talent position
17:53 thought that a Chua's style and upside
17:56 was much greater than Richards,
17:57 which I think that's close enough
18:00 that you wouldn't assume that would be the case.
18:02 The Rozier one is interesting.
18:04 He's having a fantastic year,
18:07 playing more on the ball this year
18:09 because of the Mellebore's injuries,
18:11 but he has also actually had his,
18:12 some of his best moments at Charlotte
18:14 before the season was playing off the ball.
18:16 He is just an incredible shot maker.
18:19 He is the best work ethic on the team.
18:22 He is all those things where coaches praise
18:24 about his leadership, his approach, his work rate,
18:27 all those things, which feels very much like someone
18:30 who would get on with Tibbs.
18:32 And he's also someone that the coaches
18:34 continually praise his defense.
18:35 He's asked to basically guard
18:37 the first choice perimeter offensive guy on the other side.
18:41 He's then asked to be the Hornets go-to scorer
18:43 and their main distributor.
18:45 Like he is doing a lot right now
18:48 and he's actually doing it remarkably well
18:50 and remarkably efficiently.
18:51 He should be struggling with efficiency this year
18:53 and he's not.
18:54 So there is no doubt he is playing extremely well.
18:57 My issue for the Knicks, I think, with Terrozier
19:00 is you couldn't play him and Brunson.
19:02 It would just be too small in the back court.
19:05 And then you wouldn't be willing to pay,
19:08 you know, if you're just playing well,
19:09 well, we're paying for the minutes
19:10 that Brunson's off the floor.
19:12 Well, you're talking about 14, 15 minutes a night
19:14 and you're not just giving up the assets
19:16 that it would cost to get a good backup ball handler.
19:20 So that's where I think the disconnect is.
19:21 If Rozier was 6'5", right,
19:24 and could play next to Jaylen Brunson
19:26 and handle the ball a bit so he could play point
19:29 while Brunson was out the game and play next to him,
19:31 I think he would carry more value.
19:33 I just don't see him being able to do that in New York.
19:35 - I think what you're describing
19:38 is the Emmanuel Quickly issue at the Knicks ad.
19:41 And it's what the fan base got very frustrated with
19:45 towards the end, at least,
19:46 when Tibbs just wasn't comfortable
19:49 playing quickly next to Brunson at long stretches
19:52 because of how small of a back court that was.
19:56 I would, I mean, the loud outcry from Knicks fans
20:00 was like, according to the lineup data, it works fine,
20:02 no matter what they're playing against.
20:04 The Quickly Brunson back court
20:06 was always like a ridiculously high positive
20:09 when they were playing together.
20:11 And this is where the Josh Hart of it all
20:12 actually came into effect.
20:13 The Knicks had this lineup with Quickly,
20:17 Brunson, Randall, and Josh Hart.
20:18 Anytime those four shared the floor together,
20:21 it was like plus 25 by the time that the trade was made.
20:26 So if you weren't willing to play that lineup consistently
20:30 and Quickly being a small guard and that was the issue,
20:34 to then not extend Quickly and trade him,
20:37 to then also then trade for another six one point guard
20:40 that you're not gonna play,
20:41 that's making 23 million a year,
20:43 I think is where,
20:44 Knicks fans would be upset by a deal like that.
20:48 And it's also where I'd be surprised
20:49 if the Knicks did make a deal like that.
20:52 So I really think where we fall is the Knicks.
20:54 Nick Richard seems to be the trade
20:56 if there is a trade to be made between these two teams.
20:58 I also just like from talking to some people
21:01 in the know over there,
21:03 like the Knicks I'm not sure are looking to add
21:06 that high a salary onto their books.
21:09 They do want something controllable
21:11 'cause as you mentioned,
21:12 there's a big fish coming down the road
21:14 that they may potentially wanna go
21:15 and make an all in trade for,
21:17 but they're not gonna look for an expiring contract.
21:20 So I didn't even bring up Gordon Hayward
21:23 or anything like that.
21:24 Like I think they would be interested in adding a guy
21:26 that's got years on his deal.
21:29 I don't know if 20 plus a year
21:31 is the amount of salary they'd be looking to get back.
21:34 - So this is interesting.
21:36 So I think we understand the issue with Rozier.
21:39 I had a couple of trades go down here
21:43 and I'll share both with you
21:45 and you let me know which one you wanna start
21:47 with you think is more interesting.
21:48 - Please do.
21:49 - One was PJ Washington,
21:52 which you've not talked about needing a three,
21:55 a stretch for, but that is what PJ is.
21:57 Can play center plays about a third
21:59 to a quarter as minutes at center this season.
22:01 So again, if that precious is not working for you,
22:04 that PJ is another option.
22:06 For Evan Fournier,
22:07 which is essentially salary filler and grimes.
22:10 And I understand there might need to be,
22:12 picks involved in that one way or the other,
22:14 it'd be good to get your thoughts.
22:16 But if, for example, if the Knicks felt,
22:18 we need to get another forward,
22:21 a guy can play in the front court,
22:22 he can stretch the floor.
22:24 And 'cause we feel that we're overbearing
22:26 on the wings right now,
22:28 that would be one idea.
22:30 Or the other one was a, again,
22:32 Evan Fournier plus grimes for a Gordon Haywood.
22:37 Now that was more of a rental.
22:38 That's a very short term goal.
22:40 And plus actually the money doesn't quite work for that.
22:43 You'd need to find like an extra,
22:46 you'd have to make another tiny deal on the side.
22:48 And this is the challenge.
22:49 But for me, from a Knicks perspective,
22:52 I'm renting Gordon Haywood.
22:53 He probably like might help this Knicks team offensively,
22:57 especially that second unit,
22:58 maybe more than grimes.
23:00 But it's a very short term move,
23:02 you know, and what happens after that?
23:04 You know, Evan Fournier at the minute
23:05 is kind of a vehicle really for the Knicks,
23:07 I think for a potential trade.
23:09 And I just don't know if they'd wanna use
23:11 that vehicle on Gordon Haywood.
23:13 But maybe PJ Washington who signed
23:15 for multiple poor years,
23:16 having a down shooting year.
23:17 But again, like he's proven he is a better shooter
23:20 than he is this year,
23:21 would probably be the only other person
23:23 who would make sense.
23:24 - So I'll start with the Gordon Haywood.
23:28 Of it all the, I mean the Knicks were the other team
23:33 that was trying to get Gordon Haywood a couple of years ago
23:35 when he signed in Charlotte.
23:36 So I know Tibbs would love Gordon Haywood, I think.
23:40 - And he can handle the ball as well.
23:41 Like he can play some point guard.
23:43 Like he's done that for Charlotte second unit at times.
23:45 Obviously a non-traditional form,
23:47 but he is a ball handler creator for others.
23:50 - So, I mean, this is correct.
23:52 I mean, apologies about my ignorance here.
23:55 How much, has he started every game for Charlotte this year?
23:59 - Well, started everyone he was healthy for.
24:03 He is currently, essentially he is currently out
24:06 with a left calf strain,
24:07 which is he's due back probably in around a week's time,
24:10 I would guess.
24:11 But there has not been any ankle injury,
24:15 any major injury thus far.
24:17 He missed two games with a stomach virus
24:19 'cause there was a virus going around the team.
24:21 But he is currently has a left calf strain,
24:23 but had started every game up to,
24:25 I think it was around December,
24:26 he was playing pretty much every game.
24:28 - So you're hinting at both points
24:29 that would make this a non-starter for me.
24:33 And that's actually, no pun intended, non-starter.
24:36 He wouldn't be a starter on this team.
24:37 He would be coming off the bench.
24:39 I don't know if you want to give up assets like Grimes
24:41 and Fortier for someone that's not going to start for you,
24:45 especially someone at that type of salary,
24:47 even if it is,
24:48 if the Knicks were just looking to dump Evan Fortier
24:50 for someone that might contribute to the rotation,
24:53 it is a 1%.
24:54 - That's the angle I was coming at it from is-
24:57 - Right, I get it.
24:58 - Turn Evan Fortier into someone
25:00 who can contribute for this year.
25:02 - Yeah, I think because you still have,
25:04 so Fortier has a one plus one and it's a team option.
25:07 So you can still, it's a little suck for Evan,
25:10 but the fact that you can still pick up his team option
25:14 and then trade him this summer
25:16 makes it less of an urgent need
25:18 to trade him at this deadline.
25:21 And the same thing goes with Grimes
25:22 because he is technically under contract for next year
25:25 on his rookie deal that you can just ride it out
25:29 and give up less assets for someone
25:32 that'll help your backup unit.
25:33 So the Gordon Hayward of it all
25:36 probably isn't the direction they'd go.
25:38 - Makes sense.
25:39 - I don't think they'd trade Grimes for PJ Washington
25:43 either, to be honest.
25:44 I think Josh Hart's been a fine backup four.
25:48 There's just not a lot of backup fours
25:49 that you're afraid of in the league
25:51 that Josh Hart can't defend and can't be.
25:55 Like you said, the Precious Achua of it all
25:58 is why I think the Knicks would look
26:00 for more rim protection at center
26:02 and potentially a backup five.
26:04 I mean, we'll see what happens in Chicago,
26:07 but Andre Drummond continues to be the guy
26:10 that Knicks fans are hoping becomes available
26:13 because then he brings you the offensive rebounding
26:16 that you lost Mitchell Robinson.
26:18 He brings you the exact type of backup five
26:21 that they're kind of looking for,
26:22 exactly what he was in Philly.
26:24 And he's been a rebound machine
26:28 since taking over the starting role
26:30 for Vucevic in Chicago.
26:32 So I think that's the direction they'd go
26:34 and it wouldn't cost you as much
26:36 because they have a couple of trade exceptions
26:38 that they can use to just put him right into that.
26:42 So yeah, I think that's more the direction they'd go
26:44 than something like PJ Washington.
26:46 - Yeah, the only other thing the Hornets
26:49 could do with that move was you do PJ Washington
26:52 and Richards for Grimes and Fortier.
26:54 So you get a backup four and you get a backup five.
26:57 It's a two rotation players for one.
27:01 Now, again, from a Hornets perspective,
27:02 I think that's the element for me
27:05 where you're getting a lot smaller.
27:08 If you think about going from your backup four,
27:11 your backup center to Grimes
27:12 and what do you do going forward?
27:14 I think that's where the value goes,
27:15 skews too much maybe making away from the Hornets.
27:19 And I don't think that's where they would look to.
27:21 So it seems like even though obviously
27:23 Quentin Grimes might potentially be available,
27:26 the Hornets don't necessarily have the players you feel
27:30 would be able to make a deal get done.
27:32 - Well, so do you think that Richards and Washington
27:36 are part of the long-term solution?
27:37 'Cause that's my thought on the Hornets
27:39 is that it shouldn't matter what the temporary things are.
27:43 If you can get Grimes and you think he can be
27:45 someone that plays next to Lamella one day,
27:47 then you got him.
27:49 And then you worry about finding other pieces
27:51 like a backup four, backup five in the future, right?
27:54 - Yeah, absolutely.
27:55 Look, I said at the start,
27:56 the only things nailed down for this team
27:58 are Brandon Miller, Lamella Ball and Mark Williams.
28:03 This team is too bad to have anything else locked in.
28:06 So no, I'm not saying they're by any means locked in,
28:10 but I just think in terms of the value
28:12 that those players have together, Washington and Richards,
28:15 I mean, maybe it is more close,
28:19 but if Quentin Grimes just was like a 15 minute backup
28:24 off the bench and it never quite regained
28:27 the form he got last year,
28:28 that would be two very solid backup players
28:33 playing at bigger positions,
28:34 which generally like the bigger positions
28:35 can be harder to find, to fill.
28:39 You're giving up a two for one for rotation players.
28:42 - Right.
28:42 - I just, it gets a little bit dicey
28:45 just in terms of the value for me.
28:47 Now, the fact that this hesitation of both sides,
28:51 maybe that means like that's where
28:53 it's actually a discussion, right?
28:54 And you can, both sides could talk themselves into it.
28:56 - I don't know if I can talk myself into it.
28:58 I don't think you would either at the end of the day.
29:00 I think the fact that it is a discussion
29:03 makes it for why this is closer than we realize.
29:07 I do think they would look for something,
29:10 I just respect like something more than
29:12 a backup four and a backup five
29:14 if they were trying to trade Grimes and Fortier.
29:17 - People would want to address your needs, right?
29:19 And that would-
29:20 - I think that's why Rozier,
29:21 that's why Rozier I think was a more fascinating
29:24 conversation of if the Knicks were willing
29:26 to take on that type of money, Grimes and Fortier,
29:29 I could see it.
29:30 I especially since I do think Grimes is available.
29:33 I just flat out do think he is available going forward.
29:37 I don't know if this would be the potential trade for him
29:40 to be available to go,
29:42 but I do think he can be had for the right price.
29:45 - Well, everything I know about Rozier
29:47 is they would be holding out for like
29:49 value of multiple first round picks.
29:52 - Right.
29:53 - Not multiple like three, four,
29:54 but like two first round picks
29:56 or a first round pick and a player.
29:58 And I just don't think Quentin Grimes
30:00 is enough for that reason.
30:03 But no, I think, look, I think it makes a lot of sense.
30:06 That's why we have these discussions.
30:09 If there was a third team,
30:11 I still think Quentin Grimes, like you say,
30:13 a three point shooter who can be a point of attack defender
30:15 that ticks a lot of boxes for Charlotte.
30:17 And we've not spoken much about draft picks,
30:19 either of us in this,
30:21 because I think from the Knicks perspective,
30:23 they're holding them for that all-star who comes up.
30:26 - Bingo.
30:26 - And from a Charlotte Hornets perspective,
30:28 they're not in a position with a lame duck front office
30:31 that they're gonna be giving up future draft picks
30:34 right now.
30:34 It's just not the right time.
30:36 It's about retooling the roster
30:38 rather than trading away draft picks at this point in time.
30:41 So I think that's why neither of us
30:42 have really brought that up.
30:44 - Yeah, I could see a world where the Knicks trade.
30:49 They own Dallas's pick, it's top 10 protected this year.
30:52 They could trade that in a deal
30:55 if they felt it was the right value
30:56 and they were getting something from more than this year.
30:59 I don't necessarily know if,
31:02 'cause that's what they did last year
31:03 is they went the opposite and they traded their own first top
31:07 and they protected it top 14 for Josh Hart
31:10 'cause they thought, well, the Dallas pick is gonna convey,
31:12 so we have a pick this year.
31:14 And then Dallas found themselves in the play-in
31:16 and they were like, you know what?
31:17 We'll just skip out on the play-in and tank completely.
31:20 And so the Knicks had no pick in the draft this year.
31:23 So being in the same position,
31:25 I think they'd rather trade the Dallas pick
31:27 if it's more confirmed that it's gonna convey this year
31:30 rather than trade their own, which as you mentioned,
31:33 there may be some bigger fish on the market this off season
31:35 that no one, as many assets as possible,
31:39 they could potentially move for another player.
31:41 - Well, Andrew, I think, look, we didn't find a trade,
31:47 but that's fine.
31:48 It was still a really good exercise
31:49 to learn a little bit more about those two players
31:51 who are kind of guys who I think Hornets fans
31:53 have had their eyes on.
31:54 So I really appreciate you giving up your time.
31:57 Best of luck to the Knicks.
31:58 We will be watching on.
31:59 Wishing luck for the rest of the year.
32:00 And yeah, appreciate your time today.
32:02 - Of course.
32:03 And look, if Nick Richards for a Chua
32:05 or like a Jericho Sims is in play,
32:07 I'm not gonna say no, but that may not be the most,
32:11 it may not be the sexiest trade,
32:12 but like Nick Richards is the thought
32:14 that I think a lot of Knicks fans would have.
32:16 It's like a backup center.
32:17 That's like what we're looking for right now,
32:19 a backup center.
32:19 - If we can find a way to bend grimes into that deal,
32:24 which there won't be.
32:25 - That won't, yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
32:27 Not in that type of deal,
32:28 but I do understand like the Hornets are looking
32:30 to just acquire pieces that could be part of the solution.
32:34 So, yeah, I get it.
32:35 - Well, just to finish up,
32:38 everybody, thank you for listening.
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32:51 So thank you very much for allhornets.com
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32:55 Thank you for Andrew, Knicks Film School
32:58 for coming on the pod.
32:59 And look, if there is ever a Knicks Hornets trade
33:01 in the future, you'll have to hop on again here.
33:04 - Deal, sounds good, my man.
33:05 Thank you for having me.
33:06 - Thank you.