Joe Nicholson is joined by Nathaniel Whittingham from The To Hull & Back Podcast to preview Sunderland's Championship match against Hull City at the Stadium of Light
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00:00 [Music]
00:20 Hello and welcome to the RAW podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo. My
00:28 name's Joe Nicholson and we're back for another preview podcast to look ahead to
00:32 Friday night's championship match between Sunderland and Hull City at the
00:37 Stadium of Light. So joining me to tell me about the Tigers we are joined by
00:42 Nathaniel Whittingham from the To Hull and Back podcast. Nathaniel, how's things
00:47 at Hull heading into the game? Pretty difficult at the moment and things have
00:53 only really got worse since the last time we played which wasn't very long
00:57 ago and I think the best we can hope for is that just like the last game but
01:05 reversed the home team has the better chances and then you know sort of get
01:11 that late goal win the game. I don't see us being as confident as we have been
01:15 you know like this time a month ago we've lost a lot of games recently and
01:20 maybe been unlucky but generally if you keep losing games even if you're playing
01:25 you know sort of good football questions should be asked. We've got about 10
01:30 good players out injured or they've been recalled by Burnley like Scott Twine
01:36 he's come back to Burnley and then we've got to one particularly important player
01:40 away at AFCon and then another who would certainly be in the team because we've
01:44 hardly got anyone else especially in sort of forward line a lot of injuries
01:49 there and you're gonna miss the return of Jason Finlay-Jean he's only returning
01:54 after the Sunderland game and he was sort of carrying us through the first
01:58 part of the season so pretty tough we're not playing poorly it's just lots of
02:04 awful mistakes and we create chances but despite signing all these attacking
02:09 players who are good finishing isn't really one of our best traits so I'm not
02:16 particularly looking forward to it to be honest. When you mentioned that game on
02:20 Boxing Day of course it wasn't long since the last time these two sides met
02:25 and since then in the league Hull have lost twice and won once they've also had
02:31 an FA Cup tie against Birmingham which went to a replay which they played on
02:34 Tuesday and they ended up losing that tie so how have Hull kind of been playing in
02:39 the last few weeks since that game against Sunderland on Boxing Day?
02:43 Well against Blackburn that was quite an open game. That was the one they won wasn't it?
02:51 3-2. We really struggle when we don't score first and we've conceded
02:55 first probably more than about 20 clubs in the league. I mean we have been
03:02 pretty good at coming from behind but it makes it a whole lot easier when we
03:05 score first. I'm not sure we've lost when we scored first this season perhaps we
03:12 have but I can't quite think of it. So we got two early goals against Blackburn
03:17 we'd had three early goals against Rotherham those were easy home wins but
03:20 when we go behind like we did against Norwich and Sheffield Wednesday it makes it
03:25 very difficult. Blackburn it was an open game we just had enough up front
03:31 to win the game but it wasn't an amazing performance. Sheffield Wednesday we
03:35 played poorly for the first half an hour. You may have seen the red card decision
03:40 I know there was a bit of debate over it but that was since overturned and they
03:44 don't often overturn decisions if they're not quite certain it was a poor
03:48 decision then you know with 10 men away from home against what you could argue
03:53 from a city perspective 12 players rather than 11 with the referee very
03:59 difficult to come back from that. The Norwich game first half an hour again
04:06 Norwich should have had at least one red card. The only fit striker
04:12 we have left except 37-year-old Billy Sharp who we can't really rely on.
04:15 Aaron Connolly he's going to be out for the Sunderland game. Initially he was
04:20 just concussed and now I mean he got poleaxed by Angus Gunn should have been a
04:24 red. De Fou given the other way. Giannou Lounis the left-back deliberately
04:30 elbowing one of our players only a yellow card ridiculous. Again we created
04:36 chances but it's very easy to play against us at the moment if you're a
04:40 half-decent team you will probably score a goal at some point because
04:44 defensively we're not good enough and even though we create chances not
04:49 scoring them. So basically usually we just predict on the podcast what the
04:54 score is going to be. This time for the first time we've just predicted what the
04:58 awful refereeing error is going to be in the first half an hour. We think it
05:02 might be a repeat of the Darren Bent beach ball goal that we'll concede.
05:08 Hopefully we start well and don't concede the first goal early and as a
05:14 referee decision maybe we've got a chance because we have been hindered by
05:16 that but really it was the games before the last three where we played poorly.
05:22 We've been playing okay but really February once we've signed a few players in January
05:28 and got Filipino back we've got some home games. Hopefully we can restart the
05:33 season there but in my head the Sunderland game is almost a write-off.
05:38 Well of course it's going to be live on Sky Sports so it'll be there for
05:41 everyone to see. You mentioned a couple of players that have been out injured
05:45 and I've just got a list of holes. Top scorer is here. Aaron Connelly is the
05:50 top scorer with eight goals. He's going to miss the game with an injury. Liam
05:53 de Lapps got seven. He's going to miss the game with an injury. Ozan Tufan, he's
05:57 got seven goals as far as I know he's available. Then there's Jadon Filagin
06:02 has six. He's out with an injury and then there's Scott Twine has four goals of
06:06 the hole this season. He's just been recalled by Bristol City and then also
06:11 as you mentioned before they've got Adama Traore and Jean-Michael Serre there
06:15 away at the African Cup of Nations. Sunderland of course have their injury issues
06:20 as well. Out of those players that are unavailable for a hole, who's kind of the
06:24 most? Who's going to be the biggest loss for them?
06:26 Well yeah I mean firstly it's in a way even though Filagin was carrying us
06:31 having those players especially with Twine who started to score recently and
06:35 then it's gone to Bristol City on an initial loan deal. You'd think that
06:43 because we've got all these good players who can score goals and are contributing
06:46 like that, having them spread out over the team is pretty important. But then
06:50 when four of the five top scorers go and Tufan is somewhat inconsistent, that's a
06:57 problem because I know some teams rely on one player. But Filagin, him going has
07:04 basically collaborated with the downturn in form and I think if we just had a
07:11 striker we'd be better but Connolly's out and Jalap is out as well. Jalap had
07:17 been on the wing but they're all pretty equal big losses except Twine who I
07:22 think there's a bit of debate as to whether he was actually good or not.
07:25 We're desperate to sign a winger now and a striker but yeah Filagin's
07:32 definitely been the biggest loss and until we get him back for the Millwall
07:36 game at the beginning of February which he should be fit for, I don't
07:41 really see anything changing because he could get a goal out of
07:46 nothing. The worst thing about Hull City at the moment is that we
07:50 play well, we create chances, we have so much of the possession but we are
07:55 extremely inefficient and that would be okay if we had a good defence but we
07:59 don't. Every team that plays against us is more direct, they get more chances with
08:04 30%-40% possession and then they score one or two of the three chances
08:10 they have whereas we don't score any of the ten we make and you'd think that
08:15 will turn around at some point but we're halfway through the season and it's been
08:19 like that all year. We still have a very good chance to have a good season but
08:22 we've basically lost key players at the key point in the year where there are
08:27 twice as many games so an injury is twice as bad over Christmas when you've
08:32 got that congested period. Something could go our way early in the
08:39 Sunday game but on current form we've got too many players out at the moment
08:46 and I think it'll be too much for us away from home on Friday.
08:51 You kind of alluded to it there, maybe in kind of recent weeks sides of play
08:55 against Holland conceded possession and then maybe looked to kind of hit them on
08:58 the counter-attack. It's going to be two teams on Friday that like to dominate
09:02 the ball in terms of the possession stats in the Championship. Sunderland are
09:06 third with an average of 57.5% Hull are fifth with an average of 55%
09:12 possession. Obviously Sunderland are the home team, they'll be expected to have more of
09:18 the ball but how do you see Hull approaching this game against
09:21 Sunderland on Friday? I mean what I do is because I don't trust, I mean
09:27 everyone says Grieves and Jones are really great centre-back pairing and
09:30 they are very good players but defensively the whole sort of back
09:34 four has struggled so I might just try and, Virginia isn't going to do this but I'll just
09:39 try and stay as compact as possible and hope that Carvalho or well he's
09:45 sort of the only quick player we're going to have up front. Maybe we
09:49 have Aliyah, Asaya Manesh on the pitch, she's very quick but has no end product.
09:54 Just trying to hit on the counter-attack because I think that the confidence is
09:58 so low. We're going to make a mistake at the back, we're trying to
10:02 sign a goalkeeper, we've agreed a deal, we're just waiting on work permits. It
10:06 would be really helpful to have the Croatian international goalkeeper
10:11 Ivo Pandor available for this game but we won't, we're going to have Ryan Orsop
10:15 and though playing out from the back he's better at that than a lot
10:20 of goalkeepers he's still not really great at that and I think the team's
10:26 lacking a lot of confidence. I'd change the tactics just for this game and then
10:30 restart against Millwall in a few weeks time.
10:35 We're going to stay the same system which has worked
10:41 fairly well previously. We're going to try and do what Sunderland do and keep the
10:46 possession but I keep saying it, the confidence is so low which is
10:55 such a shame because we're still in a good position in the table.
10:58 I'd be very happy with the amount of points we're up for the playoffs, it's one
11:02 point if you said at the start of the season but it's just because I mean I
11:07 guess it is a bit arrogant to think this but realistically we should be no lower
11:11 than fifth, we should be a comfortable fifth with the amount of games we've
11:14 completely dominated and the amount of chances we've spurned and the amount of
11:20 chances we've given away which is not that many and yet they still score. We
11:25 keep shooting ourselves in the foot, Rossini has probably said that, 15
11:28 different games this season. There's only been a handful of games where we've not
11:34 deserved to win when we haven't done. So yes we're in a good position going to
11:44 second half of the season, one point that's pretty good but it's just so
11:49 frustrating because we should be much more confident rather than thinking that
11:55 if we lose the game which we could well do we could be down to 14th which is
12:00 just ridiculous. It's about 10 places below where we should be, that shows how
12:04 tight the competition is this season but yeah we'll play the same system I just
12:09 hope it's that first half an hour we need to play well or you know it'll be
12:14 the sky curse, we're rubbish on Sky Sports, it'll be an awful refereeing decision,
12:18 Billy Sharpe will miss some sitters and then Sunderland will score a goal cutting
12:24 in from the wing, Jack Clark will cut in and score from outside the box like
12:29 we conceded in every game since about November. That's all, that'll be
12:35 how it goes. Well you mentioned Jack Clark there, how much have you seen of
12:40 Sunderland this season and kind of what have you made of them? I'm not sure I
12:45 mean I've heard that Sunderland fans maybe despite having I mean fairly mixed
12:50 results aren't hugely happy with the manager, is that right? It's been
12:56 underwhelmed is how I'd probably describe Michael Beale's appointment from
13:00 Sunderland fans. And I mean it'd be interesting to know your thoughts on the
13:05 game we just had a few weeks ago but I felt that Sunderland had two
13:10 chances, they had Patrick Roberts one-on-one and then Jack Clark from
13:14 outside the box. I mean I know he's a very good player, perhaps a little bit
13:18 like us, Phil Hogene. Roberts is actually out of Friday's game, he's out with an injury.
13:24 Okay but I know that Clark and Phil Hogene are probably similar in that. Obviously
13:29 both teams have a lot of good players to be in that position in the
13:33 league but they probably are clearly the best player in each team and so I'm
13:39 sure you're happy that he's still at the club, at least at this point in January.
13:44 But yeah I mean I thought getting rid of Mowbray was a bit, I mean you can
13:50 always think of pushing on but I never really liked the idea that you've had a
13:53 good season and then you get rid of the manager. You've got to ride that
13:57 momentum I think and he did well with a young team. But yeah Sunderland will be
14:03 there, there and thereabouts towards the end of the season I'm sure.
14:08 Well the sides very close in the table heading into Friday night's game. Actually
14:13 there's just between Coventry in sixth and Bristol City in 14th, there's just four
14:19 points separating them. Sunderland seventh with 40 points as well as Coventry and
14:24 Hull just two points back or just one point back behind Sunderland actually in
14:29 ninth place. They're on 39 points so incredibly tight round those kind of
14:34 playoff places. So what is the kind of expectation now at Hull? You mentioned
14:39 obviously had a good start to the season but with the players unavailable maybe
14:43 recent performances haven't been as good but what kind of does the fan base think
14:47 is possible now for the remainder of the season?
14:49 Well I think it really depends on who we sign from now until the end of the
14:54 month. Jadon Filippino will be back, he's one of the best wingers in the
14:59 division, that's good. Dalat Pizzao, he was a good striker, Sharp I don't know if
15:05 you can rely on a 37 year old and who only got two goals in his last
15:09 championship season. I know he's scored a lot of goals in the championship but a
15:13 while ago. Conor Lee, injury-prone and is out at the moment so we need to sign a
15:20 good striker. I know that they'd technically be fourth choice or at least
15:23 the fourth one we've got at the club but we need to sign a good striker.
15:28 Carvalho, he's a good signing so I think that's good.
15:32 How's he done? Has he played much since he came in? Because that seemed like a good deal for Hull.
15:36 Well he's only had the one match and he couldn't play against Birmingham in the
15:41 cup because he wasn't in the first game so he couldn't play in the replay.
15:45 Ridiculous rule when you've got so many injuries, he's at the club, he's not
15:49 cup tied. Absurd rule in my opinion. He will probably be in from the start against
15:55 Sutherland though. Oh 100%. I mean if he wasn't playing then I think Rossini
16:00 would be sacked on the spot because the players we've got who are fit, it's
16:05 always unfortunate that the players who are fit are always the ones we don't
16:08 really want to play. Aliyah and Lukilo, those are the wingers we have fit at the
16:14 moment, both have had poor seasons, injury prone. Aliyah will probably play at
16:23 some point on Friday, very quick player, no end product but you know he's got
16:28 something about him. I know Lukilo has scored against Birmingham but
16:31 that's the first thing he's done in 20 games other than lose the ball
16:35 constantly. But yeah Carvalho will be a pretty good player but yeah if we
16:40 get the goalkeeper that we've agreed to deal for that gets over the
16:45 line, hopefully that's an improvement and we'll definitely be signing a left-back
16:50 but I think we just needed to go on a run at one point this season. It still
16:54 doesn't feel like the team's really clicked. We've got a lot of good young
16:58 bright talented players but I think it really depends on who we sign because if
17:04 we don't get a striker in then because Dunlop's going to be out until the last
17:08 few games of the season. It'll be like last year, Toufan was playing up
17:14 front against Sunderland in the away game last year, scored two goals but it
17:19 didn't really work as a striker very much so it's very difficult to know. I
17:23 still think we'll finish top 10. Playoffs looking more like something we really
17:31 have to aim for rather than a nice positive thing, like a bonus
17:35 because of the signings we're getting in. Adjun El Ajella, the owner,
17:40 putting a lot of money into the club. We do need the playoffs to justify
17:44 signing all these players. I think top 10 but if I was to
17:49 realistically guess at the moment I don't think we'll get in the playoffs.
17:55 Well of course last season was that crazy 4-4 game wasn't it on
17:59 Good Friday, scoring the last-minute penalty there to take a
18:04 point. But just finally Nathaniel before we let you go, how do you see the game
18:08 playing out on Friday night and we'll just ask you for a quick score
18:12 prediction as well. Well it'll probably be like the last game, we'll start slowly.
18:18 The refereeing decision will kill the game, Sunderland will go on and up,
18:23 we'll struggle and we'll concede a really rubbish cross
18:29 and then Clark will cut in and score from outside the box. Logically I don't
18:35 see anything other than another poor result for Hull and it'll just be
18:43 even more frustrating because we should really be fifth.
18:48 If you were to look at every single game we've had and it was all
18:53 silhouetted and you didn't know which club was who, you'd think 'oh yeah that
18:58 team, team A would have won about 50% more of the games we've had and we'd be
19:05 fifth comfortably' but we're not. So of course you need to create your chances
19:09 but nine times out of ten we'd win these games and we don't. So that's sort of
19:16 frustrating bit at the moment. But yeah logically I don't see anything other
19:20 than a Sunderland win. I think I was said I was gonna predict a 5-0
19:24 City win every week but because we've been so poor I'm going 5-0 Sunderland.
19:29 Well Sunderland fans will know, they know all about dominating games,
19:34 getting into good positions and not taking chances. The XG stat has
19:38 been thrown about around and with Sunderland creating more chances
19:43 than their opponents and not taking them and not getting the results all the time.
19:48 But it's a big game for Sunderland as well, for Michael Beale after the defeat
19:52 against Newcastle in the FA Cup, losing to Ipswich last weekend and as we kind
19:57 of alluded to earlier, the pressure was on him when he came in replacing Tony
20:00 Mobra who was doing well. And if you don't win a couple of games you can
20:04 easily slip down the table, Sunderland in seventh at the minute but as we mentioned
20:07 before not a lot. To be fair, losing to Newcastle and Ipswich is not anything to be too
20:13 annoyed about. I think he's only had five or six games. Yeah so he came in
20:18 just before Christmas, the first game was against Coventry on the 23rd.
20:23 That was poor but I think give him a tiny bit of time.
20:29 It was a tough job for him to come in to given that Tony Mobra was
20:34 doing well and the fans were probably expecting a bigger name to come in and
20:39 as I say we were underwhelmed when Michael Beale came in. So he definitely
20:42 deserves a chance but the pressure is kind of on him from the word go given
20:46 the nature of his appointment. So a big game for Sunderland. I think they
20:50 will win on Friday night given what you've said about Hull's injuries and
20:53 Hull's difficulties. I think Sunderland didn't play badly. Ipswich, as you
20:58 mentioned there, Ipswich playing very well at the minute up there in second in
21:01 the table. So no kind of real shame, massive shame losing that game although
21:06 the kind of manner of the winning goal that Sunderland conceded was
21:09 very disappointing coming from a set-piece and a header. But I think
21:12 Sunderland will bounce back on Friday. I'm gonna go for a 2-1 Sunderland win.
21:16 Well if you want a bigger name, Jose Mourinho is that a job now? Well yeah that
21:22 would be, you get good odds on that happening. But as we said
21:26 Michael Beale in charge at the minute and Delima Rossini in charge of Hull and
21:30 they'll come head-to-head on Friday night as Sunderland face Hull at the
21:34 Stadium of Light. So Nathaniel thanks a lot for joining me on the latest episode
21:38 of the Raw podcast and if you like what we do here at the Raw podcast please
21:43 consider subscribing on YouTube, Spotify or whatever you listen to your podcasts
21:48 and leaving a review. And for all the latest SAFC news you can head over to
21:53 the SAFC section of the Sunderland Echo website and we'll have more build-up
21:58 ahead of Friday's match. We'll also have live updates, analysis and more from the
22:03 Stadium of Light as Sunderland face Hull as well as all the latest transfer news.
22:08 Once again thanks a lot for listening to the Raw podcast.