Brussels, my love? Can EU capitals club together to defend defence?
In this edition, panelists ponder strengthening militaries, and discuss elections in Russia and Portugal.
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00:00 [Music]
00:11 Hello there and welcome to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekly talk show
00:16 about the news bubbling here in Brussels and beyond. I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for tuning in.
00:22 Coming up this week, with EU elections around the corner and party manifestos being printed out,
00:29 one word coming up more and more is defence. Today, Europe buys eight in ten weapons from
00:34 suppliers outside the bloc, something the Commission wants to change by fundamentally
00:39 revamping its industry. What does that mean in reality and is it just a pipe dream? And
00:45 after eight years of rule, Portugal has said adeus to the socialists. Last weekend's legislative
00:52 elections showed a big surge for the centre-right conservatives and for a new right-wing firebrand.
00:58 We analyse the frustration with the governing party in the country of 10 million people
01:03 and check what all this could mean for the EU parliamentary elections taking place this June.
01:08 Let's meet our panel this week. Maria Djao-Rodrigues, the President of the Foundation
01:12 for European Progressive Studies; Martha Muchnick, Senior EU Analyst at the International Crisis
01:18 Group; and Sander Pasaric, Project Officer from the Wilfrid Martin Centre for European Studies.
01:24 Thank you so much for coming in to us. It was a pretty busy week for MEPs especially as well
01:29 over in Strasbourg. There was big votes on the AI Act, on the Media Freedom, but actually what we
01:34 want to zoom in on here is defence, which will be of course one of the big themes next week
01:38 at the EU Summit. Despite the rain, the mood was euphoric last Monday as the Swedish flag
01:49 was raised in Brussels. After 200 years of neutrality, Sweden's armed forces now form part
01:57 of NATO, as does its sophisticated domestic defence industry. Meanwhile, EU officials have
02:05 started scratching their head for ways to develop Europe's defence companies. The Commission's
02:10 recent defence industrial strategy looks to promote joint procurement of arms,
02:14 just like how countries work together to buy COVID vaccines.
02:16 But the question is, will it get the political and financial backing it needs to work?
02:23 So Maria, let's start with you. How realistic is this proposal?
02:31 Well, I would say that first of all it is important to welcome Sweden's membership to NATO,
02:41 but we need to ask how come a country which has a strong tradition of neutrality decides
02:48 to ask for NATO membership. And I think this is because we are confronted with a deep change of
02:54 the context. So we are coming from a moment where we had the collapse of the Soviet Union
03:01 after Cold War, then we went to a unipolar moment. Now we are in a multipolar world,
03:09 and one of the poles is an empire willing to expand, and it is in our continent.
03:17 This is the situation we are confronted with. And this is why we're having this conversation
03:22 on defence and we're speaking about things that many years ago perhaps would have been taboos.
03:26 Martha, from the perspective of the International Crisis Group, I know you're following as well
03:30 this, these talks on defence every step of the way. Did you follow the proposals from
03:34 the Commission recently on their strategy and what is your take on them?
03:37 Yes, yes, we've been following these proposals as well as all the debates on security and defence.
03:43 And just to add to Maria Joannès' comments, I think it's, security and defence are really at
03:50 the forefront of the EU's agenda right now. Russia's war against Ukraine, of course,
03:55 has really put these topics at the forefront of the European Council's agenda. You see successive
04:03 European Councils increasingly being dominated by foreign and security policy issues, which wasn't
04:09 exactly the case until recently. So this has completely changed the security environment
04:15 of Europe. And this strategy, I think, in a way is meant to sort of bridge the gap between rhetoric
04:23 and action, because one of the things that many EU leaders have been sort of accused of, if you
04:31 will, is the discrepancy between the stated rhetoric of Russia's aggression and then the
04:36 capacity to act. And I think this Commission's proposal sort of tries to bridge that gap.
04:43 And we as Crisis Group, we of course support that. We have been saying that Western aid is vital for
04:53 Ukraine's survival on the battlefield, and that the choices that Europe will need to make are
04:59 essential and will bear significant impact on Ukraine's successes in the battlefield.
05:05 And also Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, in her speech in Strasbourg recently,
05:09 she was calling on MEPs to wake up, calling on the whole bloc to wake up, in fact. And security
05:14 and defence played a huge role at the European People's Congress as well last week in Bucharest.
05:19 Sandra Passaro, you were there, of course, with the Wilfrid Martin Centre. How do you weigh in
05:23 here on this debate? Well, as a Croat and somebody who was born in 1991 during the war
05:28 for the independence war and Serbia's aggression on my home country, Croatia,
05:32 a war was never a construct. It was something, it was a reality, and it was a reality even that
05:36 happened after the Second World War. We had indeed a war on the European continent. So therefore,
05:41 I'm very pleased that finally we're talking about a common European industrial defence strategy with
05:48 its own cash pot of 1.5 billion euros for it, which is the so-called European Defence Industrial
05:56 Programme, which is aimed, I mean, we'll see now because this commission is coming to an end,
06:01 but most probably it should happen until the next year, 2025. And this should also be a focus
06:08 of the next, let's hope, the von der Leyen's commission of the next period, 2025.
06:13 So that we'll have to wait and see. And of course, for this strategy, because now it's just a piece
06:17 of paper on the table, it's a proposal and we can show you more, in fact, what's in that proposal.
06:21 You already mentioned the 1.5 billion euro from the budget of 2025 to 2027. But also,
06:28 there's an idea there to use windfall profits from frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine.
06:33 And of course, facilitate more cooperation between member states. But that's always a tricky one,
06:37 isn't it? For member states to cooperate, especially on areas like this where in the past,
06:41 they've procured and only thought of themselves really when it comes to buying arms.
06:46 Look, we just learned this with the pandemics. We invented something new called joint procurement
06:53 for vaccines. Now we need to have joint procurement for armament. And it's important to really to
07:00 build up European defence capacity, accepting common standards, because if we put our capacities
07:06 together, this makes a quite important total capacity. And joint procurement also help.
07:14 And then we need to build the industrial base for this. Nevertheless, I'd like to underline that
07:20 if we ask what is war nowadays, war is not just a military conflict. This is, in fact,
07:30 the confrontation of two different choices of society. On one hand, we have one society,
07:38 which is in fact an empire trying to expand and based on something which is not democracy.
07:45 We'll have this weekend election of a president, which in fact, will remain a weak president
07:54 because who can be strong if he's elected on the basis of total absence of debate?
08:01 And on the other hand, we have our democratic societies based on the
08:06 citizen choices. And we need to build our resilience. And resilience is about defence
08:13 capacity, is about financial capacity, is about protecting our citizens and protecting our
08:19 democracies. So you're right here on what we need to do and what is at stake. But are we able to get
08:23 there? I think in order for us to get there, we need public support. And I'm not sure personally
08:31 the extent to which there is sort of an understanding or a public support on the
08:37 part of public opinions in Europe. And I say specifically Western Europe. I think there's
08:42 a clear understanding where that there's an existential threat in Central and Eastern
08:47 European countries. I'm not sure the extent to which this is an existential threat in Western
08:52 Europe. And I think European leaders will need to do a lot to convince their own populations
08:58 of the gravity of the situation, if that's how they perceive it.
09:02 We're not obviously in Strasbourg, but MEPs were this week. So we wanted to hear their take
09:07 on this proposal as well. So we sent our reporter,
09:10 Ida Sanchez to the corridors to turn the Euronews microphone on them. Take a listen.
09:13 Well, it is indeed a very ambitious programme. But I think we need that ambition right now.
09:18 We also look around the world, we look at traditional partners that we've had, which might
09:23 end up in a logic of isolationism. And therefore, European Union needs to be able to stand on its
09:29 feet when it comes to defence. It's a timely package.
09:33 No, I would say it's completely the wrong way we are going on. It's not right to
09:38 rearm all the time. It's not right that we try to build up a military union. We should work on
09:47 peace of the world, on peace in Europe. And this is not the case now.
09:53 So two very different opinions there. And Aslam Demiral, by the way, she's the Vice Chair of the
09:57 Security and Defence Committee in the European Parliament. So you can imagine just how heated
10:02 the debates are on this topic. Martha, would you agree with her? Or do you think that's a bit naive?
10:06 I think that the right answer is probably a middle ground. Of course, I think it's clear that Europe
10:16 needs to take greater responsibility for its own security, to act more as a security provider
10:22 for its own neighbourhood. It can't depend on the United States and it cannot depend on what voters
10:28 on the other side of the Atlantic decide to do regarding its own security. If it's an existent,
10:34 if Russian aggression is an existential threat as we, as many European leaders perceive it to be,
10:40 then we need to ramp up production. We need to ramp up defence capabilities and work towards
10:47 that goal. But at the same time, we need to keep open the possibility of talks and dialogue
10:54 with Russia when the time comes to sort of when we feel like there's enough signals from Moscow
11:02 that there could be, that suggest that negotiations could happen on terms compatible to Ukraine's
11:08 security and European long-term security as well. Would you agree with that?
11:12 All those statements that we just heard was from the exiting MEPs. We are having elections now in
11:17 June and the European People's Party is even calling further, not only are we talking about
11:23 this industrial defence strategy that is very needed, we're also talking and calling for a
11:27 commissioner for defence and security. We're also calling for a council on defence and security.
11:32 We're also calling on common procurement. We're also calling on opening an innovation,
11:37 defence innovation office in Kiev. And the European People's Party is also very much aware
11:42 that defence, it's not only about attacking or going into war with somebody, it's also about
11:46 deterrence. And this is also a very important point. And this is also, it's going to be a very
11:53 structural and central point of our election campaign, defence, migration and climate.
11:59 And also that was very clear in your manifesto, but not perhaps as clear in your manifesto.
12:03 You were in Rome, of course, on stage as the socialist Congress we're meeting just a couple
12:08 of weeks ago. What role will defence and security play in your messaging to your potential voters?
12:12 Well, you can be sure that we are very clear on the need to build up European defence
12:18 capabilities. We cannot be naive. But let me say something very clear.
12:22 We European societies, we are peaceful societies. We don't want to make wars on the others. We don't
12:29 want to invade the others. So when Putin is saying that he's under threat of being invaded,
12:36 we need to say loud and clear for whatever the Russian citizen listen to us today, this is
12:43 completely wrong. This is fake. And we have a war, which is also a battle of narratives.
12:50 And Putin's narrative is completely invented. So how will you re-enter that when you speak
12:56 to your voters? But on the other hand, we cannot be naive, because in fact, there was an invasion
13:02 of European country, abiding to our values. And therefore, we need to have a bold strategy. And
13:09 this means to build up defence capacity, to build our resilience as society, so protecting our
13:14 cities and democracies. But also, let me also underline a very important point,
13:20 enlargement strategy, because we have made a choice about this.
13:24 And just, but I'm sure our viewers are looking on here saying who's going to pay for this,
13:28 because they're struggling to make ends meet. They're worried about health care.
13:31 They're worried about issues because they're harsh. So what would you say to them?
13:35 It's a very good question. I think it's what I've already said. I think it's about putting this
13:43 issue in the campaigns of national legislative elections, for example. We just had Portuguese
13:48 elections, and we are going to speak about that in a moment. But those issues were completely
13:53 absent from the debate. This is just an example. So it's about clarifying the electorate of what
14:00 it means of the consequences of Ukraine's defeat. So those are the choices. It's about clarifying
14:07 the electorate about the choices that they have to make. But those debates need to happen inside
14:11 European societies. And just when it comes to Ukraine, the reason we're having these conversations
14:16 is, of course, because the war is still very much ongoing, almost three years on. And we all remember
14:21 a couple of weeks ago, the French President Emmanuel Macron, what he said, how he was willing
14:26 to put all options on the table. How did you interpret his comments? Well, for me, he was just
14:31 fishing for some headlines, to be honest, because he wasn't really reflecting the image and also the
14:37 position that France has, because according to Kiel's Institute for World Economy, France is
14:43 22nd out of 27 EU member states that have made commitments in percentages of their national GDP
14:52 to Ukraine. So therefore, he's obviously trying. And France is one of the countries that is spending
14:56 the most on defence in the EU. So obviously, according to their equipment, they just want to
15:03 have a greater position, but he doesn't know how to express it. So for me, it was a complete nonsense.
15:09 It was a complete nonsense? I mean, look, yes, the words were not completely
15:14 the right kind of words. Nevertheless, a war means to put real means on the table,
15:23 which is now underway. And on the other hand, to keep possibilities open, but without specifying.
15:30 And he went too far by specifying. This is my critical comment on this. Well, the whole debate
15:38 then opened up about whether or not we should be sending European troops to help Ukrainians who are
15:43 clearly exhausted on the ground. There's a massive recruitment plan over in Ukraine. We've heard
15:47 reports as well of young men just being taken as they go to the supermarket and told to go to the
15:52 front line because they're needed so desperately. And there's also the draft mobilisation bill.
15:56 We've seen the Czech president weigh in, Peter Pavel, saying that there was nothing to prevent
16:02 NATO member states and European countries sending troops as well as civilians to help Ukraine
16:07 fight this war. From your perspective, what would you say here?
16:11 I think that sending troops, Western troops to Ukraine is a very premature discussion. I don't
16:18 think we're there yet. I don't think we as crisis group, of course, we are, we reject any type of
16:25 escalatory rhetoric that can sort of contribute to escalation of tensions and to bring a direct
16:32 confrontation with Russia. So we believe that this type of rhetoric is not helpful
16:38 in any way to bring an end to the conflict. And as much as we support Western, that Western aid
16:48 to Ukraine should continue to, should be a priority for European policymakers, there's a big
16:54 difference between that and engaging in very escalatory rhetoric at this point. But I'm sorry,
17:02 because I think the real problem, which is, I hope, on the table for the European choices in
17:08 the European elections is, on the one hand, we need to build up European defence capability.
17:13 On the other hand, we need to have means to conduct the green transition, the digital transition
17:18 to protect us. And all this is costly. So from my viewpoint, we Europeans, we need to be prepared to
17:26 come up with much stronger financial instruments, combining joint issue of European debt to finance
17:37 very important priorities, which are unavailable. That's a big debate. In fact, that's coming up.
17:43 I've seen a lot of editorials on that point. Would you have a say?
17:45 I mean, I agree, definitely. It's about prioritising and we'll see this in the next
17:49 legislative period. But also, we need to be aware that we are already in a certain point,
17:53 and at a certain level in a war with Russia, there are cyber attacks, we're going to see also now
17:58 interference in the European elections. So there is a real post threat because nowadays wars are
18:03 not only being fought on front, in the air, on the sea, on the land, they're also being fought
18:08 in cyber spectrum. And this is also... So you think Europe should go from here,
18:13 from EU countries, they should mobilise? No, this is far, far away from saying no, no, no.
18:18 Just on something concrete, there was some good news this week for Ukraine on revamping their
18:23 military assistance. And that was the 5 billion euros European peace facility that was agreed on
18:28 on Wednesday by ambassadors here in Brussels after months and months of wrangling. Is this a good
18:33 news? Yes, that's definitely a good news. This was something that was being withheld for a long
18:39 for a few weeks, months, due to Franco-German differences on the modalities on reforming this
18:46 Ukraine Assistance Fund. I think it's definitely news that should be welcomed. We don't know
18:51 exactly how the fund is going to work. And I've seen reports that the fund is meant to reimburse,
19:00 to not to reimburse, sorry, to that the bilateral aid donations are going to be calculated and
19:06 factored in in this fund. So there's still a question mark about what if this is entirely
19:12 new money for Ukraine. But in any case, this initiative coupled with a Czech-led initiative
19:17 of buying ammunition to deliver to Ukraine are very positive signals. And I think a signal also
19:24 that Europe is sort of going in the right direction. And before starting discussing
19:30 sending troops to the ground, these are the issues that we need to focus on.
19:33 This is more concrete. And just on their differences, the Franco-German differences,
19:37 there will be a meeting this Friday between Emmanuel Macron and Olaf Scholz, the Chancellor.
19:41 But I'm afraid we are out of time for that topic. But I'm sure we'll be hearing about it,
19:44 of course, much more in the coming months. But stay with us, because after the break,
19:48 we will have an update on the Portuguese elections. See you soon.
20:00 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, your news weekend talk show with me, Maeve MacMahon. Now,
20:06 this week, the European bubble was digesting the outcome of Portugal's snap parliamentary elections
20:12 that saw the socialists wiped off the map after eight years in power. The big winners, the centre
20:17 right, Alianza Democrática, then the socialists, and then third place went to a newish party on
20:22 the scene, Chega, an anti-establishment nationalist group fronted by André Fentura, a former football
20:29 commentator, seemingly an aspiring priest. Maria, you are, of course, a Portuguese politician,
20:35 you represent the socialist group. What went wrong? How did you lose touch with the people?
20:39 Well, the Socialist Party lost for a small margin, two seats in the parliament and 50,000 votes,
20:48 but it lost. And so we need to take stock seriously. Why? From my viewpoint, the record
20:55 has been positive in the sense of turning the page of austerity after a very painful financial
21:01 crisis, eurozone crisis in Portugal, and then started to raise salaries, creating more jobs,
21:08 raising growth. But at the same time, that's why the Portuguese case is very interesting.
21:12 It was possible to reduce public deficit, public debt to raise the ratings. So it was considered
21:21 an interesting case. How can we have the budgetary responsibility on one hand, but also improve
21:28 people's lives. Nevertheless, then we are confronted with cost of living and several
21:34 criticism and protests coming from particular groups in the health sector, in the education
21:41 sector, even in security, farmers. And we need to understand this.
21:46 We have two Portuguese around the table. We're very privileged here. Well, I know one of the
21:49 big headlines in Brussels from this election was, of course, that it's a very divided parliament
21:54 as well. I mean, what are the reactions have you heard around here?
21:56 Yes, it's a very divided party, parliament, a very fragmented parliament. So I think we're
22:04 following the general European trend where sort of we're seeing a bit the decline of the
22:08 traditional dominance of the central right, the centre right or the centre left. So no stable
22:17 majorities. We don't know if there will be elections anytime soon again, because it's
22:24 very difficult to envision how the government will be able to, how the new government will
22:28 be able to govern without a stable majority. And of course, the rise of the far right, it's
22:34 a serious source of concern for Portugal. It was a very rapid rise. I mean, until 2019,
22:44 this political party Chega was created in 2019. Until then, we didn't have far right in Portugal.
22:52 And Aissandra, Andrew Ventura is all over the papers this week.
22:56 Right. From the centre right perspective, we could perceive the selections with on a positive
23:02 and a negative side. Positive is obviously our candidate, Luis Montenegro, who was also one of
23:06 the key speakers at the EPP Congress last week. He won the elections and the socialists, not only
23:12 did they lose by two seats, by the margin of two votes, but they also lost around, I think,
23:18 74, 77 seats in the National Assembly. And also those elections were called after the corruption
23:25 allegations against the former Prime Minister Costas. So the good news is that now from the
23:32 European Parliament's perspective in Europe, you only have four socialist governments and this is
23:36 ahead of the European elections. On the other side, Andrew Ventura, indeed, he is the, I wouldn't say
23:43 the winner, but he did win the majority and he grew his support by 16% comparing it.
23:48 And he won all the headlines. I mean, let's be honest, everyone's been talking about Andrew
23:52 Ventura all week. But we wanted to get more reactions as well from Portugal. So we spoke
23:57 to the climate analyst Duarte Costa, who told us what this election could mean for the upcoming
24:02 European elections. This election in Portugal is of utmost importance for the rest of the EU.
24:08 We are three months away from the European elections. And what we are seeing here is one
24:14 of the strongholds of European support. We know Portugal is one of the most pro-Europe countries.
24:21 And when I say Portugal, I mean the people of Portugal. This country is now being taken over
24:26 by the far right. If we love Europe, if we love Brussels, like your programme says,
24:31 we have to do something. I think our European EU bubble has failed in making this European
24:37 project that is so important, so beautiful, so unique in the world, close to people's lives.
24:42 Duarte Costa there making the point that governing parties are far away from the
24:46 lives of ordinary people. And he told us he's so frustrated with the state of his country,
24:50 he's actually running for elections. So you might see his face pop up a little bit more. But I mean,
24:55 you're all part of this EU bubble. Has the bubble failed? Martha, to get the message out.
25:00 I think it's unfair to say that the bubble failed. I think national politicians and mainstream
25:06 politicians also failed in addressing the concerns of the voters in trying to be more in touch with
25:13 what the voters are concerned about in their daily lives. Not a lot of debate has been
25:19 happening in Portugal about what does this one million voters that voted for Andre Ventura,
25:24 are they all racists, xenophobes, far right? Are they voting for Andre Ventura because of
25:31 ideological reasons? Not necessarily. A lot of them. I mean, we know that Schäger has been
25:38 capturing votes also from the far left. So it's not necessarily because of ideology. Of course,
25:44 there are some who are voting. We are also seeing a normalisation of the far right rhetoric.
25:49 But I would also say Andre Ventura is a textbook politician, populist politician. He really used
25:55 very, very simple messages to get across to reach out to the citizens. Because also what is
26:01 very interesting for this election is that you had the biggest turnout in since 1995. You had 66.2%
26:07 and he reached out to the young voters, very young voters who really have problems with
26:12 youth unemployment, who have housing issues, the renting prices, they're going up. And we could
26:16 see this all across Europe. He's reaching out to the young voters, not only using their media
26:21 channels, social media, but he also uses people who look like them. He also uses young people that
26:27 are aged from 18 to 22. Did you take some tricks from him perhaps? Look, I think it's really
26:31 important to make a distinction between the far right leaders on one hand and people voting for
26:37 them. And we need to understand people's concerns because in fact, they are people's concerns.
26:42 And my point is that the solution proposed by the far right is not the good one. Why? For two main
26:52 reasons. One, because far right argues that we can meet people's concerns by just changing national
26:59 policies. Most of the problems need to have action at national level, local level, but also European
27:05 level. How can we deal with the climate, migration? But their communication skills are stellar.
27:11 And they're obviously where the people are. Yes. They also promise what they cannot deliver.
27:16 And I'm afraid we'll have to leave it there because we've run out of time, but it's a
27:18 fascinating discussion we will definitely come back to as we get closer to those June elections.
27:23 But thank you so much for being with us. And thank you so much for watching. Take care. And
27:27 we'll see you soon here on Euronews. And of course, if you need more analysis, Euronews.com.
27:40 Welcome back to Brussels, my love. I'm Maeve McMahon, along with Maria Joao Rodrigues,
27:45 Marta Muchnik and Sandra Pasaric. We're just taking a look back at the news of the week.
27:51 And one image that really struck us on the heels, of course, of International Women's Day
27:56 was that of famous Spanish footballers taking centre stage in Strasbourg. You might remember
28:01 their Me Too moment last year when the former Spanish Soccer Federation president, Luis Rubiales,
28:07 kissed the midfielder, Jenny Hermoso, during the awards ceremony this week.
28:12 The ladies told the European Parliament why it was so important for them to be there.
28:15 For what has been achieved in recent years, to move forward for progress. But what we should
28:29 really be here today for is not for the past, but for the future. We have to push forward this path
28:34 hand in hand. And it involves, as with almost everything else, education.
28:37 Sport excites, transforms and educates. We must know how to use it correctly. We must give girls
28:49 all over the world female role models in which they can see themselves reflected. And I'll tell
28:54 you one thing, the next Alexia Poutelas is out there. The next Eitana Bonmati is out there. And
28:59 the next Diane is out there. They just want a chance and we have to give it to them.
29:04 A strong message there that we shouldn't perhaps just be focusing on the Beckhams,
29:08 the Rinaldos of the football world, but also the Poutelas and the Bonmatis, the famous
29:12 Spanish female footballers. Sandra, what do you think has changed, if anything,
29:17 since those World Cup events? Well, I have been indeed following this in real time,
29:21 the infamous kiss between Rubiales and Jenny Hermoso. And you could see really the Spanish
29:27 audience, the Spanish public divided. So it was not so much about that the Spanish national team,
29:33 female team won the World Cup, but it was more about this incident. So I would also say the
29:38 images that we just saw is one side of the coin. So you see there a perfectly Spanish team,
29:43 a female Spanish team winning the Cup, also female European Parliament's president,
29:48 but also on the other side of the coin, there is still a lot of domestic female violence.
29:52 Also in the public, you could also see in condemning also Jenny Hermoso, that she was
29:58 looking basically, she was consenting this kiss. So there is really a long way to go. And the
30:03 European Union's approach should be really comprehensive and more aggressive towards
30:08 the women's rights and equality. I think this episode was deplorable. But what really matters
30:15 is that when it comes to sports, gender equality means for women to have equal chances to practice
30:22 all kinds of sports. And this team has won the World Cup. And they don't have the same conditions
30:28 to practice soccer as men, because they are working women in other jobs, they need to pay
30:35 for their engagement in sports. So there is a lot to be done. This legislature was quite
30:41 predictive in the sense because we could adopt directives on equal pay on women's in boards,
30:48 in work life balance, we improve access to care services. And many would argue,
30:53 many would argue the reason was because we had a female European Commission president.
30:58 And let's bring in Martha on that. I agree with what Sandra and Marie-Joane have said. But I think
31:07 it's key to have female representation in key positions of power, whether in sports, the private
31:12 sector, journalism, politics, anywhere in only then will things actually change. And will these
31:20 issues of sexual harassment, abuse of power, gender pay, gender inequality will be effectively
31:27 tackled when we have women at the top deciding on this matters. And also, regardless of the
31:32 femme commons in the European Parliament, there is still not a not a definition of
31:38 consent based definition of rape on the table. So there are a lot of women suffering from this
31:43 basic right of... Indeed, but I'm afraid we have run out of time. Thank you so much,
31:47 Marie-Joane Rodriguez, Martha Muchnick and Sandra Pasarec for being with us here. And thank you so
31:52 much for watching. And I couldn't sign off, of course, without wishing everyone a very happy
31:57 St. Patrick's Day. Although the 17th of March holiday began as a Christian feast, now it's a
32:02 global weeklong celebration of all things Irish. As usual, if you have any comments for us here,
32:07 please reach out. Brusselsmylove@euronews.com, that is our email address. You can also catch us
32:13 on social media and stay tuned for next week. We'll have a very special edition.
32:17 We'll be live from Brussels with the studio audience. Stay tuned.