Brussels, my love? A mammoth pre-election special
This edition comes to you live from the Albert Hall in Brussels, with a special feature on the EU elections filmed in front of a crowd of 500.
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00:00 [Music]
00:11 Maeve, we're backstage here, you're about to go live with Brussels, my love.
00:15 You don't normally do this in front of a live studio audience, though.
00:18 No, we do not. This is the first time, hopefully, of many.
00:21 We are so excited to bring the show to this stage tonight and see so many regular viewers
00:27 and regular contributions in the audience, so, so lovely. Thank you so much. Great to see you.
00:31 But, before we kick off, I wanted to show you a little bit behind the scenes,
00:35 what a control room looks like. It's hot and sweaty in here, but there's two faces you have to meet.
00:39 I can confirm that. It's very warm.
00:41 Paul and Louise are amazing producers, who you have to take a look at here.
00:44 They'll be making sure that everything runs smoothly on Brussels, my love.
00:47 They've been stressing out over guests, but I think we're all right.
00:50 What should everybody be looking out for in this conversation?
00:53 Well, on Brussels, my love, we love getting concrete and really digging in deep into policies,
00:58 but today it's all about politics. With the elections around the corner,
01:02 I'll be joined by six members of the European Parliament.
01:05 Not all at the same time, because that would be too crowded.
01:08 My job will be to make sure they're short, snappy, to the point,
01:12 and remind them they're not giving a speech in the European plenary chamber.
01:16 They're live on your own news.
01:18 Hello there. Good evening.
01:21 [Applause]
01:29 A warm welcome to this special live edition of Brussels, my love.
01:33 We're broadcasting here from the Albert Hall, and I'm delighted to see you all here in the audience.
01:38 My name is Maeve McMahon. Such an honour to be here.
01:42 Coming up this week on the show, European elections are around the corner.
01:47 Brussels is excited, but are voters?
01:50 With anger rumbling and mumbling all across the continent, we're asking,
01:54 will voters actually go to the polls in June, and will they vote for or against the European Union?
02:01 And with war on European soil and Ukrainian troops flapping with exhaustion,
02:07 we'll be asking whether security and defence are issues that voters are worried about
02:12 as they go to the polls this June.
02:14 We've heard so much about this political union, but is it really a reality, or just a pipe dream?
02:21 A warm welcome to our guest tonight,
02:23 Peter Liese, German member of the European Parliament, representing the European People's Party.
02:28 [Applause]
02:35 Juan Fernando Lopez-Iguilar, Spanish MEP from the Socialists.
02:39 [Applause]
02:45 And Gwendoline D'Epos-Courtfield, French member of the European Parliament and Vice-Chair of the Green Group.
02:51 [Applause]
02:56 Lovely to have you here. A bit different to our normal vibe, but Juan Fernando Lopez-Iguilar,
03:01 I would like to look at you first, because on a serious note,
03:04 nine in ten Europeans, according to a Eurobarometer, are extremely worried about the cost of living crisis.
03:11 Is that the main issue that Spanish voters will be worried about,
03:14 as opposed to all the work you're doing, for example, in the European Parliament?
03:17 Well, actually, in comparative terms, the Spanish economy is doing relatively well, reasonably well,
03:24 but that will not be the point.
03:26 The point is that we are all at stake when it comes to electing the only one directly elected
03:32 supernational legislative body in the world, and it's about the European Union.
03:36 You saw those figures. The Spanish public opinion is still backing the European ideal and the European raison d'être.
03:44 But what about you? The Socialists are not doing so well, Juan Fernando.
03:47 We saw the elections last weekend in Portugal. You only have four heads of state now around the government.
03:52 Yet to be seen, but I reasonably reckon that the social pillar, getting it back on track,
04:00 migration and asylum, implementing the agreement that we achieved latest December within the Spanish presidency,
04:09 and having a reasonable perspective that enlargement will go along with deepening the European Union
04:20 with a change of the decision-making process, will suffice in order to get the people really motivated,
04:28 and particularly the youngsters.
04:30 I was at that conference, the Socialist Congress over in Rome, and there was a feeling of concern.
04:37 But let's bring in the Greens, because according to our special poll that Euronews have conducted
04:43 ahead of the European elections with Ipsos, the Greens are in fact expected to lose a lot of seats.
04:49 Are you losing your appeal across the continent, especially the Greens that are in government?
04:54 They're not doing very well, let's be honest.
04:56 Well, first I'm challenging the polls, because I think that indeed we are going to lose some seats
05:01 in the traditional places where we were strong, but I think that for the moment,
05:05 there appears nowhere the people that we're going to get in Croatia, in Lithuania, in Latvia.
05:11 Today, maybe, I was even talking to someone in Czech Republic, where we could gain one person,
05:17 and this would be a big change for the Greens, because for once, we would have also an eastern,
05:22 baltic, central Europe flavoured. We have been missing for years.
05:26 So that's my first point, and my second point is that indeed, climate change is not as much an issue
05:32 as it was five years ago, but it's our job now to mobilise people.
05:35 In fact, we remember back in 2019, climate was the issue.
05:39 The Friday for Futures marchers were out and about.
05:42 Peter Lieser, let's turn to yourself. You are the lead candidate in North Rhine-Westphalia for the elections,
05:47 Germany's most populous state. You say you're the farmers' party, but are you not worried about the images
05:53 we're seeing of the farmers lately? Did you see the damage they caused when they were in Brussels?
05:58 They've been very destructive as well when protesting in Germany.
06:01 Even the farmers' unions themselves couldn't contain their anger.
06:05 Yeah, when I talk to farmers, of course, I tell them, be careful, follow the rules, and make your point.
06:14 Yeah, you know, you need to follow the rules. Everybody has the right to go to the street and do manifestations,
06:21 but they have to follow the rules, otherwise they will not get the public support, but until now they have it,
06:28 and I think that's a link with your first question, the cost of living.
06:32 When we do too many too rigid rules, like prohibiting plant protection products in agriculture land,
06:40 that was on the table, and fortunately the proposal has been withdrawn by Ursula von der Leyen in the plenary,
06:47 if we have such regulation, then of course the cost of living will increase.
06:53 Food was the driver of inflation during the last months, and that's the reason, not only the points that the farmers make,
07:01 but also the effects on average people. That's why I don't accept when they break the rules of law,
07:09 but I have their point.
07:11 But they burn things in Brussels, and they get FaceTime with the Prime Minister of Belgium,
07:14 and with the President of the European Commission, many would argue they're getting very special treatments.
07:19 I have met only farmers that were addressing me in a correct way, so I'm not responsible for Mr. de Kool.
07:26 Let's keep an eye on those farmers. I'd like to bring in some voices now from the streets of Brussels,
07:30 because I'm sure most people in this room are registered to vote, but are people here on the streets of Brussels,
07:35 are they registered to vote, do they know about the vote, and what would be on their minds, I wonder, when they're voting?
07:41 Election, like, what do you mean?
07:47 I'm from the Netherlands and I'll definitely be voting.
07:49 I'm hoping that people will come out to vote, and particularly young people, because I do think there is a more progressive vote there.
07:55 I'm from Italy, I'll be voting yes.
07:58 Climate change, for sure, peace.
08:01 I'm from Belgium, Antwerp, and I don't, kind of, vote. I don't know how it works.
08:06 I'm half Belgian, half Irish, and yes, indeed, I will be voting.
08:09 I think the rise of the far right is quite scary, I have to say.
08:12 I'm from Leuven, and I will vote.
08:14 Immigration is a theme, and I'm not thinking that Europe is resolving it very well.
08:20 No, because I have no trust anymore in any government, any political system.
08:29 It's our duty to vote, and we will vote.
08:31 I'm from Sweden, and I will be voting.
08:33 I haven't studied the participants particularly carefully, so I have to do that.
08:38 I would want a candidate, or at least some political party, that will really hold it dear to its heart, to, like, make sure that the transition is going to happen.
08:46 So lots of food, I think, for thought in that clip.
08:48 Very interesting how one lady was counting on the young people for the progressive vote, but then some young people interviewed there,
08:55 and we're not even aware that there were votes this June.
08:57 Gwendoline, does that feel like a bit of a thump in your stomach?
09:00 No. I mean, first, I'm in fact surprised, because most of them knew.
09:05 So you chose people around the Parliament.
09:07 I'm sure you would have gone other streets in Brussels.
09:10 You would have had much more people that don't know about elections.
09:13 How would people know?
09:14 I mean, you know, when do our national politicians talk about Europe?
09:18 When do they put Europe at the middle of the discussions?
09:21 Today, European legislation has a great influence and impact in our everyday life, and in France, for example, it is never, ever a debate in media and in politician world.
09:31 How would they know?
09:32 Well, your news will be inter-railing across the continent ahead of those elections to pick up some voices outside the urban areas and cities, which, of course, views differ hugely.
09:40 But, of course, you'll be competing in these elections with the likes of Jorgen Bardella, the 28-year-old French leader of the national rally.
09:47 He's a sensation on TikTok. Are you, Juan Fernando?
09:50 I'm trying to, but the thing is that this has been the existential challenge of the European Union throughout its history.
09:57 It's always been like that.
09:58 I mean, the European Parliament directly represents 403 million European citizens in 27 member states, and yet they don't know enough about it.
10:07 Of course, there's Euro news, but that's not enough.
10:10 We need to build up a European public opinion.
10:12 We need to build up a European citizenship.
10:14 We need to build up a European sense of belonging to the European experience.
10:18 And that is the opportunity we have whenever we have elections to get the people going, to get the people going for vote,
10:25 because the laws we make in the European Parliament are determining the national legislation of all 27 member states.
10:32 Most of them are framed more than that, determined by the EU legislation.
10:37 So, you're convinced, you know, but that's the pitch you need to bring to your voters.
10:40 But let's now step down to our studio audience and bring in one very engaged one lady.
10:46 She's a climate activist and environmental and justice campaigner.
10:50 Her name is Chloe Mikulakcak, and she's here with us tonight.
10:53 We are thrilled to have you.
10:54 Please pose your question to our panel.
10:56 Thank you very much for inviting me.
10:58 So, indeed, I am a climate and social justice activist, and I have a question for the panelists.
11:03 So, two weeks ago, the European Environmental Body, who is essentially an institution of scientists that's tasked with advising the EU institutions on environmental matters,
11:14 published a report that essentially said that Europe is dangerously unprepared to face the consequences of climate breakdown,
11:21 and that we need to urgently pick up the pace when it comes both to mitigation but also adaptation.
11:26 What we're talking about is literally hundreds of lives that will be lost just from heat waves,
11:33 and we're talking about one trillion euros in cost every year just from coastal floodings.
11:37 So, we definitely need the Green Deal more than ever, but at the same time, there are people on this panel that are representing political parties
11:44 that are currently colluding with some economic interests that are doing everything to preserve the status quo,
11:50 and even in some cases with the far right to essentially kill the Green Deal.
11:54 Commissioner Skeldes mentioned that young people need to go out to vote, and indeed, they do,
12:00 but they do care about climate breakdown, and they do care about the cost of living crisis.
12:04 So, my question is quite simple, and it should be able to be answered by yes or no.
12:08 It's do you still stand, or do you stand nowadays for a pause on environmental regulation or not?
12:14 Thank you so much, Chloé Michalakos, for that question.
12:18 [Applause]
12:22 Now, we're not going to ask the Greens to answer that question, because we know your answer,
12:25 so let's perhaps start with the European People's Party.
12:27 Peter Lieser, very simple question.
12:30 The answer is, of course, yes, and I ask everybody watching this show and looking at European politics to don't be superficial.
12:40 You know, the biggest climate law ever, the ETS, has been not only supported by my political group.
12:49 I was a rapporteur, the leading rapporteur, and the most important new part of this, the ETS2 for road transport and for heating,
13:00 was opposed by five political groups, the far right, the ECR, the left, the Socialists, and the Greens.
13:09 And so, this is the truth.
13:12 I fighted it through. I convinced, step by step, many, many colleagues, and I'm still very proud of this,
13:19 and I will defend this biggest law.
13:23 On the other hand, we had a lot of detailed, very bureaucratic legislations, which I think we rightly opposed.
13:32 So, being in favor of climate policy doesn't mean being in favor of all the details.
13:39 Let's fight about the right way and not be superficial.
13:43 Climate is a priority for me, and we'll fight for the implementation of the ETS as long as I can.
13:49 Thank you for that answer, Peter.
13:51 Lisa, even though in Bucharest at the EPP Congress, the Green Deal was getting a couple of boos,
13:55 but I'm afraid we'll have to leave that topic there.
13:57 This is also superficial.
13:58 I was there.
13:59 You shouldn't repeat it unless you give me the opportunity.
14:02 I'm not in favor of the Green Deal, but I'm very much in favor of our Congress document that we need to look more on competitiveness.
14:10 No Indian, no Chinese will follow us if we are not competitive.
14:13 We need to bring the things together, climate and competitiveness, and that is in our document.
14:19 Peter, we're going to stop you there.
14:21 But I have to say that I was there, and when names like Greta Thunberg and Franz Timmerman were mentioned,
14:26 there was a lot of booing in that room.
14:28 We're going to move on with the next topic here, because of course now we have a little bit of a flavor of what will be on the minds of voters this June.
14:36 But what about the future of the European Union?
14:38 Where do we stand here internally and, of course, as well on the global stage?
14:43 Juan Fernando, you've been an MEP now for 15 years.
14:47 Do you think the future of the European Union is bright or very, very bumpy?
14:52 The world is bumpy and, really, more than ever before.
14:56 The world order that we built up after the Second World War is fading away before our very eyes, and we need to go global.
15:05 The European Union needs to go global.
15:08 It takes global actors, and our scale of being globally relevant is the European Union.
15:12 No member state can make it on its own.
15:14 No France, no Germany, no the smaller ones.
15:17 No one can make it on its own.
15:19 So we need actually to stick together and take ourselves seriously.
15:22 When it comes to security matters, when it comes to Green Deal, fair green transition, no one can blame the European Union for not having tried its mandate of making it right.
15:33 And we need to open up a conversation about the future of the European Union.
15:36 That is what we're having.
15:37 It is a democratic choice.
15:38 So do we, Gwendolyn, need to change the voting rules and reduce, for example, national veto power?
15:43 Of course we need.
15:44 I mean, I think that one Prime Minister has shown this very clearly to everyone.
15:49 He's called Viktor Orban, and he has been using this leverage for months now, not only to suppress rights for his own citizens, but today he is a danger for all EU.
15:59 He's even a danger for the accession, because some member states are thinking, should we open to Ukraine and the Balkans when we already have Orban inside?
16:07 So, yes, we need to have a better balance between what we do in Parliament, we are the representative of citizens, what the commissioners do,
16:16 and what the member states have as powers at the final moment.
16:20 And today, on certain things, they are even abusing the power they have.
16:24 They don't have to do unanimity all the time.
16:27 It's even the laws today that they are abusing, because even when unanimity is not needed, they still do it.
16:33 And this is encouraging someone like Viktor Orban, and tomorrow probably others.
16:37 And you, Peter Lise, you've been a member of the European Parliament for 30 years.
16:42 Almost, yeah.
16:43 Almost 30 years.
16:44 Do you sometimes get very cynical about how it functions?
16:47 Sorry?
16:48 Do you get cynical and frustrated sometimes about it?
16:51 I hope not.
16:52 We see challenges, but we also see again and again the pro-Europeans teaming up and defending our values.
17:02 In the last European election in Germany, the opinion polls also said that the far right will be very strong,
17:11 but society mobilized, not only politicians.
17:14 I agree with Margaritas, it shouldn't only be the politicians.
17:17 It should be society explaining why Europe is important.
17:22 And we managed to get the far right in Germany lower than in the national elections.
17:28 And I saw opinion polls in Germany where we can repeat this story.
17:33 So we can.
17:34 I'm quite optimistic for the outcome of this election, at least in the country I know best.
17:40 Other countries I cannot value.
17:43 We can make it if we use the next weeks to really mobilize the center, and I think the center is pro-European.
17:51 Well, let's see.
17:52 Just on that note on the future of the European Union, I'd like to step down into our audience once again and bring in Petros Vassilis.
17:59 He is the Secretary General of the campaign group, the European Movement.
18:04 So a man who's been studying how the European Union functions for decades.
18:08 So, Petros, lovely to see you.
18:09 Can you please now pose your question to our panel?
18:12 Of course.
18:13 The question is about enlargement, one of the most successful tools in the EU's arsenal to promote prosperity, stability, and peace.
18:22 Now, we have a whole host of countries applying to join the EU, not least because of the precarious situation across our continent and beyond.
18:30 How can the EU prepare economically, but also institutionally, to welcome these countries in, and what effect the next enlargement will have,
18:39 both on the member states that are currently members, but also those that are about to join?
18:44 Thank you so much, Petros.
18:45 Great question there.
18:47 Juan Fernando, would you like to tackle that?
18:49 That is the right approach.
18:50 When we spoke of enlargement, we usually tend to think that we are examining candidates.
18:55 We have to examine ourselves.
18:56 Are we ready to enlarge with this decision-making, with the scale of the parliament?
19:00 Are we ready to incorporate Ukrainian MEPs, Moldavian MEPs, the Balkans MEPs, without change when it comes to decision-making, without change when it comes to policy-making?
19:15 No.
19:16 Of course, the answer is no.
19:17 We've got to get ready for it.
19:19 We've got to keep up.
19:20 We've got to live up to our promise.
19:22 I understand that enlargement has a positive dimension.
19:25 It means that we are still attractive, that we are still a beacon, not only of hope, as we usually say,
19:31 but also of actual improvement of the quality of life and the expectations of so many European citizens around us,
19:38 which are just longing to be part of us, to belong.
19:42 But then, still, we have to take ourselves seriously.
19:46 We cannot simply, without any self-criticism, tell the people,
19:51 "We are counting on you, we are getting you on board," without taking seriously what kind of a challenge it is.
19:58 Think of agricultural policy, think of own resources, think of budgets, think of the parliament.
20:06 That's a lot to think about. I'm going to stop you there.
20:08 It takes a lot of energy to incorporate all those who are being somehow incentived to be part of the European government.
20:14 The German government, though, has asked for this topic of enlargement to be kind of muted for the next couple of months,
20:20 while you're in campaign mode. Is that a good idea?
20:23 I think we need to prepare ourselves.
20:25 I fully agree that our structure is not ready for enlargement, but that means we need to change it.
20:31 On the other hand, when you mention the German government, the most urgent thing is, you know,
20:36 people in Ukraine are, of course, waiting for being a part of the European Union.
20:42 On the other hand, they are about to lose the war.
20:46 I'm really concerned that during a few months, maybe even before we vote for the Commission President
20:52 or the whole Commission in the second part of the year, we will see another scenario.
20:57 And I really hope that all Europeans mobilize in favor of Ukraine.
21:02 And when the Chancellor is praising the current German government, there is something wrong.
21:09 I'm with the Greens here.
21:11 Well, let's get the view here of the Greens on this.
21:13 Annalena Baerbock is right in that question.
21:15 Well, we need to engage in another way that we've been doing for years.
21:18 We need to involve citizens and civil society much more.
21:22 We have to challenge the governments that are still too much corrupted.
21:27 We have to challenge autocratic tendencies because we need these countries to be fulfilling democracy.
21:33 And there's a huge path for that.
21:35 It can be done, but we're not strict and severe enough with the oligarchs that are sometimes coming up in these countries.
21:42 So institutionally, we need to change the way that we work with them.
21:45 And then economically, well, yes, we need to own resources and we need to enlarge the way that we work together.
21:52 And once again, unanimity is one of the biggest blockages in all of this.
21:56 A lot to do, but I'm afraid I'll have to stop you there as we have come to the end of our panel.
22:01 Thank you so much to our guests.
22:03 Ladies and gentlemen, a round of applause for Peter Lise, Juan Fernando Lopaz-Guillard and Gwendolyn Delcos-Cortiel.
22:09 [Applause]
22:22 And now it's time to head over to Ida Sanchez from Euronews, who's been taking a look at social media throughout the day
22:29 and hear what people there have been saying about the upcoming European elections and also the topics we're covering here tonight.
22:35 Indeed, Maeve. So one of the key points of this election is that all politicians are trying to reach young voters.
22:41 And despite the surge of participation in young people in 2018, we all know that young voters are the most difficult to convince.
22:49 So the truth is that the young generations are the ones that will shape the future.
22:53 We all know social media will play a huge role.
22:56 We have seen jobs standing for topics such as climate, gender equality, and all those emerged as youngsters were becoming more and more engaged.
23:06 So in Euronews, we have posed a question to our social media followers.
23:10 And the question is, should 16-year-old voters be allowed to vote EU-wide in the European elections?
23:17 You may all know already that in Belgium, Germany or Austria, 16-year-olds will be allowed to vote from these elections.
23:24 But the answer that we got from our social media followers is clear.
23:28 62% of them think that young citizens, young people from 16-year-olds should not be allowed to vote in this European elections.
23:37 So I'm sure that your next guests will want to tackle this question, Maeve.
23:42 We will indeed. Thank you so much to Euronews' Ida Sanchez.
23:46 But now, welcome back to Brussels, my love.
23:49 If you've just joined us, we're here broadcasting live from the Albert Hall in Brussels.
23:55 Brussels, my love, is our weekly flagship show with me, Maeve McMahon.
23:59 Coming up on this panel, with the clock ticking down to the EU elections, we're asking if Europeans are as motivated as the Brussels bubble.
24:08 And if people will be voting for a more integrated EU or less.
24:13 We'll also be asking if security and defence issues will be on their minds.
24:19 A very warm welcome to Michiel Hogeven, Dutch, member of the European Parliament representing the European Conservatives and Reformists.
24:26 Mark Boutenga, Belgian, member of the European Parliament from the Left Group.
24:31 And Abir Alsalani, Swedish MEP from Renew Europe.
24:35 Thank you so much for joining us. Lovely to have you here at our special live edition of Brussels, my love.
24:40 Abir, I'm going to start with you.
24:43 You're in campaign mode. So what are you pitching to Swedes?
24:47 Are you pitching more EU, more integrated EU or less?
24:51 The Centre Partidet in Sweden are pitching keep the limits.
24:56 And it is also keeping the limits to the far right, keeping the limits towards Putin,
25:01 but also keeping the limits to the over-bureaucracy of Brussels that tends to harm our reputation as pro-Europeans.
25:11 So keeping the limits will be our pitch to our voters, both when it comes to ideology but also over-bureaucracy.
25:19 And Mark Boutenga, what about you? How have you been getting on as we head towards these elections?
25:23 Well, I think, I mean, the poll you showed is very clear.
25:26 There's no majority for, you know, the people don't want more EU competence, more centralisation.
25:32 And you see this disconnect with European politicians.
25:34 The majority of European politicians, those in parliament, systematically vote in favour, right?
25:39 Now, this would be a good idea if you had an EU that serves the people.
25:42 But the people have seen over the last years, like with the energy crisis, right?
25:46 I mean, the massive purchasing power crisis.
25:49 People were expecting measures from the EU.
25:51 It took one year, one year, before the first real measures came, and they were never applied.
25:57 So people are like, alright, this EU, it speaks about social rights, democracy, whatever.
26:02 But when we have issues, they're unable to block the prices, to block the energy prices.
26:07 And they can meet each other at Versailles and whatever, you know, be fancy.
26:11 They get 30,000 euros a month, but they abandon us.
26:15 So we don't want to give them more power.
26:17 And that's a powerful signal that should be heard.
26:20 What's your take on all this?
26:21 Well, we're campaigning on a European Union that the citizens actually want.
26:26 And that is when you look at the polls, indeed, you showed the figures.
26:29 There was also a poll conducted in the Netherlands.
26:31 I think it was 48% who said we don't want any more legislation going to the, or power going to the European Union.
26:38 So what we're saying is we should go back to the basics of the European Union.
26:42 What was the European Union? What made it such a successful project?
26:45 That's the common market. That's free trade.
26:47 That's what people want from the European Union.
26:49 They want free trade and to tackle migration.
26:51 And of course the big question is...
26:52 But also human rights and democracy and freedom.
26:55 And that is very, very apparent, even in Holland.
26:58 [Applause]
27:02 If I may respond to that, the initial idea of the European Union was to create freedom via free trade.
27:11 To create interdependence.
27:13 That's what people wanted from the European Union.
27:15 Not this overarching, ever-expanding bureaucracy.
27:17 Freedom is created by values.
27:21 But freedom that perhaps has been taken for granted, no?
27:24 Well, we see that freedom is under threat, but we also see that freedom is still very much expanding in the world.
27:30 We see that if we initiate free trade, if we have countries around the world having a middle class,
27:36 being able to prosper, for example, via more free trade agreements, we can create a better world.
27:41 Well, you're convinced. I mean, the question is, are voters convinced?
27:45 And will voters go out? Because the turnout wasn't brilliant back in 2019.
27:49 One in two Europeans went out to vote.
27:52 And one lady that's trying to change that is the European Parliament President, Roberta Metzola.
27:57 She's been on a whistle-top tour around the continent trying to encourage people to vote.
28:01 That's why she couldn't be with us here physically tonight, but she did prepare a special message.
28:06 First of all, greetings to everyone here at the Euronews On Air event.
28:12 Over the last years, Europe has delivered in an unprecedented way, and I think this is widely recognised across the continent.
28:20 We have procured vaccines for all. We have been firm and united in our support for Ukraine.
28:26 And we are bolstering our collective security.
28:30 However, we cannot become complacent. We need to keep delivering and making the case for Europe.
28:36 But we must also be honest about where we could have done better.
28:40 If we do not listen to people's concerns and worries, we will lose out to those who just want to destroy rather than build.
28:48 My message is, do not take Europe for granted. Your vote matters.
28:52 It matters for our freedom, our rights and our way of life.
28:57 Your vote matters for the kind of Europe you want to see.
29:00 The people you elect will shape policies and adopt legislation that will affect your everyday life, day in, day out.
29:09 Do not let anyone else choose for you. Vote.
29:13 Reverse Metzeler there, the President of the European Parliament, making the point that politicians need to be more honest.
29:19 That you've been too complacent, too comfortable there.
29:22 I always find it entertaining when I look at the Brussels bubble that we are always shocked.
29:27 So we had the referendum in the Netherlands on the European constitution. We had the one in France. We had the Brexit referendum.
29:33 And we are always shocked. When we see these polls, we are always shocked.
29:36 But maybe we should look at ourselves and look at the voters and say, OK, why are people voting in this certain way?
29:44 Maybe it's because they want a course correction of the European Union.
29:47 They want the European Union to do less with more support instead of doing more with less support.
29:52 And they want to be heard. People that we speak to all across the continent on your news field, they're always left outside in the cold.
29:58 They do not have a say and they're not participating.
30:02 Well, I mean, I tend to disagree with my ECR colleague here.
30:07 Our main problem is that we have members of the parliament wanting way too much.
30:15 Let's be honest. I mean, from the right to the left, they want way too much, me included.
30:20 And then you have a commission that sometimes tries to strike a balance but fails in the follow up of the implementation of the law.
30:28 We have a lot of very nice legislation that they are not implementing and the commission is not doing anything about it.
30:34 And then you have the council. I mean, Charles Michel was here just a second ago.
30:38 The council that is always saying no to basically everything that comes, the good and the bad.
30:43 So how can we then explain to our viewers what's going on, what Brussels is all about?
30:48 Yeah, I mean, that will be actually, that is the self-reflection that we need to do as politicians in all three institutions.
30:57 How are we strengthening Europe by doing what we are doing?
31:01 And this brings me back to the question. We talk about giving more power to Brussels. How much power should the parliament have?
31:08 I think the parliament is a democratic institution. It's elected, so it should have power.
31:12 But let's be clear. This is about policy. People want to see policy.
31:16 If you go to, you know, who has the power and whatever, it's an important debate.
31:20 But people want to see measures. We're in Brussels, right?
31:23 In Brussels, one out of three people here are at risk of poverty. One out of three.
31:28 Many people inside the bubble do not even know this, do not even care about this.
31:33 And so then you can be there, yeah, we need to be pro-European.
31:36 People want to see results. Throughout Europe we have these issues.
31:39 And so unless we get a clear breakaway with the current economic policies of the European Union
31:44 and a refusal, for example, of the return of austerity, people will turn away.
31:49 Well, would you be willing, for example, to take a pay cut on that very handsome salary?
31:53 Oh, absolutely. Not only this, I'll tell you this.
31:56 I've continued to live at the basics of the average salary of a Belgian worker throughout my mandate.
32:03 Because I do believe that if you get 30,000 euros like the Commission President,
32:07 you cannot know what European workers are living or going through.
32:10 And that has a massive impact on your policy.
32:13 Because if you don't know, if you're not afraid of that energy bill that's going to come into your post,
32:19 you're not going to take the measures that the people need.
32:23 And indeed we cited that Eurobarometer earlier saying that nine in ten Europeans were kept up at night
32:28 worrying about making ends meet, a topic that we will see come to the forefront in these elections.
32:33 But I'd like to move on to our next topic, our fourth and final topic,
32:37 which is that of this talk of a geopolitical union.
32:40 Those were the words of the European Commission President, Ursula von der Leyen,
32:43 when she gave her pitch to members of the Parliament back in 2019.
32:47 It was following on from Jean-Claude Juncker's words about his political commission.
32:52 So, Michiel, looking at you five years later, are we really a geopolitical heavyweight?
32:58 The European Union should be a geopolitical weight in terms of the economy.
33:02 We have three pillars in our security on the European continent.
33:08 The first one is the member states. They protect democracy, they protect sovereignty.
33:12 The second is NATO. NATO is there for our collective security.
33:19 If you pay up to NATO, you have an effective collective security alliance,
33:23 together with our friends across the Atlantic.
33:26 And the third one is the European Union. That's our economic security.
33:29 We should go to countries, we should engage with them, we should have free trade agreements,
33:33 because currently China is eating our lunch and our dinner.
33:37 China is eating our lunch and our dinner. Would you agree with that, Abir?
33:40 Well, we have not been playing in that game for a while,
33:45 because we have been making it so difficult for our companies to actually,
33:49 thanks to the left and the far right, to actually be competitive on the global arena.
33:55 We are putting on more and more administrative burden and red tape.
33:59 We are making it much more difficult to actually be a part of the global competition,
34:04 and we are blocking, or some of us, some of you, are blocking even international or EU trade agreements.
34:12 So, I mean, yes, we want that, but on the other hand,
34:16 I mean, no power is blocking it because you are ideological.
34:20 So, you have to decide somewhere what do you want.
34:23 You have to have your ideas clear in your head.
34:26 But you mentioned NATO, and of course EU-NATO relations have improved a lot in the last couple of years,
34:30 whereas a few years ago the institution was brain dead, according to some.
34:35 Now it is revitalizing, it is expanding, Sweden just joins,
34:38 and Jens Stoltenberg, the Secretary General, is showing up a lot more in the European Parliament,
34:43 and he actually prepared us also a comment for tonight's show.
34:47 Take a listen now to the Secretary General of NATO.
34:50 To prevent the war from escalating to a full-fledged war between Russia and NATO,
34:58 and the way we have done that is to increase our military presence in the eastern part of the Alliance,
35:02 with more battle groups, with more forces, with high readiness,
35:05 we just now have a big exercise called "Steadfast Defenders" with tens of thousands of troops,
35:10 demonstrating to Ukraine our ability to reinforce, to protect all NATO Allies.
35:16 And as long as we do that, there will be no attack on the NATO Allied country,
35:20 because Russia knows that the whole Alliance is there.
35:24 Secretary General there of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, Mark Boettinger,
35:28 is this something that your voters, or potential voters, are worried about,
35:31 that there could be an invasion in EU countries in the coming months,
35:34 and we might not be prepared?
35:36 I think when I speak to people, many of them are actually concerned about where this Europe is going.
35:43 So they're getting the message of the return of austerity,
35:45 so they're getting the message that there will be cuts in pensions,
35:48 there will be cuts in social services, public services,
35:50 and at the same time, we're being told that there's going to be a lot more money going to the military industry.
35:55 And they're like, "How is that possible? Why are there cuts for us,
35:58 but there's so much money for the military industry?"
36:00 And there's one question which I thought was particularly interesting,
36:03 said we're already spending three to four times more as European countries than Russia on defence.
36:07 If we're unable with that amount of money to defend ourselves, where's that money gone?
36:11 And now we need to give those same politicians that with that money have been unable to create a decent defence,
36:17 more money. Never.
36:18 So this is, I think, a very strong concern.
36:20 And I think if we want to look at threats, a real threat is the escalation of this war
36:25 into a regional or a continental conflict with nuclear weapons.
36:29 And this requires diplomacy.
36:31 And on this, we need a breakaway.
36:33 The European Union stands weaker today than it stood at the beginning of the Van der Leyen Commission.
36:37 Why? Double standards.
36:39 Let's bring in Michiel.
36:40 You have not had the same standards on your trade.
36:41 Michiel's take on that, and all this talk in this town about potential defence commissioner in the upcoming commission,
36:46 also 1.5 billion euros being earmarked in future budgets in order to publicly procure together when it comes to arms.
36:53 In Brussels, there's now this cliché that we should be very afraid of the one who is in the White House
36:58 because it will be a threat to our collective security.
37:01 Well, we've been a threat to our own collective security by not investing enough in our own defence industry.
37:06 So that's one.
37:07 Now, the second is, ask yourself.
37:10 So we want to be more European on the defence front.
37:14 So we want to be less reliant on the one who is in the White House.
37:17 So we make ourselves more reliant on the actors that we all here are so afraid of.
37:21 Orbán, the former Polish government.
37:23 So we want to work more together with them instead of the one that's on the White House?
37:27 I don't think so.
37:28 But what about your voters, Michiel?
37:29 Are they happy to pay more when it comes to defence?
37:31 Are they concerned about war?
37:33 Of course. Of course.
37:34 I think that the geopolitical reality is now showing that our freedom, that our democracy, that our ways of life are under threat.
37:44 That the geopolitical tides are shifting.
37:46 So we should be stronger aligned with our allies, with our democratic allies across the world.
37:51 Fabiër?
37:52 Well, you know, I am maybe one of very few politicians acting today who actually survived two wars during my lifetime.
38:00 And for me, creating a better future for my children is of utter importance.
38:07 And you cannot create a safe future without these two things.
38:12 Cooperation in Europe, but also security and defence and boots on the ground.
38:17 With that, I'm not meaning that we should have a European army,
38:20 but we should have a very strong cooperation within the NATO of the European pillar.
38:25 Because Trump is very, very clear with what is his agenda.
38:30 He even invited certain countries to bomb EU member, NATO members,
38:37 if they were not to be paying their economic, financial obligations towards the NATO.
38:43 So, of course, who comes to the White House will be utterly relevant to how the NATO will function.
38:49 But with that said, we should strengthen the European axle inside the NATO and try to cooperate more there.
38:58 Do you know that for every six Russian missiles that are fired at Ukraine, Ukraine is firing back one missile?
39:07 This is actually what is at stake, ladies and gentlemen.
39:11 And don't be fooled by this thing about diplomacy.
39:14 Ukraine must win this war because Ukraine's victory means European security.
39:19 And on that note, that Ukraine must win this war.
39:22 [Applause]
39:27 We have come to the end of this very special live edition of Brussels, My Love.
39:32 A very, very warm welcome to our panellists, Michiel Hoogheven, Mark Boutenga and Abir Aslani, for being with us.
39:38 And thank you for watching.
39:40 [Applause]
39:44 [Music]