In this edition of Brussels, my love?, we discuss the recent anti-migrant riots in Dublin and the different far-right movements across Europe.
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00:00 [Music]
00:12 Hello there and welcome to "Brussels, je t'aime", Euronews' weekly talk show,
00:17 where we take a look at some of the issues in the news of late
00:21 and hear what's at stake for you and for Europe.
00:23 I'm Maeve McMahon, thanks for joining us.
00:26 Coming up this week, all eyes on Ireland.
00:29 The island known for its 100,000 welcomes hit the headlines last week for all the wrong reasons.
00:36 The Irish government blamed hooligans, inspired by right-wing ideology for these scenes.
00:41 Locals say Ireland is open and safe though,
00:43 but underneath lies a thread of structural issues seen also across Europe.
00:48 We take a closer look at what is going on and why.
00:51 And COP28 has kicked off in Dubai.
00:55 Climate scientists, climate activists and the UN are shouting, "Hurry up, the world is on fire!"
01:01 But across Europe the message is, "Slow down, the EU Green Deal might just have to wait."
01:06 With European businesses and people struggling to make ends meet,
01:09 we're asking if Europe's new green growth model should be put on hold.
01:13 A warm welcome to our guests this week.
01:15 Pedro Marques, Portuguese MEP from the Socialist Party, good to see you.
01:20 Rebecca Christie, Europe columnist for Breaking Views and Senior Fellow at the economic think tank Bruegel.
01:27 And Lars-Patrik Berg, a German MEP from the European Conservatives and Reformists.
01:32 Good to have you with us.
01:34 Well, thank you so much for joining us.
01:36 But as usual, before we hear your views, let's just remind our viewers what has got us talking here this week.
01:41 It's over one week since a shocking knife attack left three wounded in Dublin,
01:49 and triggered hundreds of thugs to riot, loot and cause chaos in the streets.
01:53 Provoked by rumors of the alleged perpetrator's immigrant background,
02:00 a far-right mob set vehicles ablaze and clashed with police.
02:03 As Ireland digests the implications, recent elections across Europe show a xenophobic worldview rising and shaping politics.
02:13 Last week, Geert Wilders surged in the Dutch general elections,
02:17 a rising trend that includes Italy's Giorgia Maloney.
02:20 Polls showing rising support for similar parties ahead of next year's European Parliament elections.
02:27 We ask if far-right populism has left the fringe for the mainstream.
02:31 So that is the question we're posing here this weekend.
02:38 But first, let's just take a look or think about those images we've seen from Dublin.
02:42 How have they been viewed here in Brussels, Pedro?
02:46 To me it was a shock, to be honest.
02:48 And I think it was in general that this is spreading so much, to be honest.
02:53 I mean, just the same day or the previous night that this happened in Dublin,
02:59 here in Belgium, I think it was even here in Brussels,
03:03 there was an attack to some Jewish burial sites, specifically from some Jewish families.
03:10 And we see this and we go back in time and this is all awful.
03:14 This is indeed happening too much in Europe.
03:16 This hatred is coming back, this incapacity to coexist different people,
03:23 different religions, different colours, even choices.
03:28 This is coming back and this is indeed shocking.
03:31 And I refuse to give up to this situation, to be honest.
03:34 And we must refuse to give up to this situation.
03:37 We need to go back to be a society of tolerance, because that's what defines Europe.
03:42 Honestly, that's my first word.
03:44 It's easier said than done, right, Rebecca Christie?
03:46 It's so hard.
03:47 In each and every one of these communities there are specific factors
03:50 that make people angry and that make them suspicious of outsiders.
03:53 In Dublin all I could think of was the housing crisis.
03:56 People have been looking for places to live for so long.
03:59 And you can understand why they might turn to something from the outside,
04:03 because there haven't been any internal solutions.
04:06 In the Netherlands we see a situation where people are just so frustrated.
04:09 They feel like they're not being heard.
04:11 They feel like people who can move around are doing so at the expense of the people
04:14 who have to stay where they are.
04:16 What about yourself?
04:17 What is your take on what's been going on in Dublin?
04:19 I know also over in Lyon as well we saw earlier this week riots, similar riots.
04:23 Well, these events in Dublin are very concerning.
04:26 And what happened in the Netherlands and Goerd Wilders being really elected
04:35 by so many people is concerning as well.
04:38 I think this happens because if you don't listen to your electorate
04:42 there will be more Wilders and more Dublins, unfortunately.
04:46 And therefore I think we really have to tackle the problem not only of migration,
04:50 housing, inflation, et cetera.
04:52 Otherwise people will get very, very, very angry across Europe in all of our societies.
04:57 And then hatred and less solidarity will be the way people interact with each other.
05:07 We want to actually get some more context on why these scenes erupted in Dublin
05:11 during rush hour on the main shopping street just before Black Friday.
05:15 So we checked in with Cian O'Cruher.
05:17 He's a professor in criminology at the University of Maynooth.
05:21 COVID really was a radicalising moment in that it brought a lot more people who were
05:25 people who were just opposed to the lockdown conditions.
05:28 And they became exposed initially to kind of anti-vaccine and anti-lockdown conspiracy theories
05:34 and then graduated from that onto more extreme racist and transphobic and homophobic ideologies.
05:43 I think there's more going on than just anti-immigrant racism.
05:46 But it seems like we are going to see more attacks, particularly as the Irish State Police
05:52 have been very reluctant to take on the emergent threat of the far right in Ireland.
05:57 There's a lot of mythology, self-mythologising by Irish people about just how welcoming we are.
06:02 We've had one of the most restrictive regimes in Europe in terms of taking in asylum seekers.
06:08 So Professor Cian O'Cruher there trying to paint a picture, Rebecca, of the situation over in Ireland.
06:15 I mean, the problem is here, he says, is the police are not tackling the issues of the rise in extremists.
06:21 And if you look at a voice message, in fact, that was sent out on Telegram that evening,
06:25 the evening that mob immobilised, and may I point out they were aged between 19 and 57,
06:30 there was messages like, kill all immigrants, enough is enough.
06:34 I mean, this is very dangerous. This goes beyond people's frustrations,
06:37 the fact that they have to be so violent and so disruptive.
06:41 It's important to separate the police response, which needs to tackle immediate emerging threats to public safety,
06:48 from the policymaking environment and the political environment that creates the conditions for this.
06:54 In general, if communities are prosperous, if they have enough jobs,
06:58 if they have enough places for people to live enough places in school for children,
07:02 you don't see the widespread sort of eruption of these fears.
07:06 And it's when gaps start to emerge in the society that you start seeing space for this sort of thing,
07:14 which can be very dangerous.
07:16 Is it like almost like a new wave of the gilets jaunes, the yellow vests, but this time a more violent version?
07:21 One can argue, and I would follow Rebecca on this.
07:27 We had a period after the financial crisis in which for too long, people were not seeing,
07:34 I mean, normal democratic parties, I'd say, delivering on improving their quality of life
07:39 and getting them into jobs again, etc.
07:42 Now what I would say we are seeing now, it's not an employment crisis at this stage, it's not a jobs crisis.
07:47 Ireland has full employment.
07:49 Basically in Europe, in general, we are close to full employment.
07:53 What we have is a huge cost of living crisis, housing crisis, I would agree.
07:58 And then citizens, even if employed, or even if they see their children getting employment after university,
08:04 suddenly they see that their kids, they are living worse than the previous generation.
08:12 And they are frustrated with this cost of living crisis.
08:15 And all of this, I would say, boils up to this situation.
08:18 Also, I would like to refer to what you just said.
08:21 You referred to telegram messages.
08:23 We saw it for the good, for instance, in the rise in the Maghreb countries a few years ago.
08:34 There was this movement, democratic movements, that could come from people connecting through the social media, etc.
08:40 But we have also seen a lot of hatred.
08:43 And we've seen that hatred, Lars, being spread online.
08:46 We've seen, in fact, these far-right riots were welcomed online by similar movements all across Europe.
08:53 And that's why we saw the violence as well in Lyon this week.
08:56 Well, I think these riots are disgusting, of course.
08:59 But I think looking at the big picture, you have to differentiate.
09:02 Our societies in Europe have been under pressure, have been strained for the last, say, 10 years maybe.
09:08 Financial crisis, COVID, war in Ukraine, Israel-Gaza, migration, housing inflation, etc.
09:14 People are very, very stressed.
09:16 And we have rising anti-Semitism in many societies in Europe.
09:21 And you have to look at the big picture.
09:23 I would say you have extremism from the right, from the left, but you also have imported extremism from Muslim people.
09:30 Not all of them, but from Muslim migrants coming to Europe.
09:34 And this needs to be addressed without it being a taboo.
09:37 And I think then you can get to -- you can find solutions to avoid situations like that.
09:42 Reaction to that, Rebecca?
09:43 I'd say it's important to differentiate between frustration and resentment at migrants
09:49 and not blaming migrants for the anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiments that arise.
09:55 The people coming in are not bringing prejudice with them.
09:58 They are encountering an environment that is already ready for that.
10:01 I would like to offer one area of possible hope, which is what we saw in Poland,
10:06 where voters decided they wanted to move away from the far right and the authoritarian
10:10 in favor of a party that was more pro-European, more pro-growth, and more pro-prosperity,
10:18 because that's going to be the way forward.
10:20 And Donald Tusk, in fact, the former head of the European Council, could potentially be the next prime minister of Poland,
10:26 something that's being cheered by those in favor of a progressive Europe.
10:30 But I have to go back, though, to the Dutch elections.
10:32 I mean, we have to update a little bit our viewers on the 22nd of November, what happened.
10:36 I mean, we did allude to it, but just want to give a few photos there to our viewers of the leader of the Party for Freedom,
10:42 Geert Vilders, who did very, very well, known, of course, for being anti-EU, anti-Islam, anti-migrants,
10:48 said that he wants to ban mosques in the past.
10:51 I mean, he did moderate slightly his tone, but the fact of the matter is he did get cheered on by some incumbent members,
10:58 prime ministers like Viktor Orban here, when that outcome came.
11:02 Was this a bit of a wake-up call, that outcome, Pedro?
11:06 Well, honestly, it's too soon to tell, because we have been saying to each other,
11:11 this is the time, this is the moment of the wake-up call.
11:14 Unfortunately, this has been going on and on.
11:17 Now we are facing so important elections now, next year, the European elections.
11:23 It will be a very decisive moment.
11:26 All this frustration, all this situation, will it come to a situation in which Vilders and others that really endanger the European values,
11:38 will they find, I would say, a significant seat at the table?
11:42 Will they be able to create majorities with these policies or not?
11:47 In the Socialist Party, are you looking in the mirror?
11:50 I mean, where are the socialists?
11:52 I mean, where are the mainstream politicians?
11:54 They have just not been reaching out and connecting with people.
11:56 That's a very good point, and we have to be humble and recognize that we have been losing seats at the table, at the Council.
12:02 And Martin Scandalous, look at Portugal, for example, as prime minister.
12:05 Yeah, I mean, a prime minister in my country, my prime minister resigned because there was an indication that he would be investigated.
12:11 He said clearly the difference there, and he said, "Rule of law means I cannot continue to be a prime minister if they even say that I will be investigated."
12:20 He's not accused of anything. I'm proud of that attitude.
12:23 We have had the contrary.
12:24 We have had politicians accused of corruption, convicted, that did nothing.
12:29 But let me say that, again, we have to stand for the European values.
12:33 We will do that from our European values.
12:35 But our politicians, Rebecca, in your --
12:36 Final point from my side.
12:37 Yeah.
12:38 Coalition with the far right, coalition with these values, coalition with these attacks to the migrants, that's certainly not the way to go.
12:45 That's not the way.
12:46 Coalition is really the question, and that will certainly determine what happens in the Netherlands.
12:49 It's not clear whether Wilders will find enough parties to be in coalition with him.
12:53 We've already seen that one of his key aides had to resign because of a corruption question.
12:59 It's not clear if they'll come toward the centre or if they'll stay out on the fringe, and then a minority government will form with what's left.
13:05 We will certainly keep a close eye on it.
13:07 I mean, it will be -- of course, there will be a lot at stake for Brussels.
13:10 But just take a look at some of the tweets that Geert Wilders has been putting out.
13:13 I mean, messages like "It's enough. The Netherlands can no longer cope. Border closes and zero asylum seekers."
13:20 Messages as well he's been putting out in the past like "Stop Islam. No to migrants."
13:25 Similar message, Lars, that we saw on that Telegram post last week when those riots started in Dublin.
13:30 Now, we're not saying that Geert Wilders is a violent man, is a dangerous man, but it's very dangerous, these kind of messages that politicians are putting out there.
13:38 Like your previous party, IFJ, which I know you've left.
13:43 Bring us behind the scenes of the party that you used to be a member of and the tone when it came to this political messaging.
13:49 Look, it is certainly a wake-up call.
13:52 And I would like to reiterate that if politicians don't listen to their electorate, there will be more Geert Wilders.
14:00 And the most interesting about these people is that they advocate for leaving NATO, leaving the European Union, zero migration whatsoever.
14:08 You need migration, but it needs to be controlled.
14:11 And our societies are under threat from third-party states, Russia, etc.
14:15 They are undermining, constantly undermining our values and our society.
14:19 So we have to now, it's time to go for it and we have to listen better to the people.
14:24 Otherwise there will be more parties like the party in the Netherlands, Geert Wilders' party, and other parties like in Germany, that will gain even more support.
14:33 And this is very, very, very dangerous.
14:35 And these parties, of course, have a spring in their step after that outcome in the Netherlands, even though, as Rebecca, you clearly pointed out, there is no guarantee that Geert Wilders will be the next Prime Minister of the Netherlands.
14:45 But I know there is a meeting taking place in Florence.
14:48 I mean, we're all reflecting here at Euronews how this could impact the elections next year.
14:53 Nobody has a crystal ball, but also the far left are doing quite well.
14:56 We're seeing people in Germany as well.
14:58 There's that lady, Sarah, doing very well, Wagenkrecht.
15:01 She's kind of mopping up a lot of the kind of anti-establishment voters as well.
15:06 Oh, yes, and she's probably posing a danger to German AFD.
15:11 And I think that she will probably gain some seats in the upcoming European election and even further election in Germany.
15:20 So our societies are under pressure from the left to the right, the extreme parts of the political spectrum.
15:28 And this needs to be addressed and taken serious.
15:31 And, Rebecca, you've been in this town for a long time.
15:33 You've been monitoring politicians.
15:35 We've heard this word wake up call after Brexit, wake up call after Donald Trump got into power, wake up call when there's an outcome like that in the Netherlands.
15:43 But are politicians here too comfortable?
15:46 There's a poll out today, Thursday, which is when we're taping this, from Europe elects showing that the far right, this ID alliance, may see big surges in the upcoming elections and that the traditional ECR conservatives will be kind of going along with them and that together it'll be 23 percent of the new parliament could be very right wing.
16:09 We see the Greens shrinking in this poll.
16:11 We see Renew, the market-friendly liberals, shrinking.
16:13 And then the establishment, the S&D and the EPP, holding more or less steady.
16:18 What this means is that there will be a center wanting to keep with business as usual, but that the pressure on the right to move rightward will very much increase.
16:26 And things could become very uncertain because it's not clear where they stand with regard to things like the Green agenda, migration.
16:34 I mean, we know where they are in migration, but not in terms of growth and businesses and what businesses want to see along those lines.
16:41 Very interesting.
16:42 Have you guys, has MEPs got any reaction to that?
16:44 I do have.
16:45 I do have.
16:46 And this is very interesting.
16:47 We have seen this trend in recent polls.
16:49 This is something that we have been watching.
16:52 I mean, I come from one of those families that have been the traditional European, pro-European families.
16:58 We are the second largest family.
17:00 And we are still sending this wake-up calls to the EPP.
17:05 There will be important decisions to be taken on the road to the European elections and after the European elections regarding maintaining this pro-European coalition,
17:15 which have normally ruled, I would say, this city and these institutions, or if the EPP will start also here in Brussels doing what they have been doing in Spain, in Sweden, in Italy.
17:29 I mean, the centre-right parties in Europe are already marrying and flirting with the far-right.
17:36 And that's the kind of choice I don't want to see done in European institutions.
17:40 And the European electorate will have to take that in account in the road to June 2024.
17:46 Will they vote for people that say clearly, no, no dancing, no flirting, no marrying the far-right?
17:52 Or will they abide to this new tendency in the centre-right in the EPP?
17:57 That's the question I have to put.
17:59 I think I would share your line in regards to it's very dangerous to liaise or get too close to left-wing extremist parties.
18:10 But I think, wasn't it in Portugal that your party, the Socialist Party, tried to tackle migration and engage with the right-wing extremist party?
18:19 What's the name of it?
18:21 No, that's certainly not the case in my country.
18:24 And to tackle migration, but...
18:27 No, not with Schengen. We don't talk to Schengen in my country.
18:30 That's the line we don't cross.
18:32 That would be very dangerous.
18:33 No, no, no, no, absolutely not.
18:34 But it is certainly a wake-up call.
18:36 And our political spectrum is changing.
18:39 I think this is something we have to take into account as politicians as well.
18:43 The traditional way of voting has changed, not only in Germany, in many European countries.
18:48 And therefore the mainstream or the traditional political spectrum is disassembling.
18:54 And I think this is something all the parties, democratic parties, have to take into account to tackle these problems.
18:59 It's interesting because even in your party, I guess you have so many different flavours of conservatism and right-wingism.
19:07 I mean, there must be many cases when you don't agree either on your political messaging.
19:11 You mean in the group, in our political group?
19:12 Yes.
19:13 Oh, I think this is quite normal.
19:14 I think this applies to all of the political groups, socialist, CPP, Renew, etc.,
19:19 that the national delegations have sometimes different approaches to various fields in politics.
19:25 I think this is quite normal.
19:27 But altogether, we are conservatives.
19:30 ECR is conservative.
19:31 My party, Bundesdeutsche, is conservative.
19:33 And we take these activities very, very seriously.
19:37 Okay.
19:38 I will stop you there because we're out of time.
19:41 But of course, we will come back to those topics as we get closer as well to those elections.
19:45 But stay with us because after the break, we'll be looking at how climate fatigue could see Europe backtrack on some of its green ambitions.
19:52 See you soon.
19:53 Welcome back to Brussels, my love.
20:03 I'm Maeve McMahan.
20:04 And along with our panel, we're dissecting some of the stories in the news this week.
20:09 The first that we're picking up on is this sense of climate fatigue we're sensing around EU member states
20:14 and business regarding the EU Green Deal.
20:16 And that's just as COP28 got underway in Dubai.
20:20 Here in Belgium, for example, the Prime Minister, Alexander de Kroo,
20:23 keeps repeating that by "overburdening people with rules and regulations, we risk losing public support for the Green Agenda."
20:31 So obviously, the stakes are very high here.
20:34 What is your take on this?
20:36 Rebecca, we start with you.
20:37 People want to go green as long as they can do it without losing too much money.
20:42 So to succeed, the Green Agenda is going to have to focus on growth.
20:46 We hear the phrase "green growth" so much that it's lost its meaning.
20:50 However, we need to find, as policy people, a way to make it make economic sense for people to make the changes.
20:57 What about yourself, Lars?
20:58 Yes, that's quite right, what Rebecca said.
21:01 I think, and what the Prime Minister of Belgium said, it's very dangerous to overburden people.
21:06 It should be possible for people to afford these green initiatives.
21:15 And if they can't afford it, if it's too expensive, too costly, they will be tired of it and they will oppose it.
21:21 So I think this is a good approach to take these people very seriously.
21:26 Was the Brussels approach perhaps too bossy?
21:28 Should they have been more gradual, more honest?
21:31 I honestly don't think we have an alternative to go, this idea to drag our feet.
21:38 I'm not even saying climate denial is the majority here, but there's a bunch of people in this city now going to this climate dragging approach.
21:47 And that's not a choice we can make.
21:49 I mean, every summer we have seen it in countries like mine, but also here in the center of Europe.
21:53 I mean, there is devastation around us because of the climate emergency.
21:57 So I don't think we can, I would say, put the brakes on.
22:01 No, we still have to maintain this rhythm.
22:03 But as everybody has said, we have to cope with the transition.
22:08 We cannot leave anybody behind.
22:10 Social climate fund, just transition fund needs more attention.
22:13 Let's just bring in the perspective, of course, from Antonio Guterres.
22:16 He's the head of the UN, the Secretary General.
22:18 And he's been very clear for months.
22:20 He's been calling on governments to, quote, wake up and step up.
22:23 That we're hurling towards disaster, eyes wide open, with too many people betting on wishful thinking.
22:30 But, of course, we've seen how political these legislative files have been,
22:34 especially when it comes to the nature restoration law or the surprise rejection last week in the Strasbourg on the regulation of pesticides.
22:41 Six thousand scientists had written a petition this year saying we need that.
22:46 And then on glyphosate as well, Rebecca, the European Commission taking the size of the agro industry too.
22:51 Was it just too much? Did they just over sell their idea a few years ago when they presented it?
22:55 There's a lot of registration from legacy industries that they're not going to be able to keep up.
23:00 And those are the same people who employ voters in rural areas and the more conservative voters.
23:06 And people are trying to be respectful of that in terms of people's needs and things like that.
23:11 So in terms of pushing back against these pesticides, these other things,
23:15 there isn't an alternative for helping those industries move more quickly into the green era.
23:21 What about your political group? I mean, what's the mood in there? Do you have any climate deniers, for example?
23:26 No, I wouldn't have any climate deniers. Of course, there's climate deniers in various political groups.
23:31 People who see are very skeptical, but I think I don't know of anybody.
23:36 But I think it's very important to address this issue. Climate policy is very, very it's a crucial political field.
23:42 But I think it's a high price if we think as Europeans, we can change climate by ourselves.
23:48 It's not possible. And therefore, I think COP 28 and convincing states like the People's Republic of China,
23:54 big polluters to follow suit, I think that is something we have to take into account even more seriously than we have done so far.
24:04 So Europe then needs to lead by example. By example, yes.
24:08 Which we have been doing. Which we have been doing, by the way.
24:12 That is debatable. Let's bring in the EU Green Deal climate chief. That is, of course, the Dutchman, Rupke Hugstra.
24:18 He's the man who's in Dubai this weekend on behalf of the European Union or the European Commission.
24:23 And Euronews asked him if he felt there was a bit of a mood of climate fatigue among people who are telling us constantly on Euronews
24:29 that they're worried more about day to day issues like their health, housing and paying for their groceries.
24:34 Look, in my view, we truly need to do two things. One is continue with our ambition, not because any one of us wants it to
24:43 or because I say that we have to, but simply because it is the reality and climate change is at everyone's doorstep.
24:50 Having said that, we need to bridge that with making sure there is a perspective for our citizens.
24:56 There is a perspective for our companies, even if jobs might be different than they are today or used to be in the past.
25:02 That is the obligation of us politicians, making sure we deal with this tremendous problem and at the same time,
25:08 make sure everyone together can make it through this crisis.
25:12 Rupke Hugstra there with a rather wishy-washy answer, no, Pedro Marques?
25:16 Well, what he said, I mean, I can follow this, I mean, which is maintain our speed, maintain our road, but help the citizens, help the industries.
25:26 I'm fine with that. It's clearly different from what EPP, where it comes from, has been saying.
25:31 They have been trying to drag their feet now or trying to slow down the transition.
25:36 That we cannot do. But indeed, I mean, implementing the carbon border adjustment mechanism
25:42 so that we are not going green in Europe and importing brown, that doesn't make sense.
25:47 Implementing all that we have now achieved, by the way, the social climate fund for me, it's absolutely a key element.
25:55 And it will be after 2024. This idea that we will help the citizens and the SMEs on the transition, I think it's a key for the next election.
26:03 Manfred Weber, the head of the European People's Party, has been coined as the man to kill the EU Green Deal.
26:08 I mean, is that a bit strong or would you agree with that, Rebecca?
26:11 It shows that the parliament, which has historically been more green than other parts of the political system, can no longer be counted on for that perspective.
26:20 I wouldn't say there's climate fatigue so much as there's climate worry.
26:24 I mean, I think the EU would like to save the planet, but not if it comes at the expense of their own job.
26:29 What about your voters? Who do they care more about?
26:31 Well, I think let's take the SUR regulation, the sustainable use regulation, very important to ban pesticides, but it needs to be more pragmatic.
26:39 You can't overburden farmers and people who grow wine and endanger their livelihood with such a regulation.
26:50 It needs to be more practical and it needs to be more pragmatic and then people support climate change regulations.
26:56 That's what your voters tell you?
26:57 That is what my voters tell me, yes.
26:59 And yours?
27:00 No, I mean, our voters are still telling us clearly, let's continue this fight.
27:04 We have just done it, by the way. We had a very important success on the nature restoration law and the trial laws.
27:09 We achieved the result there. On the industrial emission directive, we achieved the result there.
27:13 So we are, we are, we keep on this fight. But again, as I said, my voters also say, look, take care of our jobs, take care of our livelihood,
27:21 because yes, for instance, in some countries, this will mean millions of euros to change the...
27:26 As we said, a lot at stake and we will dive more into that topic next week.
27:29 We'll have a full special on the EU's negotiating cards and plans over in Dubai at COP28.
27:35 But for now, thank you so much to our panellists for being with us and thank you for watching. See you soon.
27:39 [Music]
27:47 Welcome back to Brussels, my love, Euronews' weekend show. I'm Maeve McMahon.
27:52 Now, I have a question for you.
27:55 Have you seen this image that has popped up on billboards and newspapers all across the continent?
28:01 From Malta to Lithuania to Italy to Spain and even in Catalonia, where it can be read in Catalan.
28:07 It reads freedom, peace and energy independence. Have you seen the campaign, Rebecca?
28:13 I have not. Have you?
28:15 I have, I have actually in the public transportation exactly as it was there, the image.
28:20 And I find it interesting. I'm totally positive on this kind of campaigning.
28:25 As we discussed in the previous part of the programme, there's too much hatred against democracy, against the European institutions.
28:31 I'm totally fine with it. I think we'll see more from now to the European elections.
28:35 And it was clear to you, it was a hate. And your reaction to the campaign? Have you seen it?
28:39 I've seen it in Germany, yes.
28:40 In Germany?
28:41 Yes, and since bus stations and train stations. I find it a little bit meaningless.
28:47 On the whole, I think it's important for the EU to communicate. This is very, very important.
28:51 But I think in regards to the bidding process, there are questions. It's rather intransparent.
28:57 It's rather intransparent. Any comment?
29:01 The EU needs to get the word out. A campaign like this probably can't hurt, might help.
29:06 The question really is, do people see Europe making a difference for them?
29:10 That is the question. Well, look, we wanted to find out what was the thinking and the cost behind this campaign.
29:16 So we checked in, of course, with the European Commission to find out.
29:19 They didn't really want to speak on camera. They were very shy.
29:22 But after a lot of chasing, a spokesman did send us a written statement to say that the idea behind the campaign was to raise people's awareness
29:29 that accelerating the green transition is good for fundamental EU principles like democracy, peace, human rights.
29:36 They told us as well that the billboards and posters are in 3,100 cities, 850 newspapers, and the budget was 35.6 million euros.
29:46 Not too much money?
29:48 It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money.
29:50 And that comes on top of an initiative to double the overall communication budget of the European Commission from 30 to 60 million euros.
30:03 And I think, therefore, it really needs to be more transparent, the bidding process, plus it needs to be more meaningful.
30:10 And to relate to people, Rebecca, I mean, should they put Ursula von der Leyen's face perhaps on that image?
30:14 Well, the nice thing about a campaign like this is it's got a clear deliverable.
30:18 You've got signs, they're spread out throughout Europe, they're not tied to a specific politician or a specific political agenda.
30:24 It's a way of getting a broad message out there.
30:26 If, for example, you had some extra money left in your budget and you wanted to make an impact in a hurry, this is a pretty fair way to do that.
30:33 And it's got people talking. I mean, that's one thing.
30:36 It might look like a significant amount of money, but we know that billions were spent in the U.S. elections by the Russian propaganda,
30:45 and even here in Europe against elections in our countries.
30:48 We know that this actually happened. And this is happening in the social media.
30:52 That's too much money propagating hatred and the attack on institutions.
30:56 So I do think we need to really tell the citizens, remind them, we delivered as Europe when COVID came.
31:04 We are delivering on the Green Deal. The citizens have to have this perception.
31:07 So I'm totally fine with this kind of wording.
31:10 And that was clear by those words?
31:12 True. But does the money need to come from funds that support agriculture initiatives, migration policy or Erasmus?
31:23 I think this is ridiculous. So it is very important to make it more transparent.
31:29 Where does the money come from? How is it financed? And how was the bidding process?
31:33 And how was the bidding process? Well, we'll have more details on, of course, the Euronews website so people can find out more about that.
31:39 But for now, I'm afraid we're almost running out of time.
31:42 But if you do have any comments on that billboard campaign, if you've seen it in your local city or in your local newspaper,
31:49 do reach out and let us know what you feel about it and how it made you feel.
31:53 And if you have any other comments, of course, on any other of our topics that we talked about today with our three guests, do also reach out.
31:59 Our email address is brusselsmylove@euronews.com.
32:02 And don't forget, next week, we will have a special show, as promised, on COP28 and the EU's role there.
32:08 But for now, I'd like to say a big thank you to Pedro Marques, Portuguese MEP from The Socialist,
32:13 Rebecca Christie from Breaking Views and Brügel, and also to Lars Petersberg, German MEP from the European Conservatives and Reformists.
32:21 Great to have you with us, all three. Thank you so much.
32:23 Thank you.
32:24 And thank you so much for watching. See you soon.
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