~~~~~
Video Information: An interview with Kip Andersen on Veganism, 29.03.2017, Advait Bodhsthal, Noida, India
Context:
~ What are various view of religions?
~ What is veganism?
~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk?
~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals?
~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world?
~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
Video Information: An interview with Kip Andersen on Veganism, 29.03.2017, Advait Bodhsthal, Noida, India
Context:
~ What are various view of religions?
~ What is veganism?
~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk?
~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals?
~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world?
~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00 Can we discuss how religion and animals come to play and things that you like to talk about
00:10 with how animals are treated and you know things that you like to share with people
00:16 when you talk about animals and say religion and things with them.
00:23 Can you share things?
00:26 When you say religions, just for the sake of the conversation, I would want to divide
00:43 them into two streams.
00:45 One the Abrahamic stream and the other, the Indian one.
00:55 So the Judeo-Christian view is that God has dominion over man and man has dominion over
01:10 animals.
01:16 Something similar also comes up in the third Abrahamic religion, Islam, which talks about
01:26 Allah having created all the animals, fish, insects for the sake of man.
01:39 And then there is the view of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, which talk of ahimsa, ekat,
02:00 which is non-violence, oneness.
02:10 But I'm not really convinced that when we use the word religion, we must really talk
02:24 of the view that organized religions take of this matter.
02:39 The moment religion is organized, it becomes something man-made.
02:50 So I'll take your question to mean that we want to talk about religion, religion as such.
03:04 Man-animals, man's inner world and man's relationship with the so-called outer world, including
03:13 animals.
03:19 So there is man and man lives according to himself in this so-called universe, this universe
03:29 that appears to him through his senses.
03:34 There is no other way man perceives the universe.
03:37 He perceives it through his senses and he interprets it through his reason, through
03:45 his intellect and through his knowledge and memory.
03:54 Now, how does man relate with the world?
04:04 How does man know what to do, how to approach, how to touch, how to live, how to eat, how
04:17 to talk, how to connect?
04:21 That to me is the essence of religion.
04:27 Man's relationship with himself and the world.
04:32 That is religion and that is also the essence of all organized religions.
04:40 Hence I find it more beneficial to talk about religion itself than the various organized
04:46 religions.
04:47 I have named just six in the course of this talk.
04:53 But as you of course know, there are hundreds of them.
04:59 And it would be more useful to directly go into the one rather than the hundreds and
05:07 get lost in the maze.
05:09 That's not very useful.
05:14 So man's relationship with the universe.
05:18 See, how do I look at anything, anybody depends on how do I look at myself.
05:38 If there is a pool of water and I am playful, then the pool of water is hurt for me.
05:50 If there is a pool of water and I have a phobia of water, then the pool of water is danger
06:04 for me.
06:05 If there is a pool of water and I am thirsty, then the pool of water is physical sustenance
06:17 and survival for me.
06:20 So depending on who I am and depending on what my concept is, self-concept and self-worth,
06:31 I take a view of the world.
06:37 If I am someone who is always feeling incomplete within himself, if I am someone who exists
06:50 in order to take something, snatch something, extract something from the universe in order
07:00 to fulfil himself, then my view of the universe will be very utilitarian, rather exploitative.
07:13 So there is that little squirrel there, even as we talk she is there with her tail up.
07:17 How do I look at her?
07:18 How do I look at her?
07:19 I could look at her as food, if hunger is what I most identify with.
07:33 I could look at her as a companion.
07:38 Whatever is the form she takes for me is very very intimately related to the form that I
07:48 have assigned to myself.
07:49 The squirrel will disappear in a while and she has indeed disappeared.
07:56 She is no more there.
07:58 She is all with herself somewhere.
08:03 The squirrel will disappear but that which I carry as myself will not.
08:11 I will carry it.
08:12 I will keep carrying it.
08:16 If I am feeling incomplete, that incompletion will remain irrespective of the temporal presence
08:24 and disappearance of anything outside of me.
08:32 If I always feel hollow and hungry, then everything in the universe is but a resource for me.
08:43 I will want to exploit the man, the woman, the tree, the rock, the child, the animal,
08:51 just everything.
08:52 The extent to which I can exploit would depend on my power.
09:04 And because to me this exploitation is itself a very important value in life, so I value
09:23 myself according to my ability to exploit.
09:27 The more I can exploit, consume, plunder and hoard, the more I take myself to be.
09:40 I am bigger if I can exploit more.
09:47 I am higher, I am more worthy, more respectable if I can draw more from the universe.
09:55 If everything that I have collected as resources, as usables are bigger, more numerous, more
10:17 in utility.
10:18 If that is how I value myself and I respect myself, then outside of me also I will have
10:25 value only for that which can exploit.
10:29 Now to exploit, as a human being you require the intellect.
10:38 Animals outside of me do not have that, at least not in the same way as human beings
10:45 have.
10:46 Their consciousness does not proceed on the same basis of rationale as a human being does.
10:56 Their capacity to exploit is far more limited, even assuming that they might have an intention
11:05 to exploit, which as per me really either does not exist or is extremely limited.
11:15 So if I value myself according to my capacity to exploit, I will not value the one outside
11:21 me who cannot exploit, who does not have the intellect or the intention to exploit.
11:27 So there will be very little respect for the chirping bird.
11:31 For I can respect her only if she has power, because I respect myself only when I have
11:39 power, some kind of power, power of knowledge, power of wealth, power political, power social,
11:48 any kind of power.
11:49 The bird outside of me appears to have so little power, so it is laughable.
11:58 I can go pick her up, do whatever I want to do with her.
12:10 Now this is how man relates with animals.
12:16 When man is saying that everything that limits him is valuable.
12:32 We are on the issue of religion.
12:36 So we have to go into that which we call as an immensity as God.
12:45 Now man is proud of his intellect, all exploitation proceeds on that.
12:50 And in fact, one of the reasons why animals are taken as fit for exploitation is that
12:59 they really are not rational beings.
13:05 So it is said that we can do as we want to do with them because they are lesser beings.
13:16 Having an intellect, does it really make man superior to animals?
13:25 Yes, of course, the dog cannot read.
13:28 Yes, of course, the dog cannot comprehend our books and our knowledge.
13:36 But if all reading and all knowledge is for the sake of peace, is for the sake of a great
13:51 cause, then please tell me whether man's intellect and knowledge are indeed able to deliver the
14:02 goods.
14:03 Knowledge is limited, intellect is limited, knowledge always consists of objects and every
14:09 object has a boundary.
14:13 If the purpose of life and if the purpose of religion, because we are on the issue of
14:18 religion and if the purpose of religion is to be one with God, then the purpose of religion
14:28 is to drop all that which is limited because God is unlimited.
14:34 As long as you identify with that which is limited, there is no question of unity with
14:41 God.
14:45 Intellect is limited and intellect prevents man from closeness with God.
14:52 You cannot intellectualize your way to silence.
14:56 I want to now ask, what is closer to goodness and godliness, man's intellect or the simple
15:09 innocence of animals?
15:10 Now we have come to a point where we can also look more sharply at the view that man is
15:21 superior to animals and that man has dominion over animals.
15:27 I have repeatedly said this and would repeat once again, is man really superior to animals?
15:39 If God stands for innocence, then animals are closer to God.
15:47 If God stands for a simple surrender to the flow of life, then animals are closer to God.
15:56 If God stands for a basic ability to trust, then animals are closer to God.
16:10 If God stands for a relation that is deeper than verbal communication, a heartfelt communion,
16:24 then again animals are closer to God compared to man.
16:30 But man will live in his self-centered consciousness.
16:33 Man will say that my greatest asset is my intellect because it helps me do a lot of
16:42 things with the world.
16:45 And if man's greatest asset is his intellect, then man will always look at animals as not
16:55 only inferior but also just things to be had.
17:03 And he will look at not only animals that way, he will look at everything that way.
17:08 If you are a man, you will exploit a woman, you will exploit a river, you will exploit
17:12 everything that you come across.
17:14 If it were in your power, you would go and exploit the entire galaxy.
17:21 What do you say to people who say that it's similar to take a plant and eat a plant and
17:43 it's the same to eat an animal because a plant has a soul, a plant has spirit and an animal
17:47 does.
17:48 What do you feel about that?
17:49 There's no difference.
17:50 You see, two or three things must be understood.
18:00 Firstly, a non-violent mind, a mind that does not like destruction, will not want to kill
18:14 a plant either.
18:17 We talked about intellect.
18:30 Man's basic violence starts from agriculture itself, organized agriculture itself.
18:37 When man started utilizing and exploiting plants, it is one thing to be one with a plant,
18:46 to be a part of its ecosystem and take something from it.
18:53 And it is a totally different thing to cultivate a plant.
18:59 The way a squirrel or a monkey connects to a plant or a tree is very different from the
19:08 way a farmer connects to his crop.
19:15 So someone who does not want to look at the universe as a resource will not want to kill
19:28 or consume anything.
19:32 And when I say consume, I mean consume in a violent way.
19:40 There is enough that a tree offers.
19:47 There is enough that comes to us from plants and trees, even if we do not kill them.
20:00 In fact, if you see when a fruit drops from a tree, the tree in some way wants that the
20:12 fruit be consumed.
20:13 When you pick up the fruit, when you consume it, the seeds actually get spread through
20:22 you.
20:25 You are being one with the plant, you are actually fulfilling the tree's wish.
20:33 If you do not pick up the fruit and eat, then it's not a favor to the tree, then it is indifference.
20:42 The moment I say this, the question of feeding the 8 billion people of the world immediately
20:53 crops up and hence this view will appear as impractical.
20:58 This appears as impractical only if first of all you are centered around the view that
21:10 the earth must have 8 billion people, 8 billion human beings.
21:21 These 8 billion human beings exist only because they have taken a path that is not really
21:36 the path of the heart.
21:41 Otherwise nature knows what is the right number, the right gap on the existence of
21:56 any species.
22:01 Because man can exist even without harming trees and plants, let alone animals.
22:17 It is possible, but that will be a totally different kind of humanity.
22:20 And I am pretty sure that when man lives that way, then to sustain 8 billion people in that
22:32 way will not be possible.
22:39 You may immediately retort that this way is then very very difficult.
22:47 I would say it is very valuable.
22:51 It is very valuable because as far as life is concerned, it is not the numbers that count.
22:58 Something else is far more important than numbers.
23:03 That particular silence in being, that particular love in relationships, that particular peace,
23:15 that particular harmony.
23:19 Be it a plant, be it an animal, be it a human being, the exploitative mind is the same.
23:29 [Music]