Video Information: An interview with Kip Andersen on Veganism, 29.03.2017, Advait Bodhsthal, Noida, India
Context:
~ What are various view of religions?
~ What is veganism?
~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk?
~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals?
~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world?
~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
#acharyaprashant
Context:
~ What are various view of religions?
~ What is veganism?
~ Why should one stop consuming eggs and milk?
~ Why do human cause cruelty and extreme harm to animals?
~ Why non-vegetarianism is prevalent throughout the world?
~ Why should one head towards a vegan lifestyle?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~
#acharyaprashant
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Can we discuss how religion and animals come to play and things that you like to talk about
00:11with how animals are treated and things that you like to share with people when you talk
00:17about animals and say religion and things with Hindus. Can you share things?
00:29When you say religions, just for the sake of the conversation, I would want to divide
00:43them into two streams, one the Abrahamic stream and the other, the Indian one. So the
00:56Judeo-Christian view is that God has dominion over man and man has dominion over animals.
01:14Something similar also comes up in the third Abrahamic religion, Islam, which talks about
01:25Allah having created all the animals, fish, insects for the sake of man. And then there
01:39is the view of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, which talk of ahimsa, ekat, which
02:00is non-violence, oneness. But I'm not really convinced that when we use the word religion,
02:22we must really talk of the view that organized religions take of this matter. The moment
02:40religion is organized, it becomes something man-made. So I take your question to mean
02:53that we want to talk about religion, religion as such. Man, animals, man's inner world and
03:08man's relationship with the so-called outer world, including animals. So there is man
03:21and man lives according to himself in this so-called universe, this universe that appears
03:31to him through his senses. There is no other way man perceives the universe. He perceives
03:38it through his senses and he interprets it through his reason, through his intellect
03:48and through his knowledge and memory. Now, how does man relate with the world? How does
04:05man know what to do, how to approach, how to touch, how to live, how to eat, how to
04:18talk, how to connect? That to me is the essence of religion. Man's relationship with himself
04:29and the world. That is religion and that is also the essence of all organized religions.
04:39Hence, I find it more beneficial to talk about religion itself than the various organized
04:47religions. I have named just six in the course of this talk. But as you of course know, there
04:56are hundreds of them and it would be more useful to directly go into the one rather
05:05than the hundreds and get lost in the maze. That's not very useful. So, man's relationship
05:16with the universe. See, how do I look at anything, anybody? Depends on how do I look
05:32at myself. If there is a pool of water and I am playful, then the pool of water is hope
05:48for me. If there is a pool of water and I have a phobia of water, then the pool of water
06:03is danger for me. If there is a pool of water and I am thirsty, then the pool of water is
06:14physical sustenance and survival for me. So, depending on who I am and depending on
06:26what my concept is, self-concept and self-worth, I take a view of the world. Now, if I am someone
06:38who is always feeling incomplete within himself, if I am someone who exists in order to take
06:53something, snatch something, extract something from the universe in order to fulfill himself,
07:02then my view of the universe will be very utilitarian, rather exploitative. So, there is that
07:13little squirrel there. Even as we talk, she is there with her tail up. How do I look at her?
07:22I could look at her as food if hunger is what I most identify with. I could look at her as a
07:34companion. Whatever is the form she takes for me is very, very intimately related to the form
07:48that I have assigned to myself. The squirrel will disappear in a while and she has indeed
07:54disappeared. She is no more there. She is all with herself somewhere. The squirrel will disappear,
08:04but that which I carry as myself will not. I will carry it. I will keep carrying it.
08:15If I am feeling incomplete, that incompletion will remain irrespective of the temporal presence
08:24and disappearance of anything outside of me. If I always feel hollow and hungry, then everything
08:37in the universe is but a resource for me. I will want to exploit the man, the woman, the tree,
08:47the rock, the child, the animal, just everything. The extent to which I can exploit would depend
08:57on my power. And because to me this exploitation is itself a very important value in life,
09:14so I value myself according to my ability to exploit. The more I can exploit, consume,
09:31plunder and hoard, the more I take myself to be. I am bigger if I can exploit more.
09:46I am higher, I am more worthy, more respectable if I can draw more from the universe.
09:52If everything that I have collected as resources, as usables, are bigger, more numerous,
10:09more in utility. If that is how I value myself and I respect myself, then outside of me also
10:24I will have value only for that which can exploit. Now to exploit, as a human being
10:34you require the intellect. Animals outside of me do not have that, at least not in the same way
10:44as human beings have. Their consciousness does not proceed on the same basis of rationale
10:54as a human being's does. Their capacity to exploit is far more limited, even assuming
11:03that they might have an intention to exploit, which as per me really either does not exist
11:11or is extremely limited. So if I value myself according to my capacity to exploit, I will
11:20not value the one outside me who cannot exploit, who does not have the intellect or the intention
11:26to exploit. So there will be very little respect for the chirping bird. For I can respect her
11:33only if she has power. Because I respect myself only when I have power. Some kind of power,
11:42power of knowledge, power of wealth, power political, power social, any kind of power.
11:49The bird outside of me appears to have so little power. So it is laughable. I can go,
11:59pick her up, do whatever I want to do with her. This is how man relates with animals.
12:14Then man is saying that everything that limits him is valuable. We are on the issue of religion.
12:34So we have to go into that which we call as an immensity as God. Now man is proud of
12:46his intellect. All exploitation proceeds on that. And in fact, one of the reasons why
12:54animals are taken as fit for exploitation is that they really are not rational beings.
13:04So it is said that we can do as we want to do with them because they are lesser beings.
13:15Having an intellect, does it really make man superior to animals? Yes, of course, the dog cannot read.
13:28Yes, of course, the dog cannot comprehend our books and our knowledge. But if all reading
13:38and all knowledge is for the sake of peace, is for the sake of a great silence, then please tell me
13:54whether man's intellect and knowledge are indeed able to deliver the goods.
14:03Knowledge is limited, intellect is limited, knowledge always consists of objects and every object has a boundary.
14:11If the purpose of life and if the purpose of religion, because we are on the issue of religion,
14:19and if the purpose of religion is to be one with God, then the purpose of religion is to drop all that
14:30which is limited because God is unlimited. As long as you identify with that which is limited,
14:38there is no question of unity with God. Intellect is limited and intellect prevents man from closeness with God.
14:52You cannot intellectualize your way to silence. I want to now ask, what is closer to goodness and godliness,
15:07man's intellect or the simple innocence of animals? Now we have come to a point where we can also
15:16look more sharply at the view that man is superior to animals and that man has dominion over animals.
15:25I have repeatedly said this and would repeat once again, is man really superior to animals?
15:39If God stands for innocence, then animals are closer to God. If God stands for a simple surrender to the flow of life,
15:52then animals are closer to God. If God stands for a basic ability to trust, then animals are closer to God.
16:09If God stands for a relation that is deeper than verbal communication, a heartfelt communion,
16:23then again animals are closer to God compared to man. But man will live in his self-centered consciousness.
16:34Man will say that my greatest asset is my intellect because it helps me do a lot of things with the world.
16:44And if man's greatest asset is his intellect, then man will always look at animals as not only inferior,
16:58but also just things to be had. And he will look at not only animals that way, he will look at everything that way.
17:07If you are a man, you will exploit a woman, you will exploit a river, you will exploit everything that you come across.
17:14If it were in your power, you would go and exploit the entire galaxy.
17:28So, actually real quick to wipe off the dry food.
17:34What do you say to people who say that it's similar to take a plant and eat a plant and it's the same to eat an animal
17:44because a plant has a soul, a plant has spirit and an animal doesn't. What do you feel about that? There's no difference.
17:53You see, two or three things must be understood.
17:59Firstly, a non-violent mind, a mind that does not like destruction, will not want to kill a plant either.
18:17We talked about intellect. Man's basic violence starts from agriculture itself, organized agriculture itself.
18:35When man started utilizing and exploiting plants, it is one thing to be one with a plant, to be a part of its ecosystem
18:48and take something from it. And it is a totally different thing to cultivate a plant.
18:58The way a squirrel or a monkey connects to a plant or a tree is very different from the way a farmer connects to his crop.
19:12So, someone who does not want to look at the universe as a resource will not want to kill or consume anything.
19:32And when I say consume, I mean consume in a violent way.
19:42There is enough that a tree offers. There is enough that comes to us from plants and trees even if we do not kill them.
19:56In fact, if you see, when a fruit drops from a tree, the tree in some way wants that the fruit be consumed.
20:14When you pick up the fruit, when you consume it, the seeds actually get spread through you.
20:24You are being one with the plant, you are actually fulfilling the tree's wish.
20:32If you do not pick up the fruit and eat, then it is not a favor to the tree, then it is indifference.
20:43The moment I say this, the question of feeding the 8 billion people of the world immediately crops up.
20:54And hence this view will appear as impractical.
20:58This appears as impractical only if, first of all, you are centered around the view that the earth must have 8 billion people, 8 billion human beings.
21:19These 8 billion human beings exist only because they have taken a path that is not really the path of the heart.
21:37Otherwise, nature knows what is the right number, the right cap on the existence of any species.
21:57This man can exist even without harming trees and plants, let alone animals.
22:13It is possible, but that will be a totally different kind of humanity.
22:21And I am pretty sure that when man lives that way, then to sustain 8 billion people in that way will not be possible.
22:39You may immediately retort that this way is then very very difficult.
22:47I would say it is very valuable.
22:50It is very valuable because as far as life is concerned, it is not the numbers that count.
22:57Something else is far more important than numbers.
23:01That particular silence in being, that particular love in relationships, that particular peace.
23:21Be it a plant, be it an animal, be it a human being, the exploitative mind is the same.
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