Migration pact could be 'disastrous' for EU: Morawiecki
Poland's former prime minister says the EU's new migration pact is not legally enforceable and would be a disaster for the bloc. Speaking to DW, Mateusz Morawiecki also suggests his country should take the matter to court to prove Warsaw cannot be forced to accept relocated asylum-seekers.
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00:00 We are now here with Mr. Morawiecki to discuss a new push that you, your party,
00:08 Law and Justice Party, is making together with other parties in the
00:13 European Union to oppose the new migration and asylum pact. So what are you
00:18 doing together with your allies on this issue?
00:21 Exactly. Let me remind you of the situation from 2015 when Willkommenskultur
00:27 created all this huge wave flood of illegal migrants. Back then the migration
00:35 pact or the previous migration pact was also adopted but the strong
00:41 opposition to this migration pact led to conclusions in 2018 and 2019 that all
00:48 the changes to the migration policy have to be unanimous. And Polish
00:56 government today has also tools to use what I was fighting for successfully
01:01 together with Prime Minister Babis and Prime Minister Orban back then and we
01:05 have agreed that any changes to the migration pact have to be dealt with on
01:11 a unanimous basis. And this is first procedural issue but even more important
01:19 is that I believe that migration pact as it was now adopted can be disastrous for
01:27 the European Union because it can be like an invitation for tens of millions
01:32 of people from the Middle East. Right now we have war in the Middle East and from
01:37 Africa invitation to Europe, come to Europe and invitation for smugglers and
01:43 traffickers to use this pact as a tool to invite people to Europe.
01:48 Of course the the supporters of the pact say just the opposite that tightened
01:52 measures on the border will in fact let fewer people into Europe and will reject
01:57 them on the border send them back possibly to third countries even before
02:01 ever getting into the European Union. In fact Donald Tusk the the current head of
02:07 government and most Polish MEPs also voted against this pact but I understand
02:14 that you're saying you don't actually believe the current government will
02:18 reject these measures when it comes time to it. Well exactly the pact is not only
02:24 about distribution of illegal relocation of illegal migrants but also paying for
02:30 those illegal migrants by those countries which are not agreeing with
02:36 accepting illegal migration and Poland at the same time is under huge pressure
02:42 from Lukashenko regime who artificially takes migrants from the Middle East
02:47 weaponizes them and pushes them or tries to push them through our border. He's not
02:52 successful by and large because we have built this physical barrier on our
02:57 Polish Belarusian border but back to your question of course the the pact is
03:03 a kind of invitation for smugglers and this is why we are strongly opposing
03:08 this. The borders external borders have to be tight as our border eastern border
03:13 is tight. But you don't believe that the new measures will in fact tighten up the
03:18 border and keep unqualified asylum seekers out you don't believe this and
03:22 and you didn't answer my question about Prime Minister Tusk. Not only I don't
03:26 believe that this will lead to tightening the illegal migration but as
03:31 I said if you create a pact through which distribution of illegal migration
03:37 is possible you invite people from outside to knock to the European doors
03:41 that's the answer to your latter question and the previous one about Mr.
03:46 Tusk of course Mr. when Mr. Tusk was head of the European Council he was not
03:52 only in favor of the migration pact but he was blackmailing us my government
03:57 back then while I was Prime Minister a year ago two years a couple of years ago
04:02 he was blackmailing us threatening with consequences and fines if we do not
04:08 agree with the migration pact as it was adopted back then. This is why I now kind
04:15 of warning the European Council and the European Commission that this this is
04:21 the wrong way which they are now going through. In fact that ended up falling
04:24 apart I mean that whole deal never actually was implemented as it was
04:28 designed. Because of our opposition and as I said look into the conclusions of
04:33 the European Council 2018-2019 and this was a very basic agreement that no
04:41 illegal migration can be pushed to any country any member state of the European
04:46 Union without the consent of this member state. And what do you want done about it?
04:51 I understand you think that a lawsuit in Luxembourg may be the answer to to
04:56 proving your point that you believe this is not legal. This is one route and the
05:01 other route is political. In Poland more and more people realize that that what
05:07 the current government is saying with Mr. Tusk at the helm is not true. They have
05:14 given this government a yellow card. The last local elections were won by my
05:20 party by far, meet up stand for the German listeners. We have won with the
05:28 record result over the last 30 years which is clearly a warning to this
05:34 government that they are not doing what Polish society Polish nation wants them
05:42 to do. One final question that came up in in this press conference you gave this
05:46 morning and that was on the Pegasus spyware. I understand that local Polish
05:50 media is reporting that now instead of 31 people which were previously
05:54 identified as possibly being targeted by the spyware used during your time in
05:59 office that now there are hundreds of people who may have been identified as
06:03 victims of this. What do you say to that and what I mean do you do you support
06:08 this probe into how the spyware was used? I support it because because my
06:13 political opponents make a mockery out of this which is creating problems for
06:20 them so I support it but to the content of your question 14 or 15
06:27 countries of the member states of the European Union use special operational
06:32 software tools to actually trace any potential breaches of law in a
06:41 bigger scale related to corruption or terrorism and any case I was asking my
06:49 minister responsible for the Secret Services if every case any case was
06:56 submitted to a to a judge for agreeing if this software may be used or may be
07:05 may not be used and I was given a very transparent and very blunt reply that in
07:14 each and every case an independent judge was agreeing or not agreeing with using
07:22 this spyware this software this is why I sleep well. So you believe no
07:28 misdoings will be found after the investigation? I hope I hope not. Okay thank you very
07:33 much for your time. Thank you so much.