Rob Bailey sits down with the Leader of the Opposition at Kent County Council and parliamentary candidate, Dr Lauren Sullivan, to discuss Labour's alternative budget, the Lower Thames Crossing and the looming general election.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Welcome to this special edition
00:20 of the Kent Politics Show,
00:22 in which we're interviewing some of Kent's
00:23 big decision makers and influential politicians.
00:26 And with me today is Dr. Lauren Sullivan,
00:29 leader of the opposition at Kent County Council
00:31 and the parliamentary candidate for Gravesham.
00:34 Thank you for joining me.
00:35 And of course, we're here in Medway today,
00:37 a scene a year ago of great victory for Labour.
00:41 We had those scenes of a jubilant Vince Maple,
00:43 the leader of Medway Council,
00:44 Keir Starmer joining him, grinning from ear to ear.
00:47 What have you made of the challenges
00:49 that Labour have had since winning Medway,
00:51 the very difficult budget they've had to deliver here?
00:54 And to what extent does that foreshadow
00:56 some of the challenges you think might lie ahead?
00:58 - Last year, Gravesham also retained a Labour council there.
01:01 We saw, you know, huge victories over here at Medway.
01:05 And I think Vince has been on the programme for,
01:07 and as you said, you know, you look at the books
01:09 and then, wow, there's a huge, huge black hole
01:12 of funding, of national funding,
01:13 that hasn't covered the services that he needs to.
01:17 When you look at Kent, Kent's budget,
01:20 this current year is still predicted
01:22 to be a 30 million pound overspend.
01:25 You've seen youth services absolutely decimated.
01:28 We're no longer providing a youth service.
01:31 You've seen community wardens taken back,
01:35 reduced to say what.
01:37 We're seeing tips, which may still be on the agenda
01:42 for this current year.
01:43 Libraries coming on the agenda.
01:45 So charging vital social services.
01:47 I mean, there are so many quite scary, huge decisions,
01:52 which we don't have to take,
01:54 because if government actually funded
01:56 local government properly, we wouldn't be in this mess.
01:59 - But it's the interesting,
02:00 kind of the poison chalice element of this, isn't it?
02:02 Obviously a great wave of optimism
02:04 from Labour here in Medway.
02:06 There were an instant talks about kind of addressing
02:09 a lot of issues, but ultimately the hands have been tied
02:12 by that economic reality.
02:13 - Completely.
02:14 - If Labour win the next general election,
02:17 if Labour win the Kent County Council elections next year,
02:19 that financial economic reality isn't going to change,
02:22 not in that kind of short amount of time.
02:24 - The message of change is that we've got a long-term vision.
02:27 We've got a long-term plan.
02:28 We've got a 10-year plan of renewal for this country.
02:31 So at least that is going to be putting us on the track
02:34 of actually, right, here are the investments
02:36 we're going to be doing.
02:37 We're looking at Great British Energy.
02:38 We're looking at the New Deal.
02:39 We're looking at warm home installations.
02:42 It's about galvanizing our national interest into,
02:47 okay, this is where we're heading.
02:48 We're heading for a better future,
02:50 a better future for Britain.
02:52 - We had a little insight into what some of the detail
02:56 of Labour's manifesto commitments for Kent might be like
02:59 in your alternative budget, KCC.
03:02 Your strategy was to propose 4 million investment
03:04 in helping children essentially re-socialize
03:07 after the pandemic, 4 million investment in youth clubs
03:10 for older children, 5 million pounds in total
03:12 of reversal of cuts, some of the areas
03:15 you've already mentioned here, funded in part
03:19 by a kind of speculative, speculate to accumulate
03:23 kind of thing where you sort of say,
03:24 well, if you invest now, you save money in future
03:27 because things like mental health,
03:29 we said they're investing now will mean
03:30 that there is less need for care and support.
03:33 But does that speculate to accumulate kind of strategy
03:36 pay off when there is such a big black hole
03:38 to deal with now?
03:40 Do we have the luxury of time for that to work?
03:43 - I mean, it is the case of prevention first, absolutely,
03:45 because we know, and listening to young people,
03:48 listening to children that are, like you say,
03:52 coming back after COVID and we're seeing
03:55 that there are additional needs
03:57 and they haven't had that time to socialize
03:59 and they've had so much time and focus
04:01 on catching up with the curriculum.
04:04 They haven't developed all those other social skills,
04:06 soft skills, confidence.
04:08 - We'll ask you about one specific service,
04:09 which has been in the news recently,
04:11 was the result of the recent budget round of cuts,
04:14 which was transport to school for SEND pupils
04:18 who are post-16.
04:19 - Indeed.
04:20 - Obviously, Kent had always offered that for free,
04:23 won't be doing so anymore.
04:25 In other parts of the county, Medway, for example,
04:26 obviously Labour run Medway now,
04:28 it isn't actually a free service.
04:30 It's there is a parental contribution to that.
04:32 Is that a service that you would restore to being free
04:35 or would you be looking to continue along this path
04:38 of charging parents at least a contribution?
04:42 - So I think in our alternative budget,
04:43 we reduced the charge that was being proposed.
04:47 But in terms of special educational needs provision
04:50 post-16, I think the wider question is,
04:53 is there enough provision?
04:54 And the feedback I get from parents with children
04:58 that are in year 11, that are about to move on,
05:01 is there isn't enough provision.
05:02 So actually, we either have to have the provision
05:06 where the children are or locally,
05:08 or we help them get to where they need to go.
05:11 - We've spent a lot of time talking about
05:12 your KCC role so far.
05:15 Before we start talking about your parliamentary
05:18 aspirations, if you are elected,
05:22 would you continue to be the leader of the opposition
05:24 or potentially even the leader of Kent County Council?
05:27 - So that's an interesting question.
05:30 So we'll have to wait and see.
05:32 I mean, there's a lot of things going on at the moment,
05:35 as you'd imagine.
05:36 I would imagine that that would be a role
05:40 that I would move on with and pass on
05:43 to some very, very safe hands.
05:45 We've got a fantastic group at Kent County Council.
05:48 We've had four new Labour members
05:50 and they are all back up to speed
05:53 on how to hold the Conservative administration to account.
05:56 But at the end of the day,
05:57 it's a role that I take incredibly seriously,
06:01 very passionate about being leader of the opposition
06:04 and ensuring that public scrutiny and good governance,
06:08 so that those decisions that are being taken
06:10 by the administration are done in the Nolan principles
06:15 of openness, fairness, transparency,
06:17 all of those different principles.
06:18 - Of course, you are currently on tenterhooks
06:20 waiting to see when a general election will be announced.
06:22 - When is it? Yes.
06:23 - Are you confident now that it won't be
06:27 an imminent announcement?
06:29 - I think the whole country is like ready.
06:32 Let's take it to the country.
06:34 Let's see what people think.
06:35 We need some certainty.
06:38 I can't imagine another five years
06:40 of this chaotic Conservative government.
06:44 Let's get some certainty.
06:45 Let's get a clear path to recovery
06:47 and let's get a better Britain.
06:48 - So you've obviously,
06:49 you're already on the campaign trail.
06:51 We know that already, but here you are.
06:53 Your commitments at the moment,
06:56 obviously there's gonna be some specific policies
06:59 I imagine trickling out once we get a little bit closer
07:02 to the day itself,
07:03 but you've outlined some general kind of areas
07:06 of focus for Gravesham.
07:08 One of them is businesses and jobs
07:10 and encouraging investment.
07:12 How does Gravesham get more jobs?
07:15 How do you encourage that investment into the bar?
07:18 - We've already got quite a nice independent business,
07:20 growing independent business sector.
07:23 We've done some research and we found that we thought
07:25 we had about 30 creative businesses in Gravesham.
07:28 We've got over 400.
07:29 Right, okay.
07:30 How can we help bring them together?
07:32 How can we help them bounce ideas off of each other?
07:34 So what we've been doing is we've got a new tech hub,
07:37 which is gonna go into St. George's shopping centre.
07:40 So flexible working space for tech and creative people.
07:43 Brilliant.
07:44 The other things businesses have been telling me
07:46 is about office space.
07:48 So it's like, right, okay,
07:49 we need some more flexible working office spaces
07:52 because a lot of our businesses are outgrowing
07:56 where they can be.
07:56 Okay, how can we get that into either the local plan
08:00 or how can we get that investment from developers
08:02 to build business spaces?
08:05 The other thing that businesses tell me is about police,
08:10 policing and the kind of the air and feeling safe
08:12 in the town.
08:13 So again, that's something that needs to,
08:15 I mean, we've got police and crime commissioner elections
08:17 this year.
08:18 Those are things that make a huge impact
08:21 in the economic potential of an area.
08:25 - How important is new infrastructure for that?
08:27 I mean, obviously we know that the Lower Thames Crossing,
08:31 for example, has been talked about,
08:32 it's been kicked in the long grass.
08:34 It's going to be a post-election issue now.
08:36 Do we have any idea of whether or not a Labour government
08:40 or you as a local MP would be advocating in favour
08:44 of that going ahead?
08:45 - So at the moment we are not,
08:49 mostly because we haven't had clarity
08:52 on the charging structure.
08:54 So whether they will charge the Dartford Crossing lower
08:58 or higher to reroute people differently.
09:01 We know what happens when the Dartford Crossing goes down
09:03 and whole of Gravesham becomes gridlocked.
09:06 Essentially what happens if two goes,
09:08 where are all the different contingencies?
09:10 Actually, it's not just about Lower Thames Crossing,
09:13 it's the wider network and the resilience of that network.
09:17 We've got to have a discussion in the round
09:20 about actually the benefits that it will bring to Gravesham.
09:23 - So pushing that back a little bit further.
09:24 What about international trains from Ebbsfleet,
09:27 which is again a big part of-
09:28 - What's going on there?
09:30 Come on, open them up again.
09:31 It was great.
09:32 Before the pandemic, we went over to Paris for a day.
09:35 We had a day trip and it was lovely.
09:37 Why can't we do that?
09:38 And we know that businesses have located near Gravesham,
09:42 Dartford or Ashford indeed, because of that link.
09:45 And also with the EU entry system
09:49 that is now coming into force in October,
09:51 St Pancras is going to be a significant,
09:55 has a significant impact.
09:56 So actually having Ebbsfleet
09:57 and Ashford International open again
09:59 where those checks can be done also there.
10:01 - There's a very broad statement
10:02 on your website at the moment.
10:04 I'm sure it will be edited in future
10:06 as you start to specify things.
10:08 But your aspirations for Gravesham,
10:11 government should invest in our schools, our highways,
10:13 our childcare, children's centres, libraries,
10:15 leisure facilities, parks, open spaces.
10:17 It's quite the shopping list, isn't it?
10:19 Do you think it's realistic to kind of be thinking
10:21 government should invest in all of these things?
10:24 Can we expect investment across our public sector like that?
10:28 - I think we should.
10:29 I think we've got to call for it.
10:30 If nobody calls for it, then how will it ever change?
10:34 I would argue that that's the role of the local MP
10:38 is to call for this very investment.
10:41 So no, I reject your premise.
10:44 - Final thoughts on the election.
10:46 How do you think things will play out in Kent
10:48 whenever this election happens?
10:50 - It all depends on when it's going to be.
10:51 It depends.
10:52 There's so many variables at the moment.
10:54 I'm talking to so many people on the doorstep
10:58 and a lot of people are just genuinely undecided.
11:00 I mean, we hope for the best.
11:03 - It's a non-committal answer, isn't it?
11:06 Will you take the 97 seats, do you think?
11:08 - I mean, I hope so.
11:09 I mean, the route to government runs through Kent
11:13 and I think that's really important.
11:15 You need at least four seats in Kent.
11:18 We need to have that representation
11:20 so that we get the best deal for Kent and the South East
11:24 'cause I think we are key players
11:27 in the national stage in Kent.
11:28 We have so many national challenges.
11:33 So we need to make sure that there is representation
11:35 from Kent in government or in parliament.
11:40 That speaks up for Kent's residents, for Kent's interests.
11:45 - Dr. Lauren Sullivan, thank you for joining us.
11:47 - Oh, thank you very much for having me.
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