Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Labour's Dartford Councillor Victoria Akintomide-Akinwamide and David Mote, Conservative Dartford Cabinet Member for Housing.
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00:00Good evening and welcome to the Kent Politics Show, live here on KMTV, the show that gets
00:22Kent's politicians talking. I'm Oliver, leader of the Saks, and this week we're celebrating
00:27a very unusual birthday. 30 years of Eurostar connecting mainland Europe to Kent via train.
00:35With calls for more rail infrastructure in Kent, it's not quite a happy anniversary for
00:39everyone. With historic industrial action threatening services at Kent pharmacies, and
00:45the economy slumping between July and September, are we in for a bleak mid-winter? Well, to
00:51make sense of it all, I'm joined by Labour's F3 councillor, Victoria Akintomimidi Akinwamidi,
00:58and Conservative Dartford cabinet member for housing, David Moat. But first, after decades
01:03of transporting people to the continent, our reporter Xenia Nakfi has been looking into
01:08whether politicians here in Kent feel the Eurostar will ever return.
01:18Eurostar has been taking Brits to and from continental Europe for 30 years. Despite no
01:23train stopping in Kent since 2020, the county has played a huge role in the service's history.
01:29With purpose-built stations in Ashford and Ebbsfleet opening in 1996 and 2007 respectively,
01:36the idea was that Kent commuters would benefit by regular trains being freed up. With the
01:41company having ruled out trains returning to Kent before 2026, some campaigners are
01:46beginning to lose hope.
01:47Well, I think with Eurostar themselves, I think not in the near future at all. Obviously,
01:53every year that you get the sort of annual story, it is a bit of an annual tradition where they say
01:59we're not going to do services this year and probably not next year either. So it's always
02:05mañana, it's always tomorrow. I think the most hope is really with something innovative coming
02:10from a competitor rather than Eurostar themselves at the moment. Unfortunately, because Eurostar
02:15obviously have the trains and they have the staff and they could open things up quite quickly
02:19were they minded to do so, but I just don't think that's a realistic prospect at the moment.
02:24One petition to see Eurostar's return to Kent has been signed more than 60,000 times since
02:29April 2023. The Dartford MP Jim Dixon says returning Eurostar is one of his key priorities
02:36since becoming MP in July.
02:38We really do need to see international services restored as soon as possible because actually
02:44it provides a vital service for people in our part of Kent, but also it's great for jobs and
02:51the economy of places like Ebbsley, Gravesham and Ashford too. So it's vital that we do see
02:56those services resumed and I will be working very hard to make that happen.
03:01So whilst it's clear there's an appetite for Eurostar here in Kent,
03:04it's not clear whether if or when it will return. Xenia Nakfi for KMTV.
03:11Well, Victoria and David join me here in the studio. I want to ask a million dollar question.
03:16Is Eurostar actually going to come back? David, we'll go to you first on this one.
03:22Well, I think it will. I certainly think it will come back to Kent. It is in Kent already.
03:26It stops at Ebbsley. Ebbsley's Kent. So it is in Kent. Ashford obviously is an issue.
03:32I can't speak for Eurostar, but I'm hoping that, of course, they will bring it back.
03:37It's a very key part of the infrastructure for our part of the world and it's a missing link.
03:43We're fine in Ebbsley. We can use the trains there. We can get into town extremely quickly,
03:48but I feel for the residents further down the line, obviously in places like Ashford,
03:54who don't get that opportunity. I've used the train many, many years ago to go to France
03:59from Ebbsley. It was fantastic. They need to sort this out and they need to sort it out quickly.
04:06And do you think it's a possibility under this Labour government? Obviously,
04:09they want to bring it back. We haven't heard anything yet about it coming back before 2026.
04:15Does it concern you? Actually, it doesn't concern me because this
04:18Liberal government is determined to ensure that this area of North Kent is well connected,
04:25having effective infrastructure, making sure residents are able to get to work quickly.
04:30It's part of the Labour government's priority. So I don't think it's something that the Labour
04:36government would not want to come back. Actually, it makes sense for the local economy. It would
04:43make sure that residents in Ebbsley and the surrounding areas are able to get to work
04:48quicker. They're able to get into London quicker. They're able to get into Paris quicker as well.
04:54So I'm not concerned on that front. Well, Eurostar say that they understand
04:59that the delays to its return to parts of Kent is disappointing for local communities,
05:04and they will continue to work with local councils. Now, David, you are a cabinet member
05:08at Dartford Borough Council. Have you been talking to Eurostar or have the council been talking to
05:14Eurostar about more regular services or to other operators that might be willing to step in to meet
05:20that additional demand? Dartford's been talking to everybody. I mean, we've been very keen to
05:26get this sorted out. And it's interesting that Victoria should say that the Labour Party are
05:32extremely keen to keep infrastructure right in North Kent. And then they delayed the whole
05:38Lower Thames crossing. That's going to be key to it. I know it's going off the rails slightly
05:42on this subject, but it is key to infrastructure. But you're quite correct in the fact that we speak
05:48to everyone. We will speak to anyone who will listen to us. But at the end of the day,
05:53the real push must come from government. What do you make of that? Do you think that Labour's been
05:59lacking on infrastructure, given they've kicked the Lower Thames crossing into the long grass
06:04until next year? I think we can't say that the Labour government have kicked the Lower
06:09Thames crossing into the long grass. Not at all. They've delayed the decision until May,
06:14but the importance of infrastructure and making sure that that area of North West Kent is well
06:19connected and runs smoothly is fundamentally on the agenda. For example, in the last week,
06:25the Labour Party's investment summit, one of the reasons why we gathered the investment summit was
06:32to ensure we can get funding for massive infrastructure projects like the Lower Thames
06:36crossing. So I wouldn't say that it's been kicked into the long grass. But on the topic of Eurostar,
06:43obviously Labour have re-nationalised railways early on. They have re-nationalised rolling stock,
06:48which is the trains that run on our services. And surely that makes the chance of Eurostar
06:53coming back or other operators using the line less likely. Surely if the government had their
06:58own rolling stock, their own trains, they could be creating their own service. Surely this is
07:02something they should have considered? I mean, the government have thought about the infrastructure
07:06plans for the area for a very long time. And we have a commitment to make sure that the part of
07:12North West Kent is well connected, because fundamentally the amount of residents that
07:17coming to Epstead and Gravesend and that area is increasing even more. In the next 10 years,
07:25there'll be about, in my area in Epstead, there'll be an additional 10,000 new homes.
07:31And the government is thinking of that and planning towards ensuring that we have the
07:34right infrastructure to support that. And David, as the cabinet member for housing,
07:38you know that the issues of overpopulation and the influx of people coming to North Kent
07:45is going to have a massive impact. Is our rail infrastructure there to meet it?
07:52The rail structure is there. As you say, go further into Kent, it possibly isn't.
07:57And of course, the whole business with Epsleet, which, strange enough, I used to represent many,
08:02many years ago before it became a ward of its own, is the fact that there is more housing there.
08:07And a lot of people use Epsleet as their way of getting into town. But also around that central
08:13part of Epsleet, which we formed around the station, is going to be a fantastic new growth
08:17of businesses and homes and mixed use. So it's got to be a centre of everything. But it has to link
08:25and it has to be integrated with all the other areas of infrastructure, including the A2 and
08:31the Lower Thames Crossing. You can't talk about these things in isolation. And obviously, a big
08:36bit of connection is the Elizabeth Line potentially running through Bexley and down towards Epsleet.
08:42Is this something that you would welcome? Do you think residents will actually get a kick out of
08:45having the underground running into Kent? Absolutely. Because if you remember, Oliver,
08:51the Crossrail Consultation in 2000-2004, it was meant to end in Epsleet. And it was meant to end
08:57Epsleet at this side of the river, and then Sheffield at the north part of the river. So
09:01they thought about it then that there will be a demand for that service this time around. So
09:08I completely support the Elizabeth Line ending in Epsleet. But surely, David, if we should be
09:15focusing on good jobs, good opportunities here in Epsleet, why do we need to rely on London
09:20potentially for our rail connections? Surely, is it that Epsleet should be a commuter belt or
09:25should we have opportunities for local people in the area as well? Oh, without a doubt. I mean,
09:30we don't want a place like Epsleet to suddenly become a dormitory town where people get on trains
09:36and go into London. We want them to stay here. And of course, the whole working practices that
09:40we recognise nowadays, people working from home, not working in town as often as they used to do,
09:46means that there is a lot of work and a lot of jobs actually in our part of the world. And there
09:50will be more. We've got to recognise that our particular part of Kent has been a gateway
09:55for the United Kingdom since before the Romans. So it's very, very key. But people also tend to
10:01forget why the Elizabeth Line stopped at Abbey Wood. It stopped at Abbey Wood because it's very,
10:07very difficult to electrify the line from Abbey Wood to Epsleet. It has to be done. And I think
10:14everybody is keen to do it, but it ain't going to be as easy as possibly people will make out.
10:19Do you think that Labour politicians in the area are making it sound easy, are promising what they
10:23can't deliver? I don't think we're promising what we can't deliver. I think we're fundamentally
10:28working together. So Daniel is working with Jim to present this case to the government that there
10:34is a demand for the extension to Epsleet because not only will it improve the local economy,
10:40but to allow residents to be well connected with London and the surrounding areas as well.
10:45Well, strangely for the Kent politicians, you both are agreeing just as much as you're
10:50disagreeing with each other, which is a unique situation to be in. We'll be back after the race
10:55with more debate from across the county. But now, just for a bit of disclosure,
11:01Victorian Akinwomedhi is the candidate for the Labour and Corruptive Party in the Swanscombe
11:07and Greenhive Kent County Council by-election. And while the Conservatives do have David here
11:11as the local councillor representing their position, the full list of other candidates
11:16you can vote for on Thursday 21st November is as follows. Laura Helen Kerr-Eadie for the Green
11:22Party. Carol Mary Gale for the Conservative and Unionist Party. Dawn Margaret Johnson for the
11:28Swanscombe and Greenhouse Residents Association. Thomas Mallon for Reform UK. And James Martin
11:34Willis for the Liberal Democrats. Coming up after the break, Kent's pharmacies could see
11:39their hours slashed and services axed. So what can be done? Stay with us.
14:39Well, welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
15:03talking. Still joining me is Labour Ex-Fleet Councillor Victoria Akinwomedhi and Conservative
15:10Dartford Cabinet Member for Housing David Moat. But now, a Longfield pharmacy is one of thousands
15:17across the country who say they have to withdraw services and cut hours if the government doesn't
15:22provide more support. More than 3,000 community pharmacies from across the UK have balloted for
15:28industrial action, with emergency contraception and addiction services being on the line. Well,
15:34I was in North Kent, in the North Kent town yesterday, speaking to those that could be
15:38impacted. Tight margins, anger at the government and fears of cutting services to survive. The
15:45story here at Hodgson's Pharmacy in Longfield is one playing out across the entire country,
15:52with a family-owned business being one of more than 3,300 independent pharmacies to vote in favour
16:00of unprecedented industrial action. The National Pharmacy Association, which ran the ballot,
16:07is demanding an additional £1.7 billion in funding annually to address financial pressures
16:14facing the sector, partially in response to a budget which saw minimum wage and national
16:21insurance tax contributions rise. It's got to a point now, the sector is broken. You're seeing
16:28one pharmacy a day on average close. In Kent, we've seen roughly 20 pharmacies close already
16:34across the last year, year and a half. And that's nearly 10% of the pharmacies that were existing.
16:39So it's crunch point. We can't have any more pharmacies closing and putting patients at risk
16:44of not receiving the much-needed healthcare that they get from the pharmacies. The action means
16:50that if the government doesn't provide more money, the way pharmacies operate in the county
16:55could change. For a start, pharmacies would be unlikely to open beyond the minimum hours required,
17:02particularly in the evening and at the weekends, while local services such as emergency contraception
17:10and addiction support could be axed. And for those here in Longfield reliant on their last
17:16remaining pharmacy, looming industrial action has left them worried. I was quite shocked to
17:23hear it. Obviously, down in Longfield and the surrounding areas, we've just got this one
17:29pharmacy now. So to reduce the hours would be really difficult. I think it's terrible. Yes,
17:39we need the chemists more than ever because of the lack of doctors that we can see.
17:45They are very helpful and they can give us some professional advice. And they get to know us too
17:51because we're all on this living road. You can't get a doctor's appointment. So quite often we'll
17:56go as our first protocol to our pharmacist. We rely on them. And if the pharmacists are going
18:01to be closed, then it's going to impact on us getting that medical treatment that we might need.
18:06The government say that community pharmacies have a vital role to play in their 10-year health plan,
18:13blaming the system they inherited and stating they are committed to working
18:18with the sector to come to a solution. But for independent pharmacies like Hodgson's,
18:24a failure to commit to additional support would be a bitter pill to swallow.
18:29Oliver, leader of the SAS for KMTV in Longfield.
18:34Well, Victoria and David are still joining me here in the studio. And put simply,
18:39whose fault is it at the moment that pharmacies are struggling right now? David,
18:43we'll go to you on this one quickly. Well, I think the problem is that
18:48they're struggling for a lot of reasons. Let's face it, there's not just one.
18:52We've got to recognise that they are, in fact, small businesses. And regrettably,
18:56I do believe that the last budget has really hit small businesses. They're all being hit by things
19:02like raised national insurance figures. They're all having to review what they do. We in Darfur
19:08do have real problems with doctors, not doctors themselves, but actually getting to see one.
19:13And so almost 20% of people now don't bother with the doctor. They go straight to the pharmacy,
19:19which actually adds the loads onto the pharmacy. We need to sort something out with our doctors,
19:24our GPs. And it would be lovely if the integrated care board would actually open a few more
19:33surgeries in our area. That would take a bit of the pressure off. But we've got to recognise
19:37they are small businesses and they have to make ends meet. And recently, unfortunately,
19:42I'm not sure the tax associated with the last budget is going to help them very much.
19:49I guess it's the straw that may have broken the camel's back.
19:51And what do you make of that? Do you think the budget is the reason that pharmacies like this
19:54one are struggling? Obviously, they did about 60% of independent pharmacies voted partially in
20:00response to the budget that was just a few weeks ago. Do you think that's the root cause here?
20:06We need to remember that under the Tory government, the pharmacies face years of cuts.
20:12During the Tory government, there were over 1,200 closures of pharmacies across the country. So the
20:18Labour government inherited a minefield in relation to how the Tories actually funded
20:24pharmacies across the country. And you would note that this budget is to ensure that we get some
20:31fundamental funding into the system so that we can then reinvest back into our social health
20:36system as well. So if we're going to put a blame, we need to look at the 15 years of the way the
20:42Tories actually treated our pharmacies before we then go into this budget that was made last month.
20:50David, you don't seem particularly convinced on the screen there.
20:54Well, it is difficult. It is. Things have had to change over the last 15 years.
20:58What people tend to forget, and they have very short memories, is that when the Conservatives
21:02came into power 15 years ago, somebody wandered into the Treasury Office and found a piece of
21:07paper saying, I'm afraid there is no money. We've been battling back for 15 years and it's not easy
21:14to do these things and you have to cut your cloth. And now the Labour Party are finding that it's not
21:20easy to be a government. You have to make tough decisions. And some of these may have been tough
21:25decisions in the past. We've had to adapt to the way people are. There is no root cause. The root
21:32cause is there are far more people out there. We are not getting the pharmacies linked in so closely
21:38with GPs. But more importantly, in our part of the world, we are having problems actually seeing GPs
21:44and therefore there's more and more work going into pharmacies. 20% and over 20%. And that is
21:50seriously unusual. But it is the case in Dartford. Well, Victoria, let's talk less about causes and
21:56more about solutions. Because the National Pharmacy Association is calling for more than a billion
22:01pounds in funding, £1.7 billion. Is that realistic? Can the government actually deliver the funding
22:07that pharmacies need? Are you confident the government will meet at the table and negotiate
22:12with these associations? What I'm confident about is that in our 10-year health plan,
22:17working with pharmacies and ensuring that there's a good network of community pharmacies
22:23is central to that plan. And that plan has been funded and costed. So that is what I am
22:29very much confident about. And you would note that West Drayton has already spoken to
22:34pharmacies that is willing to have a conversation with them to ensure that
22:38this doesn't spiral down any further. But if it's not community healthcare,
22:41is that going to put more pressure on pharmacies already struggling to make ends meet?
22:46I don't think so. I think the approach is very much collaborative. It's ensuring how do we
22:52make sure that pharmacies serve the communities that they're in. And the aim of the 10-year
22:58health plan is to ensure that these pharmacies are well funded to benefit the communities that
23:03they're in. So what do you think the solution should be, David? Obviously, these are small
23:08businesses. They are seemingly struggling. Do you think the government should provide that £1.7
23:12billion that seemingly the previous administration was unwilling to part with?
23:20When you've got budgets to balance, it's very difficult to be able to give money to everybody.
23:26But we do, I think, believe need to think outside the box and find ways of doing things.
23:31They do need more money. Perhaps we need to look at ways in how we run these things.
23:35It has to be remembered that a lot of the services now in pharmacies were because pharmacies said
23:40they wanted to do it because they had that capacity. They had that ability. These are very,
23:46very professional people. And they've taken on more. But the trouble is that the funding hasn't
23:51kept up with the stuff, the stuff, that's a terrible thing, the actions that they take.
23:57They do need more money. But I do believe also we need to be looking at how we integrate both
24:02pharmacies and well, not just both pharmacies, pharmacies, GPs and the wider National Health
24:08Service. I think we've kind of moved on to the budget slightly. So let's dive into that,
24:12because in the lead up to the budget, it's been revealed the economy barely grew between July and
24:17September due to that uncertainty. And those are the first three months of a Labour government.
24:23It's not a good look for the first three months of a Labour government to not have that much growth,
24:26only 0.1% in that period. No, we need to look at the plan that the Labour government has for
24:33our economy. The economy is not just going to change overnight. But you can see like in the
24:40last three months, there's been specific moves by the Chancellor in order to ensure that we get the
24:47right investment in our economy, the investment summit that she held with all the important
24:53investment organisations across the world. A recent Manchin House speech set out the plan,
25:00the vision and what she's doing to ensure that the economy goes back to where it needs to be.
25:05So there is a plan, there is a vision, and we're working towards that as a government.
25:09So David, should we criticise the Labour government so far? Is it short termism?
25:13Should we look at them going forward, not judging their record so far?
25:17I think the government's been in power for three months. They've not had a chance to do very much
25:23in three months. They've put a lot of things in place in three months, which may actually have
25:29a detrimental effect. It might not. But three months is a short time to judge anyone, to be
25:34honest with you. And they've got to get moving on doing things. And I think they are getting moving
25:38on doing things, possibly not always the right things. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?
25:43We do need to move forward. I want to just get on with stuff and make sure that our communities do
25:49not suffer. And our communities are made up of small businesses, many of which are now starting
25:55to think, do I employ more people? Do I get rid of people? Because they are getting burdened by
26:01things like national insurance. Great. You don't tax the individual, but if you tax the company
26:06that actually employs them, it might be an issue. Well, I think that's all we have time for, David.
26:09There's a selling point about small businesses there, and I'm sure we could go on about this
26:12all day. It really is all we have time for. Thank you so much for joining us on the programme.
26:17And for all your news and views, you can head to the Kent Online website, as well as catching up
26:24with the Kent Politics podcast. That's what I listen to on the train. And in the meantime,
26:29you can also read the Kent Politics briefing directly to your inbox for all the latest
26:35headlines. But for now, for me, that's everything from us. We'll be back next week. I'll see you
26:40very, very soon.