Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Claudine Russel, leader of the Conservative group at Maidstone Borough Council and Shane Mochrie-Cox, the Labour Deputy Leader of Gravesham Borough Council
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00:00Good evening and welcome to the Kent Politics Show, live here on KMTV.
00:29The show that gets Kent's politicians talking.
00:31I'm Oliver, leader of the Sachs, and I've got a question for you.
00:34What do buses, Kent's farmers and the cost of heating have in common?
00:38Well, as Bill Clinton's strategist once said, it's the economy, stupid, and it's caused
00:43a lot of fierce debate over the last week.
00:47Thousands descended on Westminster over changes to inheritance tax, inflations on the rise
00:53after energy price cap rises, and Kent's seen millions in bus investment in a bid to keep
00:59fares down.
01:00In other words, we have a lot to discuss.
01:02Well, to make sense of it all, I'm joined by Claudine Russell, the leader of the Conservative
01:06group at Maidstone Borough Council, and Shane Mockrey-Cox, the Labour deputy leader of Gravesham
01:13Borough Council.
01:16But first, is it the end for the Garden of England?
01:19Well, that's what Kent's farmers were telling me earlier this week when they marched on
01:22Parliament Square.
01:25It was always going to be controversial, but the government probably weren't expecting
01:30quite this level of backlash when they announced their budget.
01:36The damp and the cold that has soaked me to the bone has done nothing to dampen the anger
01:41of farmers from Kent and beyond.
01:43They are swarming Parliament Square with anger and frustration at a budget that they say
01:49could kill their way of life.
01:51At the end of the day, it's quite easy, at the end of the day, nobody's going to want
01:54to continue farming.
01:55We, as smaller farmers, cannot survive with that.
01:59Everybody thinks that, or a majority of people may think that we're wealthy, that we're big
02:04landowners.
02:05We're not.
02:06I mean, the total land area that I own is 400 acres.
02:10The rest of it's rented.
02:12I don't have a succession plan for any of my children.
02:14They're all moving out of the industry.
02:16On 2026, inheritance tax will apply to farms worth more than one million pounds, the point
02:23at which agricultural property relief ceases to kick in.
02:28But farmers say that while they may be asset rich, that doesn't translate to real terms
02:33wealth and that this budget will now make it impossible to keep family farms going.
02:40We need to get them for a start to raise that threshold.
02:43One million pounds, all that protects is people from within places like London that
02:48come out to places where I live in Lincolnshire, buy a house and they'll probably buy 20 acres
02:54and that's a million pounds.
02:56And they're protecting the wrong people.
02:57They're not protecting family farms.
03:00If my son wants to go on farming, things have got to change because it'll rip a heart through
03:04the Garden of England, the landowners, and they won't be able to continue.
03:08And it will be a generational thing.
03:10But it's not just that.
03:12It's the whole budget.
03:13It's supposed to be an investment budget and it's just crippling everything associated
03:18with this.
03:19By the time speeches started at 11.30, there were simply too many people to march to the
03:24Palace of Westminster as planned, though it did not deter the two largest opposition parties
03:30from lashing out at the government.
03:32You have had it hard and this government doesn't seem to realise that.
03:36This policy is cruel, it is unfair and it is going to destroy farming as we know it.
03:43But it was a certain TV personality cum farmer who got the biggest cheer of the demonstration.
03:50Now I know a lot of people all across the country in all walks of life took a bit of
03:56a kick on the shin with that budget.
03:58You lot got a knee in the nuts and a light hammer blow to the back of the head.
04:05In a joint statement, both the Chancellor and Environment Secretary said they are steadfast
04:11in their commitment to Britain's farming industry and that the property relief will ensure wealthier
04:18estates pay their fair share.
04:20But with so much anger visible from rural communities like those in Kent, will the government
04:26be able to withstand mounting pressure?
04:29Oliver leads us out for KMTV in Westminster.
04:33Well to discuss this more, I'm joined by Shane and Claudine, but Claudine I'm going to go
04:38to you on this one first because you aren't just a councillor, you are a farmer and were
04:42actually at the protest.
04:45Why were you making your voice heard?
04:48Well not just me, I think, what did they say, about 15,000 people were there protesting
04:52so why was I there personally because we are, so we're the sixth generation on our farm,
04:59my children would be the seventh generation.
05:01It's very close to our hearts but I think it's just the threshold is too low, they've
05:07penalised the wrong people so I think we needed to go and make our voices heard.
05:11Shane, do you agree with that?
05:13Because there were on estimates around 13,000 people there, clearly many farmers from across
05:19the country and here in Kent aren't happy, should an inheritance tax threshold increase?
05:26Good afternoon, I think the threshold is something that needs to be fed in as part of this discussion
05:37but it needs to be said that this agricultural relief fund actually is targeting mostly the
05:43wealthy farmers, the top 7% of all those estates claim 40% of that agricultural relief, that's
05:51not right and I think the other side of this debate are people that think that actually
05:56that our services, our public services that need funding including use by those families
06:00that also farm need funding so it's right we make those with the broadest shoulders
06:06bear some of the brunt, the majority of these farmers that will be affected are those that
06:12are from the wealthiest estates.
06:14Claudine I saw you shaking your head there, doesn't seem to be much agreement on that
06:19but the government do say it is the top 7% claiming that 40%, they say that's cost the
06:24taxpayer £219 million, is that wrong, are those claims false?
06:31I think you can see from the figures that the NFU have put out they're absolutely false,
06:35I mean when you're looking at who's affected the threshold like I say is too low, it's
06:40family farms.
06:41I don't disagree with the wealthy landowners, I think that's where we can find some common
06:44ground that top percentage but in all of these things it's never wrong to admit that
06:49you've got your policy slightly wrong, it's never wrong to go back and do an equalities
06:53impact assessment and see who you are actually affecting and then make a U-turn, make a change,
06:59adjust it slightly.
07:00I think it's wrong how they've dug themselves in and got so steadfast over this without
07:04listening to the people that it's affecting.
07:06Shane I wanted to ask you because the NFU says the Treasury claims that 73% of farms
07:13are unaffected by the relief threshold but the Department for Environment, Food and Rural
07:18Affairs says it's 34% of farms are worth less than £1 million, given that there's discrepancies
07:26in the government's own figures here, shouldn't there be some sort of reconsideration, has
07:31the government not been talking to each other about what this actually means for Kent's
07:35farmers?
07:36I think what you've highlighted there is the difference between a policy and an individual
07:41circumstance and that is what's got to come out of the wash of this.
07:45There are individual circumstances that will mean there may be some people affected, that's
07:50where this debate is important, we've got to have the debate in a proper fashion.
07:55But I think having no debates at all isn't healthy and I think this is one of the good
08:00things about engaging in a positive way, we can have this discussion.
08:03But to say that it's almost like there hasn't been anything affecting the farmers for the
08:09last 14 years, they have.
08:11I think the Dories have decimated the farming industry over many, many years with some of
08:16their measures so it's important that actually this is taken in the round and balanced but
08:20it needs to be done in a proper approach and working together with residents and listening
08:25appropriately.
08:26We can do that.
08:27Because Claudine, obviously if we scrapped this inheritance tax it wouldn't fix all the
08:33problems facing farming, it's not all this Labour government's fault from being undercut
08:38from foreign trade deals to the cost of farming implements.
08:43Surely it's the previous government that should take some responsibility for the state farming
08:47is in.
08:48Maybe this inheritance tax wouldn't be such a big blow if there had been better forward
08:52planning over the previous 14 years.
08:55I think we need to be clear about a few things here.
08:58Farmers pay taxes, this is not the only policy that's hitting the farming industry.
09:02The business relief policy is going as well so farmers benefit from that and small family
09:07businesses.
09:09The tax on crew cabs is going up, the fertiliser tax is going up as well.
09:14So it's a whole raft of policies that pretty much seem designed just to kick farmers where
09:20it hurts to be honest.
09:21And with respect, my colleague is an urban MP, sorry, an urban councillor.
09:26His ward is very urban, hardly any green on there and I think this is part of the problem.
09:31We've got a lot of urban MPs and come and speak to us, that's all I'd say.
09:35I'm sure the NFU will extend their arms to help and just give you the information that
09:40you need.
09:41Come to the family farms and just really see who you are affecting by these policies.
09:46Do you think this is just a case then, Shane, of urban politicians, both local and national,
09:52just not getting it?
09:53I don't think that's the case at all and I think as politicians we all represent people
09:59and I think, Claudia, you'll represent people on behalf of the whole of the borough of Maidstone
10:04as well.
10:05I think everyone will do so on behalf of Gravesham and everyone will do the same and I think,
10:09I don't think it's urban and rural, I don't think it is right that you pit one against
10:12the other because we only have Richard Snowden in Sevenoaks saying he took money away from
10:17urban areas and put it to rural areas.
10:19So I think the rhetoric of this sort of divisiveness is wrong and I think we want public services,
10:25we want excellent public services, our NHS, our schools and our education.
10:28As you say, farmers pay taxes, everyone else, we want to find something that, we can't have
10:34a no tax economy and public services for people to be able to make and it should be
10:40urban, rural, together and one country approach.
10:43Well, I've only got time for one last question, I want to ask it to you, Claudine, because
10:46obviously from April to February 26th it'll be a 20% tax but that is half of what inheritance
10:51tax normally is and with the tax free allowance it's actually going up to £1.5 million.
10:56That seems pretty reasonable, a tax over £1 million, to a lot of people that would sound
11:01quite a big number, that sounds quite reasonable, can you kind of explain why you don't think
11:06that is the case?
11:07I do understand that but don't forget most people's houses are included in that, so it's
11:11not just the farmland, you've got your farmhouse as well, all of your machinery on your farm,
11:16that's all included.
11:17When you look at that, it's actually not a big amount and the problem is, as Keir Starmer
11:22said, once the farms are gone they can't come back and we use them to produce food to feed
11:27everyone so I think they are important and the problem with farming is asset rich, cash
11:32poor.
11:33Well, on that note, we could probably discuss this all day but we have to go to the break
11:37now but if you really want to know more about this, check out our Kentonite special from
11:43Wednesday, Farmers vs Starmer, you can watch that on our website.
11:48We're discussing a bit about bus investment after the break so please stick around.
14:57Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
15:12talking.
15:13Still joining me is Claudine Russell, leader of the Conservative group at Maidstone Borough
15:17Council and Shane Mochrie, the Labour deputy leader of Gravesham Borough Council.
15:22And now it's time to talk a little bit about those energy bill rises because Kent is braced
15:28for yet another increase in January as when it will come into force, according to Ofgem.
15:34This means you could be paying just over £1,730 a year, an extra £20 on your annual bill,
15:43which puts prices 50% higher than pre-Covid levels.
15:47And this rise follows a previous increase back in October, which saw an extra £12 a
15:51month being added to people's bills.
15:54This meant inflation actually rose with it to around 2.3%, the highest in six months.
15:59The question is then, how much more can the county take?
16:02Well, the evicted Chamber of Commerce says the future of the economy really is up in
16:07the air.
16:10The increase either in supply chain costs or in wages costs is going to have an immediate
16:14impact on consumers because those prices will be passed on directly to consumers.
16:19So yeah, I think in the new year, we will probably start to see some pre-emptive moves
16:24ahead of that tax increase in April.
16:28But on the positive side, if the government do deliver on their promise to give the go-ahead
16:34to a number of capital projects, like a major infrastructure, then that will start to hopefully
16:40see order books start to fill up for businesses and therefore they may then be in a better
16:44position to absorb some of those costs moving forward.
16:47Well, thank you both for joining me back after the break.
16:50But Shane, I want to go to you on this one because North Kent has a big issue with lots
16:54of poverty and lots of people in need.
16:58What does this inflation mean for people at Gravesham Borough Council, in the local
17:03authority? What will this mean going forward?
17:05Are you worried about these energy bill increases and the fact they just keep happening?
17:11I think what we see with the volatility in bills is because we have a volatile energy
17:15market, we are reliant on so much external energy because we've not built our own.
17:21And Trudie was right in your video piece just there.
17:24If we ensure we've got secure energy and making sure we've invested in our energy
17:30locally and like our onshore wind plans, then actually those bills should come down
17:35because we're not as reliant on other people to generate our energy and electricity.
17:38We have high energy need in order to generate the economy that everyone wants.
17:43So we need to make sure that energy is secure and the energy is developed here in
17:47Britain and made here in Britain so that we can have that level of security.
17:52And that is the thing that bring the bills down.
17:55Because if we don't have that, we're reliant on so many others importing that energy.
18:00That volatility is what's harming the economy.
18:02Let's stop that volatility.
18:04And if we can all get behind those energy plans, then it should be a benefit to us all.
18:09Claudine, do you agree with that?
18:10Because obviously it is to do with foreign markets.
18:13Obviously, we do have the war of Ukraine still raging on, which is a big driver of energy
18:17prices. I know that farming is an energy intensive industry.
18:22Do you think that's like Maidstone and Graveshoe and these areas of Kent could benefit
18:27from homegrown energy?
18:28Obviously, there are concerns that developments in rural green spaces to build these
18:32developments could hurt agriculture.
18:34But is this something you would like to see?
18:36More development in Maidstone around energy development?
18:40And I think, you know, like my colleague said, I think it's an area that needs to be
18:44looked into. Energy bills are high and obviously it's really hurting people.
18:48I think it's really hurting business as well.
18:49Let's be honest, all business across the whole board.
18:52So something does need to be looked at.
18:54My worry with this, though, is when people's energy has previously been tied all to
18:59renewables, their bills didn't seem to go down.
19:02And it seemed to be given as a reason because we were always reliant on international
19:06markets. So, I mean, I don't know enough about it, but I think that needs to be looked
19:10into because it would only be useful if it was actually going to bring bills down, not
19:15just a ploy to put things up on farmland and say that we're going to get everyone's
19:22energy bills down. So that's my worry.
19:24Because obviously Labour has talked a lot about investing in green industries, about
19:29the future of renewables.
19:31Shane, is this something that we should be concerned about, that perhaps that this focus
19:35on renewables isn't actually going to fix this energy crisis, that our grid is still so
19:40focused on gas, on oil?
19:45I think we've got to separate the short term and the long term.
19:48The short term plan is we need an energy mix.
19:53We need an energy mix that fuels our economy in the short term and over the long term
19:58transform that into a greener and more renewable energy source.
20:02Ultimately, we have an energy need, an energy need that is currently not being met.
20:05And that's where the prices are going up, because ultimately it's still a market.
20:09If we have an energy security here in Britain and then we can transform that into a
20:17greener energy and economy, then actually that should have that impact.
20:21Because Colleen is right, businesses rely on this as well, as well as residents.
20:26But we need to ensure that it isn't about, oh, it's OK if it goes up over there.
20:31It needs to be something we all need to look at, because infrastructure is something that
20:36I'm sure my colleague will also say comes up on the doorstep time and again.
20:40Energy, NHS, infrastructure, we need to get behind that level of investment, that
20:45capital investment, so that all the services that people want can be delivered.
20:50Because obviously it is that concern that the material conditions of people's lives
20:54aren't improving.
20:55They're worried about their bills.
20:55They're worried about being squeezed this winter.
20:58And obviously we saw yesterday and with the result coming out today that in the
21:03Swanscombe Greenhouse Bill election, reform beat both the Conservatives and Labour.
21:09Is a failure to address the energy prices and inflation going to be the reason that
21:16your parties may struggle going forward in 2025, the local elections, going forward in
21:21local ward elections, going forward in parliamentary elections?
21:24Does there be a bigger focus on changing the material conditions of people's lives?
21:29Claudine, would you like to answer that?
21:31I think, as was previously said, it's not one bit of infrastructure, it's every bit of
21:35infrastructure that we always hear about.
21:37And I think people need to have politicians we need to realise and make sure we are
21:43listening to people. We do try and get those bigger bits of kit that our area needs.
21:46I think with some of our garden communities that we put through the planning, that is
21:51where 5,000 houses, we can get infrastructure worth of 30,000 houses.
21:56So I think there are things that need to be thought about definitely going forwards
22:00because it's what we've always heard.
22:02And I think the SEAL regime, the Section 106 regime has just not delivered the
22:06infrastructure that our areas need today.
22:09And Shane, do you think that as well?
22:10Do you think that you really kind of changed this culture of development?
22:15And do you think that might help Labour going forward?
22:18Because obviously, popularity after the first 100 days isn't where it was back over
22:22the summer.
22:25I think it's about making the right decisions.
22:28I think if you chase headlines, I think that leads to bad decision making.
22:32You need long term decision making and long term decision making that benefits all.
22:37And I think the planning reforms that the government are seeking to bring in focuses
22:43quite a lot, quite heavily on that level of infrastructure because people have got to
22:47feel the benefits of any development that comes forward.
22:50We have a housing crisis.
22:51We've seen like Right to Buy, for example, we've seen some announcements on that
22:54recently because the houses were sold and we've had nothing to replace it.
22:59So people are like, well, can I have housing?
23:02There's a social housing need.
23:03So all this development should come with the relevant infrastructure.
23:07But the regime, as currently sits, doesn't have any ability or powers to force that
23:14level of infrastructure.
23:15And that needs to come through because it doesn't automatically follow that there is
23:19housing. Therefore, there will be all of this infrastructure.
23:22The legislation doesn't support that at the moment.
23:24It's a matter of negotiation, as was said by my colleague, sealed regulations to
23:28section 106.
23:30There needs to be a stronger emphasis going forward that any development should come in
23:34the necessary infrastructure, not just for that development, but as they integrate
23:39within the community.
23:40And on the topic of infrastructure, we have to go to our next item because a bit of
23:45positive news for Kent is that the government is planning to invest £124 million to
23:50boost bus services across the South East, with the Kent County Council set to receive a
23:55whopping £23 million.
23:59Obviously, for rural areas like the one that you represent, Claudine, this is going to
24:05be a big boost to those isolated communities that rely on their bus services.
24:09Do you think this would be a big benefit?
24:12Well, bus services are expensive.
24:14Obviously, I'm not in the upper tier authority.
24:16So a lot of that work is done by Kent County Council.
24:19But all I can say is I put my son on the bus at ten past seven in the morning and he's
24:24still late for school most mornings.
24:25So that's the reality of trying to get through the middle of Maidstone on a bus, you
24:31know, one an hour if you're lucky.
24:32So, yes, any amount would be welcomed.
24:35And Shane, what do you make of this?
24:36Obviously, £23 million, it's one of the highest of any local authority in the UK for
24:42KCC. Do you think it will benefit Gravesham or is it not really designed for your local
24:46authority?
24:49I think it is, but I think it's about where it is targeted.
24:52We saw some of the bus money that came from the Conservative government,
24:57recommendations to put it on a tunnel between Ebbsfleet and Bluewater, over £20 million
25:02worth of it to save three minutes per journey.
25:05So it's not just about the money.
25:06It's about making sure it's targeted.
25:08It isn't just about urban and rural here.
25:11Residents in my own ward and that lot are still served by a bus that was built in 2005
25:18at times. So we need to, if we're to encourage people onto this transport, it needs that
25:23level of investment, not just in terms of revenue, but capital as well.
25:27£23 million is a lot, but we've got to make sure it is targeted.
25:30But hopefully it's the start of a shift and helping people access buses in the future.
25:37But it needs that level of investment and hopefully we will see that move up and forward
25:40with the legislation that's coming through.
25:43We don't have very long.
25:44Obviously, the buses bill is going to introduce a public recession, which will see local
25:48authorities get a bigger hand in their bus usage.
25:52Is this something that you're both welcome very quickly?
25:54Yes, as long as they can get through the traffic.
25:57How about you, Shane? Do you think that local authorities should have a hand in it?
26:02Yeah, yeah, I think so.
26:04But I agree. I think there's we need to sort the traffic and the highways issues that
26:09currently exist.
26:11Brilliant. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the Kent Politics Show.
26:15Of course, you can get more of your politics news on Kent's online under the politics
26:22tab, as well as checking out the Kent Politics podcast, which you can find on online
26:28as well as the Kent Politics briefing straight to your inbox every single week.
26:34I'll catch up on that after the programme.
26:36But for now, for me, have a lovely evening.
26:40I'll be back at 8pm with the Bulletin and join Bartholomew Hall after the break for Kent
26:44tonight.