Wolves trigger VAR scrapping vote - Liam Keen and Nathan Judah reaction
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00:00 [MUSIC]
00:09 >> By Wolverhampton Wanderers reporter, Mr. Liam Keane.
00:13 Liam, it's your day off.
00:15 It's my day off, but at 7.30 PM on a Wednesday night,
00:20 we're chatting because just like wolves, we're coming to the end of this season.
00:25 We're all ready to go on our holly bobs.
00:29 They drop a bombshell and
00:31 this is a significant, huge breaking news event.
00:37 Wolverhampton Wanderers have submitted a resolution to the Premier League to
00:41 remove VAR.
00:42 I haven't spoken about VAR much this season actually.
00:45 This is probably the first time we'll get to chat about it.
00:48 Wolves have formally submitted a resolution to the Premier League to trigger
00:53 a vote at the league's AGM in June on the removal of VAR from the start of next
00:56 season.
00:57 So this statement, this movement instantly triggers a vote.
01:02 There doesn't need to be a vote here or vote there, whether there is gonna be,
01:06 there will be a vote.
01:07 Wolves have done that, they've started this motion.
01:10 Now, as I'm led to believe, 14 clubs need to say, let's scrap it for
01:14 it to be scrapped.
01:16 Of course, that's 13 now, as you'd expect Wolves to be one of those.
01:20 So they need 13 votes from 19.
01:22 First of all, did you see this coming?
01:25 I mean, there have been rumblings in recent weeks.
01:27 Of course, we had that statement a few weeks back.
01:30 But this is pretty shocking news, isn't it?
01:32 And very dramatic from Wolves.
01:34 Oh, absolutely.
01:35 This is huge breaking news for not just Wolves, but the wider football community.
01:41 This is massive here and abroad for what will be potentially massive changes to
01:47 the biggest league in the world.
01:48 And it's all started at Wolverhampton Wanderers, who are leading the charge.
01:52 So in some ways surprised and some ways not, and I'll explain why.
01:56 Some ways surprised because Wolves have not ever been the club that has
02:02 put out embarrassing statements.
02:06 Nottingham Forest being a good example of this regarding VAR.
02:09 I mean, some of their statements that we have seen have been interesting,
02:12 to say the least.
02:13 I think Liverpool earlier this season have done not something similar to Forest,
02:18 but a statement regarding VAR.
02:20 There's been other situations where clubs have spoken publicly.
02:23 Wolves have never done that.
02:24 Now, in this statement, of course, there's no part of this statement that is
02:28 embarrassing, but it's definitely a development for them to be talking
02:32 publicly and putting something out like this that is so serious.
02:36 That's the bit I'm slightly surprised.
02:38 I didn't think Wolves would necessarily make that jump.
02:41 But there's plenty of evidence out there for why you shouldn't be surprised.
02:44 And it's all come on the field this season.
02:47 Or more importantly, in Soccer Park, hundreds of miles away with individuals
02:53 in front of screens that have made countless, in our opinion,
02:57 and in some cases, the independent panel's opinion, major mistakes.
03:01 So with that evidence in front of us, it shouldn't be a surprise that Wolves
03:05 have taken this leap.
03:06 We understand that the club and the people running Wolves are very disappointed
03:12 and frustrated and disillusioned by how VAR has been used this season.
03:16 So for that, again, shouldn't be a surprise.
03:18 And I'll be very interested to see how Gary O'Neill reacts, because he's
03:21 a manager who has always backed VAR up until partly through this season
03:25 in a press conference when he made it pretty clear that he's starting
03:28 to change his mind.
03:29 And who can blame him?
03:31 Well, that'll be my next question, Liam, is where's this come from?
03:35 Has this come partly from Gary O'Neill?
03:38 Has Gary O'Neill started this statement?
03:42 Has he asked for it to happen?
03:43 Has it come directly from Geoff Shee?
03:47 It's come from Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club.
03:49 So, you know, it's come from the very top.
03:51 It's been OK to the top.
03:52 But I just wonder who's triggered this movement, because it is very dramatic.
03:57 Look, we're not at the end of the season yet.
03:58 So we've still got one game to go.
04:01 The timing's maybe a little bit strange to me in terms of them putting
04:06 their intentions out, I guess, a few weeks ago.
04:09 But Gary O'Neill has already said that he's had a lot of dialect with how
04:12 it went throughout the season.
04:13 So I'm not sure whether that relationship will be any better after what
04:19 they've come out with today.
04:20 So will this be a collective effort or is this something that's come
04:24 from the very top?
04:25 Well, you've got to remember, really sort of relating to my last point,
04:28 that Geoff Shee, of course, did put his statement out.
04:31 Again, nowhere near embarrassing by any means.
04:35 And it was well written in comparison to some of the Nottingham Forest
04:38 things, again, that I mentioned that were quite laughable at the time.
04:41 However, I don't think this will just be a mission from Geoff Shee.
04:46 I think this will be all of the above.
04:48 I think the powers that be at Wolves, for very good reason, are angry,
04:55 potentially might be slightly too far, but at least very disillusioned
04:58 with how the AR has been used.
05:01 It's interesting you mentioned, obviously, Gary O'Neill and his
05:03 relationship with Howard Webb.
05:05 It will be interesting to see what Gary says when we talk to him at the
05:09 press conference on Friday about this, because if he turns around and
05:14 says, I had no sort of say in the matter, no input, which, by the way,
05:19 I'd be surprised if that is the case and I'd be surprised if he says that.
05:22 But if he does say that, that would imply that he was trying to keep
05:26 that relationship with Howard Webb intact.
05:27 But let's be honest, Gary O'Neill and Wolves owe nothing to Howard Webb
05:33 or the PGML.
05:34 They are beholden to themselves and football as a sport.
05:39 As a game and as a business.
05:41 And unfortunately, that game and that business is being harmed, in my
05:44 opinion, by technology that is not being used in the correct way.
05:47 Do you feel that they have got the support of a lot of other clubs?
05:52 They will have canvassed opinion before they put this statement out.
05:55 Of course, we know of two, three, four clubs that will definitely vote
05:59 alongside Wolves to get rid of AR.
06:02 But I just wonder on the broad scale of things, when you look at the
06:05 money, when you look at some of the top teams to get 13 clubs out of 19
06:11 to agree with this personally, I think it's unlikely.
06:14 But is this more of a statement to get changes within VR rather than
06:19 scrapping VR itself, which for me is a bit of a pipe dream at this
06:22 moment in time?
06:23 It's a really good question because, you know, sometimes you do ask
06:27 good questions on that.
06:28 Thank you very much.
06:28 No, I think we'd be very, very naive to sit here and suggest that Wolves
06:34 haven't to some degree canvassed opinion because they would not put
06:40 themselves out there to be shot.
06:41 They would not put themselves out there to be scrutinised if it wasn't
06:47 for at least having some backing for this.
06:50 But I think I agree with you.
06:52 I'm not sure I can see 14 out of 20 clubs, obviously Wolves included in
06:59 that 14.
06:59 I'm not sure I can see 14 out of 20 clubs going with this.
07:02 I can see it being a good number.
07:04 Maybe we get close to 40, maybe 12.
07:07 I don't know.
07:07 Obviously, it's difficult to say at this time, but I think Wolves will
07:10 expect that it's fairly close.
07:13 Otherwise, I don't think they'd have taken this leap.
07:15 At the same time, I think it's going to be a difficult ask to get this
07:19 through.
07:19 But then to your second point there, do I think that Wolves have put this
07:23 out with the idea of, oh, this is never going to pass, but let's hope
07:26 some change happens anyway?
07:27 No, I think they put this through with the idea of trying to get it
07:29 passed.
07:30 That is the purpose for doing this.
07:32 However, the hopefully catalyst of this will be that they can make some
07:39 sort of change to how the technology is used, when it interferes in the
07:45 game, perhaps something to do with individuals involved as well.
07:48 So I think regardless of whether it passes or not, Wolves will hope for
07:55 change of some degree.
07:57 And I do think some degree of change will happen.
07:59 I think this is too big a development that Wolves are leading the charge
08:03 on for something not to happen.
08:04 And I think that's key, what you say there, change to some degree.
08:08 And I'm sure there would have been changes regardless to some degree
08:11 going into next season.
08:12 But I wonder if this kind of a statement and this kind of show of voting
08:17 with your feet might suggest that there might be even more change to what
08:20 even they think.
08:21 I mean, personally, for the fans, I think that, and we put a poll out
08:25 today, I put a poll out a few minutes ago, well over one and a half
08:28 thousand votes and 95% of fans would scrap it.
08:31 As we know, I think I'm with you, whether you move it, whether you
08:36 change direction, it still spoils the game.
08:38 It still slows the game down.
08:40 And realistically, you look at Champions League football these days,
08:43 it's way more exciting.
08:44 I'm all for goal line technology, easy, seconds.
08:47 I'm all for automated offsides, which we're going to be, semi-automated
08:50 offsides, which we're going to be getting very, very soon.
08:53 Fine.
08:53 For me, that's it.
08:54 You don't need to spoil it.
08:55 Why are you affecting the game?
08:57 It's the perfect game.
08:58 It's the best game in the world.
08:59 And I think it's really spoiled it.
09:01 And we've seen other clubs, other countries that are not taking up VAR.
09:06 And I think that, like you say, if it doesn't get passed, it's definitely
09:09 a warning that maybe this could be another vote in X amount of years or
09:14 next year.
09:14 And if it doesn't improve, then maybe we might see the scrapping of
09:17 VAR the year after next or two or three years in advance.
09:22 Yeah, I think that exact point I was going to make, in fact, is that
09:26 there's two aspects which are, for me, separate of VAR that should
09:30 remain in the game.
09:30 And that is goal-line technology and semi-automated offsides, if they
09:34 are instant.
09:35 Now, we've seen it work elsewhere, and they have been fairly instant.
09:39 Provided that's the case and provided it works as seamlessly as possible,
09:44 those two pieces of technology, for me, are absolutely perfect for the
09:49 game.
09:49 And they answer a lot of the questions that people will be having over
09:53 the use and the benefits of technology.
09:56 But, and really, actually, on a side note, that VAR really, the only,
10:00 potentially one of the only positives coming out of it has been offsides.
10:06 Despite the fact that it's been taking so long to get to decisions and it
10:10 slows the game down, all of these negative reasons, which I do agree with,
10:13 getting offsides correct, you can't really argue with them because it's
10:17 black or white, in my opinion.
10:18 It's offside, it's offside.
10:19 Is it within the spirit of the game on some occasions?
10:24 No.
10:24 But if it's semi-automated and it's quick and it's instant and there's a
10:27 decision, I think that makes sense.
10:29 Otherwise, in my opinion, there's been far too many subjective decisions that
10:34 have been scrutinised by VAR, in many people's opinion, got them wrong.
10:39 And then the independent panel, you know, four or five days later, often
10:43 decides that VAR was incorrect to either intervene or not intervene.
10:47 So, in my opinion, it's too many subjective decisions that have been
10:52 impacted by slow-moving, archaic technology that just really ruins the
10:57 game for match-going supporters and everyone else.
10:59 Not only to speak of that, but also the time it's taking to get to these
11:05 decisions.
11:05 I mean, you look at the injury time that referees are adding on these days
11:09 and substitutions, and we're getting 93-minute games going into 99-100-minute
11:14 games.
11:14 There's definitely some kind of a correlation between that and the amount
11:17 of injuries that teams are suffering, especially Wolves this year, but
11:20 plenty of others.
11:21 Long-term injuries because of delays in games and because players are
11:24 getting pushed an extra 10% in games they didn't already do.
11:27 Adding to VAR, which is what, one, two, three moments in a game?
11:32 That's another four or five minutes in games.
11:33 So, it really is contributing to not just the enjoyment factor, but also the
11:37 health of these professional footballers.
11:38 Yeah, spot on.
11:40 Match-going supporters at Wolves and elsewhere work hard for their money,
11:46 love the game, and are having, in many instances, their experience ruined.
11:52 In my opinion, above all else, the match-going supporter is the priority
11:58 when it comes to entertainment value because they spend the hard-earned
12:01 money to go and watch their team play.
12:02 Then alongside that, you've got everyone watching at home, you've got us
12:06 doing our job in the stadium, and let's be honest, how many times have we
12:10 been sat there with our privilege of having replays in front of us and still
12:14 not really been shown what's going on?
12:16 The communication in the stadium is incredibly poor.
12:19 The whole process from A to B is so slow and so poorly run that even if the
12:26 right decision is made, all you can hear, especially at Molyneux, is chants
12:31 of "boring, boring, boring," even if it's going in Wolves' favour.
12:34 And that is for very good reason because the fans are stood there, the
12:37 players are stood there.
12:38 It's not football, in my opinion.
12:41 And then, completely right, you've got the medical side of things.
12:44 The games are going on longer.
12:45 You've got, I think people have to understand how fast-paced and dynamic
12:49 and intense Premier League football is at the highest level.
12:52 It is incredibly difficult to play at the highest level.
12:56 And you've got these super athletes having to stop and stand around for five
13:01 minutes, 10 minutes occasionally while a decision is made.
13:06 It's ludicrous.
13:07 As far as I'm aware, I don't have any to hand, but as far as I'm aware,
13:10 there's no direct correlating evidence to increased injuries with VAR.
13:16 But if someone was to present the evidence, it really wouldn't surprise
13:19 me.
13:20 I just think it's really poorly run.
13:21 And in my humble opinion, it should be gone.
13:25 Thank you very much, Liam.
13:26 I'm sure this story has got plenty of legs to run.
13:30 And of course, you can follow Liam, follow myself and all the latest
13:33 developments with this breaking story exclusively at expressonstar.com.