Thundercat on collaborating with Justice, five years of sobriety and plans for new material
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00:00Always knew this is gonna sound really dark. I always knew I would either die drinking or at one stage
00:06but it's
00:09One of them out is out of the way, so there's only
00:14So I didn't die drinking so there you go
00:17Hi, I'm Liberty. I'm here with NME. This is In Conversation with Thundercat.
00:29Hey
00:30How you doing? I'm chilling
00:33How you been finding London so far? It's been fun. I've been hanging out at Forbidden Planet
00:39Going to Selfridges
00:40You went to Selfridges? Yeah. Did you get yourself some more good jewellery?
00:45Mmm, I've learned not to buy jewellery from a department store
00:50No, but um, no I just I love I have places like that like going when I get here sometimes
00:56How you been finding the tour so far? Have you managed to like go around explore?
01:00um
01:03You know, I mean I go I like going places that I like to go, you know
01:06but a lot of the time I'm kind of to myself so I kind of like
01:10Very like stay in the same places and then like that's it
01:14Speaking of sort of staying in the same place
01:16You've got a bit of like a London residency going on in Camden for back-to-back shows and coca. Yeah. No, that was pretty crazy
01:24If I do say so myself playing back-to-back sometimes this can be challenging because it's like, you know
01:29Where my voice out of it or whatever sometimes but now it's fun. Yeah
01:34How did you find it like for back-to-back nights in the same space? How did you keep it fresh? I don't know just uh, I
01:41Mean playing with Justin and Dennis is always intense as hell
01:45And I think that even if we're just chilling it's still like insane
01:48So it's the part where I'm like, oh if we play the same song
01:51It's gonna it's gonna be complicated even more complicated the next day the next time around, you know
01:56Cuz I was there for the second show you were having fun with it this time
02:00Like you were shredding you were going for it. I feel like was it different each night?
02:04Was it just what felt right in the moment?
02:06Yeah, cuz I don't like a lot of the time there's always this notion of going in there with like
02:11This is the kind of approach to it. I don't really like Dennis loves making set lists and I'm always just like
02:18What would give you the notion that this makes sense right now?
02:21It's like putting a bunch of words in front of my face is like asking me to go figure it out psychologically yourself
02:28Well, it's like, you know, the set list would be there and I just not go with how it feels
02:33Because I feel like touring isn't anything new to you like you're very seasoned with this you've been 20 since you were a teenager, right?
02:40Mm-hmm. I saw
02:42Somewhere online that one of your first projects was a band called no curfew when you were a teen. Is that is that true?
02:53That's rich, um, yeah, yeah, I was in like a little boy band
02:59I
03:00Mean you go start somewhere. I heard that that little boy band was actually didn't kind of well in Germany at some point
03:05So don't don't play it down. Yeah. No, that was a thing and
03:09It was it was pretty fun. I still talked to a couple of the guys in the band
03:13You know, we see see each other and every now and again
03:16I come to a city and it's like, you know
03:18Ryan brings his family out or a keema saw when I go to Japan and he lives in Osaka
03:23yeah, he's like I got a family now and I'm just like over here just being like
03:28Matt stone and Trey Parker from basketball. It's like what are you doing now Steven?
03:32I'm like, I'm still playing video games and collecting Pokemon cards
03:35They're like cool
03:38It's just like okay, you didn't grow up. I'm like, yes, I did. Yes. I did. I got a tour bus
03:42You saw me here on tour bus. I'm an adult
03:47What's it been like for you to tour over so long now has your perception towards like music changed or evolved in any way hmm
03:55I've always been excited for it
03:57Like it's always been like, you know, I would I would indulge in seeing somebody play live
04:03I love I love to stand around and check it out, you know
04:08The excitement's never changed since I was a child. I've always I love that and
04:14As far as it's I mean evolving and like as far as the live thing I mean anything from the
04:20Going from playing bass to singing and playing bass is like the biggest evolution of it to me
04:24I think and I
04:27Don't know. I'm just I'm still I'm very excited about what comes next. Could you ever see yourself?
04:34Releasing music and maybe not touring it in the future. Would you reckon those two will always be inextricably linked to you?
04:42Always yeah, I always knew I'm just gonna sound really dark. I always knew I would either die drinking or on stage
04:49But it's
04:52One of them out is out of the way, so there's something
04:57So I didn't die drinking so there you go
05:03Yeah
05:05Damn well, okay, that's it's like the air got a little thicker in here. I'm sorry, but it's true. It's alright
05:11I mean, at least we're gonna see more of you on the road. We're just
05:15Yeah, guys, I'm okay
05:19Speaking of releasing new music and taking it on the road, you know, I'm gonna ask you
05:25Then the cat worse than you out
05:29I'm working. I've been working on it
05:33you know, I think that it's a
05:35Life in between is just as important as it itself. So I don't know it's like I
05:41Don't put so much. I try not to put so much
05:44Pressure on what it's supposed to be or you know, but I also look at it and I go
05:50I'm just moving in the manner that feels natural to me. I'm very much creating music, of course all the time
05:56But you know
05:59Trying not to think so much
06:01Last time we spoke I asked you the same question and you were like I'm well underway with writing
06:06Since then I've seen you dropping hints online. I went to your live show. You've been dropping songs in there
06:11I feel like we're closer than you're letting on. I mean, you know, sometimes you we sometimes you think it's a shit and it's actually a
06:17fart and
06:19It also sometimes you think it's a fart and it's actually shit. You got to be careful
06:24You never know until you take a chance. So we will see yet. We will definitely see what happens in the near future
06:32Farts and shits now, um the album that's about the same thing
06:36I think it was a song that you described as somewhat of slight a shout out to people with a DD
06:44Yeah, it's that everyone off when you were saying about that but it's a great song I mean
06:53That's gonna be on my head song on my head stone, yeah, that was pretty crazy I said it right it was a nice song
07:00But wait, what was the question
07:03Tell us a bit more about like the inspiration behind
07:07Behind that one that one. I think like it's so like everybody likes the idea of being like, you know something
07:16But at the same time, you know, it's like have you been diagnosed has become a normal
07:20part of conversation
07:22On a daily basis just throughout processing in general, you know, everybody's like, oh great. I have ADHD. It's like you have an iPhone
07:29We all have ADHD
07:32You know, I mean to some degree, you know, especially if you have social media for everything having a name and title in a term
07:39it's always
07:40It almost just doesn't also agree with the part where that I mean, maybe that's normal
07:45You know not having a cell phone. So having a cell phone is not normal
07:50But it's just also like, you know
07:52The idea of there's something wrong with this as compared to that's what it actually is
07:56You know, but it's all out it's all with the idea and notion of functionality and
08:01Highly functioning or low like oh you can you don't move as fast as moves faster
08:05You know, you know, you can get to something faster. Sometimes it doesn't matter either way
08:09you know, so like the whole 80 80d through the roof is like
08:13it's like
08:15Like somebody turned the saturation up and you just even skittles for breakfast. It's like
08:19Immediate crash like not only did I skip school, but I also like stole a cop car and then
08:26That's when I went to go crash it into the to the capital
08:29It's just like what part of that was the 80d the whole thing is just like
08:34Yeah, so
08:37Looking at your last album. I feel like a big
08:41Theme at the core of it was sort of coming to terms with the fact that you're not a big fan of the 80s
08:46Theme at the core of it was sort of coming to terms with loss or even just accepting things that are out of your control
08:53Going forward. What kind of inspiration you've been harnessing?
08:57pain more pain
08:59no, um
09:01that moment when
09:03Anakin thought he was doing good. I
09:06Always think about this moment. I think about this moment quite often like, you know, like when did Anakin actually like snap? I
09:15Think about this this has been
09:18Been a very big debatable conversation, you know, there you go. Like was it the part where you know, you know
09:25he thought he was getting closer to becoming a Jedi and
09:28They just denied him. Was it the part where he?
09:32You know, he followed the orders to kill all the children
09:35no, no, no, I was like
09:37was it the part where a
09:39Killed Count Dooku. No, no, no. No, I think the moment Anakin found out that he was having a baby. That's the inspiration
09:49Yeah, no, um, I think there's always like an air of just letting things be what they are
09:55so there's a part where it's kind of like
09:58The inspiration is just things as they are
10:02you know like
10:05Life
10:06Whatever life is for me right now. I feel like last time we spoke we did talk a lot about Star Wars
10:11That's nice. I was pushing you to get more Star Wars cameos lines up. It was just after
10:18Seeing that was even subconscious. I didn't realize we did that
10:22It's still on the radar. I feel like are you still sort of pursuing it Star Wars?
10:28Always every time I walk into a toy store and I see everybody else's character and I'm just like I'm not good enough
10:35Like where's my toy Hasbro? I?
10:38Mean, maybe they follow my Instagram, huh? I'm surprised I haven't brought one out. I know I'm like they got Moff Gideon
10:44They got everybody. Yeah
10:46Forrest Whitaker. I got everything. They got the robots. I'm like, you know, I'm
10:51Like where the modifiers in the modifier exactly. I mean that to me sounds like a spin-off if it wasn't for you
10:57We wouldn't have finished shuns. I agree. Yeah, I saved finish in I
11:02Have a shop
11:04Give me my shop back
11:06Yeah, or something. I think a spin-off. I think that's too much. I don't think I'm that problematic on the Internet
11:12I haven't said anything too crazy. I
11:15Probably have but we will only find out as things progress. I don't know
11:21Speaking of what you've been posted online you did celebrate five years being sober recently, which first off congratulations
11:29What's that sobriety being like in terms of writing new music or just being creative and other outlets
11:35How's it inspires you or change your approach?
11:38in life, I think that uh, I just chose something different and
11:43What comes with it? It's almost like in certain respects. It feels like I had to walk and learn to walk and talk again
11:51In other respects. It just felt like everybody's always like, ah, does it feel better?
11:55Deciding to stop drinking as
11:58The Eclipse is everything everything right now. It's like you just you decide to stop drinking in the apocalypse
12:03It's just kind of like great timing Steven. It's like like I should have held off a little
12:09no, um, I
12:11Don't know. It's just different. It's different, you know, and I'm just learning to vibe with who I am without it
12:16I'm they'd like to know how
12:18Rather can we expect to see any more of your music in the future?
12:22How
12:23Rather, can we expect to see any collaborations on new material?
12:28Speaking of new starts maybe new partnerships on the way. Oh, yeah
12:32No, I mean that's one of the joys of what I feel like I do
12:35I love the idea of collaborating with people and people especially when it be when it's something that feels right, you know, and
12:43Like it again with like the Dover Street market thing that just happened or like it's not just about music to me, you know
12:51So I'm very excited about things to come in the future
12:55You know, I'd know of a few things that are coming. I'd rather not say because it's like it's
13:00No spoilers. I get in trouble for spoiling stuff for being a little bit too like
13:05Keen on talking about it or like, you know
13:07So there's a part of you really good from having your friend always like thanks a lot Steven and it's just like no spoilers
13:13So I'm learning to shut up
13:15But there are things that are definitely coming that are pretty awesome. How do you decide to pursue a collaboration?
13:21What is it about working with certain person? That is the main thing that jumps out to you?
13:26Um, I don't know. I feel like that's the magic of what it is because it's like it's unexplainable sometimes
13:31Sometimes you get on with people and it's like it's cool
13:35Sometimes it has to be prodded out of you that sometimes that's just what it is
13:39sometimes you want to pursue things and it's you know, but the magic of it is the unknown part and the unlikely or like the
13:46not so
13:48expected
13:49You know, that's a surprise. Actually, I really love this and I want this
13:53Or you know having to venture out into it. So it's like the part for me is the unknown
14:00That makes it something special because it wasn't expected and the thing there was never expected things that would happen in the past, you know
14:09Collaboratively, I feel like it pushes you into new directions in that sense as well
14:13Maybe if you can't envision it sometimes just diving in headfirst
14:17It'll lead you somewhere and it'll be even more creative that way. Yeah, you've got a collaboration with justice coming out later this month
14:23Yeah, tell us about that. I
14:25Love justice and you know, and I would hope that everybody does too. Those are some funky Frenchmen right there
14:32they are and
14:34maybe we had worked a little while ago and you know
14:39It was kind of like again
14:40It was like I didn't know what to expect personally, but all I knew was I was a fan
14:45I knew I was a for sure a fan, you know
14:47and again, I got to see them live before anything and that was mind-blowing, you know, and
14:56When it came to it and
14:58Deciding to meet to try to create something. Well, all three of us were sitting there like this
15:02I don't know what and so, you know like playing songs and playing things. I've been working on we're kind of
15:09Figure places, you know, like what is this? Maybe you can do this. I don't know a play bass or something
15:14We're finding different things and I think that as it started to take shape as to like, ah, we would like you to do this
15:20it was like oh and
15:22Being open to because even for me, it's a bit of a difference in sound, you know
15:26I didn't know how they would feel about you know, even you know, but I think it was us doing this together
15:33so like even when it comes to the writing or conveying the ideas and and the music is just like
15:38It was hands-on between all three of us
15:40Because they wouldn't let me fear off in the space too far when it comes to like what I would come
15:44What would come naturally to mind is like this is not funny
15:48You know, we're like, you know, like trying to find it without it being too cheeky, you know
15:55Speaking of collaborations last time we spoke. I asked you who your dream collaboration would be and you said Andre 3000
16:02Since then he has gone on to release that incredible like 187 minute flute album
16:09What are your thoughts on that have you managed to check it out yet? Yes, I have. Yes, I have
16:13I got to go to the listening party. I got to see like I got to see this installation
16:19I got to see that it's like I'm very proud of my friends that worked on this, you know
16:24Carlos Nino, you know, I'm very proud of him and his work and
16:29I'm very proud of Andre 3000 for step again stepping out stepping into another place and room
16:35He's like it's literally like he just reminded people like hey you forget we artists, you know and
16:43The album is beautiful, you know, and I recently saw
16:48the thing he did with Kamasi and Monopoly and I'm just like I'm
16:53Very elated by the part that this exists, you know
16:55And it's almost like it's a moment for me where it's like I'm getting to see him from different perspectives is just as important
17:02You know, like I remember the first time I met him I met him, you know when he was working with salt rock creative partners
17:09into like, you know
17:11Life where it's like I've had a chance to meet his family and all the above and I'm just happy that he's still here
17:18you know, I mean I'm happy to see him walking around with his beanie on and you know, and now he's like
17:24He's digging into something, you know, and he's on a he's on a path in a different direction that
17:30We're all here to see you know, and this is also again the genuine article of what we all
17:36Generationally have loved, you know, and I still would love to work with him, you know, but only as he sees fit, you know and
17:46Again coming from a fan's perspective
17:48Could you see his new sound and his new approach fitting more or less with the vision that you first had in mind?
17:56I think it all fits
17:59You know, I think it's I think there's a place for all of it
18:02There's there's all there is no separation of him from the rap to the singer to the producer to the flutist
18:10and I
18:12Think that they all are facets or like of a prism
18:17That he is and like it's it all plays together
18:21Something I found really interesting is that you've come from such a musical background
18:25So you've grown up with incredibly skilled musicians as parents
18:29What was it like for you to be exposed to that kind of musicianship from such an early age?
18:34um, I
18:36Couldn't be more grateful for it, you know
18:41It helped me take it serious it helped me like
18:45Know that there was like like there's something to obsess over. That's not crazy
18:50Yeah, no like my parents with the music for me it's like as I get older I'm like
18:54I really, you know, you start to really really appreciate how they raise you
18:59You know
19:00and I think that that's hitting me harder and harder as the time progresses where I'm just like wow my parents really put a lot
19:05into us
19:06And I'm like sometimes I just tell my dad. Thanks
19:10Set him up and say thanks. He's a what nothing. Thank you dad. I
19:15say I love you sometimes and he's like
19:18The proof the best part ever whenever you tell your daddy is like you say I love you dad and he goes
19:23Yeah, I raised you. I was like that means like shut up get away from me
19:27Like I did this already you stay over there. You know, my dad is like again one of the loves of my life and my mom
19:35So I feel like it's amazing in one way. I feel like you got exposed to what great musicianship was
19:40I feel like in your home arts must have been really celebrated when some homes like they aren't as much
19:47Mm-hmm, and being exposed to so many great musicians and inspirations that your parents had and also all the amazing musicians
19:54I'm like the seventies for instance, but also in another way was there may be an element of pressure there as well. Um, I
20:02Mean a lot of the time there's like a like a I don't know if from my perspective
20:07I've always been a bit like
20:09I
20:12Sometimes it didn't immediately feel like that
20:14So I don't think my emotionally or I didn't I couldn't see it like that necessarily as compared to fun for the most part
20:22So like a pressure didn't I didn't feel pressure until mr. Mr. Andrews gave me a bass solo
20:29Because it was always kind of like I I didn't you know, I would be happy just playing but like, you know
20:33You're playing all this big bad music or playing these jazz tunes and you know, Mr. Andrews directing a band
20:38You know, he gives Kamasi a solo or he gives Ryan solo and many he goes like this and says your turn
20:44I'm like this that I remember in those moments. I was like, oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god, man
20:49You know and then at one point I remember being like, okay, he's giving me a solo. I'll be ready this time
20:55Yeah, that was like
20:57early on
20:59because in one of your songs
21:01busting these streets I
21:03Hear you sort of talking about we touched on it earlier the impact of technology in everyday life whether it's through creativity or just
21:11day to day and
21:13I feel like in
21:15That song you're almost yearning for a bygone era where that wasn't as much the case was that maybe from seeing your parents
21:22Right in that time. No, I don't think it's more
21:25I don't think it's a longing as compared to just the observation of like knowing the difference
21:30Like there was I don't think I've ever longed for that like
21:35Not not in a nostalgic sense
21:37But like there's a part where I look at things and realize things like the world will never know what life was like before 9-11
21:44The world will never know what life was like before
21:49You know and everybody goes I remember we used to go outside and I'm like I didn't like that shit either but
21:55It's just like
21:56It's just kind of like, you know realizing like, you know
21:59if it in like every time they say something stupid on you know, like
22:02What if all the cell phones went out and it's just like for anybody that's like this is like I remember that I
22:08Didn't care then either. He's like, oh no crypto crash. You're just like what?
22:14like what
22:16like I still eat top ramen and
22:19Just like I just learned to stop microwaving styrofoam. So you're just like guys
22:25Look it's just like none of it. It's just kind of like cannon fodder. That's what I call
22:30I call most stuff. So like the idea of the song busting these streets is kind of like this weird like I
22:38Literally just got into an argument with a friend about how much I care less about what you're eating in the day
22:43Yeah, you take a pic. Oh, this is looks so good. It's like I don't fucking care
22:49What did you pay your taxes this year I don't care about the sushi you're eating
22:55It was so offensive it was like so like a battleground
23:01Actually, that's messed up. You should be paying attention is like
23:04To what you're going to poop out later
23:07No, I shouldn't
23:09No, that is not as important as the CERN machine that they're about to fire at the Sun
23:15that's clearly gonna reintroduce Kaguya like
23:19Guys, we just we sell we summons the demon. It's like you knew you were gonna do that
23:25it's like
23:27guys, they fired a rocket at the Sun and you're like
23:30Yeah, I'm pretty sure like that's just as important as you and your you know, you're what you guys are doing at the barbecue
23:38Check out this plate of rack of lamb and you're just like we're gonna die. I
23:43Don't know. I guess I'm gonna do a scroller as compared to a
23:47foodie
23:49Foodie it's just like Andrew T
23:55Okay last question I've got for you it seems like Japanese culture and it seems like anime culture
24:02This is more of like on a personal note for me has been at the core of your artist identity
24:07What was it years and years ago that first resonated with you and this made you sort of carry it forward up until now?
24:15Anime mm-hmm. No, this is the part where I got it. I should have had some magnesium because you didn't start panicking
24:21Wow
24:23Why is anime important to me
24:27Because I love illustration I
24:30Love drawing. I am an illustrator myself. I'd like to think of myself as one and then I
24:37Don't know. I'm like
24:39Not only the being like some of the more highlight highlighted moments in my life where I'm like, you know
24:44Like, you know, I've just always like I'm always excited about anime
24:48like, you know, even though everything I always feel like we're kind of like a
24:52mentioned a couple times everything feels a bit post like, you know, it's like Golden Age Silver Age and then like
24:57the ending of Berserk basically
24:59and I'm like every time I say that there's like the only person that knows what the ending of Berserk is is a person that
25:04Knows what the ending of Berserk is?
25:05So it's like it's like I'm always constantly in this weird like oh, that's right. Steven. Not everybody knows what Berserk is
25:13Something like
25:15But it's just like right underneath the surface where I'm just like have you watched Berserk yet? Yeah, it's just like no
25:25You know, but um, I
25:27Don't know like it's always played a major role in the processing for me
25:31Like I I like to back catalog anime now to sometime, you know, it's like I saw something
25:38The other day like I remember when a crunchy roll was purchased by Funimation and I was like, ah, damn it
25:45And then now I've saw that
25:47Funimation was purchased by Sony. I'm like god damn it. We're never gonna get the original version of any of these cartoons
25:53It doesn't nerf them over time and I said somebody I said something to somebody the other day where I was like you walk in
25:58A Forbidden Planet or you walk into a comic store nowadays?
26:01And this is proof that it's just like we're the whatever error we're in is just like is not it
26:05We're like in a simulation. It's the part where I'm like, how is it that manga and anime?
26:11Like there is no 18 and over section anymore
26:15that's proof that like
26:17we're just living in like a Taco Bell taco because it's just like I
26:22Remember where it was like, you know
26:23there was some separation for a reason like you like being able to find someone of like Shintaro Kagos or like a
26:30Kintoro Mirai's work right next to like
26:34The like a like a children's book you have got to be fucking kidding me
26:39You know, I mean, it's just like but I mean, it's it's massive now
26:42Like it it's nice to see that it's become such a big everybody
26:45I think I genuinely blame it on the pandemic that everybody is interested in anime and manga. It's like I want to connect to my kids
26:53Guys, I watched Cowboy Bebop. It's like
26:56Dork, I was like I was the dork
26:58I was like I used to be the door cuz there was like three of us
27:01It was just like what you watch cartoons nerd and now there's like this guy that's like guys. Have you watched one piece?
27:07It's like go sit down
27:09It's like
27:11Like at this point, you know
27:12But I love when my friends come and ask me about stuff sometimes because I'm like always I'm I'm always like a kind of gate
27:19Keep anime. I feel like anytime. I've made a suggestion for somebody watching anime
27:23They always come back like you're horrible and I'm like, no, I'm not I just know anime and manga
27:29I was like, you don't know anything about it. You thought it was real cute like Sailor Moon all the time. Yeah
27:34Mm-hmm
27:37You know
27:38Okay. Well on that happy note then the cat. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's been great with you. Thank you