Sawal Yeh Hai | Maria Memon | ARY News | 2nd June 2024

  • 3 months ago
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(Current Affairs)

Host:
- Maria Memon

Guests:
- Raoof Hasan PTI
- Raja Mohsin Ijaz (Reporter ARY News)
- Hasnaat Malik (Court Reporter)

Why does PTI have no confidence in CJP Qazi Faez Isa? - Rauf Hassan's Reaction

"Bani PTI Say Mulaqat Mein Tu Copy, Pen Bhi Nahi Le Jasaktay", Rauf Hassan's Big Statement

NAB Amendments Case Ki Live Broadcast Ka Maamla - Supreme Court Ka Hukum Nama Jari

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Transcript
00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Meem and I am here with Top Stories.
00:14 PTI has expressed its distrust on Chief Justice, who is going to become the full court tomorrow
00:19 regarding the specific cases.
00:20 Apart from this, we will talk about the political and legal strategy of the movement.
00:24 We will talk about this in the first segment of the program.
00:26 We will talk about the implications of not publishing the case of Naib Tarameem directly.
00:32 In the second segment of the program, we will talk about the court reporters who observe the entire process.
00:38 Will Donald Trump become the president of the United States from the jail?
00:41 The chances are that the president of the United States will win the election.
00:46 The chances are increasing.
00:49 We will talk about this in the last segment of the program.
00:51 Tariq-e-Insaf has issued an announcement. It has become a full court which is going to decide on specific cases.
00:58 But the Chief Justice has expressed his distrust on the announcement.
01:04 According to the announcement of the PTI Court Committee, the party has asked Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Issa to resign from PTI
01:11 and to separate himself from other cases of the party.
01:14 The announcement states that due to the clear conflict of interests, the Chief Justice has expressed his distrust on the PTI case and the right to a fair trial.
01:26 Two days ago, Hamid Khan was in my show and since he has a lot of interest in legal matters, I asked him if he had any objection to this.
01:39 He did not object to this announcement. Let's listen to what Hamid Khan has to say.
01:45 Tariq-e-Insaf is satisfied with the formation of the full court. What is your party's stance on this?
01:51 The party's stance is that the full court has been made. It is okay. It is appropriate.
01:58 In 2021, when the Chief Justice Gulzar was there, the context was a little different.
02:05 But today, the context is different. When the full court sits, the case is not on individual judges but on a collective court.
02:19 This is the first time that a different opinion has been given on a policy decision.
02:25 We have heard different opinions on the Tariq-e-Insaf Twitter handle. Let's listen to the views of the same party.
02:35 You have received the report of Hamidur Rehman Commission to play. Is there a limit? It is the report of your government. What did he betray?
02:43 This is not the message that the full salary should be given.
02:49 He does not have his phone. He cannot directly type Twitter. The message he had to send could not be fully presented.
02:58 And it was presented in a wrong way.
03:00 The misunderstanding that has happened will not happen again. And anything that will happen to Imran Khan will happen when Imran Khan's 100% knowledge is brought.
03:09 Khan sir has made this video and uploaded it. Of course. Khan sir has made this video. He is in jail. How can he upload the video?
03:15 He has uploaded it with his approval. I don't think so. Imran Khan is in jail. The party itself tweets with his approval and endorsement.
03:25 Rauf Hassan is the translator of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf. The video, the tweet, the statement is being endorsed by the party.
03:45 What is the message that you are going to send? What is the message that you are going to send? What is the message that you are going to send?
04:08 Let's move forward by making a point. First, we will talk about social media. But before that, I think you have expressed your distrust in the case of Qazi Faiz Isa.
04:19 Hamid Khan sir is not on board. He has a very clear opinion. He says that when there is a full court, it does not matter if there is a person.
04:26 It is a collective opinion. It is a collective wisdom. So, there is no harm in sitting with the Chief Justice.
04:30 In a collective decision, every person has a vote. Every person contributes to it. So, definitely, the collective decision is collected and collected by all the individuals.
04:44 So, Hamid Khan sir was not present in the court committee that day. He did not come. He did not attend. He may have some other business.
05:03 But, I think it is a good thing that Qazi Faiz Isa sir is on board. What is the logic behind this? Because, all the cases that we have seen so far, Qazi Faiz sir is on that bench.
05:13 And, legally, your legal team has never pleaded that he should be on that bench. So, why now?
05:17 First, where have we gone? We have requested Qazi sir, Justice of Islamabad High Court and Qazi sir to dissociate themselves. But, they have not done it.
05:26 I will answer the basic reason that you have asked. We feel that since we have become the Chief Justice, we have not got justice.
05:37 We were not getting justice even before that, for two years. But, there are two or three things that bother us a lot.
05:43 For example, we had moved a petition on 25th May regarding the 9th of May incidents. Today, it has been more than a year, but they have not even put it.
05:52 Similarly, we have not moved a petition on 8th February. So, our petitions are not being put.
05:58 Apart from this, their statements are unfortunately biased. And, I say this with utmost respect for the Office of the Chief Justice.
06:06 That, a kind of bias is reflected. So, they themselves should have refused themselves.
06:13 This is a very obvious thing. You are very vocal in this regard. I just want to know that, have you ever pleaded in written that your lawyer should not be a part of that bench in any case?
06:24 I have not seen it. Please tell me.
06:26 I have made statements many times.
06:28 But, you have never made a legal appeal in front of the court that Qazi sir should be separated.
06:33 No, not about the Chief Justice. But, we have requested him in written writing about the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court that he should refuse himself.
06:41 So, now that the full court has been formed and this case has come to light, I wanted to know that, what was the thought process behind this?
06:47 Earlier, there were small benches, there was no full court. But, you did not make a legal appeal in front of that.
06:53 Are you going to make a legal appeal tomorrow?
06:55 We had handed over this legal committee. After the court committee's decision, the legal committee's input was taken.
07:03 I do not know whether their input has been received till this moment or not. I think, it should be received today in any case that their case is pending tomorrow.
07:09 Who is heading the legal committee?
07:11 The legal committee is headed by Mukhil Phuket. Shibhi Faraz is sitting there. He is running it.
07:16 All the lawyers of our Bihar party are sitting there.
07:20 Mr. Hamid Khan is not in that.
07:23 One more point. It is obvious that this is not the first time that such statements have come forward about the judges.
07:31 In the past, PMLN has also run campaigns very clearly. Their pictures have also been published.
07:37 If a judge is removed from a bench due to a political conflict of interest, then it will be a disaster.
07:47 In the future, the cases of PMLN and People's Party will be heard. Everyone will say that they should not hear this case.
07:53 This is right. This tradition should be followed. Then, the benches will not be made.
07:57 The tradition should not be followed. I will be very honest with you. I do not feel that this is a good tradition.
08:01 Unfortunately, the decisions that have come and are coming, we feel that there is a bias in it.
08:08 There is a certain element of bias. That is a very credible reason for us to request that you do the necessary.
08:15 But it is a political conflict of interest.
08:17 No, it is not a political conflict. These are decisions. Decisions are not based on political foundations.
08:21 Decisions are based on law.
08:22 There is no financial conflict of interest. There is no relationship.
08:25 No, there is no such thing. It is a political conflict of interest.
08:31 The slant of decisions forces us to request them.
08:33 Then, in the future, every political party will say this. I want to decide this principally.
08:38 What do you think? Leaving aside the biases, if there is a case in the future,
08:42 Mariam BB, Nawaz Sharif will also stand up and say that I do not trust this judge.
08:46 So, this bench should not be made. Any political leader can hold a meeting and demand.
08:51 Then, it will become a tradition.
08:53 In the case of Iddat, the drama that took place that day,
08:56 this judge was requested to leave the case. He refused.
09:03 After that, I am sure he was subjected to pressure.
09:06 He had to make a decision.
09:08 But instead of making a decision, he asked his lawyer to talk.
09:11 He asked Mr. Khawar Maneka to talk.
09:14 During the hearing, he was expressed his distrust.
09:21 He said that he was separating himself.
09:23 So, this is a matter. It is a necessary thing.
09:26 We all knew what the judgment should be.
09:28 Because it was the same on the merit that he should quit.
09:30 In the past, PM LN was also saying that we knew that Saqib Nisar is there.
09:33 What judgment will come?
09:34 And such judgments used to come.
09:37 I just wanted to tell you that we have a lot of capacity to face adverse judgments.
09:44 We have a lot of resilience to absorb them.
09:51 But if one after the other, such judgments come,
09:54 where we see that there is an element of bias,
09:57 then I think it is our professional right to request that he should separate himself.
10:02 There are 13 judges sitting.
10:03 Make 12 judges or anyone else a judge.
10:06 We have no problem.
10:07 But if he refuses, then I think,
10:09 I mean, so far as we look, the way we look at it,
10:12 the demands of justice will be met in a better way.
10:15 This case was not televised.
10:18 The order that came before it,
10:20 there is a big logic in it.
10:22 In the technical issues, you can find faults or you can find flaws.
10:28 But the basic principle says that
10:30 no one should be given the opportunity to make political statements using the shoulder of the court.
10:37 Is this principally wrong?
10:40 Look, all kinds of cases go to court.
10:44 We have a lot of political cases.
10:47 I feel that it is a tradition.
10:49 I feel that it is a tradition.
10:51 Because at the end of the day,
10:53 politicians should sit down and solve the political cases.
10:55 Parliament is a forum.
10:56 But unfortunately, because of reasons,
10:59 which will take a lot of time to describe,
11:01 that is not the situation.
11:02 So everything that is going to land up in court,
11:05 should not be.
11:07 But political cases go to court.
11:10 And politics influences decisions.
11:13 But if a party leader is given the platform to present a political case,
11:19 in which he will also talk about politics,
11:21 should this tradition be established?
11:25 Because tomorrow it may be TLP, People's Party, PMLN.
11:29 Then this tradition will be correct.
11:31 Ideally speaking, the court should not use the shoulder of the court.
11:35 But the court should not be used.
11:37 This is my two-pronged approach.
11:40 The court should not be used.
11:42 One party or institution or another party or another institution.
11:46 At this time, a major perception is that the court judges,
11:50 who have received letters.
11:52 Six judges from Islamabad High Court,
11:54 and then you know, all the High Courts have also received responses.
11:58 They have received their input.
12:00 And everyone has conceded that there is pressure.
12:02 But the court should also adopt the mechanism,
12:04 that it should not be influenced by external pressure.
12:07 And it should decide according to the requirements of the law and the constitution.
12:10 Which unfortunately is not the case at the moment.
12:12 You are painting an ideal situation.
12:14 I totally agree with that.
12:15 It should not be.
12:16 But in that, the responsibility is the court's own.
12:19 The judge is not accepting that there is influence.
12:22 He repeatedly says that there is no influence on us.
12:24 And those who cannot weather this influence,
12:27 they say, you go home.
12:28 So I think that for the court, especially for the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
12:32 this is not a suitable approach.
12:34 A mechanism should be set in which you free the court from influence.
12:39 And so that the decision can be made according to the law and constitution.
12:41 That is our understanding, our party's.
12:43 Mine too, that they should not say that.
12:45 Okay, the tweet that was recently tweeted,
12:47 as a result of which you have been invited to the FIA.
12:51 Now you will go there.
12:52 At this time, because just help me understand.
12:55 At such a time, what was the logic behind this tweet?
12:59 Because one fine morning we woke up and saw that this tweet was being made.
13:02 Now what is its content?
13:04 That is a separate debate.
13:06 We will talk about that later.
13:08 But this timing and at such a time, tweeting.
13:11 What was the thought process behind this?
13:14 Thought process, basically, is that after two years,
13:19 a very dominant and a very proactive feeling has developed in the party.
13:25 And I am going to be again very frank with you.
13:27 That is that justice is not being done to us and we have no hope of getting justice.
13:32 Okay.
13:33 Consequently, they feel that we should use every avenue that is available to promote our narrative.
13:40 And we have the strongest avenue on social media so far.
13:43 And there is no doubt about it.
13:45 So that avenue was used.
13:47 I want to make one thing very clear.
13:49 Mr. Khan has come to jail.
13:50 When I go to jail, I cannot take this pen, I cannot do anything on this paper.
13:54 And no one else can do it.
13:56 Nothing.
13:57 Nothing can go inside.
13:58 If they have to deliver a book, it is delivered to the superintendent.
14:02 The superintendent delivers it to them.
14:04 This is our mechanism.
14:06 So now this finished product that has been made by social media,
14:09 Mr. Khan did not see it.
14:11 If there was a provision to see it, he would have seen it.
14:15 He did not do a quality assurance final.
14:17 He did not see it.
14:18 But he conveyed the message that on these lines, on the purdah wahid, we will tweet this video.
14:26 Because I do not control social media.
14:29 What I found out is that he said that we should promote the report of the Humud-e-Rehman Commission.
14:33 Okay.
14:34 People should know, people should be aware of what mistakes we have made in the past
14:38 so that they learn that we should not repeat these mistakes.
14:42 That is the message.
14:44 So on this message, people had their own interpretation that they gave.
14:48 Now this is not the final product.
14:50 This is my information that they did not see.
14:52 Right.
14:53 But when they found out that this video has been tweeted with this context, with this caption,
14:58 and a case has been made on it, he approves of it?
15:01 I have not gone yet.
15:03 I did not meet after that.
15:04 I will meet on Thursday and talk to him personally.
15:07 The core committee has on up it.
15:09 We are on up it to the extent of the core committee.
15:11 But I have a different opinion on that.
15:14 As soon as the tweet was made, some people took a side.
15:17 It seems that social media and Mr. Khan on one hand, and the active politics in the party,
15:21 their thinking is different.
15:23 Then social media and Mr. Khan's thinking came forward and the media came forward.
15:26 But the initial reaction was that this tweet was taken a little indifferently.
15:32 You came back to the core committee.
15:35 But the dominant opinion has decided that we should not do that.
15:42 But along with that, this particular portion, which is objectionable,
15:47 has been submitted to the legal committee.
15:49 And their input will come that what we have to do with it,
15:52 whether to keep it or remove it.
15:54 My personal opinion was that the sooner it can be done, the better.
15:58 So is it possible that this tweet can be deleted?
16:01 No, the legal committee's input will come and then the decision will be made.
16:06 It seems that social media is more dominant in your party.
16:09 When the criticism started and you all had to backtrack.
16:13 Is this correct?
16:16 Because social media and the statements they make,
16:19 they say that we have run this campaign.
16:22 So their opinion, their thinking, their branding, their whatever.
16:26 Social media has been a very important foundation for PTI.
16:30 And especially in the last two years, when all the avenues have been closed on us.
16:34 I myself was away from the media for 6-7 months.
16:37 Because I had an unstated, undeclared, unwritten ban on me.
16:41 So after that, we felt that the shrinkage of space had increased a lot.
16:44 Consequently, the social media platform expanded us more,
16:48 became more influential, and became more relevant for us.
16:52 But their influence has increased.
16:54 Maybe in the core committee or in your decisions, they are more dominant.
16:57 This is a correct assessment. We have seen this many times.
17:00 We saw in Mr. Barwat's case, there was so much pressure.
17:02 We saw on this issue.
17:04 There was some other talk in the beginning.
17:06 But since social media had uploaded, they stood their ground.
17:08 And they had their way eventually.
17:10 Social media has a very potent role in the party.
17:14 It has been positive.
17:16 They have contributed a lot to PTI's position at the moment.
17:21 And they have a big role in maintaining our political lifeline.
17:27 So we cannot diminish their role.
17:30 But we will have to see.
17:32 If the legal committee's input comes in, I think it will be great.
17:35 So that they can give their comment on this.
17:37 But the way you are doing it, you have seen a gap in this.
17:40 Mr. Khan is in jail.
17:42 They cannot approve his content.
17:44 Eventually, they can convey an idea.
17:46 They can interpret it and tweet it.
17:49 And then your party gets FIA notices.
17:51 This is a gap.
17:53 Is there a possibility of miscommunication?
17:56 Does anyone else have the authority to package the message?
18:02 And if someone has to claim tomorrow, can Mr. Imran Khan distance himself from it?
18:07 These were not exact my words.
18:09 Look, there is a big issue of communication.
18:12 I cannot deny this.
18:14 We have a complaint that there is an issue of communication.
18:16 We meet once a week.
18:18 When you go without a pen and paper, you have to remember what the person says.
18:23 Many times, we don't remember.
18:25 Then we go out and six people gather.
18:27 We say, what did he say? What did Mr. Khan say?
18:30 He said this, he said that.
18:31 In spite of that, there is always a possibility of miscommunication.
18:36 When people go and talk to them, they have nothing.
18:40 So we have requested the jail authorities.
18:42 We have also asked the court to provide us with facilities to improve our communication level.
18:48 We can take pen and paper inside.
18:50 Check it.
18:51 In spite of that, there is nothing in it.
18:52 Come back and check what we have written.
18:54 So how did you get an interview with Mehdi Hassan?
18:57 This is a very interesting thing.
18:58 There were eight questions.
18:59 All this was there.
19:00 Did Mr. Mehdi Hassan tell this question to any of you?
19:04 He did not tell us.
19:06 We cannot do this.
19:07 Because when we meet, the political committee meets.
19:09 So who did you tell that?
19:12 We have a barrier of such a big glass in front of him.
19:14 So did you give it to a lawyer?
19:15 Yes, most probably.
19:16 He went from some side.
19:17 And then the lawyer then took those answers in his mind.
19:20 Absolutely.
19:21 And then he went ahead and typed it.
19:23 That is the only way.
19:24 There is no other way.
19:25 I mean, you cannot hit them up there.
19:27 I go, I see, we have search in three or four places.
19:30 I am sorry, I do not even want to talk about the fact, you know, how the search is done.
19:34 So it is mediating.
19:36 Thank you very much, Mr. Aroop.
19:38 It was very interesting conversation.
19:40 Is Mr. Tehsir going to legally challenge this tomorrow?
19:42 No, he is saying that our legal committee will decide it.
19:45 We will go on break.
19:46 When we come back, we will talk.
19:47 We will have court reporters with us.
19:49 What happened in the court?
19:52 And principally, what is the agenda of the case of the special institutions that is going ahead tomorrow?
19:58 We will talk on the break.
19:59 Stay with us.
20:00 Welcome back.
20:05 We have with us Mr. Raja Mohsin Ejaz and Mr. Hassan Malik.
20:08 Mr. Rauf Hassan, who is involved with Tehreek-e-Insaaf, has said that he is going to challenge.
20:14 But will he challenge legally or not?
20:16 Tehreek-e-Insaaf has not decided on this.
20:18 We will also talk about the participation of the Chief Justice in this bench.
20:24 But along with that, the decision of the Naib Tarameem case, the direct investigation, has come forward.
20:27 Let us quickly see what he said.
20:30 We will also talk about that.
20:31 The Supreme Court has issued a written order for the court proceedings of the Naib Tarameem Intra Court Appeals on the 30th of May.
20:37 According to the order, under the supervision of Chief Justice Qazi Faiziza,
20:41 the Panchdukhni Bench has withdrawn the request for the direct investigation of the KP government.
20:47 According to the Supreme Court order, Justice Atar Manohar Lallah has disagreed with the majority decision.
20:52 The KP government has submitted a request that the direct investigation of this case should not be carried out in comparison to other cases.
20:59 The Supreme Court has said in the written order that the KP government's request is contrary to the facts.
21:04 Because the direct investigation of very few cases has been shown.
21:07 The Supreme Court has stated that some cases have been shown directly, but later,
21:11 the requests for justice have been stopped by keeping in mind the requirements.
21:15 No legal point has been stated in the request of the KP government.
21:18 How is it being violated from their fundamental rights?
21:21 According to the written order, the direct judicial investigation can be used for point scoring for personal political purposes.
21:27 This possibility cannot be rejected.
21:32 Mr. Hasnath, let's start with you.
21:34 First of all, what is the justice system that Mr. Rahul Fasan has mentioned?
21:37 We are thinking whether to legally challenge this or not, in the participation of the Chief Justice.
21:41 He has spoken about this repeatedly, even in statements.
21:46 He has not taken a written plea in any case that the Chief Justice should be removed from this bench.
21:52 Now, on this occasion, when there is a full court, do you think that he is going to do this?
21:57 What is the information? What is your assessment?
21:59 I don't think so. The lawyers of the Sunni Ijtihad Council, Faisal Siddiqi, have made it very clear that
22:05 I will not object to any judge.
22:09 And when he makes an objection, other judges also reject it.
22:18 They don't like it. We have seen this in the past.
22:21 So, after their opinion, it seems that the lawyer will not object.
22:26 This is just a statement.
22:29 The Chief Justice Faisal will have his own opinion.
22:35 But we see that in the past, the People's Party used to say about Mr. Iftikhar Choudhary that
22:40 he is very much anti- or opposed to this.
22:43 Many decisions were made.
22:44 In fact, the People's Party was wiped out in Punjab.
22:46 Mr. Iftikhar Choudhary's observations and remarks were broadcast on TV.
22:51 Apart from this, there was a complaint against Mr. Saqib Nisar.
22:56 But there has never been a complaint against him.
23:00 Especially for the Chief Justice.
23:02 Mr. Umar Atta Bandyal used to be mistrusted and it was said that he should be made a full court.
23:06 Now, in one case, the Chief Justice, Qazi Faisal or the committee has made him a full court.
23:11 I don't think that the opinion of one judge is right.
23:14 If he is the Chief Justice, then it is not necessary that you object at this time.
23:19 I think that there will be no objection.
23:22 But one thing is very clear.
23:24 Whatever is happening since the last 6 months, the factual facts of the cases,
23:28 that is fine to some extent.
23:30 Okay, his objection is fine.
23:33 But will he legally put it in front of the court?
23:36 Mr. Hassanat is not seeing this.
23:38 When he was not a full court, even then the PTI never tried to find out about any case
23:43 that he has requested legally or not.
23:46 But the objection on full court, is there any weight on it?
23:50 Because everyone is united in this.
23:53 The news of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf regarding the objection,
23:57 was not about the objection on full court.
23:59 It was about the objection regarding the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
24:03 But the people I have talked to,
24:06 if there was going to be an objection,
24:09 then it has been decided in this regard.
24:11 And it has been decided from a high level in PTI that the objection will not be made.
24:15 But everyone is right that the advocate of Faisal Siddiqui,
24:18 who is representing the Sunni Atheist Council,
24:21 he has also conveyed to the Sunni Atheist Council or PTI that
24:24 I will not make any objection on any judge.
24:28 But in the past, we have seen objections and judges being raised.
24:33 When the reference was made against the current Chief Justice Qazi Faiz-e-Issa,
24:37 he, at that time there were two judges of the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
24:40 Justice Ijaz-ul-Ahsan and Justice Sardar Tariq Masood,
24:43 they were objected and both of them were not heard in the case.
24:47 And even then, the full court was there, but minus those two judges.
24:51 But these are internal matters of the court,
24:53 when a political statement is made,
24:55 and as a result, someone is told to accuse,
24:57 this happens in Pakistan.
24:59 The government changes, the faces change,
25:01 but this tension remains of the judiciary and administration.
25:04 Look, we have seen that recently,
25:06 especially if you see that before the election,
25:09 the kind of back-to-back decisions were made,
25:11 whether you take the decision of election of the mark,
25:14 or you take the decision of level playing field,
25:16 or you take the decision of the human rights,
25:19 the requests that came in the Supreme Court of Pakistan,
25:21 you see them,
25:22 so these are the same kind of decisions,
25:24 and we have seen that the same kind of political group,
25:27 you can call them victims, or targets, or you can call them the impressors.
25:33 So they have many reasons,
25:35 one is that the reason that the constitutional amendment
25:39 will be beneficial to the people,
25:41 that is one factor.
25:42 Apart from that, if you look at the past,
25:45 that can be a very solid point of objection.
25:48 But that is a political objection, not a legal objection.
25:51 It is a legal objection.
25:52 Former Chief Justice Gulzar Ahmed has taken a decision,
25:55 in which he has said that he should not hear the case
25:58 of the former Prime Minister or the current chairman.
26:01 And even if the Sunni Atheist Council says this,
26:04 but this is related to them,
26:06 and all the seats of the Sunni Atheist Council are in the National Assembly
26:09 and the Subai Assemblies,
26:10 and that decision was certainly challenged,
26:13 but that decision has not been decided for the society yet.
26:16 And on that, the Supreme Court has a decision,
26:20 the decision of the then Chief Justice Gulzar Ahmed,
26:23 that is one reason too.
26:24 So a legal reason is also very important,
26:26 I think they have things,
26:28 but because they make legal acts of wisdom,
26:31 all the parties,
26:33 I do not think that the PTI will object to the act of wisdom.
26:37 We have to see whether they will make a legal act of wisdom
26:39 or a political act of wisdom.
26:40 Both are different.
26:41 In the court,
26:42 the case of NAB,
26:45 the case of direct publication,
26:48 the court decision,
26:49 the biggest point,
26:50 technically there are many other issues,
26:52 questions can be raised on the structuring,
26:55 but the basic point is that
26:58 the direct judicial proceedings should be done
27:01 with the political objective and the point should not be used for scoring.
27:06 That is why the court will not give its shoulder,
27:08 if I paraphrase the whole issue.
27:12 So principally, is this wrong?
27:15 Look, we are seeing that after the Laiz Movement,
27:18 when the case of NAB was brought up,
27:20 the Supreme Court has regulated the politics.
27:23 The Prime Minister has sent home,
27:25 and the proceedings of the Supreme Court,
27:27 one group has benefited and the other has suffered losses.
27:30 These things are open secret in front of everyone.
27:32 And the PTI has benefited a lot for 6 years,
27:34 in the Supreme Court,
27:35 if you see from 2017 to 2023.
27:38 After 2023, they are getting tough time,
27:40 in the Supreme Court,
27:41 even on their genuine things,
27:43 they are not getting the justice.
27:44 As far as the points are concerned,
27:47 if you see Justice Qazi Faiza,
27:49 in his tenure,
27:50 Bhutto reference was decided,
27:53 Bilawar Bhutto Zardari used to come,
27:55 there was live streaming,
27:57 the narrative of People's Party was big,
27:59 Nawaz Sharif's tenure,
28:00 Nelly ended,
28:01 Nunli benefited,
28:02 he fought the election.
28:04 So I think,
28:05 if a group,
28:06 this has to be finished in the Supreme Court,
28:10 that many groups get more from their narrative,
28:15 they get the narrative and some don't.
28:20 This is absolutely right.
28:21 And secondly,
28:22 why did the order have to be issued so soon?
28:26 It is being said that there is no sign of Judge Sattar Minnalla.
28:30 And the order was issued on the week before the sign.
28:34 And the wording used,
28:36 four judges have written,
28:38 not a single last point,
28:41 any judgment or side has been done,
28:43 no law has been cited,
28:46 whatever the observation is,
28:48 it seems like a section officer dictates the order.
28:52 I think,
28:53 the four judges who wrote it together,
28:56 could have been written better.
28:59 And for no reason,
29:01 such things were written in it,
29:03 which seems like,
29:05 the PDI has this impression,
29:07 that this is our side,
29:09 or the things of prejudice,
29:11 are due to this,
29:13 when these observations are made unnecessarily.
29:15 Rest, Imran Khan does not,
29:17 this is one thing in that.
29:18 Because Imran Khan,
29:20 is a Mudai in the case,
29:22 so obviously he is relevant,
29:23 we should listen to him.
29:25 But in a broader perspective,
29:27 if we talk about this,
29:28 tomorrow, another political leader will be presented,
29:30 and that is obvious,
29:31 with the law,
29:32 that will be a political statement.
29:33 In this case also,
29:34 there is a political angling.
29:36 So the court has decided,
29:38 that we do not want to make our platform,
29:40 a party of those statements,
29:42 those statements.
29:46 Madam, look, all these things,
29:48 I could have understood it personally,
29:50 but at that time,
29:52 when all these things are in the court,
29:54 when the lawyer of KPK government said,
29:56 that it should be shown directly,
29:58 then they should have listened also.
30:00 Let us see what evidence they give,
30:02 then you take the answer from the government of Wifaq,
30:04 let us see what they say in general,
30:06 after that the court,
30:08 would reach to its conclusion.
30:10 Ok, we have seen,
30:11 that if you are saying,
30:13 that you have not allowed any political statement,
30:15 to be used in the court,
30:17 then you could have seen,
30:19 that you could have stopped it,
30:21 or put a delay,
30:23 different things could have been decided,
30:25 but if you see this order,
30:27 then I did not see any concrete thing in this order,
30:31 and unfortunately,
30:33 I have seen this also,
30:35 in the last few years,
30:37 without any evidence,
30:39 we have seen that,
30:41 decisions have started to be made on requests,
30:43 and you should have listened to it,
30:45 and then you could have given any decision,
30:47 before this we have seen the election case,
30:49 in the 90 day election,
30:51 the judge who was up,
30:53 later said that we have removed the requests,
30:55 so the decisions that have started to be made,
30:57 without listening to it,
30:59 I think this is not a good thing for the justice system of Pakistan,
31:01 and it is not appropriate also,
31:03 you can give any decision,
31:05 but you should have listened to it,
31:07 and then you should have decided about it.
31:09 Is there going to be a controversial note in this?
31:11 Definitely,
31:13 because in this order,
31:15 it is written about them also,
31:17 that the two judges,
31:19 who had to decide about the live news,
31:21 they also did not complete their work,
31:23 but there is information that,
31:25 they did complete their work,
31:27 and on the other hand,
31:29 some work was still left to be done.
31:31 Thank you very much,
31:33 Raja Bose Nijaz,
31:35 and Hassanat Malik,
31:37 both of them think that,
31:39 there will be no written request,
31:41 or written objection,
31:43 from the Chief Justice,
31:45 regarding the head of this bench,
31:47 and also the notice,
31:49 the order that has come in front of the court,
31:51 they say that it is very rushed,
31:53 and the legal logic is not being found.
31:55 We will go on break,
31:57 and when we come back,
31:59 we will talk about,
32:01 the next president of America,
32:03 who is still in the race to become president,
32:05 we will talk about Donald Trump,
32:07 and we will talk about,
32:09 the next president of America,
32:11 who is still in the race to become president,
32:13 we will talk about,
32:15 the next president of America,
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32:27 the next president of America,
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35:55 we will talk about,
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36:01 we will talk about,
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