Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer hold their first TV debate since the prime minister called a General Election. On the ITV programme, they tackled key issues including immigration, the Israel-Hamas war and the cost of living crisis. Rishi Sunak refused to rule out withdrawing the UK from the ECHR over the Rwanda bill and the Labour leader attacked the prime minister's claim that NHS waiting lists are going down. Report by Brooksl. Like us on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/itn and follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/itn
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00:00 We are live in Salford for the very first time in this election. It is
00:06 Sunak versus Starmer, the ITV debate. This election is all about a choice.
00:12 More of the chaos and division we have seen for the last 14 years, or
00:17 turning the page and rebuilding with Labour. Beyond raising your taxes
00:22 and raiding your pensions, no-one knows what Labour would actually do.
00:27 But you know what I would do. I will cut your taxes, protect your pension
00:33 and reduce immigration. In the last few years I found it very difficult
00:37 to make ends meet and the money simply does not go far enough. All I do
00:41 is work to live. I don't think you actually understand how this is for
00:46 people like me. So what can you do about that? Thank you very much
00:50 indeed, Paula, for your question. Rishi Sunak. Paula, I know how much
00:55 of a strain the last few years have put on your family finances, the
00:59 family finances of everyone in our country. That is why my priority has
01:04 always been to do what I can to support you. That started with bold
01:07 action, like the furlough scheme during the pandemic, and more
01:10 recently my clear plan to bring inflation back to normal. Now our
01:15 economy is growing again, wages are rising and crucially we are able to
01:20 now start cutting your taxes. I'm not going to pretend that Ukraine and
01:24 Covid hasn't made things worse, but this government has lost control.
01:29 Liz Trust crashed the economy. They made it worse here than in other
01:32 countries. It is people like you that are paying the price. If a
01:36 government loses control of the economy, as they have, it is working
01:40 people that pay the price. I'm a cancer survivor, my son is a nurse, I
01:46 recently lost a cousin who was waiting for surgery. No-one is brave
01:52 enough to tell us the truth. The NHS is broken. Be honest with us. How
01:58 long will it take to fix it? Thank you very much indeed. Janet Kirstein.
02:04 Janet, I'm really sorry to hear about your own position and that of
02:08 your relatives. My wife works in the NHS in one of the big London
02:13 hospitals. My mum was a nurse, my sister was a nurse, so the DNA runs
02:17 through my DNA. You can imagine just how angry I am that it has been
02:21 broken, and it has been broken exactly as you describe. It is
02:25 unforgivable what has happened to the NHS. We have put record funding in,
02:29 we are training more doctors and nurses, we are doing more checks and
02:32 scans. What I want you to know is that the NHS is safe in my hands. I
02:36 will always stand up for it to give you and everyone else the peace of
02:39 mind that it will be there for you and your families when you need it. We
02:42 are now making progress, the waiting lists are coming down. What Kirstein
02:45 did not mention to you, which you did, Julie... They are now 7.5 million
02:50 and he says they are coming down. They are now coming down. 7.2 million
02:56 when you said you would get them down, and now 7.5 million. I would
03:00 like you to explain how they are coming down. They were coming down
03:03 from where they were when they were hired. They are now on their way
03:07 down. They are down. Because the NHS was impacted by industrial action.
03:13 If it wasn't for that... Half a million appointments would have been
03:17 saved. It is somebody else's fault. If you had loved ones on a long
03:21 waiting list for surgery, if you felt that was the only way forward, would
03:26 you use private healthcare? Yes. Kirstein? No. Politicians have broken
03:33 promises on immigration. Why should I trust either of you to do anything
03:39 about such large numbers of people risking their lives to cross the
03:43 channel to gain access to the UK illegally? Thank you very much
03:48 indeed, Stephen. Rishi Sunak? Stephen, immigration is too high. We will
03:54 need to take bold action to bring it down. Whether that is legal
03:58 migration, where we are going to introduce a new legal cap to
04:01 guarantee it will come down every year, or the boats which you
04:04 mentioned. We got the numbers down last year by a third and now we have
04:08 a deterrent ready to go. Migrants have been detained, the flights will go
04:12 in July, but only if I am your Prime Minister. We need to smash the
04:15 gangs that are running this vile trade, making a huge amount of money,
04:19 putting some of the most vulnerable people in boats across the channel.
04:23 They are making a fortune. Before I was a politician, Stephen, I was the
04:27 director of public prosecutions. I worked with the police and
04:30 prosecutors in other countries to bring down terrorist gangs running
04:33 across borders. I do not believe it is impossible to bring down these
04:36 gangs. If your Rwanda plan is blocked by the courts, and will this
04:40 appear in your manifesto, that you would remove the UK from the
04:43 European Convention on Human Rights, is that part of your plan? I am
04:48 crystal clear. I believe all our plans are compliant with our
04:51 international obligations, but if I am forced to choose between securing
04:55 our borders and our country's security, or a foreign court, I will
04:59 choose our country's security every single time. I am worried about the
05:03 UK's lack of leadership on the world stage. I want our PM to be strong
05:07 enough to take a stand, even when it is hard. What should happen next to
05:12 stop these awful scenes we are seeing in Gaza? The situation in Gaza is
05:18 intolerable. It is catastrophic. Tens of thousands of people have been
05:23 killed, a disproportionate number of women and children. What we need now
05:28 is a ceasefire, a cessation of the hostilities straightaway. Right now,
05:33 you will see that the US have put a deal on the table which we strongly
05:36 support, together with our allies, to bring an immediate end to the
05:39 hostilities, release hostages, get more aid in, and then build towards a
05:43 lasting settlement with a two-state solution. Like many young people, I
05:47 completed my final years of sixth form under Covid restrictions, started
05:51 university under them, and have had to deal with a cost-of-living crisis,
05:55 a housing crisis, and an unstable world. What future can you offer my
05:59 generation, and when will we become your priority? So we would ensure
06:03 that those jobs are there for you for the future, that you have the
06:06 opportunity to get on. We will build the houses so you don't have to be
06:11 30-something, 35, 36, before you own a house under this government. What I
06:15 won't be doing is sending you on national service, some sort of
06:20 British-made army, which would be what the Prime Minister would say. We
06:24 will introduce a modern form of national service, and I think it will
06:28 be transformational for young people in our country, giving them the
06:31 skills and opportunities they need to succeed in life, fostering a
06:34 culture of service in our society, bringing it together, but also
06:37 strengthening our resilience and security for the future, and I think
06:40 it is going to be something that is incredibly positive. But beyond that,
06:43 I want you to have financial security, so when you get that job, when you
06:47 for that house, we make it easier.