Regional Panel: Thriving in Trade Together - Navigating the Cross-Border ESG Landscape
Regional panel explores strategies for businesses to flourish amid diverse cross-border ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) standards at the The Asia ESG Positive Impact Consortium (A-EPIC) on June 21, 2024.
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00:00So once again, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to hand you over to the panellists.
00:04So let's give them a big round of applause once again. Terima kasih.
00:09Thank you. This is very early. So that's very good. We'll get this done very quickly.
00:15Welcome to all of you and thank you for staying back for this.
00:18As the MC announced, this is a cross-border conversation.
00:24So we've got panellists from Malaysia and Philippines.
00:29And Surin is going to represent the whole of ASEAN.
00:33So let me begin. The other point is we want to talk about ESG,
00:38but not ESG in a vacuum, but ESG in a sense of cross-border trade.
00:45That's a big area for you.
00:49Anyway, in 2023, intra-ASEAN trade reached a trillion US dollars.
00:56It's about a quarter of the entire region's trade.
01:00So that means all the countries in ASEAN trading amongst themselves is about a trillion US dollars.
01:07And it makes up about one quarter of total trade of the entire region with the entire world.
01:13So it's a big, big number. So I'm going to start off this conversation around this aspect.
01:20We'll start off with Mr Surin. Why? We had a preparation before this.
01:25He does work across the whole of Southeast Asia,
01:28so I thought perhaps it's good to start with him to look across Southeast Asia.
01:32Mr Surin is from Pro Forest. So perhaps, Mr Surin, if you don't mind,
01:36a short introduction of yourself and your organisation.
01:39The question I have is the overview of the commodity agriculture supply chain.
01:44So we're going to focus on supply chain and trade in this particular panel,
01:49especially around palm oil, rubber, coconut sugar across ASEAN,
01:53the sustainability landscape and how it has changed over the years.
01:57Mr Surin.
01:58Thank you, Mr Chow.
02:00So I'm Surin Suksuan. I'm the Southeast Asia Regional Technical Advisor.
02:07And Pro Forest is a mission-driven, independent organisation.
02:13It focuses on supporting businesses in ensuring that their production
02:21and sourcing of agricultural commodities is done in a responsible and sustainable manner.
02:29And in Southeast Asia, we are focusing on the key commodities in this region,
02:33namely palm oil, sugar, rubber, coconut and a few other minor commodities as well.
02:40Globally, we work on other commodities, including cattle, soy and so on,
02:44but we'll focus mainly on Southeast Asia for today.
02:48Now, just to give you an overview, because it's a very complex issue,
02:52talking about commodity supply chains,
02:54I guess you can say that the ESG agenda in this region
02:59can broadly be divided into three phases, if you like.
03:04In the early days, I would say, coming from global development agenda and so on,
03:12most of the countries in the region had already been putting in place regulatory framework
03:19to support the sustainable development of each country.
03:25So, for example, countries putting in place requirements for EIAs
03:31and river buffer zone conservation, all that.
03:36So, all that has already been going on for some time.
03:41And later on, after the Rio conference, then we have the rise of certification schemes,
03:54especially within the commodity supply chain.
03:57So, for the forestry sector, for example, you have the FSC,
04:02or the Forest Stewardship Council certification.
04:05For palm oil, we have the RSPO.
04:08For sugar, we have Pond Sucro and so on.
04:12So, that has been in the voluntary space and it was demand-driven, consumer-driven
04:20and also downstream supply chain-driven.
04:25So, the big companies are saying we want to source sustainably.
04:30The producers then have to voluntarily comply
04:33so that they can get on board the supply chain of these big companies.
04:38But the third wave that we're seeing now is getting, I guess, more serious for everyone
04:44because it's not voluntary anymore and the regulators are coming into the picture
04:48with ESG requirements and it's moving in various sectors.
04:54I would say that in Southeast Asia, probably the finance sector is the key driver
04:59because when they are saying to companies that,
05:01hey, if you want to access our finance and you actually have to comply with our ESG requirements,
05:07then the companies are going to really pull up their socks and get down to business.
05:12So, maybe I'll stop there for now. Thanks.
05:16Thank you, Mr. Suri. You're describing to us the phases of change across ASEAN.
05:22First, just the framework, then certification, but now really main business.
05:27And it's good that finance play a key role and I know a number of friends here from banks
05:33and they play a key role to kind of drive that. Very good.
05:36We're going to change gear a bit, if you don't mind, to Philippines.
05:39Ms. Jenica just flew in yesterday specifically for this.
05:43So, thank you for this. Jenica, maybe you could introduce yourself.
05:47And also, your area of work is biodiversity.
05:50So, how do we integrate biodiversity into ESG framework and what companies can do to address that?
05:58I just heard this now, right?
06:00SIME Derby Property is the urban diversity partner for this particular consortium.
06:06So, perhaps your view? First, introduce yourself.
06:09Yes, thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be part of this panel.
06:12Good afternoon, everybody. I am Jenica Masigan.
06:16And my background, as I said, is conservation biology and ecology.
06:21I used to say that my stakeholders are mostly non-humans.
06:27But putting that aside, so the dream really is to be able to find a safe operating space
06:35for nature and people to thrive.
06:39And that's what we do in our organization.
06:41So, I'm from Center for Conservation Innovations Philippines Incorporated or CCIPH.
06:47And our goal at CCIPH is to identify solutions and innovations in order to achieve nature-positive impacts.
06:59Because we at CCIPH, we believe that restoration or the resilience of our ecosystems are crucial
07:10to our overall resilience as a community and as a species ourselves.
07:16So, most of the work that we do involves managing natural resources
07:23and then providing technical and scientific backstop to inform policies,
07:30inform decision-makings of different sectors at various scales from local communities
07:37to local government units, national agencies, and even the corporate and private sector.
07:44It's a long introduction, isn't it?
07:47Okay, now going to the question about how biodiversity is integrated into ESG.
07:54Well, I mean, in recent years, corporations have increasingly recognized
08:02the importance of biodiversity and nature in corporate reporting and responsible investing.
08:10And the thing is, biodiversity, it's a huge part, it's a huge component of your natural capital.
08:18Yeah?
08:19So, your natural capital, that's the stock, that's the supply in your supply chain.
08:24It includes the renewable and non-renewable resources from plants to animals, soil, air, water.
08:35It also includes the services that you can generate from nature like your carbon,
08:41carbon sequestration, your air filtration, pollination services.
08:45So, all of that makes up your natural capital.
08:49And so, when it comes to strategic sustainability planning,
08:55you really have to, companies have to account for possible risk associated to biodiversity loss
09:05as well as the equivalent economic, possible economic impacts to businesses.
09:14And the thing is, with ESG frameworks, the existing ones,
09:19even when you're looking at the environmental factor, most of them are a bit human-centric, so to speak.
09:28It's a bit human-centric.
09:30So, that would lead to an oversight on the intrinsic value of nature.
09:39So, I suppose it's about time to put biodiversity at the centre of corporate reporting.
09:49Very good.
09:50I'm going to just put Saem Dabi Property on notice.
09:54Since they're going to be the biodiversity partner,
09:56later I'm going to ask a question to the team from Saem Dabi Property on that particular topic.
10:01But anyway, thank you.
10:02But I like your point.
10:05I don't know about you, some of us who are from this part of, we are very near Bukit Kiara, right?
10:10So, some of us go for hiking and morning walk.
10:12So, that is the, back to your point, it's the, your word, natural capital that we need to take care of.
10:20And that's the source of many things to come.
10:22Thank you.
10:23Sorry.
10:24Go ahead, go ahead.
10:25All right.
10:26So, now we're going to come back to Malaysia.
10:28There's a person sitting next to me who is very important,
10:32kind of working in an organisation that helps trading between Malaysia and many countries,
10:38the Deputy CEO of Martrade.
10:40So, Mr. Abubakar, maybe you can introduce yourself.
10:42And a question, if you don't mind, there's something that you are working on called
10:46Greening Export Supply Chain Initiative.
10:49Perhaps, what's that?
10:50First, introduce yourself and what's that and how important that is for us here.
10:54Yeah.
10:55Thank you, Mr. Chow, and esteemed panellists.
10:58Good afternoon, everyone.
10:59My name is Abubakar Yusof.
11:01I'm the Deputy CEO and also the CDO of Martrade.
11:07Martrade is basically a national trade promotion organisation of Malaysia under the purview
11:15of our Ministry of Investment, Trade and Industry, MITI.
11:21And we were established – I'm doing a lot, a bit promo of Martrade.
11:27We were established in 1993, more than 30 years ago.
11:31And our mandate is basically to facilitate and promote Malaysia enterprises to the global arena
11:39for both merchandise and services.
11:43And we have our headquarter here, not far from Bukit Kiara, not far from here, about
11:4810 minutes from here.
11:50And we have six regional offices in Malaysia as well as 49 global trade offices around the world.
12:00And I just want to – because my perspective is basically on business and international trade.
12:08And later I will go to the Greening Export Supply Chain Initiative because Martrade,
12:14we have embarked on our ESG and sustainability initiative aggressively just before COVID in 2019.
12:27And we have launched our sustainable action values for exporters because we are basically
12:35helping our enterprises to export and to establish their global footprints everywhere in the world.
12:43Malaysia, for your information, we are exporting to more than 200 international markets.
12:51So you can see that Malaysia actually is one of the global trading nations.
12:58And due to the importance of international trade and export and due to the global megatrends
13:07that we know, everyone knows about the urgency with regard to ESG and sustainability,
13:13we have to do something about preparing our local enterprises to be able to comply
13:21with the international ESG regulatory requirements.
13:26And this is where we have embarked on Greening Export Supply Chain Initiative.
13:32It's basically to cater for also the needs for us to address the gaps in the ecosystem of sustainability and ESG.
13:46And we have launched our five-year national trade blueprint in 2021.
13:53And part of our blueprint is basically on sustainability and ESG.
13:58And in fact, to reflect our aggressiveness, we have established an ESG unit in Madrid
14:06to look into specifically how we can facilitate our enterprises to be able to immerse into
14:15global ESG requirements.
14:18And this initiative, Global Export Supply Chain Initiative, is an initiative that we
14:29work together with various stakeholders, be it public as well as the private sector,
14:36the industry players and stakeholders.
14:39And for your information, in Malaysia, we have 1.2 million registered businesses and
14:4797.4% are micro, small and medium enterprises, and the rest are mid-tier and local large corporations.
14:57Of course, we have our multinational companies here.
15:00But our mandate is basically, because our main stakeholders for international trade
15:09and export is basically the micro, small and medium enterprises.
15:12So, I think if you ask them about ESG or sustainability, their awareness level is still very, very low.
15:22And I think this is where we need to actually converge among the micro, small and medium
15:31enterprises, the mid-tier companies, as well as the local large corporations to support
15:37each other.
15:38And this is part of this initiative framework.
15:41And we have another program called Mid-Tier Companies Development Program.
15:48And under this program, we have benchmarking initiative, where the mid-tier companies
15:54supporting the micro, small and medium enterprises.
15:56Because why?
15:57These mid-tier companies, they are exporters and they have a pool of domestic supply chain
16:02in Malaysia that comprises, actually, the micro, small and medium enterprises.
16:08So, for the exporter, the mid-tier companies to be able to comply with their global customers'
16:15requirements on ESG, they also need to educate and guide and coach their supply chain to
16:23be able to also embrace and adopt ESG requirements, based on the global customers' needs.
16:34Thank you.
16:35So, that's your Greening Export Supply Chain Initiative.
16:38Very good.
16:39So, the focus is across all Malaysian corporates, but your point about educating, awareness,
16:45and that perhaps where Asia ESG Positive Impact Consortium, the one that was launched today,
16:50would be helpful, right, Encik Abubakar?
16:52Yeah?
16:53Very helpful.
16:54All right.
16:55So, maybe we just want to go back to that particular point about biodiversity as the
16:58natural capital, Jenica.
17:00What are the key risks?
17:02I think all of us here, and I understand the audience today are not just from Malaysia,
17:06but also Philippines and Indonesia.
17:07What's the key risk of not addressing the biodiversity adequately, and how do we make
17:13sure it's incorporated into the supply chain appropriately, Jenica?
17:18Well, most of biodiversity degradation occur in specific supply chain, right?
17:27That's the sad truth to it.
17:30You know, food production, beverage production, transportation, construction, even fashion
17:38and retail.
17:40So, the reason for this is because the entirety of their economic values rely solely on natural
17:51resources.
17:53So, when the nature loses its capacity to be able to provide these services like pollination
18:01services, for example, and even air filtration or water regulation services, then the whole
18:08sector faces disruption to it.
18:13So, it is therefore important to be able to recognize its role in supply chain, and to
18:21be able to identify how to manage and mitigate potential biodiversity loss, because it's
18:28going to go both ways.
18:31You will be affected, businesses will be affected by scarcity of resources, for example, and
18:37at the same time, your business can also have impacts, damaging impacts on biodiversity.
18:46So, I suppose for companies, one thing that they can do is maybe consider expanding their
18:53materiality assessments to look at possible biodiversity risk-related opportunities, and
19:02then identify what are possible drivers, identify how to mitigate these drivers, follow the
19:11mitigation hierarchy.
19:12I'm sure, Mr. Serene, you're familiar as a fellow high conservation value practitioner.
19:18Identify what to avoid, what to minimize, if it can be avoided or minimized, how to
19:25restore it, and then the last possible solution is maybe look at offsetting, if it's possible.
19:34Yeah.
19:36So, expand the materiality limit computation, look at the possible drivers, look at mitigation,
19:46and I'm hoping maybe Mr. Serene can take it from there.
19:49And then, you mentioned the last point about offsetting.
19:53Before we go to Mr. Serene, Jenica, what do you mean by offsetting here?
19:57So, offsetting is that when you find if the actions or operations of your business has
20:06possible negative impacts on biodiversity, and then you cannot avoid or minimize this
20:12impact.
20:13So, what you're going to do is you have to offset it.
20:16So, that could mean on-site offsetting or off-site offsetting.
20:20It could be maybe doing reforestation activities or restoration activities, finding an area.
20:30It's kind of like, like for like.
20:32So, whatever you destroy, you offset.
20:35Right, right, right.
20:36And I like your point because your point about degradation of biodiversity happen naturally
20:43because of transportation and whatever activities that we do.
20:46So, it's unavoidable.
20:47The question is, how do we mitigate it?
20:48Mr. Serene, perhaps you're just sticking with Jenica's point.
20:52How do we mitigate?
20:53How do we make sure it doesn't damage further from your experience?
20:59Well, yeah.
21:00I mean, as Jenica has mentioned, there's a hierarchy, right?
21:03So, mitigation is to be done if you can't avoid and you can't find other alternatives
21:10and you still have to go ahead with the project.
21:12Then, you need to look into mitigation.
21:15Of course, it's quite difficult to be able to mitigate effectively all the potential impacts
21:22of a particular development project and especially if, say, deforestation is concerned.
21:27I mean, yeah, maybe you can reduce the area that you're going to deforest.
21:31Maybe you can reduce the impact on biodiversity or species.
21:36Maybe you can reduce the impact on water pollution and all that, right?
21:40But I think we have to accept that there will still be some damage.
21:45So, yeah, I mean, for some industries, probably you can mitigate better.
21:51But for some other industries, the mining industry, for example,
21:54mitigation is going to be a huge task and also very expensive.
21:58So, I think that's why we want people to really work through that hierarchy
22:03and make sure that they have reduced as much as possible potential impacts
22:08and mitigate when they have to.
22:12Do you mind, just for our audience perspective,
22:15perhaps an explanation of the hierarchy, if you don't mind?
22:19Well, I can't remember offhand the hierarchy.
22:22Maybe Anika has got a better memory than me.
22:25But I think avoiding is the first thing that you do, right?
22:29If you are going to have certain…
22:31I mean, take the example of the plantation sector, which I'm more familiar with, right?
22:35And one of the things that we do in the plantation sector
22:39is carrying out the high conservation value assessment.
22:43And this assessment will help plantations decide
22:47whether a particular area should be cleared or not.
22:51So, because when we look at a greenfield area, for example,
22:57there could be standing forests there.
22:59And forests, actually, they're not all equal.
23:02Some may be of higher value.
23:04Some may already be quite degraded.
23:07So, you need to be able to differentiate.
23:09Now, sometimes you may even have rare threatened or endangered species
23:13in a particular forest, in which case then the usual advice is
23:17don't clear that forest, okay?
23:21So, yeah, I mean, these are some of the things that can be done
23:24in terms of avoiding that kind of damage.
23:31But if you actually have to, you know, develop a particular area,
23:38then can you reduce, you know, that level of, you know,
23:43the intensity of that development, right?
23:46And then you try to reduce as much as possible.
23:50Maybe look at your kind of crop selection, the intensity of planting, you know.
23:56Could you do intercropping?
23:58So, there are various options there.
24:01And then if you still need to go ahead with certain things,
24:05then you can look at mitigation, right?
24:07And then finally offsetting.
24:09I mean, I might have missed out one or two steps there,
24:11so maybe Jenica can help out.
24:14You explained that perfectly, Mr. Serene.
24:17Very good.
24:18I think it's important for us also to take away from today's conversation,
24:21not just the theory of it, but how to do it.
24:25So, your point about having high conservation valuation assessment is useful
24:31so that then you can come up with a very detailed plan
24:34addressing the different evaluation assessments, right?
24:38And your point, some could be crop selection,
24:41some could be the intensity of plantation.
24:45Thank you.
24:46Perhaps then going back to Martrade, your greening supply chain,
24:52what is the critical success factors for you as a deputy CEO?
24:58What must we do besides awareness?
25:00What do we need to do?
25:02And perhaps not just, I guess, SMEs in Malaysia, but across Philippines, Indonesia.
25:07What do we need to do to make sure we don't lose out in this cross-border trade landscape?
25:13Yeah, I think the risk of not complying with ESG requirements
25:19is basically our market access is going to be restricted
25:23because the advanced markets like Europeans and America,
25:31they have introduced a series of ESG and sustainability laws and act,
25:39such as the supply chain act, all that.
25:42So if we are not able to comply with that requirement,
25:49then there will be impact on the market access by our enterprises.
25:54And last year, Malaysia exported 1.426 trillion ringgit worth of goods.
26:06And our trade numbers just out yesterday.
26:10For the first five months this year, we exported,
26:14now already surpassed 1.1 trillion ringgit Malaysia, our trade.
26:21But for export, more than 600 billion ringgit Malaysia worth of export for goods only.
26:28So if we don't really serious about it,
26:34and especially for our small and medium enterprises,
26:38there will be a lot of challenges ahead of them
26:41because the contribution by micro, small and medium enterprises to our total export is still small.
26:50In 2022, our MSMEs, they only contributed about 10.5% of the total 1.525 trillion.
27:03Last year, 1.43 trillion.
27:062022, 1.525 trillion ringgit worth of export.
27:11Only 10.5% from micro, small and medium enterprises.
27:14Yeah, only 10%.
27:16Government has set a target next year to increase the share to 15%,
27:22and by 2030, government has increased to 30% of contribution.
27:28So if we want to ramp up this kind of export,
27:34we have to really look into the capability of our enterprises,
27:41especially the SMEs to be able to not only embrace, not only aware of, but how to comply it.
27:48And this is where the role of our 49 overseas trade officers,
27:55first, of course, they need to furnish a lot of information about these requirements,
28:06but here, back home, we need to have a complete synergy among the ecosystem players.
28:14Not only in Madrid, we are talking about international trade and export,
28:18but there are a lot of other government agencies, ministries, as well as private sectors,
28:24they are very keen or very interested to pursue ESG agenda, but are we really in sync?
28:36So this is where, under our five-year national trade blueprint,
28:39we have that component on sustainability and ESG for us to work together with all the relevant stakeholders,
28:46for us to be able, first, to make sure our enterprises, again,
28:52it's not only aware, but the action plan for us to go through the journey of compliance to ESG and sustainability requirements.
29:01Very good. So what you're saying, our export is about 1.5 trillion, 10% is from SMEs,
29:06but we want to grow that to 30%, but critical for that is for SMEs to embrace ESG
29:12and the different sectors to work together.
29:14Are there any particular sector that we need to, in Malaysia or Indonesia or Philippines,
29:19from your point of view, that we need to kick up, to make them work harder?
29:24Which particular sector that we need help?
29:26Well, we are talking about exporting, 85% of export came from manufactured goods.
29:33The rest, commodities, agricultural producers, all that.
29:37And I think Malaysia is chairing ASEAN next year,
29:41so there should be probably initiative for ASEAN countries to revisit the ESG framework that every country has
29:51and see whether there should be a uniformity of framework, ESG framework,
29:57for us to have more common kind of platform.
30:03I'm talking from business perspective, for our enterprises.
30:07So we have to look into that among the ASEAN countries,
30:12because in terms of trade and export, we already have our ASEAN free trade area,
30:18trade agreement after many years, since 1993,
30:22but how about now shifting to the new mega trends about ESG?
30:28So we have to be serious about it and be able to help enterprises from all the ASEAN countries.
30:34And in fact, last year, our ministry, MITI, they had launched the i-ESG framework for manufacturing.
30:42So we are supporting the initiative, but we need to align with other ASEAN countries as well.
30:49Very good. I think that's the purpose of the session today, right?
30:51I mean, and this Asia ESG positive impact is about us working together,
30:55maybe starting with the first three countries.
30:57Jenica, your point of view from Philippines,
30:59the suggestion by Ninja Abubakar to work cross-border more,
31:03especially for intra-ASEAN trade, your views?
31:09Yes, there's actually a lot of opportunities when it comes to working cross-border.
31:15And there are also opportunities when it comes to compliance to ESG framework,
31:21again, coming from the biodiversity perspective.
31:26There are ways to maybe look at identifying biodiversity-specific indicators
31:36and then aligning those with traditional ESG metrics.
31:42And even aligning that with international or global conservation goals,
31:48like the very recently signed Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework.
31:55That's one of them.
31:56And then aside from looking at just compliance,
32:01I would like to challenge our partners, the private sectors,
32:06to looking beyond compliance, going beyond compliance and working on additionality.
32:12Because compliance is good, it's great,
32:15but I think beyond compliance is way sexier, you know?
32:19When it comes to investors,
32:23especially investors that are very focused and investors that prioritize business
32:30that are businesses that are able to demonstrate nature-positive commitments.
32:39So there are opportunities there,
32:41and there are definitely opportunities for collaboration and partnership
32:44between the three countries and other Asian nations.
32:48Yeah, especially with the geopolitical tension heating up.
32:51Perhaps I can open now for questions from the floor,
32:54just to make sure that you all are paying attention anyway.
32:57Just joking.
32:58Any questions from the floor around the particular topic
33:02around cross-border trade and ESG?
33:10Yes, sir. Thank you.
33:11We can get a mic to this gentleman here, please.
33:14Trying to keep this meeting warm.
33:16Thank you, thank you, thank you.
33:19The question I have is this.
33:20Because when you look at the supply chain
33:23and when we are talking about in a very global environment,
33:27rules may change over time, right?
33:30Where, you know, sometimes it's not for the wrong reason, right?
33:36Because you need to do this progressively, right?
33:40So my question is that given that individually we are small countries
33:46compared to the US and Europe,
33:49is there an ASEAN-based standardization
33:53when it comes to all these supply chains?
33:56Because, I mean, for me, number one is, you know,
34:01we need to know what it's all about.
34:03I guess this is where education comes in.
34:05But number two is, what's the solution?
34:08That's right.
34:09Because for a business,
34:10when you do not know what's the solution,
34:11that's a scary part, I believe.
34:13That's right, that's right.
34:14And next year, Malaysia is the chair of…
34:16So maybe I'll start with Madrid
34:18and then maybe later on Surin and Janneka.
34:20The question is, with the supply chain and global rules changing,
34:25could we have an ASEAN standard and where are we on this?
34:28Perhaps we start with you, Mr. Abubakar.
34:30If you don't mind, I stand so that I can get some energy.
34:32Go ahead, go ahead.
34:35We are not a policymaker, so I'm not in a position.
34:39But I think in terms of standardization,
34:42anything that we do, we need to have a standard, right?
34:46Common standard, especially when we talk about
34:49collective ASEAN markets more than, what,
34:52nearly now 700 million population.
34:54So it's huge.
34:55But the thing is that I think while we have other standards
35:01that are addressing trade and business-related matters,
35:07but on ESG, I think that we can further solidify
35:12and intensify our efforts to have a common standard
35:15among the ASEAN countries.
35:17So you would agree and perhaps this Asia ESG
35:21Positive Impact Consortium can take this up
35:24to lobby the different countries.
35:26But anyway, Janneka, your point, your view.
35:31I just find it a bit funny because we're talking about
35:35standardizing ESG framework.
35:39But, you know, when it comes to biodiversity,
35:42there isn't even a standard methodology
35:45on how to measure the stocks.
35:49No, I mean, compared to climate and carbon,
35:53biodiversity is actually lagging behind.
35:57So when it comes to your greenhouse gas emissions
36:01and you're trying to look at impacts of GH,
36:04of your emissions, you have scope one, scope two, scope three.
36:09But we don't have that same for biodiversity.
36:12So you can measure your carbon footprint,
36:14but measuring biodiversity footprint
36:17is still in its very, very early stages.
36:20So there are also opportunities there
36:23and maybe in the next future,
36:25we could be able to come up with a unified standard framework
36:29in order to measure that.
36:31And this biodiversity lack of standard is not just ASEAN,
36:34it's across the whole globe, is it?
36:36Wow, okay.
36:37Suren, your point of view.
36:39Okay, you know, I think standards is a saluted word.
36:43Because when you talk about standards,
36:45normally you will also mention about certification
36:48because certification is a way to check
36:51whether your standards are being implemented.
36:55And there's already a lot of standards out there.
37:01So usually we talk about global standards
37:04and each country may have its own national standards.
37:08So speaking from a producer's point of view,
37:11a manufacturer or plantation company's point of view,
37:14more standards means more headache
37:16because it means then you have to have
37:19auditing for various standards.
37:22And yeah, I mean, these companies can end up
37:25spending a lot of time and resources just doing audits.
37:29So is that the way to go?
37:31So I would think that rather than trying to come up
37:34with too many standards,
37:36we should focus on the improvement bit, right?
37:39Improving practices.
37:40And also going by what Cik Abubakar mentioned just now,
37:45it's actually the SMEs that are struggling.
37:48I don't worry about the SIME Derbys or the IOIs
37:51or the KLKs in this region.
37:54They've got the resources,
37:56they've got the people who can help them
37:59achieve those objectives.
38:01But the SMEs, the smallholders, the small players,
38:06they're going to really struggle
38:08if there are a lot of things that they have to comply with.
38:11And I think the big players need to support the small players,
38:16support through the supply chain,
38:18make sure that they can improve their practices
38:23in a stepwise manner, help them along the way.
38:27Very good. So your point is not standards,
38:29but helping to improve performance
38:32and get the larger organisations to help the SMEs.
38:35Thank you so much.
38:36If you don't mind,
38:38SIME Derby Property, a bit of promotion for you.
38:42Your role as a biodiversity partner for this.
38:46Thank you. Let's welcome...
38:50Can we get a mic?
38:53Perhaps an introduction?
38:55Yasmin Rashid.
38:56Yasmin, yes. Thank you, Yasmin.
38:58Let's give her a round of applause and encourage her.
39:00Thank you so much.
39:04I think over the last 10, 15 years,
39:08I think we're just blessed.
39:09We're just blessed with a lot of land as well.
39:13And the majority of our land are predominantly
39:16unused oil palm plantations.
39:20So apart from focusing on converting them into townships,
39:24we're going to bring people to come live there as communities
39:27and hopefully they can also have generations
39:31to live there as well.
39:33And I think we were guided by very strong leadership
39:36in the belief that turning agricultural soil
39:41into healthy soil symbolises the beginning of
39:46making a healthy township.
39:48I think that was essentially the spirit and the philosophy.
39:53So we've been doing a lot of that.
39:55Of course, we remove palm oil trees, right?
39:59But for every palm oil tree we remove,
40:02we replace it with what we call ERT species,
40:05I think Surin will be familiar,
40:07which are endangered, rare or threatened tree species.
40:11So we've been doing this tracking for the last 10 years.
40:16We hope we can digitise this whole experience
40:20to give us an idea and map out
40:24whether our efforts are bringing back
40:30urban biodiversity into our townships.
40:32So maybe a bit of shameless advertising here.
40:36KL East Park is one example
40:39where 50% of the township is green
40:42because of the 53-acre park.
40:47And we use it as a playground to educate communities.
40:51So we do things like put a thermometer outside,
40:54which is normally 35, 32 degrees.
40:57And as you track inside, you put another thermometer inside.
41:01And it's normally 21, 19 degrees.
41:04To kind of just give that knowledge to people who hike
41:09that without this green lung here
41:12and it connects to Bukit Tabor,
41:14the entire township will also be a bit less pleasant.
41:17So we hope we can replicate this across township.
41:22I know it can be slightly academic,
41:24but I think we need to get to that level as well.
41:27And we're working with non-profits as well.
41:33I mean, at the end of the day,
41:35we hope what we do can generate data
41:41that can help us improve our townships.
41:44But more importantly,
41:46the data should sit with other people as well
41:48so that they can look at how they can improve their townships.
41:51Absolutely. Thank you so much.
41:53Wow, very inspiring. Thank you.
41:54Let's give a round of applause.
41:56So to me, that's important, right?
41:58Today, I mean, it's Friday evening.
42:00Staying back for another hour for this.
42:03But things like this, right?
42:04Inspiring us to do something different for nature.
42:07So thank you so much.
42:08I see you're prepared to end us.
42:10Time's up. Thank you so much.
42:12Please join me to thank our panellists for participating today.
42:15Thank you so much.
42:19Thank you once again, Mr Chow, Encik Abubakar,
42:23Mr Surin, Ms Janika, as well as questions from before.
42:26Thank you, Yasmin. It's good to see you again.
42:28With that, ladies and gentlemen,
42:30nothing else, right?
42:31I think we'll just have to talk about this again more and more.
42:34It's quite endless, this topic.
42:36So once again, thank you so much, dear panellists.
42:38And we do hope that it was very insightful,
42:40informative for all of you attending here
42:43who are still here with us this afternoon.
42:47So I guess, Alvin, it is safe to say that
42:49ESG will surely expand significantly
42:52throughout Asia, inshallah,
42:54and it is vital that the main key players of each country
42:56play a very significant role
42:58in sustaining ESG best practices
43:00in each country's representative industries,
43:02civil society, and more.