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00:00I'm Molly Blackhall, I's Global Affairs Correspondent, here in the Ellery Mountains
00:04in Snowdonia National Park in Wales to meet farmers who've been impacted by Brexit
00:10and find out more about how it might affect the upcoming general election.
00:16Traditionally we've been a beef and sheep farm as are most of the farms around us. Primarily
00:21because of Brexit we decided to go out to sheep production which meant that we weren't for the
00:27first time in probably 200 years on this farm there wouldn't be any sheep. That's a big step.
00:32It was a huge step and I know like my neighbours around me were thinking I'm absolutely crazy
00:38doing it you know. 90% of the produce from that flock, the lambs from that flock was actually
00:44destined for the EU export markets. Really? And I just saw it as a risk to the business.
00:51The biggest consequence of coming out of the EU from a business point of view is that we
00:57no longer have the certainty of budgets. Since we've left the EU they've had the opportunity
01:04obviously in Wales to bring out their own package of agricultural support that fits Wales
01:12and unfortunately it's been an absolute disaster so far. You just need to look around you you know
01:18this part of Wales the expectation of government of the type of farming that we do up here
01:25involves heavily on environmental stuff. The environmental schemes probably accounted for
01:30about 15-20% of our income. But it's not insignificant. Finding that 20% is very
01:36difficult to do from the marketplace. We had the environmental payments but we also had the CAP
01:42payments that probably accounted for nearly 40% of our income at the time. Commitments were made
01:47by Boris Johnson in 2019 that there wouldn't be a penny less of CAP money. So that 40% from
01:55the CAP payments that you were getting that has been replaced broadly? It was replaced up until
02:00this election. When you had a scheme within either the CAP or the European framework
02:07you had the benefit of knowing whatever they were asking us to do here they were having to do the
02:12same in Spain, in Italy, in Germany, in France. So it was parity. So it's a level playing field?
02:17It's an absolute level playing field. Now it's up to each and every devolved government in the UK.
02:23Not only are we up against European farmers but we're now as devolved nations because we've got
02:28different schemes we could be up against our near neighbours being Scotland, England, Northern
02:34Ireland. It'd be quite easy for me as a remainer to go to a neighbour that possibly voted Brexit
02:40and he's complaining. There's no point because it's done. We're out of Europe or we're out of
02:46the EU and we've got to get on with it. So far as I can see, so far as I've read, you know there's
02:51all these trade deals that are being done but unfortunately they're not reciprocal. They're all
02:55one way and they seem to be one way into the country and not from an export perspective. When
03:02products come in, especially red meat and agricultural produce, when that is imported at a much
03:08slower standard than what we're held to. We take Australia for instance, they're one of the biggest
03:14beef producers in the world. The systems in Australia, they're so vast, it's economies of
03:21scale so obviously they could produce beef at a much lower price. Coupled with the fact that they
03:27are still using hormones. Hormone treated beef gives you an advantage of up to 30% on growth rates,
03:34up to 15% on feed efficiencies. How can I compete if my meat is on on the shelf in any supermarket?
03:42At least a 30% premium from an Australian imported piece of beef. It's looking increasingly likely
03:48that the Labour Party are going to be in number 10 Downing Street in July. What do you make of them?
03:53I'm not affiliated to any party but I do read the manifestos. From an agricultural perspective it's
03:58difficult to see any significant difference between one and the other. Farmers have always been wary
04:04of Labour, any Labour government. Have you lost money overall, do you mind me asking? I've lost
04:10certainty of income so we've had to adapt very very quickly. There's a lot of things that have
04:16happened in between, you've got the Ukraine war, you've got Covid which has caused hyperinflation
04:21in the agricultural industry. Whatever the public have felt in inflation, believe you me, doesn't
04:26touch the site to what we felt as an industry. It's difficult to say whether I'm actually worse
04:31off financially or purely because we've changed our farming system here. If we'd have kept on the
04:37same trajectory it would have basically, yeah, it would certainly have had a detriment on the business.
04:45We came to this farm back in 1985 and so that's nearly 40 years now isn't it?
04:54And we got sheep and suckler cows before Brexit, you know, we knew exactly what the
05:00money, it was coming down to agriculture and it stayed in agriculture. Now we've got to fight
05:07our corner all the time. The Brexit vote was back in 2016, that is eight years away. So I wonder if
05:16you could tell us about the schemes that you were part of and that you benefited from when we were
05:21in the European Union. One of the schemes was the environment scheme, Tyr Gawel and then Glastir.
05:29So these schemes, they were there to offer you guys money basically for making environmental
05:34changes, is that why? It was sort of incentives to make it more eco-friendly? Yeah, you know we're
05:39standing very close here to the stream and we've done some work, you know, to make
05:45sure that livestock doesn't go to the water to contaminate the water. Streamside corridors,
05:52we've planted miles and miles of new hedges, planted thousands of trees. We were told to
06:02how many sheep you could keep on the mountain. I've lost well over 50 percent to what I was having
06:08under the Glasgow environment scheme and I know some farmers in Wales,
06:14they even have lost up to 75 percent. Before Brexit we knew that the budget was there.
06:20How did you feel before Brexit? Were you ever a supporter? Did you think it would be
06:25bring benefits for you? I was a very big supporter of staying in Europe. I think we needed change
06:33but I think the change should have been within Europe. The big problem is, you know, that
06:39the government, UK government, has done a deal with Australia, New Zealand, to bring in farm
06:46products into this country, especially beef and lamb. I'm very, very worried and, you know, we are
06:51producing food in this country to a very, very high standard. Lots of farmers did vote for Brexit,
06:58you know, you were quite pro-remain but lots of people did vote in hope that it would improve
07:02things. Do you know people who did vote for for leave? How do they feel about that now? I'm sure
07:08that a lot of people that did vote to get out of Europe will regret it. The impact is going to be
07:15enormous over the next decade. You know, I really want to see coming out of this general election
07:23that they do look after agriculture and the government in Westminster and the government
07:30in Cardiff has got to work a lot, lot better together. If Labour goes in, and the prediction
07:37is that they will go in, I think that the Welsh government in Cardiff then will cannot put the
07:47blame on Westminster because they'll be the same party. And if Keir Starmer is elected Prime
07:55Minister on the 4th of July, what would your message to him be? The budget in Wales is only,
08:01to our consensus, only 2% of the whole Welsh budget so, you know, if we could have a
08:11little bit more, a fraction or one or two percent more. Has it changed your vote,
08:16what happened with Brexit? Has it had any influence on who you'll be supporting?
08:20No, in this area and we apply Cymru so, and the MP that we've got in this area, it's a very good MP
08:36so, I haven't told you which way I'm going to vote but, you know, it's very important that
08:46whatever, whoever goes as an MP in Wales, that they fight for Wales.