Yourcinemafilms.com | Super-producer, director and writer @sheilanortley breaks down how she produced her blocks for the ground-breaking series Supacell and how exactly they re-built Piccadilly Circus!
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00:00Now everyone's making it in film and TV, but we don't really know how. Here, we uncover
00:07the truth. Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast.
00:13Welcome to the Your Cinema Podcast. This is the place where we explore the truth about
00:17the film and TV industry and theatre and hear it directly from those who are smashing it
00:23in their areas. Today, we have got an amazing guest as always, but she is a special guest
00:31I would say, because we have been on the journey with her for many years. She's a producer,
00:38a director, a writer, and I would also say a silent glove in so many things that we'll
00:50find out one day and some things we won't ever need to find out, but she's a great supporter
00:56of a lot of people. She's worked on projects for Sky, Netflix, like a lot of things. But,
01:05well, not but, and she's also the producer on the groundbreaking superhero drama, Supercell,
01:17created by a rap man. We've got Sheila Nautley in the building. What's going on? How are
01:22you?
01:23Yeah, all good. All good. Really excited. Obviously, Supercell is out now. So, after
01:28five years in the making, two years I've been on board, it's showtime now, you know? So
01:33that's really exciting.
01:34Wow. Okay. Do you know what? So you said some really big statements that I don't want to
01:41gloss over, right? You said five years in the making. How did Supercell come about for
01:53you?
01:54Well, for me, okay, so five years in the making is specific to rap man. That's when he had
01:59the contest and he, many people have seen the clip now where he spoke about it in the
02:05back of the bus and said, imagine if like people from ENDS had superpowers, right? And
02:09five years later, that's where we are. In terms of my involvement, I got on board in
02:142022 when, yeah, it was, this was going to happen now. It was just a matter of how and
02:22where and when. And I just finished, well, Stay Close had been released, actually, sorry.
02:31Yeah, so Stay Close had been released the previous year and had done really, really
02:35well. And so I'd already kind of been speaking with Netflix about another show potentially.
02:40So everything just aligned for this to be the show that I was going to, that I was going
02:44to produce on.
02:45Wow. Now I've got a question for you, right? Is this the biggest scale show that you've
02:52worked on today?
02:53Yeah, absolutely. It is. I had never worked on, you know, something so VFX heavy before
02:59as well. Obviously prior to that was Stay Close, which was again, a huge high-end TV
03:03show. It was a thriller, so it was much more domestic, I would say. This is a superhero
03:11show, so you have, yeah, it was a whole nother level in terms of scale. So yeah, it was a
03:18really great show to be a part of.
03:20I love that. So given the scale and all of these new facets of like, you know, special
03:29effects, et cetera, et cetera, because like, we've seen bits on the behind the scenes,
03:35but then also like, I remember Junior was, he was telling me like the scale of like even
03:43the green screens, he was like, I've never seen anything like that in my life. So you,
03:50that's all good for an actor to say that, but you producing, you have to make all of
03:55this possible, innit? So where do you begin when something like this, like, it's like,
04:00cool, you're producing it, what's going on?
04:02It begins with the showrunner. It all begins with the showrunner and what his vision is.
04:06And we just look at how best to execute it, obviously within budget and within time. So
04:11we have those parameters where Ratman's creative vision and Sebastian Till, who directed a
04:17block of the show as well, they have their visions and obviously the role of the producer
04:21and the whole kind of production team is to execute it to the highest possible standard
04:27within time, within budget, and just to make it happen. So yeah, it was, I guess that was
04:33one of the biggest challenges of the show was it's such an ambitious project. You want
04:38to do it justice. How do you tell it in the best possible way? The big VFX, like I know
04:46the scene that Junior's talking about, it was Piccadilly Circus where we couldn't block
04:53off like Piccadilly Circus, it just wasn't feasible. So we built it and we had green
04:58screens all around for the background. But in terms of the actual foreground, we built
05:04kind of a mini Piccadilly Circus. Yeah, and we just made it happen. Yeah, it looks great.
05:13So, okay. All right. All right. All right. So, right. From a, I'm just thinking, right,
05:22from a like, from an indie perspective, the context of how do you do that? Because I guess
05:31it sounds like, so you're sitting with, you're sitting with Raps and Sebastian, and like,
05:37what I can see in my mind is, cool, they're explaining the vision, there's probably a
05:41mood board, maybe there's some YouTube links of references of like, oh, you know, when
05:45they did that, and then you've got to be the container to take all of this creativity,
05:53and then make it practical, whilst also leaning on your creative understanding. So then it's
05:59like a language transfer, right? Well, that's what that's, that's the beauty of producing.
06:04And that's what I love. It's like, you've got the creativity, and that creative energy,
06:08and you are kind of, yeah, transferring that into, into something practical. And so what
06:13we do, we take that information, and we meet with the VFX team and the SFX team, because
06:17they had to work very, very closely, as well as kind of, yeah, costume design, sometimes,
06:24it's every single department. Sorry, I'm going to, Pierre, is this going to be edited? So
06:30I can like, we can chop it up? Or not really? Yeah, do you know what? Not really, not really,
06:36but like, when, where we need to, we can, but in the ideal world, I just, I don't, but
06:43yes.
06:44I'll try not to make any mistakes. I will ask that one again, though.
06:48Yeah, no problem.
06:49Yeah, so what was the question? How do you, yeah, so that's the joy of being a producer,
06:53is, is taking that information and, and figuring it out, just figuring out how do we do this?
06:58So in terms of where we'd start, it would start with the director and the showrunners
07:02vision. Yeah, we'd kind of get all the HRDs who were involved in that particular moment
07:08to figure out how to do it. So we had an amazing VFX team, we had an amazing SFX team, we had
07:14an amazing art department. And so those three departments, we'd sit down, we'd iron things
07:19out, they'd feedback on how much things would cost. Sometimes it'll be like, well, if you
07:23want that to blow up, then that can't fly. Or if you want that to fly, then then that
07:28can't turn invisible. So it was a case of literally sometimes having a menu and looking
07:32at budget and thinking, if we do this, then we can't do that. If we build Piccadilly Circus,
07:37something's got to give elsewhere, which isn't always fun for the directors. But again, as
07:42a producer, it is, it's problem solving. And it's something that has to be done. Otherwise,
07:47you'd end up with chaos. And on a show of this scale, that's not an option. So yeah,
07:53just having conversations with the HRDs, conversations with the directors. And obviously, with our
07:58showrunner at the helm of it all. That's how we made magic.
08:04So how long, how long were you working on the show for? Like, how long did it take to?
08:11I was on board from April 2022. Yeah. So April 2023. Yeah, I was on board. Yeah.
08:24Okay, so the reason, the reason I'm asking is because, like, directors, they'll do blocks,
08:34right? Because, and like you, like you were saying before, it's like, it's so much work
08:40that more than three episodes is going to be a lot. But working on a show, like of this
08:48magnitude, right? Based off of what you said, you are, for me, it sounds and feels like you're
08:57doing a few different jobs, which all falls under the role of producer, because the directors
09:02are here doing their thing. And then the VFX and all the other teams are there. But it's
09:07like you're the in the middle link to everyone. Yeah, that is the one that is the one job of the
09:14producer. It's to be that, that kind of connector between all the different departments and overseeing
09:23all the different departments and making sure everyone has what they have, has what they need
09:27to do what it is they need to do. So, so that I'd say is one of the main jobs is kind of
09:32managing all of the HODs. And again, kind of wherever there is conflict, creatively, logistically,
09:39financially, to bring that back to what does Ratman want to do? What story are we trying to
09:43tell? And I think that's why that was part of the value that I really wanted to bring to the show
09:48was understanding as a Black South Londoner myself on a show about Black South Londoners,
09:56what are the most important things that Ratman wants to convey culturally, you know, and making
10:02sure that comes to authentically because there's always things you can cut from from budget,
10:06oh, why do we have to shoot at this particular location? Why do we have to show this in this
10:10way? Why do we have to? And it's like, because this means something to us, like, this is really
10:14important. So yeah, everything, I guess, would come back to that creative vision.
10:19But then there's lots of other things to consider as well.
10:23Do you know what, right? I love what you just said, because it sounds like you had to remind
10:29some people when those, let me not say conflicts, those creative solutions were needed in terms of
10:38alright, cool, but what story are we trying to tell here? What do we need to achieve here? And
10:45if this is what we need to achieve, well, then this is why we do need to do it. Or this is
10:48maybe why we don't need to, even though it's quite cool. And given that you were in this,
10:57dare I say pressure cooker for about 12 months, how do you manage that?
11:02Like, for me, it feels, it sounds like it's quite a lot. And it's quite a lot of work and
11:13interaction over a sustained period. Obviously, you're used to it, right? It's not your first
11:18TV show ever. But like, the stakes are so high. There's also that cultural aspect of like, listen,
11:27this is about us. And I'm from this place. I'm not dropping a ball. There's also that,
11:33probably that other element. But how do you manage all of that on a day to day?
11:39That's a lot. There's a lot you asked there. I think working on a project for so long,
11:48you're invested in it, you know, like you are fully invested. It's not something that you're
11:54kind of just going to be able to dip in and dip out of. For however long you're part of this,
11:59it's like, it has your full investment, your full time. It's a priority. It's the priority in terms
12:05of just getting it done and getting it done well. I was really fortunate in that we had a great team
12:09of people. You know, I was working very closely with Sebastian Till, the Broad 2 director,
12:15working very closely with cast. And then of course, with the whole kind of production team,
12:18exec producers, Mukta Mohammed, Steve Sell, series producer, Joanna Crowe,
12:23so a social producer, Henrietta Lee. So there was like a huge team. I just want to name everyone
12:27because I don't want you to mention me. But yeah, a big, big team of people. So yeah, it's kind of
12:36like, that's you. This is the company that you're going to be in for a year. This is the mission.
12:43And I quite enjoyed that actually, because you really get to understand each other's workflow,
12:49you get to understand each other's sensibilities as well. You're working with different people
12:54you may not have worked with before. And just those relationships. It's not always easy.
12:59You know, I always used to like describe it as like a bit of a big brother house,
13:04where it is that you're in each other's faces pretty much all the time.
13:08Giving these tasks every day that may seem impossible. So it's not always easy, but it's
13:15always again, when you have like a really strong idea of what it is you're trying to achieve, and
13:19the objective is really, really clear, then that always gives you something to look back to.
13:25It's like, does that do what we set out to do? Yeah.
13:30I love that. I love that. Now, I love shows like this, like shows that seem to
13:36hit the nail on the head with regards to showing the ends like authentically.
13:41Why do you think this show is so important?
13:46This is the UK's first Black superhero show. It's the UK's first Black British superhero show.
13:54So it's important in terms of history, in terms of being something that is groundbreaking,
14:03in terms of seeing Black people in spaces that historically we've been kind of told we didn't
14:09belong, really. You know, so that's big. It's so, so big to hear people who look like us and
14:15talk like us and grew up in the same environments. And when I say that, I mean, we're not a monolith.
14:21Everyone knows that we're not a monolith. What's interesting, again, about the show is you have
14:25five very different characters. So even within those five, you have five very different Black
14:29British experiences, and there are many more than five. I wouldn't put it on one show to represent
14:34the whole of Black Britain, but what it does do is for the first time show Black British characters
14:41in a genre which we've never been seen. And it's like that. When you watch it,
14:46you'll have those moments when you'll be like, oh, so like we're throwing cars now.
14:54What? This is us. There's something about that that is something that is very, very hard to
14:59quantify or put into words. But it is, again, the power of representation, the power of what we do
15:04as storytellers. It's almost like we didn't necessarily. Until you see it for the first time
15:13is when you realize, oh, we haven't seen ourselves like that before, if that makes sense.
15:18And I guess as well, in terms of other creatives and other filmmakers, I'm hoping that will open
15:23up more, you know, in terms of seeing Black people in genres that we haven't been seen in yet. We've
15:28had a couple of rom-coms now, still very far behind our American counterparts, but we had Boxing Day,
15:34we had Y Lane. We want more Black British rom-coms. We just want more of everything.
15:40So I think this will open up, hopefully, people's eyes in terms of marketability,
15:48kind of Black British characters in the mainstream without having to dilute or exploit our culture.
15:56Yes, I love that. I love that. I love that. And you know what? Having such a strong
16:03viewpoint and passion point about what you just said is such a huge reason why it is important
16:13that you're a producer on this, because you're at the helm of everything. So there's like one
16:22thing that used to irk me a lot is like watching certain films and I'm like, but we don't speak
16:28like that, or we don't do that, we really don't wear that. And I can't focus on the story,
16:34because you've got that bit wrong. Authenticity was really, really important. And again,
16:42not diluting anything. So with anything that Ratman writes, he does tend to put his own lived
16:48experience in there. And whether that is palatable, or not palatable, or like people want
16:52to hear it, they don't want to hear it. It's like, this is who he is. This is what he wants to talk
16:55about. This is how this is his story. And it's what he wants to share. And I do really respect
17:00that about him. It's one of the biggest things I respect about him. And there's no code switching
17:05there. He just comes in, he is who he is. And you cannot help but respect that. Like,
17:10you cannot help but respect that way. He comes into a room and commands that respect.
17:15This is someone who knows themselves. And he's a natural leader. I always remember this time,
17:21it was our first ever kind of big production meeting. And the way he just came in, like,
17:27we were all just kind of waiting for him. We had all the different HODs and all the producers.
17:30And he just came in with this energy that's like, and he just stood at the end of the table
17:37and commanded everyone's respect, but not in a way that was, there was no bravado, it was just
17:42natural. Like, it was all eyes on him. This is who we need to listen to. This is the showrunner.
17:46Everyone's getting their notepads and pens out. And I'm just like, yeah, okay. You know, this is
17:53what we need. This is what we need. And it's so, so beautiful to see that. Like, yeah, so much
18:00respect for Ratman. So much respect. And I'm so excited about what's to follow.
18:06Oh, I love that. I love that. I yeah, I love that. I love that. So given, given that, right,
18:13and you've sort of, you've sort of touched on this a little bit, but what was it like
18:17actually working with him? Because, yeah, like creatively, he's broken ground in a huge way.
18:28So what was it like working with him?
18:31Um, it was very, it was, it was incredible. It was very inspiring. Again, he's a real visionary,
18:37you know, and different directors have different styles. In fact, him and Sebastian have very
18:40different styles of work, both incredible directors, but they both worked incredibly
18:44differently. But yeah, just, yeah, both of them had a very clear vision. And they also worked
18:53together in order to ensure that the vision was cohesive. If you've got different directors on
18:57the same show, you don't want it to feel like two different shows. So it was a case of Ratman
19:02continually being in touch with the second block and kind of letting us know what was really
19:07important to him about each episode. Certain emotional beats were really important for us to
19:11map, especially when you're crossing over from a different director. Like, where is this character
19:18when we leave episode two? And how do we make sure that he's still in that same emotional state in
19:22episode three? And that would translate into costume, the kind of colours a character would
19:27wear, or like, what's in the background, for example, if someone's really depressed,
19:30you know, what would their bedroom start to look and feel like? So just obviously,
19:35these very small details and nuance, but we had to make sure that there was a seamless transition
19:39in both kind of emotional arcs within the characters, as well as visually and aesthetically,
19:45because we had a different DP on both blocks as well. But yeah, both of them were incredible
19:51to work with. And with Ratman, as our showrunner at the helm of it all,
19:58yeah, he, again, he had a very, very clear idea of what he wanted, which was incredibly important.
20:03You want, if he didn't know what he wanted, nothing would have worked. But he was that,
20:10yeah, the constant kind of, the constant throughout the whole show.
20:14I love that. So you touched on something which was really interesting, in terms of
20:21raps playing, raps having various roles. So director, showrunner, also writer, with how,
20:31what was it, how did he strike that balance in terms of being clear about what's important in
20:37the blocks that he didn't direct, but still allow Sebastian the creative space to put his stamp on
20:44it? I would say, to be honest, any show that has more than one director, I would say any show that
20:50has more than one director, it's going to have to be a conversation about how each director likes
20:54to work, how each director likes to be communicated with, because it's so full on. So when Ratman was
21:00directing his episodes, Seb and I were in prep for block two episodes. And then when
21:09Seb was shooting block two, raps was in prep for episode six. So everyone was constantly working.
21:16It was very hard to find a time when, in fact, there was no time when no one was working on
21:20something that those conversations could happen, except for prep. So prep was, I'd say, the time
21:26that the two directors were able to spend as long as they possibly could together to ensure that
21:31everything was, all the information that was important to Raps was kind of given to Seb,
21:37and that said that within those parameters, he could now make his own creative decisions, just
21:43knowing this is what's super important about this scene, this is what Raps really wants from this
21:46scene. So it was a very, very collaborative process. And to be honest with you, it got better
21:51as we went on, because this is the first time they're working together. They've got all of
21:56these execs, you've got different producers, you've got, you know, there's quite a few voices in the
22:01room. But then once you work out each other's workflow, you work out, you know, each other's
22:06style of communication. Some people are email people, some people are WhatsApp people, some
22:09people like to speak on the phone, some people like face to face. So again, outside of the creative,
22:15that was one of my roles is just making sure that this information is being passed in a way
22:18that is, yeah, is most effective and can be absorbed as quickly as possible. Because it's
22:23like, we got to shoot. Yeah. So you know what, right? We've spoken a lot about Raps's involvement
22:32creatively, and how you've facilitated everyone, right? But you mentioned the execs. And I just
22:39thought, so in the midst of core, this is his, this is his vision. We need to rep and make it
22:46authentic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What input were the execs given then? Oh, the execs had a lot of input,
22:52a lot of input as well. So yeah, we had two execs from Netflix. We also had Muqtada Hamid from
22:59New Wave. And then Batman himself is an exec on the show. And they all had input creatively and
23:07across everything as well. So yeah, it was, it was a really big core team. But again, that was really,
23:12really useful. I think when you're someone who works collaboratively, you see the benefit of
23:16having so many eyes on so many things, it's harder to miss things. If you've got a real strong team
23:22of people looking at everything from script to creative to story to budget. So yeah, but the
23:30execs were very, you know, they were very present. I think each, every single day on set, we had at
23:34least two execs who were there watching on a monitor. Oh wow. So this, all right, so this is
23:42so interesting because one of my friends Noel, he was breaking down to me just the, the differences
23:50of how you would pitch to a streamer, particular channels, you know, like everyone's kind of got
23:58their own identity. Like a channel four is different from a BBC three, from a Netflix,
24:02from Amazon, da, da, da, da, da. So what kind of things were, what kind of inputs were, were coming
24:10from the execs or was it because, because my perception is like, oh, okay, that's mainly
24:17going to be, that's probably going to be like, you know, things about budget and less, less creative
24:24because, but then yeah, it'll be interesting. That's probably not the case, is it?
24:31Not at all. It was like separate to the creative. We'd have meetings on budget, we'd have cost
24:36report meetings. We'd go through the budget to see just where we were with things weekly.
24:43However, from a creative perspective, they've also very much across story. We also had a story
24:48producer who was kind of in the writing, in the, in the writing rooms and in the story meetings with
24:55Ratman and mainly Steve Searle, one of the execs. So there were, yeah, there was definitely a lot
25:02of creative input as well from the execs. Okay, nice. Yeah, they were, they're pretty much across,
25:08across everything. That is so helpful. Wow. Okay, okay, okay, okay. So given that you are, what I
25:17love, one thing that I love about you, right, is that you are very much, let's say, in the industry
25:24or, you know, you do like amazing projects like Supercell, Stay Close, et cetera, et cetera, right?
25:30But then you're all, you're always doing like shorts and... Always, always. I'm always gonna be making
25:37short films. Always. Because I think it's such a beautiful medium and I think people miss a trick
25:44when they look at short films as like just a means to an end, like I'm making just a proof of concept
25:49for this feature or just a proof of concept for this show or I'm just doing this until I land my
25:53first TV show. Short films in and of themselves are an incredible medium where you have to tell
26:00a great amount of story or give some information or make people feel something
26:04in like 5, 10, 15 minutes. I think it's such an interesting space and it stretches you creatively
26:11and that's where I, that's where I started. I'm always gonna have, I'm always gonna be
26:17working on short films, whether that's producing or exec producing. I think it's a great way to
26:23discover new talent as well, but I also think it's a great way to stretch your creative muscles and
26:30yeah, just tell really incredible stories within a very limited period of time. I think it's,
26:35I love short films. I love that, I love that. I can tell you do, you do love them, you do.
26:42I always get ideas, you know, like where I'm like, oh I really want to like, I want to tell this story
26:47like, let me find a way to do it and I don't think it's something you can switch off.
26:52Yeah, no, that's good. The creative muscle is, is always, always there with you. Yeah, I love that.
27:00So given, given that you'll always be doing short films, right, and you'll always be doing
27:07amazing big projects as well, what would you say is the difference in your process between doing
27:15a short, a short and doing, you know, like a show for, for Netflix, let's say. What's that sorry?
27:21Like the difference in your process between doing a show for Netflix and a short film?
27:27Oh, it's very, very different. I think with a short film, it's usually I'll get like a burst
27:34of inspiration or a spark of inspiration. Like I'll just have an idea and then I have to think
27:40about, okay, how, how do I raise the finance I need to, to get this made or yeah, just how do
27:47I make it happen? Who do I need to speak to tell this story? I guess with the bigger projects,
27:53depending on what it is and where it is, when I come get involved, usually there is already
27:58finance in place. So the how is more just a case of how do we use this finance to create this show?
28:03Like, so you're starting at quite a different point in the, yeah. I'd say that's a big point
28:13in terms of starting. And then obviously in terms of process throughout, you know, you have
28:18obviously a lot more budget and a bigger team, bigger crew, bigger cast, et cetera, you're shooting for a
28:23longer period of time. So there are a lot of differences, but at the same time, there's a lot
28:27of these, it's the same transferable skills. The question is, it's the how of, you know, the what,
28:32it's the how do you make, how do you get this done? How does this go from an idea to, to a show,
28:38to something that people can watch and interact with? I love that. I love it. I love it. Now you,
28:46like we've covered, you, you have really helped to birth this vision and translate it and make it
28:54what, what, what we're all seeing now. Right. What would you say makes a good producer?
29:02Oh, I think what makes a good producer? I think good communication skills are really,
29:08really important. Being able to speak to everybody and anybody, because you are responsible for,
29:14from everybody, HODs, runners, and everybody in between should be able to approach you and
29:19communicate with you both again, creatively in terms of what they need to do, but also
29:25if anything's like troubling them, if they have any concerns about production at all,
29:30they should be able to communicate with you. As well as that, you're also communicating with the
29:36execs, potentially with commissioners, depending on like what, what kind of show you're working on.
29:44So yeah, all around good communication. I would personally say like a calm temperament. I think
29:51you have to be able to problem solve. And so being able to be calm under pressure and not panic,
29:57because when you panic, that's when you make bad decisions. And, you know, those decisions could
30:04cost money, whether again, that's on like a short film, or a feature film or a TV show,
30:09bad decisions as a producer will probably cost you money. And that's the last thing you want to do
30:14is budget unnecessarily. Yeah. And I've mentioned it already, but I mentioned it as a very specific
30:21point is problem solving. And being able to look at information, take a step back, and make decisions,
30:29kind of decisions which are not based on emotion at the time, but decisions which are made on the
30:34facts. So I'm an Aquarius. So I live in that space. And just being able to just take a step back and
30:41look at the data and make a decision based on the information in front of you. Without yeah,
30:46without panicking. So yeah, those are the three things I would say really, really important. But
30:52yeah, people skills, I think are incredibly important. You can have a crew of people,
30:58if they cannot communicate with you about their ideas about their problems about not personal
31:04problems, but their problems in terms of on the on the show. Yeah, then there's a problem. And then,
31:09you know, things begin to, things can quite quickly escalate when it could have just been
31:15an email or a phone call, or can I have a quick chat, this is not working, we're not quite sure
31:20about this or whatever. So I think that's probably the most important thing.
31:24Wow. So with that, right, given that communication is so important, I love your point about some
31:31people are text people, some people email people, some people are phone calls, right, which I think
31:40just in life, we can sometimes take for granted and take it personally when someone's not getting
31:45back to us. Because people are so different. And you are at the helm of all the departments.
31:54How do you facilitate like 10 or 20 different people who you have to like, Oh, yeah, but yeah,
32:04then I just I just got to call this person or no, I have to email this. How do you do that? And then
32:10make everyone feel like they can come to you? Yeah, well, again, first of all, it's having a
32:17great production team. So being able to delegate, and being able to say, okay, like, all right, you
32:23deal with that, you know, you deal with that conversation, there's an issue here, can you deal
32:27with that? So you're able to delegate specific threads and specific aspects to specific members
32:33of within your team. Yeah. But then also just actually that being very aware of you've sent
32:40an email, who needs a phone call? Oh, I'm just gonna call him because I know he might not have
32:44seen the thing is, everyone's really busy. And everyone's also shooting. So some of the time
32:49when you're waiting for an email, someone's on set, and they're not going to see your email until
32:52they wrap. And to be honest with you after they wrap, they're not really supposed to be working
32:55because they've wrapped. So it's actually being very, very aware of Yeah, like who is available,
33:01who's not available, when's the best time to catch someone, even knowing, okay, this person's at this
33:06location today. So I'll just drive down. So I can have a quick chat because it's super important.
33:11Going back to your previous question about what's what's really important skills, just being very,
33:15very organized. So again, knowing if something needs to be done by next week, and you have to
33:20have you have to speak to someone, where can I catch them for that conversation? So it's it's
33:26kind of Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts, but you have to be on top of it all. And again, not
33:31don't let the stress, you have to be able to kind of transmute that energy of like pressure into
33:39like action. And yeah, I think it's I love it. Like I absolutely love it. I literally I light
33:47up when I talk about it, because I love I love that kind of thing. Because again, we've done it
33:51on the short, I've been doing it for like 15 plus years. So I know when there's a problem,
33:57there's always a solution. Some solutions are better than others. But there's always a way to
34:01sort something out. Like there's always a way it's just like, what's the best way to fix this problem?
34:07And to make sure that everyone's happy, directors happy, execs are happy, and you have a great show.
34:11And sometimes not everyone's happy. But what's the best way to, to just get things moving?
34:17So, so yeah, that's kind of, that's what we do.
34:21I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, Sheila, it's been amazing chatting with you.
34:30Everyone Supercell is out now, as you already know. But now well done. Well done. Because
34:38this is an achievement and a half. I mean, doing a production for Netflix is one thing.
34:44But doing something so groundbreaking. And it's, I couldn't think of anyone else,
34:53like who would be at the helm of it. It's like, like, and you're from South. It's just like,
34:57who else is going to do it? Who else is going to do it?
35:00Are you from South as well, Pierre?
35:02No, I'm from East. Yes, I am from East. But I appreciate, I appreciate South.
35:09Well, that's good. You know what I think? Yeah. Anyway, I won't go into like the different like,
35:14you know, North, South, East, West. But I think there's definitely a connection
35:17between South and East. Yeah. I still feel South is a couple of steps ahead. But all good. Yeah.
35:26I'm joking.
35:30But thank you. And even when you say at the helm, though, and again, it's not even like
35:34false humility or anything like that. I always have to be super clear that
35:37I really like we had an amazing team. Yeah. I was very much at the helm. And I was just,
35:44I was part of the team of producers that brought this show to life. And I feel very, very honored.
35:50Because again, to me, this is history. This is a legacy. And this is part of like the bigger
35:55picture in terms of broadening the narrative of where we hear, where we see black British
36:00characters in genres in which we've never been before. Like this is a big part of that of that
36:05movement. I love it. I love it. Well done. And we shall catch up soon.