Former Democratic Senator Bob Kerrey: Biden's Debate Performance Was 'Sad' But He Shouldn't Drop Out

2 months ago

On "Forbes Newsroom," former Sen. Bob Kerrey (D-NE) reacted to the first presidential debate between President Biden and former President Trump, the questions that were missed, his concerns about the national debt, and what Biden should do following his poor performance.

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00:00Hi, everybody. I'm Brittany Lewis with Forbes Breaking News. Joining me now is former Senator

00:07and co-chair of the Concord Coalition, Bob Kerrey. Senator, thank you so much for joining

00:11me.

00:12You're welcome, Brittany. Nice to be with you.

00:15Nice to have you. And the debate, historic presidential debate between former President

00:20Donald Trump and current President Joe Biden was held last week. Before the debate, though,

00:26you penned an op-ed in The Washington Post entitled this. Don't waste the Biden-Trump

00:31debate. Make them answer this question.

00:34And the question was on the national debt. And as we know, as the debate played out,

00:39there's a lot more of conversation of how things were said versus what was said. But

00:44I do want to start with substance here. There was a question on the national debt. What

00:48do you think? How do you think the question was posed? And what did you think of both

00:52presidents' answers?

00:53They dodged the question. I've been relatively good at dodging questions myself, so I know

01:02what I'm seeing. They didn't answer the question. And it's relatively easy to make it sound

01:07like you really care when you don't. The debt has been going up steadily. We now, you know,

01:14the interest on the debt is larger than the Department of Defense, and it's getting larger.

01:19And it's doable. We were paying off debt when I left the Senate. It was hard. Republicans

01:25had to do things they didn't want to do, and Democrats had to do things they didn't want

01:28to do. But it worked. And then we went right back to, you know, if you just cut the taxes

01:34a bunch and make people happy with tax cuts, it'll solve the problem. It didn't. We're

01:38right back where we were before. And now, unfortunately, it seems to me one of the big

01:42problems is, especially in the political class, they just don't seem to have a sense

01:48of urgency to solve it.

01:50And let's talk about exactly where we are in terms of the debt. According to the Nonpartisan

01:55Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, they estimate President Trump was responsible

02:00for approximately $8.4 trillion of national debt. And then the same committee has estimated

02:07that President Biden, at this point in his presidency, has approved $4.3 trillion of

02:13debt. So has any president between Biden and Trump showed any type of leadership when it

02:18comes to the national debt?

02:20Well, there's nobody between Biden. Yes, George Herbert Walker Bush did. Bill Clinton did.

02:27And between the two of them, we started off at about 4 percent of our economy being funded

02:32every year with debt. And at the end of those two presidents' terms, 12 years, we were paying

02:38debt down. We were actually paying off debt not that long ago. So it's absolutely doable.

02:44But you've got to be willing to do that. As I said, Republicans don't want to raise taxes.

02:49Democrats don't want to cut spending. And unless you do a little bit of both, you don't

02:52get the job done.

02:54So it's what's happened, I think, especially in the last 10 or 12 years, is a growing number

02:59of people incorrectly, in my view, saying debt doesn't matter. They'll say things like,

03:04well, it's about the same as it was after the Second World War. Well, gosh, after the

03:08Second World War, you know, we had we had used that debt not only to win the war, but

03:13we used the debt to invest in productive businesses, part of the defense industry, and lots of

03:17non-defense businesses that were invested in as a consequence of that debt.

03:22And we began rapidly to pay the debt down because our economy was booming. So it's not

03:28the same thing. I think the best way of seeing it, I think, is you look at the individual

03:33programs themselves. So if you what I would have preferred that Dana and Jake had asked

03:41is, what do you say? What do you say to a 60-year-old? Your plan, which is the do-nothing

03:48plan, the do-nothing plan has a 17 percent cut in benefits for anybody 60 years of old

03:55and under. And the younger you get, the worse it is. So what do you say to that 60-year-old?

04:00That under current law, they're going to get a 17 percent cut in their benefits. And they

04:05say, well, we're not for a 17 percent cut. They'll deny their afford. But the current

04:09do-nothing plan does exactly that. And part of the problem is that politicians don't have

04:15to face that question. They don't have to face and explain the consequences of doing

04:20nothing to Medicare, Social Security and other people who depend upon these programs.

04:26What's your answer to that question, then, when you hear someone say debt doesn't matter?

04:31I mean, it's a trillion-dollar problem. It sounds like it does matter. So how does it

04:37matter? And what are the consequences of this sky-high debt?

04:41All of us away from Washington, D.C. understand that debt has to be either paid back or somehow

04:48you've got to reduce the value of the debt. You've got to get some of it forgiven. And

04:53that basically means devaluing our currency. So you've got to pay it back. And, you know,

04:58the Chinese have a trillion dollars worth of debt. Other foreign countries have seven

05:02or eight trillion dollars. We talk all the time about wanting to be strong and want to

05:06get back to where we were before. Well, we've got a long ways to go to make America great

05:11again when it comes to, you know, the amount of federal debt that we've got. And it hinders

05:15our capacity to do the things that we know need to be done. So it's not a trivial matter.

05:21And it's just going to take, you know, I put it this way. On the 6th of June this year,

05:26we celebrated the 80th anniversary of D-Day. And anybody that watched that was quite moved

05:31by these old men coming up and saying, you know, I was here and Jim died and John died

05:37and Bill died. But we did it for the future. We didn't expect anything in return. We weren't

05:43looking for anything. They were completely unselfish. And it's going to take that kind

05:47of attitude on behalf of the country to get it done, because you're going to have to do

05:51some things that in some groups are going to be very unpopular.

05:56What's the solution here? Because in Donald Trump's answer to the debt question, he did

06:02eventually go on to immigration. When President Biden was talking about the national debt

06:07question, that was the question where he froze up and ended up saying we beat Medicare. In

06:12your op-ed for The Washington Post, this is what you said for a possible solution.

06:17We don't need another commission. We need the president and Congress to do their patriotic

06:21duty and lead. What does that leadership look like?

06:25You're going to have to come first. You have to come to the American people and tell them

06:28the truth. You can't come and dodge this. You got to hear the fact. And it's not complicated.

06:33It's not like a cure for cancer. It's a relatively straightforward problem. We're spending X.

06:40From taxes, we're generating X minus 5% or 6% or something like that. We're going to

06:47borrow another trillion dollars this year, I believe, to cover the difference.

06:51The only way we can solve that problem is be aware that we got to keep the economy growing.

06:55All of us want the economy to grow. We got to look for a way to generate additional revenue.

07:01Take Social Security, for example. It's a relatively easy problem to solve. You are

07:05going to have to raise some additional revenue. I personally would like to see lower income

07:09beneficiaries get more rather than less. 40% of them right now, that's all they've

07:14got for income is Social Security. You're also going to have to make adjustments in

07:18the benefits. And for you that are covering this thing, the first thing that will happen

07:23for every single time there's proposals to fix Social Security, people will be turning

07:28out their heads saying, Bob Kerrey wants to move the retirement age back. That's not true.

07:33There's no such thing as a retirement age any longer. We eliminated the need to quit

07:37work in order to get Social Security benefits. You don't have to retire to get Social Security.

07:42There's an early, there's a normal, and there's a late benefit. That is true. Those are going

07:47to have to be moved a bit. You've got your spending, and you've got revenue, and you've

07:51got to balance the two out. It's supposed to be covered for all generations. Seventy-five

07:58years it's supposed to be covered, and it's not even coming close. It's just not fair.

08:05You've got to come and say, we can solve this problem. We're going to have to reduce

08:08the benefits a bit. We're going to have to generate some additional revenue. We can keep

08:12our economy growing. We can make Social Security even more fair than it currently is, but we've

08:17got to be brave. We've got to think of those men who landed at Normandy 80 years ago and

08:23say we've got to act the same way, because it is going to take courage. It's not going

08:28to be easy. The American people have to recognize and appreciate when you've got people, when

08:35they do finally step forward and say we're brave enough to get this done.

08:39You're very clear-eyed here, saying there is a solution, and it's very easy. We just

08:45need to come to the table and talk. Do you think people right now, politicians, aren't

08:49coming to the table to talk about this, because we're living in such a deeply divisive, partisan

08:54time right now?

08:57I think it matters, although it's not the first time we've had difficulty solving problems.

09:05People have opposition to all kinds of things. The solution to Social Security, as I said,

09:11Republicans say, oh my God, I don't want a tax increase. You can't solve it without a

09:14tax increase. I don't want a benefit cut. The Democrats will say, you can't solve it

09:20unless you do. It's not going to ruin the country. Quite the opposite. We're going to

09:25be borrowing substantially less money. More importantly, we're going to be able to say

09:29to our children, to our grandchildren, we don't just talk about you. We've covered the

09:33cost. We're doing this for you. We're not doing this for us. We recognize that we might

09:39win by a smaller amount in the next election. We might even lose the next election.

09:44Again, I remind those 535 members of Congress, I'm sure all of them watched the D-Day celebrations

09:51and the memories brought forth by these old men who paid the price. We praise them. We

09:57recognize the courage it took. If you want to be remembered for having done something

10:01that required courage, you need to do something that requires courage or you won't be remembered

10:06for it. Who do you think is better equipped when it comes to handling the national debt,

10:12decreasing the national debt, President Biden or former President Trump?

10:17I think Biden. Biden is having difficulty answering the question, but he didn't go to

10:21immigration as a solution. No, I think Biden is much more likely in the end, when you get

10:30to a point where you've got to decide what you're going to be for, to make those reasonable

10:34adjustments so those 40% of Americans who only have Social Security get a little bit

10:39more than they currently do. So, yes, I trust Joe Biden more than I trust Donald Trump at

10:46the moment. That does bring me to the next part of the conversation here, which is President

10:51Biden's performance. Unfortunately, you did bring it up. He did say at the end it was a bit

10:57incoherent. He did stumble off on that answer and then landed on we beat Medicare. What is

11:04your reaction to President Biden's performance? Specifically as a dad, always had I mean,

11:11I'm 80 years old, I forget stuff all the time, so I'm not. That happens to us when we get old.

11:18Doesn't mean that we're incapable of doing work. It just means that now and again,

11:22you know, I call you Jane instead of Britney. I mean, that happened. And it was sad watching

11:28it. He was under a lot of pressure. He knew that the one thing he couldn't do

11:32was act like he was old. And, you know, when that kind of pressure is on you,

11:37all of a sudden you're doing stuff to make it look like you're you're older than we thought

11:40you were. I do like that in the next day he said, I am old. I'm not I'm not a young man any longer.

11:46I'm having, you know, I have some difficulty walking. He's got some arthritis. He's I think

11:50in his knees and there's it doesn't debate as well. I think he's got to persuade Americans

11:57that there's whatever cognitive decline is occurring and I have cognitive decline.

12:03It's not shameful. It's just part of aging. So he's going to have to persuade Americans that

12:10the cognitive decline is not sufficient to prevent him for the next four years of being a good

12:14president. Of course, and he was under tremendous pressure at the debate, but the president of the

12:21United States is the toughest job in the world. So do you think he is the man or woman of the

12:26moment right now? Is he the best leader of the Democratic Party?

12:32Maybe not, but he is currently the leader and likely the nominee. So all I've got to compare

12:36him with is the former president, who's also running it for me. For me personally, it's not

12:40a close call. So I think I do worry about him and I was sad for him. It's not easy to watch

12:51an old person have difficulty with something that looks relatively easy. It's not easy.

12:56What was asked of him and former President Trump in that intense environment of a debate,

13:02of a presidential debate. But again, I do think, and he's going to have to prove it. He can't just

13:10put out a press release and say, oh, I have trouble walking. I have trouble in debates and

13:14I'm old. That's not going to be enough because what Americans are going to want to know is,

13:19is the cognitive decline that we're seeing, is it enough to impair your capacity to be president?

13:24I don't think it is, but he's got to make that proof.

13:27So you don't think President Biden at this point should step aside?

13:32No. I've run for office. I've run for Senate. I've run for governor. I foolishly one time ran

13:38for president. You can't talk people into not running once they're in. It's a fool's mission.

13:45He's the one that decided that I want to run for president again. And he's the only one that can

13:50decide that he is or isn't going to run. I talked to multiple lifelong Democrats after the debate.

13:58They were very more than surprised about President Biden's performance. Yes. Yes.

14:04None of us are like none of us are lifelong Democrats. We have to wait till we're 18

14:09to register. Sure. Well, OK, so you've got you've got you've got 18 years.

14:16So after 18 years on the free market, after 18 years on the free market,

14:23from 18 years and up, they were voting for Obama, Hillary Clinton, President Biden.

14:29They were surprised by President Biden's performance. They felt gaslit. One of them said

14:34to me, if I didn't know President Trump's performance as president, I would think he's

14:40more presidential right now. What do you say to these voters who feel angry with the Democratic

14:44Party right now? Well, I don't know. I've never it's not my best behavior to make a decision

14:52based upon anger. It just isn't. I find it to be understandable. I have plenty of it.

14:59And but I don't it's it's the wrong mood to make a decision, especially as important as this one is.

15:06And so what do you think? What do you think is the future for the Democratic Party then?

15:12Because there is this sense of panic after this debate. There is this sense that they're

15:18at a crossroads right now. Do we support President Biden? Look, I think we move on.

15:23Well, it takes me, I think, to a different question than one you're asking. I mean,

15:29I think our presidential nominating process has to change. I think it's been corrupted by both by

15:34both political parties. And it it makes it difficult to select the best the nation has to offer.

15:41You know, they both voluntarily went out of the presidential debate process. That was a

15:46process intended to try to create a nonpartisan environment and didn't work. So, I mean,

15:53we don't have a federal law. The two parties decide when the caucuses are held, when the

15:58primaries are held. They get to decide all of that. And as important as this particular office

16:05is, it's the only office when you go to vote that has an impact on the entire country.

16:09But we have a crazy nominating process. I would, I'd take the power away from both parties

16:15and establish a federal law that determines what's the terms and conditions under which

16:20we decide who's going to be president. How much money? When does the money start to be spent?

16:24All that. There's lots of things that could be done to improve the quality, not just for the

16:30purpose of saying academically it's better, but to increase the trust that people have,

16:34that we have a process that leads to the best two people that we can possibly find to do the job.

16:41Oh, balloons are going up. Did I do that? They agree with you. There's a celebration for what

16:47you're saying. But what is that solution? Did you do that? Did you have the balloons?

16:53I didn't have the balloons going up. I think that was when your hand went up.

16:57But I think that's, I mean, the balloons honestly were an interesting touch there because

17:03I think there is this sense of distrust in this system right now. So what is the

17:09biggest thing that you would say would add trust to this whole entire political presidential process?

17:16Write a federal law that governs the terms and conditions of the presidential campaign.

17:20Don't leave it to the two parties. They have all the power in deciding who's going to,

17:26what you have to do to become a nominee of the party. It's a, it's a corrupt process.

17:31It doesn't lead to the best outcome. It just doesn't. So we need a federal law. You need to

17:35take the power away from those two political parties. You don't put them out of business.

17:39You still have a political party, but don't give them the power and authority to decide

17:43who are, who our nominees are going to be. I know circling back to the very beginning

17:48of the conversation. I know you didn't think that the national debt question was answered

17:53in a way that you would like to see. If there is a debate in September 12th, by all indications,

17:59there is going to be a debate in September. Do you want another question on the national

18:04debt? And what exactly would that question be? First of all, you're very good at answering

18:09questions. You should be asking questions. You should be one of the moderators because you,

18:13you don't, you don't forget what the conversation was supposed to be about.

18:17Look, I think, I think you have to say, you know, I saw you guys do it.

18:23You got to a point you were paying off debt in 2000. What do you have? What is your proposal

18:28to get us back to paying off debt? And if they say, well, we're going to do it with immigration

18:33or we're going to do it with growth, it has to be something that puts a constraint on spending,

18:39which Democrats agreed to in 1990, and has to do something that has some increase in revenue

18:46that doesn't impair growth in the economy. And in fact, in the third piece of legislation

18:51that we passed, we cut capital gains because we believed that would increase investment,

18:56increase the strength of the economy, and it turned out it did. So I think you've got to,

19:00they've got to be very precise that they'll support a plan that includes revenue increases,

19:05that includes restraint on spending, that leads by every expert opinion to us being able to pay

19:11off debt. And if they weren't super precise, and if you were the moderator, I'm sure you would turn

19:16off their mics until they, until they answer that question. I would announce to the public,

19:21you know, I'm, I've both those two moderators, are they going to do the September one?

19:27No, I believe it's either NBC or ABC. Okay, so they'll send somebody from NBC and ABC that knows

19:34how to answer, ask questions, and can tell inside of their bony little heads, they can understand

19:40when somebody is not answering the question, or when they're giving a answer that sounds like it's

19:45an answer, but it's not. They've got to force it. Because if they don't force it, they move on to

19:49talk about gun control, or some other issue, it's all over. It's never put the pressure on

19:54what I think is the most important issue in this in this campaign.

19:58Well, Senator Bob Kerrey, thank you so much for the conversation. I hope you come back.

20:03And we can talk about this more. Hopefully, it will be addressed sooner rather than later.

Former Democratic Senator Bob Kerrey: Biden's Debate Performance Was 'Sad' But He Shouldn't Drop Out

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