Power Players: A New Take on Long-Term Investing with moderator: Moira Forbes, President and Publisher, ForbesWomen and EVP, Forbes and panelists: Tracy Britt Cool, Cofounder, Kanbrick and Les Brun, Founder, Chairman & CEO, Ariel Alternatives
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00For the next conversation, Power Players, a new take on long-term investing.
00:05Please welcome back to the stage moderator Moira Forbes,
00:09President and Publisher Forbes Women and EVP Forbes.
00:13And panelists Tracy Britt Kuhl, Co-Founder Canbrick.
00:17And Les Braun, Founder, Chairman and CEO Ariel Alternatives.
00:24Hello again, everybody.
00:27Can't get me off the stage right now.
00:30I'm excited to have this conversation and follow up to the last discussion
00:34on the dynamics of private equity and some of the limitations.
00:40We all know that in private equity, short-term mindsets dominate
00:45and there's very specific and focused approaches.
00:50But what I really appreciate about my panelists is they're two individuals
00:55who are leading efforts and opportunities in areas that have significant untapped potential.
01:02And what really sets them apart is the ways in which they're adding
01:06unique value to their portfolio and building communities and really
01:10different ways to create value creation in ways that drive great impact at scale.
01:17So thank you to you both.
01:20Tracy, I want to start with you.
01:22You began your career.
01:24You worked a decade with the legendary Warren Buffett before striking out on your own to Found Canbrick.
01:32Canbrick has a really unique vision, concentrated portfolio, long-term horizon,
01:38looking at operational excellence, shareholder value and the like.
01:42Can you walk us through the philosophy behind this approach,
01:47focus on middle markets and why the work you're doing is still such an outlier
01:52vis-a-vis the opportunity that you see today?
01:55Yeah, definitely.
01:56So I learned from my dad on a farm the value of thinking long-term
02:00and how when you think long-term, you can build something really special and unique.
02:04And the reality is traditional private equity is very focused on
02:07shorter-term approaches given fund life.
02:09And so we saw an opportunity to take a longer-term view to partnering with families,
02:14owners, founders who want an alternative to traditional private equity,
02:18who really want to build their companies for decades to come.
02:21And our focus is how do we do that effectively?
02:23Being hands-on operationally, partnering with them,
02:26and then really sort of being a true long-term oriented partner
02:32who engages on creating value in the right way versus just focus on selling the business.
02:38And I think so many businesses focus on buying a company and selling it three or four years later.
02:43And the actions and decisions you take in those situations
02:46are very different than if you think long-term, which has been our approach.
02:49Yes, it's been extraordinary the ways in which you built out the firm
02:52and really creating this different model that so many people come to appreciate
02:58and that we need a lot more of in terms of building really sustainable,
03:02great companies in this country.
03:05Les, you believe that solving inequality means building businesses,
03:10not just buying and selling companies.
03:12We're all very familiar with aerial investments,
03:15but aerial alternatives, you call it the next generation of impact investing.
03:20That's matching people with capital and building really sustainable,
03:24scalable, high quality businesses.
03:27I love your model.
03:29It's very, very different.
03:30And I think it's taking a really unique approach
03:33in terms of solving for these dynamics at place.
03:36Well, thank you.
03:37You know, kind of like Tracy,
03:40we're big believers in long-term holes and the value of compounding,
03:45which is really where money is made.
03:47No one has ever bought groceries with IRR, as far as I can tell.
03:50You're buying it with multiples of invested capital.
03:53And the way you increase those multiples of invested capital
03:55is having the opportunity to build, create value and grow those businesses.
03:58And so that's the approach that we're taking
04:01with a view towards also targeting communities
04:04that historically have not benefited from capital inflows on every level,
04:10whether it's the employee stack, whether it's the owners,
04:13whatever it happens to be, but having a long-term view of that
04:16and to effectively create the model or recreate the model
04:21that Tracy comes from the background of with Warren.
04:24So we're a Danaher in the making in many respects.
04:28And can you just give an example of the ways
04:31in which one of your first investments,
04:33you want underrepresented communities to helm a business,
04:37but there may not necessarily be that talent within the business at the moment.
04:41Correct.
04:41So there's a large pool of talent within the broad corporate American diaspora,
04:48many of whom, there are only Fortune 500 CEO jobs,
04:53lots of talent looking for those jobs.
04:55Most of them will not have an opportunity,
04:58but many of whom are very talented executives
05:01with a desire to not only create wealth for themselves,
05:03but to show what it is that they can do.
05:06And hopefully with our model, as we acquire enterprises
05:09and we begin to, where appropriate,
05:11so it's not that we are in any way, shape or form blackwashing,
05:15to reverse the phrase, the executive stack,
05:19but rather saying, as in any private equity organization,
05:21to the extent that you're looking at a model
05:24where you think that part of what will create value
05:26is improvement or enhancement of that executive stack
05:30and operational talent,
05:32we're looking for that talent in maybe different places
05:35than mainstream firms might.
05:37One of the things I admire about both of your firms
05:40is this core principle and focus and emphasis
05:43on the power of partnerships
05:45and really seeing these collaborative models
05:49as ways to unlock huge, huge opportunity.
05:53Tracy, you've spent a lot of time
05:56building out an ecosystem for your portfolio companies.
06:00I think you said in our conversation
06:02that you had over 2,000 business leaders
06:05within this network that come together,
06:06collaborate, and the like.
06:08How does this ecosystem create value?
06:12And can you give us specifics around
06:14how they can actually activate
06:16and enhance each other's opportunities?
06:18What does that look like in practice?
06:20Absolutely.
06:21So we bring together 2,000 CEOs, owners of midsize companies
06:25who are all struggling with the same things.
06:26How do I hire the right people into my company?
06:28How do I think about my strategy?
06:30How do I execute on that?
06:31What KPI should I have?
06:32And these are common challenges that I faced
06:34when I was a CEO and I think a lot of CEOs face,
06:37but they don't always have the resources,
06:39support, mentorship to do that.
06:41So we convene people together for in-person events,
06:44virtual sort of program, content sharing,
06:46and we share our own resources with them.
06:49And a couple of tangible examples,
06:51we did a compensation benchmarking survey recently
06:53where everyone was able to contribute
06:55their compensation from their businesses.
06:57We aggregated it, no cost to our participants,
06:59and then shared it back out to those who participated.
07:02We did a similar family and founder business survey
07:04where they could share their own experiences
07:08of what it's like, what their ownership structure is,
07:10what they're struggling with,
07:11and then learn from each other.
07:13And then we connect people.
07:14So oftentimes we find people
07:16who are working through an ERP implementation
07:18and they want to connect with other people
07:20going through that.
07:20Or we recently did a deep dive on strategic planning
07:24where we went deep on what you should be thinking about
07:27in strategic planning within your company
07:29and share those resources and that information.
07:31Stuff that we wanted when we were CEOs
07:33that is incredibly valuable and helpful.
07:36And so through the community, we're doing that.
07:38And our view is we're building relationships
07:40over a long period of time
07:42and we can get to know companies,
07:43they can get to know each other,
07:44they can get to know us,
07:45and that's really beneficial.
07:47But ultimately it comes back to this,
07:49how do we partner?
07:49How do we help?
07:50How do we add value to not only our companies,
07:53but all the companies that are in the community?
07:55And it's really extraordinary
07:57that the amount of time and investment
07:59that takes to do that in a meaningful way
08:02that actually is true to the inception
08:05of building these communities at the beginning.
08:08Les, you also place huge emphasis
08:11on strategic partnerships.
08:12You're often engaging stakeholders,
08:15both in the private and public sector and the like.
08:18What do you see the role of these partnerships
08:20in driving the systemic change
08:24in your portfolio of companies?
08:25But also what can others learn
08:28from the approach that you're taking
08:30in terms of going outside of traditional communities
08:34and building relationships with stakeholders
08:36who may not have been a part of this previous dynamic?
08:39Yeah, look, there's lots to be learned,
08:41not least of which is that you can reduce churn
08:45in an employee stack considerably
08:47if you have a more holistic approach
08:49to how that works.
08:51The partnership piece is a really important piece
08:53in that I think like Tracy,
08:55we're all looking for what is effectively
08:58an asymmetrical informational advantage
09:00in terms of how we transact our business
09:02so that it gives us a competitive edge.
09:04In our instance, it is in partnership
09:06with large corporates,
09:08predominantly the Fortune 500,
09:10with whom we can have conversations
09:12because they're interested in buying products and services
09:16or they've told us they're interested
09:17in buying products and services
09:18from the companies that we are looking to invest in.
09:21And so we have a much clearer line of sight
09:23on the revenue growth
09:24that could be achieved by our portfolio companies,
09:28all of which should translate
09:29into better benefit, greater profitability,
09:31some of which should find its way down
09:33through the employee stack.
09:34If you look at what KKR has done
09:36in a couple of instances and others,
09:38Ownership Works is a great example
09:40of how it is that you can drive that benefit
09:43down through the employee stack
09:45to the benefit of the owners,
09:47which includes the employees to some degree.
09:50It's a pretty clear model
09:51that doesn't require a whole lot of...
09:53You don't need to be that smart to understand it.
09:56Tracy, the work you're doing
09:58is really building enduring successful companies,
10:02placing these long-term bets and the like.
10:05When you bring this thesis to the broader ecosystem,
10:08obviously you're not traditional private equity.
10:11You tend to sort of attract investors
10:13who have a much longer time horizon.
10:17What are the biggest questions
10:18or areas of pushback you get,
10:20given that you are so unique
10:22in terms of where you sit within this ecosystem?
10:27Sometimes we get a question like,
10:28why are you doing it?
10:30It's so much easier to go out and hire bankers
10:32and go through a process
10:34than it is to sort of build relationships
10:36over a long period of time.
10:37And ultimately our view though is,
10:38yes, it's harder,
10:39but we're building something that's more differentiated.
10:41And as we say to our companies,
10:43you want to have a competitive advantage
10:44that's unique and different.
10:45If you're doing the same thing as everyone else,
10:47the likelihood that you're going to be successful is not high.
10:50And so we're really building something
10:51that's special and unique and differentiated.
10:53And I think our investors have realized that
10:55and they've been great partners with us in doing it.
10:58But I think a lot of people initially are skeptical
11:00of will this pay off?
11:01What does it look like?
11:02And what we see is we get to know families and founders,
11:04oftentimes years before they're ready
11:06to sort of partner with someone.
11:08In many cases, they're never going to partner with someone.
11:10And that's okay too,
11:11because that's fine if they don't,
11:13but also life changes and situations change.
11:15And if that happens,
11:16we want them to think of us as a trusted partner
11:19and know that we were there
11:20before they were ready to partner
11:22and we'll be there even if they don't partner with us.
11:24And I think that's been something that's unique and special
11:26that has appealed to those that we've worked with.
11:28Les, when you go into conversations,
11:31there's been so much around impact investing,
11:36almost to your point earlier
11:38where there's a lot of skepticism
11:40in terms of how you're aligning incentives
11:43and opportunities in a way
11:45that is best for all involved.
11:48When you're at a table
11:49and there's sort of people who may not appreciate
11:52and understand the opportunities and impact investing
11:56that still exist in extraordinary ways
11:58to do the type of work that you're doing,
12:00how do you lead people through those conversations?
12:02We generally start off with the fact
12:05that we're capitalist pigs, right?
12:07I mean, we're all driven by the economic return
12:10that we can drive for our investors and ourselves.
12:14The impact is a corollary benefit
12:16and the impact is one which, in fact,
12:18enhances the return that we think we can create
12:21and drive for our investors.
12:24Otherwise, it's philanthropy,
12:25and philanthropy has a very short shelf life
12:27and has far smaller dollars associated with it.
12:31We're looking to build sustainable businesses
12:34that are able to grow
12:36and ultimately stand alone
12:38in the diaspora of corporate supply chain
12:42and provide products and services
12:44that are first or best in class within their categories
12:48that happen to be minority-owned at the end of the day
12:50as we acquire them,
12:52but that's not the driver of the return.
12:55It's purely economically driven and return-based.
12:59As we look to the future of private equity,
13:01it's clear that it's at the crossroads
13:03for a number of factors that we discussed economically,
13:06but also in the desire
13:07to have a more stakeholder-centric model and the like.
13:12I'd love to get both of your visions,
13:14the long-term visions for this space.
13:16How do you think this area needs to evolve
13:19or better evolve in order to meet both the challenges
13:23but most importantly,
13:25the opportunities of the 21st century
13:28and the ways in which firms like yours
13:31are helping to create a model or a new framework
13:33to think about what that could look like?
13:35Tracy, I'll start with you.
13:37Yeah, so I'd start and say
13:38the short-term mindset and structure of private equity
13:42is very challenging
13:43to create long-term value in businesses.
13:45I think you've seen this in a number of companies
13:47that have struggled.
13:49So I think thinking longer-term and structurally,
13:52having a longer-term approach is very valuable,
13:54and I think you'll see more of that in the industry.
13:57Second, I think the days of buying companies for eight times
14:00and selling them for 12 times is over.
14:01There's a lot more capital.
14:03Capital is commoditized,
14:04so I think you need to actually add value to businesses,
14:08which I think means you need to have more experience
14:10in doing that.
14:11Typically, investors have only been in the boardroom.
14:14They need to get out of the boardroom,
14:15get into the war room,
14:16which is running businesses
14:18and having more operating experience
14:19and creating operating value that way as well.
14:22And then lastly, I think that sellers have more power
14:25than they've ever had in terms of these dynamics,
14:27and so they have more options,
14:29which I think is great for them.
14:30And I think great firms are figuring out
14:33how do you partner effectively?
14:35How do you think long-term?
14:36How do you help them in really meaningful ways?
14:38But those would be a couple that I'd highlight.
14:40Trisha, do you think there is a window
14:43to be able to push,
14:44given the dynamics of private equity,
14:47to be able to have that longer-term perspective
14:49in a way that maybe is not
14:51where you're sitting at the table,
14:53but at least allows for that value creation
14:55in the business itself?
14:57Yeah, I definitely think there's longer-term approaches,
14:59and some have tried to do it
15:00through continuation vehicles or otherwise.
15:02I think some people are thinking longer-term,
15:04but the reality is the incentives are not to do that.
15:07The incentives are to do shorter-term
15:09and structure for the managers,
15:11and so I think it really pushes against
15:12sort of common views in terms of that.
15:15And I think there's probably a situation
15:17where it exists in multiple sort of facets
15:20in terms of the structure,
15:21but our view is like longer-term
15:22is inherently better for the companies,
15:24better for employees,
15:25and ultimately, if done right,
15:26better for investors as well.
15:29Les, how do you think the industry needs to evolve?
15:34I think it is evolving.
15:35I think Tracy is spot on
15:36in that the notion of longer-term horizons,
15:40longer-term investment
15:42has always been the elephant in the room
15:44and niggling in the minds of investors.
15:46I was listening to Suyi before
15:48talking about returns of cash to investors.
15:53My experience has been
15:53when I was running Hamilton Lane,
15:55and they don't want the cash back.
15:56They want to continue to compound the return
15:59unless they need the cash back,
16:00which goes to Tracy's point.
16:02Either continuation vehicles,
16:04longer-term funds that will do dividend recaps
16:06of their portfolio companies.
16:08It's going to start resembling
16:10a much more traditional,
16:12conventional corporate finance model.
16:16Total shareholder return
16:17is what's going to drive the business
16:20at the end of the day.
16:21As we wrap up,
16:22I would love for each of you to share
16:24one of the investments you made,
16:26not just in terms of how it exemplifies this philosophy,
16:30but if there's a lesson or insight
16:32that you learned from this company
16:35or what it represents
16:36that you think could be helpful
16:38to the broader financial ecosystem.
16:40Can you each share one example?
16:42Yeah, Les, you want to start?
16:44I've started each time.
16:45Nice move, Tracy.
16:47Our first investment was a company
16:49called Sorenson Communications,
16:51which is in the business of providing
16:52video relay services
16:54and closed captioning services
16:56and sign language interpretation services
16:57for the deaf and hard of hearing.
16:59Here's a company that has historically been
17:02in a B2C model space
17:04that is entirely dependent
17:05or been entirely dependent
17:07on the regulator, the FCC,
17:09to provide its revenues, if you will,
17:11at certain rates.
17:13We saw an opportunity to partner with
17:16not only the new management
17:17that was being put in place,
17:18but the previous ownership
17:20who rolled over a significant chunk of their equity
17:23in developing a model
17:25that allowed us to capture
17:27a B2B piece of the business
17:29that could, over time,
17:30double the size of the company
17:32within a relatively short period of time
17:35and position that company differently
17:37in the minds of the consuming universe,
17:39particularly the enterprise consuming universe.
17:41It's starting to manifest its benefits,
17:44and so we're delighted with how that's going.
17:47Tracy, what about you?
17:48Thank you.
17:49We partner with a company, JM Test.
17:51It's a third-generation business
17:53started 40 years ago by Ed Morrison
17:56in the back of his house,
17:58and they calibrate industrial equipment.
18:00If you have equipment that measures flow,
18:03temperature, electricity,
18:04you need to calibrate it
18:05to make sure it's accurate,
18:06it's reliable, it's safe,
18:08and they calibrate it,
18:09they distribute,
18:09and they rent this equipment.
18:11Very quintessential family business.
18:13Built it, second-generation.
18:15Scott Morrison took over,
18:17accelerated the growth.
18:18They grew it to about $100 million in revenue,
18:20and then, ultimately,
18:21they wanted a partner to help
18:23you continue to accelerate the business
18:25and continue their legacy.
18:27They talked to a number of partners,
18:29and they never felt like any of them were right,
18:31and they connected with us and said,
18:33we love our business.
18:34We want to stay involved.
18:35We want to be a little less involved,
18:37but we want to continue to be an owner
18:40and participate in the value creation,
18:41and so we partnered with them.
18:43It's been a terrific business.
18:44We've helped them continue to build.
18:46It's what I'd call an unsexy business.
18:48It's not one that you're going to see anywhere
18:50and be like, wow,
18:51unless you're a little special like Les or me,
18:53who probably do like those unsexy businesses,
18:56but it's really unique and special,
18:58and we went down recently,
19:00and we met with their top 40 employees,
19:02and everyone in the room had been at the company
19:05for 10-plus years,
19:06and they cared so much about their business.
19:08It was their legacy.
19:09It was their lives,
19:10and we're helping protect that
19:12and so that it's not going to be bought and sold
19:13and bought and sold every three years
19:16into perpetuity,
19:17but it really can help the lives of the employees
19:20that live in Baton Rouge,
19:21where it's based,
19:21but also to all the markets where it serves,
19:25but I think it's a really special, unique story
19:27and one that sort of epitomizes what we're building.
19:29I'm with you.
19:30Less sexy, the better.
19:31Less sexy, the better.
19:33Well, yes, I would say those two businesses
19:34may not just feel like hearing aids
19:37and the calibration.
19:38Yeah, those don't check the sexy business box,
19:42but as long as they make money,
19:43then that is far, far...
19:46That's our definition of sexy.
19:47Yeah, I think everyone in the room would appreciate that.
19:50That's the best definition.
19:51Following right is eminently sexy.
19:54Yes, yes.
19:55I love that.
19:57Well, I have been a great admirer of both of your businesses
20:00and the ability, again, to have great social impact,
20:03but also to create these multi-generational companies
20:06with great stakeholder value
20:09that really are the bedrock of this country
20:11and really create the resilience
20:13that we need in the decades to come.
20:15So thank you to you both.
20:16Thank you.
20:17Thank you.