In the tenth episode of 'Billboard Unfiltered,' Billboard staffers Carl Lamarre, Trevor Anderson, Damien Scott and Kyle Denis rate and review Eminem’s ‘The Death of Slim Shady,’ how older rappers stay fresh versus newer ones, Big Sean’s career and more!
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00:00Alba came out all Friday.
00:01Slim Shady.
00:02Slim Shady.
00:03Death of Slim Shady.
00:04The death of Slim Shady.
00:05Certainly a death.
00:06It was.
00:07Boom.
00:08I think that's crazy for someone who spent their whole life, you know, all these kids
00:10have been doing this since they were teenagers, maybe even before that, to say when you hit
00:14this certain age, stop.
00:16If you just wrote on a piece of paper what Big Sean's career is, all of that equals superstar.
00:25Let's get into it because we've got a lot to talk about.
00:31Eminem!
00:32Alba came out all Friday.
00:34Slim Shady.
00:35Death of Slim Shady.
00:36The death of Slim Shady.
00:38Certainly a death.
00:39It was.
00:40Boom.
00:41I see it.
00:42I see how this is going to go now.
00:43In case you guys missed the memo, the death of Slim Shady, previously released singles
00:50Houdini, Toby featuring Baby Tron, Big Sean, album loaded with features, Jelly Roll, Skyla
00:56Gray, familiar face, you know, known for cooking up big records with Em.
01:01Yeah.
01:02Always a welcome voice.
01:03A lot of Dr. Dre production.
01:05I think freaking Eazy Mill, that's the artist's line, the Shady, he was on a record as well.
01:10First impressions of this album, thoughts?
01:14I like it.
01:15We're talking about this in the office.
01:16My favorite, I guess, later stage Eminem album is Kamikaze.
01:22It's 12 tracks.
01:23It's very focused.
01:26He's talking about his detractors, some personal things in his life, like the breakup of D12.
01:33And he's like putting the final thoughts on his relationship with, I believe, is his baby
01:40mother.
01:41Great.
01:43Amazing rapping, good features, modern production.
01:47He has like Tate Keith on there.
01:50This I feel like ever since then, he's been kind of like retreading that ground.
01:55And this is this to me is him, I think, finally ending it and like, this is it.
02:00He's going to move on after this, but I think it's too long, but it's good.
02:06That's fair.
02:07Out of 10, what would you give it?
02:09Out of 10?
02:12I'll give it like a 7.
02:15It's modest.
02:16It's modest.
02:17Kyle.
02:18Oh.
02:19Look, I mean, you have thoughts.
02:22Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:23Spill.
02:24Thoughts on the Eminem album.
02:26Um, I agree that it's too long.
02:29I did feel myself getting kind of fatigued by the time I hit Guilty Conscious 2.
02:35But luckily enough, that song is strong enough that it got me through the hump for the rest
02:40of the album.
02:41I'll say that out of all the tracks, that probably one that probably is my favorite.
02:46I do like Toby outside of I think the hook is really stupid, but I do think the rapping
02:51is very technically impressive on the track.
02:53And I like what it does in terms of streamlining a kind of like Detroit lineage with features
02:59and himself on that track.
03:01In terms of this, the overall concept, I think that he could have done a better job tightening
03:06it up.
03:07I feel like he meanders a little bit and also like in terms of killing off Slim Shady and
03:13trying to figure out like why that was a crutch that he used as a character and why that was
03:20something that he feels it's no longer in the moment for.
03:23We've gotten glimpses of that a lot over the past like four or five records.
03:27I feel like from the second Marshall Mathers LP with The Monster onwards, he's been playing
03:32around with that concept, kind of like figuring out what to do with Slim Shady for so long
03:36that for this to be the culmination of it, it just doesn't feel grand anymore because
03:41we've been getting hints of that for basically the better part of a decade.
03:46So for this to be the grand, you know, murdering of Slim Shady, it's like, oh, OK, I'm actually
03:51not convinced that you won't dip back into that on the next record because you do seem
03:56to be talking in circles a little bit in this latter half of your career.
04:01I will say kind of just overall, he sounds...
04:05I think the record is missing a bit of lightness from him, even in the way that he delivers
04:11certain things.
04:12Just the timbre of his voice has kind of this growl to it now that I think doesn't really
04:18serve some of his punchlines in the best way.
04:20But, you know, he's always good for a nice laugh every now and then.
04:23I do.
04:24I did like the P Diddy line, the rapper with no P, like that was hard.
04:29But also like too many name drops across the album.
04:32Yeah.
04:33By the time we got like halfway through, it felt like he was doing the name drops on purpose
04:37to kind of just like have something that people will latch on to.
04:41And it didn't really feel like there was a purpose behind him doing those puns.
04:46By the time we get like the sixth Caitlyn Jenner drop on top of like the song railing
04:50on pronouns, it's like, this is tired.
04:53Like not that it's not serving the character of Slim Shady well, it just feels like super
04:58retreaded ground that doesn't feel fresh enough for me to sit through an hour or an
05:03hour plus of it.
05:04But overall, I mean, I probably give it somewhere around like a five or six good stuff here
05:10and there and flashes.
05:11But I wasn't super enamored with it as a whole.
05:14OK.
05:15Trotter pluses and minuses.
05:18I mean, yeah, I think to Kyle's last point, the subject matter is interesting in the sense
05:22of the larger name that he brings up, because Diddy is interesting because obviously the
05:26Diddy stuff is so, so relevant, so hanging over the cloud of hip hop, like the Caitlyn
05:30Jenner references.
05:31I was so surprised because, I mean, Caitlyn Jenner has not been in the news, in the mix.
05:35Christopher Reeves, man.
05:36Yeah.
05:37On this album, too.
05:38Yeah.
05:39Yeah.
05:40I mean, the references.
05:41That red ruby.
05:42He brings up Columbine.
05:43It's like, we talked about that on the first Marshall.
05:45Right.
05:46So, I mean, I was like, yeah, like that one in particular, I was surprised to hear that
05:50name so many times on this album.
05:53I do think that in general.
05:55Yeah.
05:56I mean, I think it's pretty solid.
05:57Like, if you expect something new from Eminem in terms of, you know, he's branching out
06:01and trying a new sound, a new style, whatever, this is not going to be the album for you.
06:05I think probably maybe going into that, people should have known that it's about the death
06:09of Slim Shady is what it's called.
06:10Like, if you weren't there for the Slim Shady era, it's going to be hard to jump into this
06:14mix.
06:15But in general, I think, yeah, I mean, a lot of the features that we named are actually,
06:20I think, really good.
06:21I was talking about the Jid in particular.
06:23I thought he did on fuel.
06:24Murdered it.
06:25It was like, it was just vicious.
06:27So, vicious in a good way.
06:29So, I like that.
06:30But there is something that seems, yeah, I guess retread.
06:34We've seen a lot of this before.
06:36It's, I think, even going back before Marshall Mathers, I think back to sort of the revival
06:41moment, where, is where, you know, he started to be a little more introspective or tried
06:46to be a grapple with some of the things that, you know, basically that whole album is a
06:50response to a relapse, which is, you know, this sort of, I think, probably one of his
06:54worst albums that most people would pretty much put that, you know, at the bottom of
06:58the pack.
06:59But...
07:00I think Revival is his worst album.
07:01You think Revival is worse than Relapse?
07:02Revival is way worse.
07:03Revival is pretty bad.
07:04Revival is terrible.
07:05I thought Revival was pretty bad.
07:08Yeah, everybody...
07:09I liked River.
07:10I liked the action.
07:11I did like River and Bottle of Water.
07:12Niggas was this close to talking about Revival being an album of the year.
07:16Like, people...
07:17Who?
07:18Who's people?
07:19The Grammys!
07:20Y'all remember that?
07:21Like, that was that whole thing with, like, Arcade Fire.
07:22Like, people were like, oh man, this is Eminem's Redemption.
07:25Like, he gon' get it.
07:26We're talking about the Grammys.
07:27That was the marketing, not the culture.
07:28That's a good marketing.
07:29Yes, unless we forget the Grammys and the culture.
07:34But in any case, yeah, I mean, I thought a little long after Guilty Conscience, I wasn't
07:41sure where we were going.
07:42Yeah.
07:43Because I thought we kind of hit the climax of this album, and now we got a couple more
07:46tracks.
07:48I thought that was something that was at least...
07:51Something at least a little different, like, to see him put this sort of future cast on
07:55it.
07:56And obviously, I mean, growing up with Haley, like, basically through all of his records,
07:59I thought that was a nice sort of bow if this is gonna be the last album or whatnot.
08:04And obviously we saw her get married this year, and we know she's sort of, you know,
08:07moving on in her own life.
08:08So I thought that was a clean touch.
08:11But yeah, I mean, in general, I think kind of what everybody said.
08:15Like, we've seen some of these things before.
08:17There are some new glimpses, some fun things there.
08:19But I don't know.
08:21I mean, I think maybe Kyle's right.
08:23Maybe we needed a little more fun, playful touch.
08:26Like, even if it's not gonna be the Slim Shady, you know, macabre kind of stuff, there is
08:30a real weight to his voice.
08:31And it sounds like a lot of this stuff has just obviously really sat with him for a long
08:36time.
08:37But it's almost just like, is it even fun anymore?
08:40Like, is this a chore, an expectation?
08:43I mean, the weight of what people put on you, that you feel like you have to live up every
08:46time to be this greatest MC?
08:47Well, he raps.
08:48He says that on the album.
08:49Yeah.
08:50There's like a bar where he's like, people expect you to reinvent the wheel every time
08:53you drop an album.
08:54But these other rappers, you know, basically can't rap in the way that I can rap, and people
08:59applaud them.
09:00But I think for him, it's since Kamikaze, which was itself a response to the response
09:09that Revival got, and he was lashing out at Charlamagne Tha God and other rappers who
09:18said that the album sucked and people saying that he fell off and that he no longer had
09:24it.
09:25He's been in that mode for a while now.
09:28He's been in that mode of like, I'm still amazing.
09:32I wrote Stan.
09:33Don't forget that.
09:34I'm still ill with it.
09:37And I hope now that he's gotten out of his system and that he can, to your point, just
09:43get back to enjoying rapping.
09:46Because you know Eminem loves rap.
09:48The guy loves, loves, loves, loves, loves rap.
09:51So I hope this album is him finally being like, all right, it's done.
09:59Also, my dumb ass, I'm getting my re's mixed up.
10:03I'm talking recovery.
10:04I'm not saying no one was Revival.
10:06Not Revival.
10:07Not Revival.
10:08I was relapsed.
10:09Recovery.
10:10Recovery was good.
10:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:12I was like, why is everybody talking this?
10:13I was like, oh, it's recovery.
10:15Recovery was amazing.
10:16That's a great album.
10:17That's a whole, that changes the whole.
10:18We'll allow you to recover on the next.
10:19To clean that.
10:20Oh, that's good.
10:21That's good.
10:22See what you did there.
10:23Yeah, yeah.
10:24Okay, you listen.
10:25But no, shout out to Em.
10:26Looking like he may be poised for a big week.
10:28So let's see what happens.
10:29What would you give it?
10:30I would probably give it a six and a half out of 10.
10:35Some of the highlights for me were Toby gave us, you know, he shot us out on the record
10:41about not being happy about being number five on the goal list.
10:44That's why I still feel like he has that competitive edge.
10:46Yeah, yeah.
10:47He still has that chip on his shoulder.
10:48I thought Fuel was amazing.
10:49Yeah.
10:50Shout out to JID.
10:51And the temporary record you're talking about with Skylar Gray.
10:53Yeah.
10:54Was good too.
10:55I was a huge fan of Haley's, what was it called?
10:57Haley's song on the Eminem show.
10:59So to kind of see that evolution from there to where she's all grown up now, I think it's
11:04super dope.
11:05So yeah, let's see what happens when we get the final tally.
11:09Yeah, I guess two more things on the Em album.
11:12The Jelly Roll song for me felt like a missed opportunity.
11:15I think that when I listened to that song, I just kind of want to play the Jelly Roll
11:19track instead, like his Save Me.
11:21I think if it was a completely original song and them writing a new hook or him just, you
11:27know, just finding some kind of common ground between their two sounds, that still felt
11:31fresh.
11:32I would have rathered that than what we did get from that.
11:35And then on the topic of the name drops again, it was like, I feel like some of the name
11:41drops were really cop-outs.
11:42I feel like if we were really going to play into this being the last stand of Slim Shady,
11:47he should have called out names that actually hold weight in the current culture.
11:52Some new ops.
11:53I feel like outside of Diddy, because that feels like a target that's relatively easy
11:57because, you know, he has all these cases out and we know what the public opinion on
12:00him is.
12:01But like, no name drop for Taylor.
12:04No name drop for Beyonce.
12:05No name drop for people who are actually, you know, major cultural figures in the way
12:09that he used to do when he was in his Slim Shady prime.
12:12I feel like that would have been a bit more interesting than like, you know, Caitlyn Jenner
12:16seven times.
12:19A Beyonce drop would have been...
12:20Would have been nuts.
12:22What could you say?
12:24Taylor, not Beyonce.
12:26A Taylor would have made sense.
12:31It's also not Eminem rapping.
12:33It's Slim Shady.
12:35To make an analog to old Slim Shady, his beef was with what he considered, you know, these
12:43false pop idols.
12:44And I think, you know, Shontay Taylor.
12:47Yeah, I think she would fall more in that camp.
12:50Yeah.
12:51I mean, it didn't have to be like a diss.
12:52It could have just been like a pun.
12:54And if we're going to use these names, like, use the names.
12:58There's a good chance that Eminem doesn't know what is going on.
13:02Again, this guy made a Columbine bar.
13:05Fair enough.
13:06When I heard that, I was like, this guy really thinks it's like 1999.
13:09He's just up in Detroit, just chilling.
13:12You know nothing about tortured poets.
13:14I envy him.
13:17Yo.
13:19The one thing I will say with Eminem, he showed that you could still be in your late, early
13:2750s.
13:28I was going to say late 50s.
13:29He would have came after me.
13:30I would have been a new op on this album.
13:31He proved that, you know, age ain't nothing but a double.
13:36The Brother 51 dropping this album, it's kind of becoming a recurring theme in hip hop,
13:40especially this year.
13:41Common and Pete Rock.
13:42Common in his early 50s just put out an album, LL Cool J.
13:45He's set to drop his album, his first one, I think in like maybe like 12 years.
13:51He's going to be dropping in September.
13:54And then Nas, him and Primo are supposed to link up for a potential album.
13:58So the commonality we're seeing is rappers in their 50s still putting out music.
14:07So I'm curious to hear you guys thoughts.
14:09Is that a good thing?
14:11Is that something like kind of cringe?
14:14It's a thing.
14:15I mean, we've never been here before.
14:17We never had the opportunity to even have rappers have careers this long because rap
14:22is only 50 years old.
14:24So I think it's great.
14:26I'm glad that rappers are still putting out music because like there should be music for
14:30everybody.
14:31You know, rap is like a young they say it's a young person's sport, which, you know, it's
14:35it's the it's the only sport that's like always constantly evolving into something new, which
14:40is great.
14:41And I believe that there's room for that and that should continue.
14:45But just because, you know, I don't people don't want to listen to Yeet doesn't mean
14:50that they shouldn't get new rap.
14:52Yeah, it should still be rap for you if you if you don't want to listen to like Playboy
14:56Cardi or Yeet or like Ian, it should be rap for you.
15:01You know, I think I said at this very table, I think it's funny because hip hop is like
15:06the only genre that does this.
15:08See, I was just going to say that.
15:09I know.
15:10Take it.
15:11Take it a step further.
15:12I want you to take a step further.
15:13You know, there's more to it.
15:14Not my personal trainer challenging me.
15:18Black people do this, bro.
15:20We do this, bro.
15:22We do this, bro.
15:23I mean, yeah, I think I mean, you're right, because I mean, thinking of the R&B stars
15:28and I know people, it's always who wants to, you know, who wants a new Chaka Khan album
15:32or who wants a new, you know, whatever.
15:34And it's like, I'm good with that.
15:35With Smokey Dropped.
15:37To be fair, that was ridiculous.
15:45I have a photo with him on Instagram.
15:46I was like, I only have like 12 photos on Instagram and he's one of them.
15:49He made the cut.
15:50He made the last up.
15:51But let's go.
15:52But yeah, I think with the hip hop, I guess the thing we always, always feel like, you
15:57know, the old heads have nothing to say or, you know, it's just you're past your prime.
16:01I think one thing that's interesting, if you look at maybe the M and Nas dynamic, I feel
16:05like Nas is, I mean, obviously Nas is, you know, insanely talented, go rapper.
16:10But I think the fact that in a way he's been shielded from some of the big commercial like
16:15pressures and expectations that, you know, with that M for somebody has a very big like,
16:20okay, if it's not going to be as good as Marshall Mathers, it's not going to sell, you know,
16:24a million in a week.
16:25If it's not going to have these hit singles, what's, you know, what's the point kind of
16:28doing it?
16:29Versus someone like Nas, who obviously has had commercial success, but more so has crafted
16:33his lane and in the culture and the appeal and the acclaim.
16:37So it's not, it's not crazy when, you know, a King's disease comes out and you can still
16:41put that towards the top of his discography versus I think a cat like Eminem is always
16:46working against the grain.
16:47Like even with Jay, you know, we always say the same thing where it's, well, if it's not
16:51going to be as big as, as big as Blueprint or Life and Times or whatever, like don't
16:59even bother doing it.
17:00I think that's crazy for someone who spent their whole life, you know, all these kids
17:03have been doing it since they were teenagers, maybe even before that to say, okay, you know,
17:07you're only as good as your commercial fortunes.
17:10And when you hit this certain age, stop, like, you know, we don't, we don't even need to
17:15hear from you anymore.
17:16Just hang it up and say, okay, you know, you did your run from when you were 21 to 35 and
17:22we don't, we don't want any more music from you.
17:24Like if you're a real fan of somebody, you know, you should at least want to encourage
17:27and support that and see what it is.
17:29You may not like it.
17:30You may hate it.
17:31It may, it may be worth the conversation of, nah, you lost it here.
17:34You should get with this person to that.
17:35But just to tell somebody to stop, that is like, and we don't do that.
17:41Nobody does that in country.
17:42Nobody does that in rock.
17:43Nobody does it in pop.
17:45Bruce Springsteen still out here swagging.
17:47Dolly Parton puts out, like, you know, people still going for that.
17:50Put her on the halftime show.
17:51Sure.
17:52Let's see.
17:53It's just like, we got to get out of that.
17:54Yeah.
17:55I love it.
17:57I love seeing older rappers do their thing.
17:59I feel like to me, the conversation should have really even been dead.
18:04And I feel like after 444, after the King's disease series, like these were great, really
18:10great bodies of work that showed these rappers working at a different level of, you know,
18:15not just skill, but their lives.
18:17They had different things to talk about.
18:19They were talking, you know, about maturing and being your forties and your fifties and
18:23financial literacy and their kids and this and that.
18:26Like, that's a nice balance to the other topics that might dominate other genres of
18:31rap or others of genres of rap.
18:33I, I really love it.
18:34I mean, even on the female rap side, Nikki's in her forties and she's on this sold out
18:39world tour.
18:40Like there, we should never really want any of our greatest, you know, artists to stop
18:47unless they'd made a decision for themselves.
18:49A thousand percent.
18:50And I think, you know, you guys brought up Nas.
18:54He won King.
18:55He won his first Grammy.
18:56I was just going to bring that back up.
18:57You know, like three years ago.
18:58And then you got to think about also, you got to think about Killer Mike.
19:01You know, you got to think about Michael, what it did last year.
19:04He won three Grammys last year.
19:06He's really hitting his stride right now.
19:08Right.
19:09But I want to pose you guys this, though.
19:10The disconnect we have been seeing, like, you know, we spoke about it on the show with
19:14Meff at Summer Jam, with Busta at Essence.
19:17You know, it is a real thing.
19:19How do you combat that as an aging rapper, though, for those guys?
19:22Well, I think with like some rappers, I think it's less about your age and more about the
19:30product that you're creating for.
19:34For rap, it's such a genre that's powered by reinvention and pushing boundaries.
19:41Black music as a whole is like very future leaning.
19:43We're not allowed to really rest in our laurels and make, you know, old type of music.
19:50We talked about this in one of the earlier episodes, like Adele can make an album that
19:53sounds like it should have come out in like 1962.
19:55And that's like, fine.
19:57If Beyonce did that, people would be like, what the fuck is this?
20:00But I think for rappers, it's also like, are you pushing yourself to make something new?
20:04Nas links up with HIPHOP, who I believe is one of the most talented producers working
20:07today.
20:08He's able to do basically any type of beat you can throw at him.
20:11You can do boom bap.
20:13You can do futuristic pop.
20:14You can do anything.
20:16And he gives him this like really beautiful melody of beats that lean into Nas' comfort
20:22zone, but also like pushes him to do something new.
20:25Same thing with Jay-Z.
20:26Like he made 444, which is like right in the lane of like, here are some soul samples that
20:31we're going to chop up.
20:32But the way that No.
20:33I.D. did it, it was so new and inventive that it, you know, it felt novel and new.
20:40I think like if you're able to make things that feel new and feel like you're pushing
20:45yourself, people will fuck with you.
20:47People will like gravitate towards that.
20:49It's tough to say, you know, a guy like Method Man is great.
20:56Is Meth pushing himself to be, you know, new and reinvent himself?
21:02I don't know.
21:03I think that is yet to be seen.
21:06I don't think that I think the disconnect is like one for that show is like, who's who's
21:12the audience here?
21:13It's Summer Jam.
21:14People are very young.
21:16They're not really here for an old Redman Method Man set.
21:20But also like, what are you putting out there right now?
21:23Right.
21:24For that for that audience.
21:25So I think it's more about the product than anything else.
21:28I don't think it's like these guys just are washed up.
21:31You know, Jay-Z's one year younger than Big Daddy Kane.
21:35That's crazy.
21:36It's pretty nuts.
21:37Yeah.
21:38It's like the music will get to who it needs to get to.
21:41I think we're just at a place in hip hop where we probably need to make a more conscientious
21:45effort to create spaces for different types of rap, specifically for older rap.
21:51Like there should be like an adult rap festival that comes around every summer instead of
21:56trying to fit everybody on the same bill on the same day.
22:00An adult rap festival, I feel like might, like, I might feel some kind of way if I'm
22:04an old head.
22:05I mean, we don't got to call it adult.
22:06We'll give it a snazzy name.
22:08The early birds.
22:10And I was even thinking about like Usher.
22:13Like, it could be like, I guess, a hip hop version of Lovers and Friends.
22:17Yeah.
22:18If it's framed like that.
22:19Yeah, yeah.
22:20And we don't got to be a dyno.
22:21Y'all be insensitive.
22:22I love the old heads.
22:25It doesn't have to be called like old nigga festival.
22:28Come on down to the ONF.
22:36It's just how you market it to people and what you do.
22:39I think, you know, I think Lovers and Friends is a great example of that.
22:42And I think even like the way that it's written about, I think having, you know,
22:47outlets that focus on that in a way that is for people who are of a certain age.
22:53Like there's a really good friend of mine, Jermaine Hall, founded a publication called Level.
23:01And that's only for black men, 35 and up.
23:04And I can't think of another publication that's like that.
23:08But I think as we, as hip hop grows older and we move into this uncharted territory,
23:14as Kyle said, we're going to need these spaces, both in real life and digitally,
23:19where we can celebrate these people in a way that they deserve.
23:23Well said.
23:25Well said.
23:27Let's get into our last topic of the day.
23:30Mr. Big Sean.
23:32Boy.
23:36Y'all didn't, y'all wasn't feeling that?
23:38Okay.
23:39Shout out to Big Sean, man.
23:41He was in New York.
23:42So you know what happens when you come to New York, you got to hit on the radar.
23:45So he delivered an on-the-radar freestyle over Aaliyah's, if your girl only knew.
23:51Classic.
23:52Classic.
23:53I mean, I'm in a great mind, you know.
23:57Classic.
23:58And, you know, went viral.
24:00The one big thing was him potentially taking shots at Kendrick Lamar.
24:05You know, that was a thing.
24:07DJ Head, who is like one of the go-to Kendrick guys, said, no, I spoke to Sean.
24:13It wasn't a shot at Kendrick, but it was a shot at another Gemini.
24:18Oh, Aaliyah Banks.
24:21So I'm curious to hear, you know, one, your thoughts on the freestyle.
24:26And then two, where is Sean in this current landscape of hip-hop right now?
24:30Because I feel like it's kind of tough to define where he is.
24:38I mean, I could go first.
24:41Yeah, I have an affinity.
24:43I love Sean.
24:44You know, what he's been able to do with his mixtape series since back in the day,
24:48before he really popped off with his debut album.
24:52I think Sean has had the talent to be a top five dude.
24:58I just feel like we have not been able to see it.
25:01It would come in flashes.
25:03The Detroit mixtape is a classic.
25:06I think DSP is a classic.
25:10But I feel like he's left so much on the table that it kind of leaves you yearning for more.
25:17Especially what you know he's able to do on the MC side.
25:20He's one of the purest spitters, easily, I would take from the blog era.
25:27And we were talking about it yesterday, just about the blog era.
25:30So I don't even know if I would put Sean in the five of the top five blog era rappers.
25:38Because I hold him...
25:40I'm very big on guys living up to...
25:43He's a potential kind of nigger.
25:45You got so much potential and you just don't live up to it.
25:48Potential is such a dangerous word.
25:50Because you have the talent, but if you can't live up to it,
25:54so you're just living in a world of potential of what you could be.
25:57So what do you think is missing?
26:00I think it's over.
26:01I mean, if we're being honest, I think it's over.
26:04No, I think it's over.
26:05In the sense of...
26:06Someone missed.
26:07Yeah, I think he missed it.
26:08I think he missed that window.
26:09And I love Sean to death.
26:12I had fire moments with him in interviews,
26:14but I think it's a thing where it's like he missed a chance.
26:19But accountability needs to be made, right?
26:21I thought Detroit 2, I listened to it when I first heard it.
26:23I thought it was cool.
26:24Then I went back to it.
26:25I was like, I don't know if this was...
26:27I like Detroit 2.
26:30And I was like...
26:33After what he was able to do with Detroit,
26:35and then the pushbacks that came with Detroit 2.
26:38The hardest record was a Nipsey record to me.
26:40It's tough with Sean.
26:41I don't...
26:42You think about Big Sean.
26:44If you just wrote on a piece of paper,
26:47typed down on a piece of paper what Big Sean's career is,
26:50and took the name off.
26:54He has three number one albums, a few other top five albums.
26:59A massive catalog of hits.
27:02He was the guy that helped keep the lights on at Good Music.
27:06He's dated some of the most famous people in the world.
27:10His resume.
27:11He's just been a pop culture fixture.
27:14On paper, all of that equals superstar.
27:18If we had a Rap Hall of Fame,
27:20are you putting him in the Hall of Fame?
27:21I'm saying on paper, he should be.
27:24He had an album called Hall of Fame.
27:25On paper, the guy should be.
27:27The guy is.
27:28Are you putting him in there?
27:29It's an easier thing.
27:31I'm going to put him in one of the wings, yeah.
27:35I feel like here's the thing.
27:37I guess I got to know what the...
27:38How many people make it to the Hall of Fame?
27:40That's kind of the...
27:41I'm wondering, okay, are we talking about...
27:43How many slots do we got?
27:45We're not Mount Rushmore, but I'm saying...
27:47How many slots do we got in the Hall of Fame?
27:49It's a whole hall.
27:50We can fit him in.
27:51Yeah, we can fit him in the Hall of Fame.
27:52My thing with this is just like...
27:53Draymond Green is going to the Hall of Fame.
27:55Draymond is a fucking fixture.
27:57And Sean...
27:58Sean has a better career than Draymond Green.
28:00He just listed off.
28:01Exactly.
28:02That's ridiculous.
28:03Listen.
28:04So Sean got rings?
28:06Yeah, he has.
28:07The conversation that we had about that, yeah.
28:11He does.
28:12He has a ring.
28:13He has three, Rhea.
28:14Three number one albums.
28:15No, no, I'm not counting.
28:16We're not doing that.
28:17I'm talking about like a classic album.
28:18This is the conversation we had about this very thing.
28:20I'm not talking about classic.
28:21I'm not counting just number ones.
28:22I'm talking about like classic albums.
28:24He has DSP.
28:25You just named two of them.
28:26He has DSP.
28:27I'm not...
28:28Mixtapes.
28:29If that's the case, throw Fab in there.
28:30Fab should be in the Hall of Fame.
28:31Get the fuck out of here, bro.
28:32For all the mixtapes Fab has and Fab has records.
28:35There we go.
28:36That isn't the only way to quantify somebody's career, though.
28:39What's the difference between Sean and Fab?
28:41A lot more records sold.
28:43Like a shit ton more records sold.
28:45That is very true.
28:46A lot of records.
28:48Come on.
28:49They both didn't live up to their potential.
28:51Here's my thing.
28:52I actually think Sean has done fine with his potential.
28:56This music thing is an ecosystem.
28:58We're going to have the giant people on top who get to that spot,
29:02but that cannot be everybody.
29:04And that he just happened to not be one of those people
29:07doesn't mean that he doesn't have a fruitful,
29:09very, very amazing career that he can just boast forever about.
29:13I feel like we just listed off his catalog and his resume.
29:16He's done incredible things and probably will continue to.
29:19I don't think necessarily everyone needs to be at the zenith that Drake
29:23or Kendrick is at.
29:25I'm not saying he.
29:26That big three, that's a whole different discussion.
29:29But I'm saying even the battle for four and five.
29:31Well, who are you putting in four or five?
29:33From that blog, I'm putting Cudi.
29:35I mean, come on.
29:37I'm putting Cudi.
29:38I'm putting Wiz.
29:39I'm putting Mac Miller.
29:42I'm putting Wale.
29:44Okay.
29:48In that discussion.
29:51In that discussion.
29:54You could go currency.
29:55I'm sorry.
29:56Currency.
29:57You didn't want to count the three number one albums,
30:00but you just listed people who don't have.
30:02No, no, no, no.
30:03I'm curious.
30:04What's your criteria?
30:06Rappers, artists, success.
30:09Like what's the.
30:10Like Cudi, because I know Cudi's very influential.
30:12He does something different.
30:13Like he's an artist.
30:14Like in a way that.
30:15Sure.
30:16That gives him.
30:17Okay.
30:18Like that gives him, you know.
30:19I didn't say.
30:20Hey, listen, listen.
30:21The people I named.
30:22I didn't.
30:23I wasn't trying to say they eclipsed Sean.
30:24I'm saying they're in the discussion.
30:25Sure.
30:26Yeah.
30:27Okay.
30:28So I said that four or five slot for.
30:29And again, I'm talking about the blog era.
30:30Yeah.
30:31Blog era rappers.
30:32I think it's very open.
30:33He doesn't have like.
30:34Yo, I'm automatically locked in at four.
30:36I'm not going to put him at that.
30:38That's all I'm saying.
30:39I said the discussion is open to where you have a Cudi.
30:42You have a Wale.
30:43I think Wale and Sean.
30:44I think you could.
30:45You know, you could.
30:46What?
30:47I think it's a debate.
30:48Not to me.
30:49I don't.
30:50I like Wale a lot.
30:51And I think Wale is great.
30:52I love.
30:53I think Wale is probably the best.
30:54Rapper who makes those like 90s R&B songs.
30:55There's like nine.
30:56There's like songs with like, you know.
30:57Like an R&B person on it.
30:58You want to talk about.
30:59They can just give a participation award.
31:00Those songs are amazing.
31:01He has amazing singles.
31:02Yo, I love the album about nothing and the music.
31:03I love it.
31:04I love it.
31:05I love it.
31:06I love it.
31:07I love it.
31:08I love it.
31:09I love the album about nothing and the mixtape about nothing.
31:12I think he's made great, great music over there.
31:15His career he said he was spinning on chill.
31:18Let's go on shows.
31:19Huh?
31:20Oh, that's it.
31:21Amazing.
31:22He no, one can fuck with him when it comes to making those type of songs.
31:25I don't think so.
31:26But now I think Sean is just like a magnitude more successful than he is and not and not
31:30just like counting success as success only because you know Wiz is.
31:34Also, you his singles are massive.
31:36It's had him.
31:37like, just rapping ability.
31:39Oh, we're talking about rapping ability.
31:41I'm saying, the rapping ability combined with his ability
31:45to make hits, crafting and crafting albums,
31:49I think Big Sean is way better than we're
31:53giving him credit for.
31:54I remember when he was on tour with Cole
31:57and he had the, not the opening slot,
31:59but he went on before Cole.
32:00He was at the Garden.
32:01He's a great performer, by the way.
32:03I don't know what to expect.
32:03I'd never seen him on a big stage before.
32:06It was incredible.
32:07He had, it was just a string of hits.
32:11And I don't mean like, oh, I remember that song.
32:13It was just like, people were rapping out loud.
32:16He could have just turned the mic off
32:18and just let the crowd rap it.
32:20And I don't think, you know, I, as a disclosure,
32:24J. Cole is a friend.
32:26And I don't think he could have done that at that time.
32:28Question, how long ago was that?
32:31I don't know, maybe 10 years ago.
32:34But what bearing does that have?
32:36It's not, he said, a prosecution arrest.
32:38What bearing does that have?
32:39No, all I'm saying is if you were to do that now,
32:41the same shit would happen 10 years later.
32:43He's not going to be at the Garden 10 years later.
32:46Is Sean going to get a number one album this time around?
32:48I don't know.
32:50That's fully dependent on timing.
32:51Since y'all throwing out, he had three number one albums.
32:54OK, so is he going to get a number one album this time?
32:56He can.
32:57He's not.
32:57He can.
32:58He is not.
32:59He can.
33:00Let it be a relatively weak week, but yes, he can.
33:02Sean, I love you, brother.
33:05I wanted to give Sean a cover, too.
33:07I love Sean.
33:07He is not getting a number one album.
33:09In 2024, 25, he's not getting a number one album.
33:12Unless it's one of those number one albums,
33:14he pushes 60K, it's a dead week.
33:16All he used to do was get another bounce back type shit
33:19and release it while the song's still hot, he'll be fine.
33:22I mean, yeah, but to get another bounce back, that's a-
33:26I need you to pull your card out, brother.
33:28Can you do me a favor?
33:29Tell me the last top 40 Big Sean record.
33:32It's probably I don't fuck with you.
33:34It's probably I don't fuck with you.
33:35It is not Sean.
33:36Something from Detroit you had to have gotten top 40.
33:38Nope.
33:39I'm number one, though.
33:40I mean, we're not talking Noam Chomsky.
33:42You know what?
33:42Are we talking Toby?
33:44No.
33:44Toby wins.
33:45I'm talking solo Sean.
33:47I'm talking lead Sean record.
33:49Oh.
33:50I want to add.
33:51Oh.
33:51I want to bring up stats.
33:53Regardless, I want to add a third classic to his catalog
33:56that we haven't spoken about yet, 2088.
33:58We got to bring that one up.
33:59That's true.
34:00It was the moment.
34:01It was the moment.
34:02I feel like that is also a really interesting chapter
34:04in his career in terms of how many people would be able to
34:07link up with an R&B girl, put out a joint album that strong
34:11that has such a hold on people to this day.
34:13I agree.
34:13I feel like that's to his credit as well.
34:16And I feel like what I would do, him and Jhene.
34:20Jhene's having a moment right now on tour,
34:21doing arena tours.
34:23Perfect time to just link back up.
34:24You guys had the kid do that joint project,
34:27the sequel that they've been talking about doing
34:30for some time.
34:30Come back with the album.
34:32I'm going to be fair, Sean.
34:33It was bad timing for him to put out that record he did
34:35during the feud because that shit just got washed away.
34:37Good record.
34:38Good record.
34:39He couldn't have predicted.
34:40Right.
34:41He was going to blow up like that.
34:43You just have very bad luck.
34:44Yeah.
34:45Sean, I'm still checking for you, bro.
34:47But it's also like, all right.
34:48So if he's-
34:49I did a whole live trial of it.
34:51I think the last-
34:52But a record.
34:53Just like a quick cruise, his moves that went 38.
34:56Yeah.
34:57From I Decided.
34:58But-
34:59You said what record?
35:00Moves.
35:01Yeah, Moves.
35:02I Decided.
35:03Moves, Moves, Moves.
35:04I Decided was 2016.
35:05Moves, No Favors, Bounce Back.
35:05I Decided was 2016.
35:062017.
35:07The answer to your question is 2017.
35:08Sure.
35:09But like-
35:10Yes.
35:10That's seven years.
35:11But who else in that conversation-
35:13Wale, On Chill was what, 20-
35:152020.
35:16And then what did that album do?
35:18What did the record do?
35:19But you're like, you're compartmentalizing Sean's success.
35:22That's a platinum record.
35:23No, no, no, no.
35:24But like, using one stat to like,
35:25make everyone else seem amazing.
35:26But I'm saying that's seven years ago.
35:27That's seven years ago versus a record that was four-
35:29That was a top 20 record?
35:30That was a top-
35:31Hold on, you're giving me a number 38 record.
35:33Okay, but at today's point, I mean, it's like,
35:35okay, this album moment versus, you know,
35:38a sort of one-off song that was a huge song,
35:40but it's, of Wale's time, it's an outlier of that era.
35:45Can you tell me the last big Sean album that was fire?
35:49You can say DSP.
35:51That was 2014.
35:52No, I have to look.
35:56I feel like I'd like to know
35:56if I decided to say that it was fire.
36:002016.
36:01And I said I liked Detroit, too.
36:02Oh yeah, I liked Detroit, too.
36:03Yeah, yeah.
36:05And it was number one album.
36:07Bloop.
36:08Boom.
36:09Sean, we love you, man.
36:10No, he clearly does not love you.
36:13I love you.
36:14This nigga clearly does not love you.
36:14No, you know what it is?
36:15And I've said it before,
36:16I'm always hard on the people I love.
36:17That's all I'm saying.
36:19I am hard on the people I love.
36:20I still want to know, again, what's up with-
36:22I love Wale.
36:23What do you mean?
36:24I just feel like it's just not Clipper.
36:25I feel like as long as,
36:26I really don't know who the right producer would be,
36:28but I feel like if he locks in with a-
36:30No.
36:31No, we're not doing that again.
36:32Because you know why?
36:33He did that with Metro Boomin,
36:34and that shit was trash.
36:34Well, then that wasn't the right matchup.
36:36Metro can't do that with everybody.
36:39Like, so it's a million producers in one room.
36:41But guess what, I'm with Metro after that.
36:42Get the link-ups after that.
36:4321.
36:44Fire.
36:45Future.
36:46Fire.
36:47I just don't like the idea that-
36:49Even the Sean and Hit-Boy.
36:50Nobody was talking about that.
36:52The little EP they got.
36:53I like that, too.
36:54I had to mention it for you to say-
36:56Because you're talking about albums.
36:57I'm just saying in general.
36:58You're making up rules as you go along.
37:00I'm not.
37:01I'm holding to do the catapult.
37:03I'm holding to do the catapult.
37:04Yeah, you're making the move.
37:05The goalpost.
37:06I'm holding to do the catapult, man.
37:07Jesus, you're like javeling the fucking goalpost.
37:10You're just like, over here now.
37:12Like, everybody can't be Cole, Drake, and Kendrick.
37:16I'm not saying that.
37:17So maybe it's just bad.
37:18What do you mean that your career is not a success?
37:20I just think he could have done more
37:23with the talent that he has.
37:24Maybe not.
37:25But my question is-
37:25That's crazy.
37:26That's crazy.
37:27That's not crazy.
37:28You're talking about three generational talents.
37:29The goodest he can be is fantastic, though.
37:31I guarantee if you talk to Sean,
37:33and Sean would say this,
37:34he feels he's just as good as them.
37:36Just luck wasn't on his side.
37:37He could feel that all day.
37:39Just because you're not Cole, Kendrick, and Drake,
37:43three generational motherfuckers,
37:45three people who,
37:47that's three people out of how many fucking rappers?
37:49So you don't think-
37:50Just because you're not one of them
37:51doesn't mean you're not a successful
37:52or that you're not good.
37:53I never said he wasn't good.
37:54People would kill for Sean.
37:56I never said he wasn't good.
37:57I said he had-
37:58That's the point.
37:59People would literally murder for Big Sean's career.
38:02Absolutely.
38:03All I'm saying is-
38:03I feel like that alone-
38:05Could have been more.
38:06That's all I'm saying.
38:07Who's to say?
38:07But what, what?
38:08Could have been more.
38:09What's missing?
38:12I think Sean is an artist
38:14he could have easily had three classic albums on him.
38:17He's not done.
38:18But also how?
38:19What do you mean how?
38:20I'm saying what would have made him-
38:22I feel like if you have,
38:23even him doing the project with Metro.
38:26He had a chance.
38:27You did say two already
38:28that you thought were classics, so.
38:29I just kind of-
38:30Oh, we got a mixtapes?
38:31Sure.
38:32All right, so Fab, Fab's on-
38:33You ain't fucking Fab!
38:35Everybody work on Fab!
38:36That's not the week.
38:37Rest.
38:38We appreciate you guys for kicking it this year.
38:40Big Sean, first of all, bro.
38:42I love you, bro.
38:43It's just tough love, baby.
38:44No, you look fabulous.
38:45I love Fab, too!
38:47And Fab be bullshit!
38:48Fab be bullshit!
38:49Like he wasn't on SADGIRL's record.
38:51Bullshit.
38:52Love you, Fab!
38:54Yo, we will see y'all next week
38:56on another episode of Billboard Unfiltered.