• 5 months ago
War of Lies (German: Krieg der Lügen) is a 2014 German documentary directed by Matthias Bittner.
War of Lies is the story of an Iraqi refugee, whose information about portable weapons of mass destruction passed through the hands of the BND, MI6 and CIA. This information was ultimately used by the US government to legitimize the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Today we know the war was based on a lie.
Transcript
00:00:00What does the word truth mean to you?
00:00:27I know the truth and I know a lot of truths, but what I want to make clear is that the
00:00:48truth is this film, everything outside this film is the untruth, even if it were my own
00:00:55explanations. I tell you this with this honesty and this is the first time that I tell the truth
00:01:02with this degree of honesty.
00:01:03In 2003, the Bush administration called on this man to start the war against Iraq.
00:01:16His lies were leading the world into a war in Iraq.
00:01:19This is Perthball.
00:01:22His codename was always Curveball.
00:01:26His real name was Rafid Ahmad Alwan.
00:01:29He was an Iraqi defector who told investigators that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons.
00:01:33He was a fabricator.
00:01:35A slam dunk.
00:01:36He lied because he wanted a Mercedes-Benz.
00:01:38This man wrote world history.
00:01:40We gave Iraq one last chance.
00:01:42Curveball made the case.
00:01:44Big lie.
00:01:45A bad guy.
00:01:46Continental liar.
00:01:47He simply wanted asylum.
00:01:48To stay in Germany.
00:01:50Fabricated his story for money.
00:01:52He was a poor schmuck.
00:01:53Curveball, responsible for war.
00:02:20Why?
00:02:26I mean...
00:02:35What you can read about me is fundamentally different from who the real Rafid is.
00:02:41The real Rafid.
00:02:50You don't know the real Rafid yet.
00:02:53You don't know the real Rafid yet.
00:02:57One week after his execution
00:03:15For my escape, it was about finding a suitable location
00:03:19to offer the other oppositions Saddam Hussein's slam dunk.
00:03:26You can't see how your own people are being robbed and murdered, and you remain mute.
00:03:49You can't see how your own people are being robbed and murdered, and you remain mute.
00:03:56Did you leave Iraq with the goal of telling your story about weapons of mass destruction in Europe?
00:04:04No. I'm telling you this honestly and directly.
00:04:09Then I'm interested in how it came about.
00:04:17I told you it came gradually, through the conversations with the German secret service.
00:04:24That has developed.
00:04:28So let me explain something so that you can ask the questions deliberately.
00:04:34You pursue a goal, the fall of Saddam Hussein.
00:04:40Then you find a person who pursues the same goal. Do you cooperate with him or not?
00:04:54Actually, I wanted to go to London. The entire Iraqi opposition was in London.
00:05:08Germany was not the country of my dreams.
00:05:25You reach a place where you think democracy reigns, or there is something like human rights.
00:05:38But suddenly you are thrown into this room.
00:05:45I didn't think I would be in this situation without the regime.
00:05:51This is the tent of the Arab League. Saddam Hussein is a traitor.
00:06:05After 11 years, they show up as traitors.
00:06:10They try to hide the relationship between all their friends.
00:06:19I will read the names of those who repeat the slogans.
00:06:38In Iraq, you were only a slave of Saddam Hussein.
00:06:43We live in a time when death has surrounded us from all sides.
00:06:48You know what we do with traitors. Nothing but swords.
00:07:05The man who crossed the border of God was sentenced to six months.
00:07:10The man who crossed the border of Saddam was sentenced to death.
00:07:40On the second day, they brought us to a larger center.
00:07:49You say you want to apply for asylum.
00:07:52Absolutely. What else?
00:07:55Do you want to say that I am here for pleasure or that I want to go to England?
00:07:59You say you want to apply for asylum.
00:08:02That's how it is common all over the world.
00:08:05So I said, of course, that I want to apply for asylum in Germany.
00:08:14We got to the point where he asked me for my degree.
00:08:20I answered, chemical engineer.
00:08:26He asked me where I worked.
00:08:28I said, I used to work for MIG, then I left Iraq.
00:08:33He wanted to know exactly what MIG meant.
00:08:37I answered, military industrial complex.
00:08:42Then he said, okay.
00:08:45And he stopped writing.
00:08:51He said, they will be brought to another place tomorrow.
00:09:03I came to a large asylum center.
00:09:09There were many people there.
00:09:12With different nationalities.
00:09:33The asylum center is located in the center of the city.
00:09:37It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:40It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:43It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:46It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:49It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:52It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:55It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:09:58It is a place where you can apply for asylum.
00:10:02I found my name.
00:10:04There was a black board.
00:10:07It said, I should register in room 116.
00:10:15Usually, the judge asks certain questions about the asylum application.
00:10:19Usually, the judge asks certain questions about the asylum application.
00:10:30He wanted a document from me that proves that I am an Iraqi.
00:10:40I told him, I don't have any documents.
00:10:44He said he would give me a week to get my documents from home.
00:10:47He said he would give me a week to get my documents from home.
00:10:51I have siblings who serve in the army.
00:10:54That puts them in danger. I don't do that.
00:11:00Then he said, there is no asylum in Germany.
00:11:03Then he said, there is no asylum in Germany.
00:11:14I left the room and assumed that within two days I would get a rejection notice
00:11:17I left the room and assumed that within two days I would get a rejection notice
00:11:20and that I would be sent to another country.
00:11:29In Germany, there is a situation where people are left hanging in the air.
00:11:32In Germany, there is a situation where people are left hanging in the air.
00:11:35People have been in the dark for years.
00:11:39They don't get a yes or a rejection.
00:11:45Among us, I wished for a rejection.
00:11:50I didn't want to be stranded here. I wanted to go to London.
00:11:57After two days, my name was back on the board.
00:12:00After two days, my name was back on the board.
00:12:08After two days, my name was back on the board.
00:12:17The building was different.
00:12:20It was more strictly guarded than the courtroom where the first interrogation took place.
00:12:23It was more strictly guarded than the courtroom where the first interrogation took place.
00:12:26There I met Dr. Nouri and Mr. Trippel.
00:12:29There I met Dr. Nouri and Mr. Trippel.
00:12:39Dr. Nouri, an Arab.
00:12:42He introduced himself as the translator of this agency.
00:12:45He introduced himself as the translator of this agency.
00:12:52And Trippel, a German.
00:12:55He said he was from the asylum agency
00:12:58and that he took care of people from Iraq who had a certain academic degree.
00:13:01and that he took care of people from Iraq who had a certain academic degree.
00:13:05He said they read my information.
00:13:08He said they read my information.
00:13:11But I can't prove that I'm an Iraqi.
00:13:14But I can't prove that I'm an Iraqi.
00:13:17That's why they want to do a test with me.
00:13:20But he's not a specialist, he's not an engineer.
00:13:25And we couldn't do the test here either.
00:13:28And we couldn't do the test here either.
00:13:31He said something that worried me.
00:13:34He said it was for my own safety.
00:13:37He said it was for my own safety.
00:13:48Dr. Nouri asked, do you trust me?
00:13:54He said, don't worry.
00:13:57He said, don't worry.
00:14:01He said, don't worry.
00:14:04I didn't know it was just nice words.
00:14:07I didn't know it was just nice words.
00:14:10Like wind in a net.
00:14:21Actually, I was expecting a test.
00:14:24Actually, I was expecting a test.
00:14:30But there was no test.
00:14:33But there was no test.
00:14:36He said we were creating a way of life.
00:14:43In 1985-86, I completed the Al-Kindi high school
00:14:47and then studied chemical engineering at the Technical University.
00:14:51In Baghdad.
00:15:05He asked me where I worked.
00:15:08I said at the Military Industrial Complex.
00:15:15He asked me what it was.
00:15:18I replied, it was the Department of Military Development.
00:15:21I replied, it was the Department of Military Development.
00:15:28At first, I worked as an engineer in petrochemicals.
00:15:31At first, I worked as an engineer in petrochemicals.
00:15:34In addition, I was assigned tasks in Al-Hakam.
00:15:49We didn't finish the course of life.
00:15:52There were other projects than Al-Hakam,
00:15:55but he focused on Al-Hakam.
00:15:58Did you work in Al-Hakam?
00:16:01Sure?
00:16:02Sure.
00:16:19The location was in the desert.
00:16:22The location was in the desert.
00:16:25You wouldn't expect it.
00:16:28You'd think it was a gigantic project.
00:16:35Al-Hakam was completely controlled by the UN inspectors.
00:16:48During the time you worked in Al-Hakam,
00:16:51what did you produce there?
00:16:54During the time you worked in Al-Hakam,
00:16:57what did you produce there?
00:17:00You can produce biochemicals.
00:17:03Biochemical material, not biochemical weapons.
00:17:06Biochemical material, not biochemical weapons.
00:17:13But you could produce proteins.
00:17:17Yes, I'll explain it to you.
00:17:20In this kind of facility, you can produce anything.
00:17:26You can produce animal feed,
00:17:29you can produce for medicine,
00:17:32or you can produce for the military.
00:17:41But if you want to produce biochemical weapons,
00:17:45you need a different method.
00:17:58That means Al-Hakam is the first step
00:18:01in the production of biochemical weapons.
00:18:15Al-Hakam is the first step in the production of biochemical weapons.
00:18:24At this point, Tripel stopped.
00:18:27He became a little insecure.
00:18:35He brought me a receipt and told me to sign it.
00:18:40This is common here in Germany.
00:18:43If you ask someone from the asylum office,
00:18:46they will pay you a compensation.
00:18:49For the time you spent there.
00:18:52But that didn't convince me.
00:19:03I noticed, apparently,
00:19:06they had an open budget.
00:19:09No matter how much, he wouldn't say no.
00:19:12That's how it was. That's the truth.
00:19:18But when I went out, I told him
00:19:21that I had solved the issue for me.
00:19:26I was open to Tripel and told him
00:19:29that I would leave Germany.
00:19:37I had the feeling
00:19:40that a month had already been wasted.
00:19:48And Tripel just let time pass.
00:19:55I never talked about it.
00:19:58Since I was in Germany,
00:20:01I said I didn't want to stay in Germany.
00:20:05He tried to make Germany a paradise for me.
00:20:11I told him, if you want to help me,
00:20:14help me get my asylum.
00:20:30I still remember.
00:20:33The meeting took place on a Wednesday
00:20:36and on Monday I was transferred.
00:21:04In comparison to the previous place,
00:21:07this place was much better.
00:21:10Not a comparison at all.
00:21:1390% difference.
00:21:16Do you feel the luxury?
00:21:19Two rooms, one next to the other?
00:21:22Only to 88% of the people
00:21:25who live here,
00:21:28we have a better place.
00:21:31Only eight in one room, and now I have two rooms all to myself.
00:21:36Just a quick question.
00:21:38Someone comes from the asylum office, offers them money,
00:21:42and transfers them to a better asylum home.
00:21:45Isn't that a bit strange?
00:21:47No, no.
00:21:48You know, the intelligence services here act very differently.
00:21:54The Iraqi intelligence service would pick you up, put you in a cell,
00:21:59you tell them everything you have to tell, and you get killed.
00:22:02I didn't experience this process here.
00:22:05I didn't notice anything like it.
00:22:07I had a person in front of me asking questions,
00:22:09a person who was working for the asylum office.
00:22:11I asked again and again.
00:22:13Dr. Nouri only said that Tripe was from the asylum office.
00:22:16Would you have continued if you had known that the intelligence service was behind it?
00:22:21What did you think was going to happen?
00:22:23What happened? Aha.
00:22:26That depended on the conversation between me and Dr. Paul.
00:22:38He was introduced to me by Mr. Tripe as the person who was supposed to check my data,
00:22:43because I didn't have any evidence.
00:22:49He came from another city.
00:22:56He wanted no mole to be present.
00:23:03Not even Tripe was allowed to be there.
00:23:08He didn't talk much about the hot mess.
00:23:11He didn't say that he was from the asylum office, like Tripe and the others.
00:23:16He was honest with me.
00:23:18He was honest with me.
00:23:20He was honest with me.
00:23:22He was honest with me.
00:23:24He said that he was working for the UN inspectors.
00:23:33So even the knowledge test was just a pretext to get to the main subject.
00:23:44He said, tell me about the incident at the Al-Khairat complex.
00:23:48He said that he had been there.
00:23:51No, he said that he had seen film material about it.
00:24:01Iraqi defectors had said that valuable documents were hidden inside
00:24:05of the so-called Petrochemical buildings in the center of Baghdad.
00:24:13I was an engineer at the Petrochemical plant.
00:24:16I was an engineer at the Petrochemical plant.
00:24:23The management of Al-Hakam, the administration, the construction plans of Al-Hakam,
00:24:27everything was in the 9th floor of Al-Khairat.
00:24:33The investigation committee came in.
00:24:36Suddenly, a loud scream.
00:24:39Evacuate, evacuate, that means you have to hide everything.
00:24:43The Iraqi state played a cat and mouse game with the UN.
00:25:01In this case, the number of documents we had to hide was very high.
00:25:08We couldn't hide everything, so we had to take something with us.
00:25:14We put two metal boxes on the back of the pick-up and brought them home.
00:25:18To my family.
00:25:26And the issue was solved.
00:25:28And because the things were already there, I read them.
00:25:31I read almost all of them.
00:25:33This knowledge that you have gained through these documents,
00:25:38is that the knowledge that you later passed on to the secret service?
00:25:45Certainly, that was the basis, the basic information.
00:25:49For sure.
00:26:02After the first conversation, he wanted us to meet again.
00:26:09I told him, I only have one concern.
00:26:12Before we start with the issue of the armament program,
00:26:16what is the goal?
00:26:20He said, the fall of Saddam Hussein.
00:26:23No matter how?
00:26:24No matter how.
00:26:25Even with war?
00:26:26As the last option.
00:26:28That was the first meeting between me and Dr. Paul.
00:26:34I said, if that is the goal,
00:26:37I am ready to tell you everything.
00:26:51According to my assessment,
00:26:53according to my personal assessment,
00:26:55I am convinced,
00:26:57there can be no change without war.
00:27:00I tell you this openly.
00:27:08This photo is from the war in 2003.
00:27:11Is it true?
00:27:15Why don't you show photos from the 80s?
00:27:21There are worse photos from the 80s than this one.
00:27:25Why don't you show them?
00:27:27Why don't you show them?
00:27:29Why don't you show them?
00:27:31Why don't you show them?
00:27:33Why don't you show them?
00:27:37Why don't you show them?
00:27:44Why don't we look at photos from Halabja,
00:27:47when Saddam Hussein attacked his own people with chemical weapons?
00:28:08The problem is,
00:28:14don't look at the matter with a European way of thinking.
00:28:18I have a goal.
00:28:20I have a goal.
00:28:22Everyone has a goal.
00:28:24It may be that my goal is not convincing for you and the European audience.
00:28:29But the problem is,
00:28:31you come and live under the same circumstances and under this regime.
00:28:35By God, you would do anything to overthrow this regime.
00:28:52Dr. Paul said you have two rooms now.
00:28:59Make one for the workplace.
00:29:05He bought me a drawing set for geometric purposes.
00:29:15He wanted me to design something for him.
00:29:28He gave me difficult tasks.
00:29:35There was a lot I didn't know yet.
00:29:39And what I only learned through books, to be honest.
00:29:44It reminded me of my time in college.
00:30:06What I built between Dr. Paul and myself,
00:30:09the relationship between us,
00:30:13forced me to present results.
00:30:23We were supposed to meet on the 13th of March.
00:30:26And she had prepared a little party.
00:30:30Tripl was also present.
00:30:34He had a letter with him.
00:30:38He congratulated me and said that my asylum application had been approved.
00:30:52What influence did the approved asylum application have on your plan to go to England?
00:30:58It changed everything.
00:31:01Now I was an approved asylum seeker.
00:31:04And I found a person who could bring me closer to my dream.
00:31:08And that's how London came to be.
00:31:11And that's how I got my passport.
00:31:25Right after I got my passport,
00:31:28I had to find an apartment to prepare for a normal life in Germany.
00:31:41And where do you find something like that?
00:31:44To live in a university city and to continue studying?
00:31:51You can't avoid that.
00:31:58I looked at the apartment, but they said I couldn't go in yet.
00:32:03So I moved from the asylum to the hotel.
00:32:11Now, at the meetings while I was living in the hotel,
00:32:14the question arose about biological weapons.
00:32:34Who has the first concept of biological weapons?
00:32:38Who was the first one who used the termination weapons of mass destruction?
00:32:45You or Paul?
00:32:59The problem was that when I gave him my information,
00:33:04I noticed that he was looking for something.
00:33:08He was looking for something.
00:33:13He was convinced that there were chemical weapons in Iraq.
00:33:17He was convinced that there was progress in Iraq.
00:33:26I knew what he wanted.
00:33:33A proof.
00:33:38Al-Hakam was already exposed.
00:33:43And I felt that Al-Hakam had something that would lead me to a result.
00:33:51Do you know the game, you need something and I need something?
00:33:56So we both need something certain.
00:33:59What is it?
00:34:08Dr. Paul said, if you are responsible for Al-Hakam and the UN inspectors come
00:34:14and you want to hide it, how would you do that?
00:34:18How would you do that?
00:34:27I took Al-Hakam's design and transferred it to three trucks.
00:34:39In this way, you can't fool anyone.
00:34:42For example, you can claim that the trucks are five kilometers away.
00:34:47You drive there, but you can't find them.
00:34:49Then you can say that the whole thing is mobile and already somewhere else.
00:35:05He was convinced and satisfied.
00:35:08He knew that Al-Hakam was just a fantasy construct based on Al-Hakam.
00:35:16But we both had the same goal.
00:35:19I tell you honestly.
00:35:26I told him, the truck can be found in Jaffa Nadav.
00:35:30There was the plant for seeding, where I was a project manager.
00:35:39This is an industrial area with a lot of trucks.
00:35:50In Jaffa Nadav, you are specialized in the maintenance and repair of trucks.
00:35:56In the whole of Iraq, this is the place with the most trucks in general.
00:36:04If you take a picture from above, you will find a lot of trucks.
00:36:10But they also told me that there was supposed to be a chemical accident.
00:36:14Yes, there was a chemical accident in Jaffa Nadav.
00:36:18You will find a lot of trucks.
00:36:21But they also told me that there was supposed to be a chemical accident.
00:36:25To make the whole thing more credible, right?
00:36:29There is an Iraqi proverb.
00:36:31Whoever cooks the poison must also try it.
00:36:34He must know it.
00:36:36Every biological project must have losses.
00:36:40You lie when you say there is a biological project, but no one has died yet.
00:36:45You think I'm crazy?
00:36:48Therefore, it is illogical to claim that there is a biological plant, but not to report on victims.
00:36:53This is not logical.
00:36:57So you lied to him.
00:36:59Did you say that this truck exists or that it could exist?
00:37:04I told him that it exists.
00:37:06I'm not lying to you.
00:37:08I told him that it exists.
00:37:11I didn't say that it might exist.
00:37:14I said that it exists.
00:37:16You still want me to put the cards on the table.
00:37:27The problem started when they made sure that the sketches I had drawn made sense.
00:37:35And from then on I was treated as a source of danger and put under observation.
00:37:47At first I didn't notice that I was being watched.
00:37:54Until I saw this Iraqi.
00:37:57His name was Faleh.
00:38:00Faleh was a school friend.
00:38:02We were together at the university.
00:38:07I knew that he was close to the regime.
00:38:12He was accompanied by two people.
00:38:16I was shocked, because he was the last person I expected in Germany.
00:38:21You know Erlang.
00:38:23It's a student city.
00:38:25Not like Munich, where you come as a tourist.
00:38:29There are coincidences.
00:38:31But something like this?
00:38:35Even if it was just a coincidence.
00:38:37I couldn't imagine it at the time.
00:38:39But now I can.
00:38:42Even if it was just a coincidence.
00:38:45I couldn't imagine it at the time.
00:39:04The apartment wasn't finished yet.
00:39:07But I already had the keys.
00:39:11The apartment wasn't finished yet.
00:39:13But I already had the keys.
00:39:16When this person appeared, I felt that something was being played here.
00:39:19But what, I don't know.
00:39:31The next morning I had a triple attack.
00:39:42He greeted me normally and asked me if there was anything new.
00:39:49I had the feeling that he knew something.
00:39:52When someone calls you and asks if something has happened,
00:39:55that confirms that I am under observation.
00:39:58Where else would he know that I had seen someone?
00:40:04He said we would meet somewhere else for a few days.
00:40:08And he would be on his way to me.
00:40:19Suddenly everything changed.
00:40:27Now I was convinced that these people were from the secret service.
00:40:38I was terribly scared.
00:40:44I didn't say a single word.
00:40:52Before...
00:40:54Before I was killed.
00:40:57Before I was killed.
00:41:07Before I was killed.
00:41:17Triple noticed that I was nervous and calmed me down.
00:41:20Don't worry, everything is under control.
00:41:28No matter what he said to me, I whispered.
00:41:31Why didn't you defend yourself?
00:41:33What do you mean?
00:41:36I didn't know what to do.
00:41:55Did they tell you what the blood was for?
00:41:59They told me that Dr. Paul wanted to take blood samples from me.
00:42:03For examinations.
00:42:05In case I had certain diseases, since I came from Iraq.
00:42:10In the ambulance?
00:42:12Yes, in the ambulance.
00:42:15Do you mean in the hospital?
00:42:17No, in the ambulance.
00:42:32Triple withdrew completely from the matter.
00:42:36Completely.
00:42:38I only knew Triple.
00:42:41No one but Triple.
00:42:47He said his task ends here.
00:42:51I never saw Triple again.
00:42:53Never again.
00:43:03You feel suffocated.
00:43:06There are five people around you that you don't know.
00:43:10They isolate you from the rest of the world.
00:43:24They have a method.
00:43:27One in the group is very close to you.
00:43:29He is so close to you that you appreciate him and see him as a good friend.
00:43:43His name is Maximilian.
00:43:46A real Bavarian.
00:44:00They organized excursions through the whole of Bavaria.
00:44:04For example to Lake Chiemsee.
00:44:25They were very nice.
00:44:28You know, we had a lot of time.
00:44:36It was just a way to put me in a certain mood.
00:44:44I was not allowed to make calls.
00:44:53They thought it was for my protection.
00:44:58I just wanted one thing.
00:45:00Back to Erlangen.
00:45:02They said no.
00:45:04Forget it.
00:45:05Too dangerous.
00:45:06Forbidden.
00:45:20I took pictures of every place I went to back then.
00:45:24As proof that I was at a certain place at a certain time.
00:45:47Do you even know what it means to operate with a secret service?
00:45:50You are negotiating with a state.
00:45:54There are thinking heads behind it.
00:46:00It's about power here.
00:46:04In comparison, you are so small compared to them.
00:46:08You are crushed, you are at the end and lost.
00:46:20She brought me to a house.
00:46:22It was more like a villa.
00:46:29They thought the villa was for me.
00:46:31Live in it and when your wife comes, she lives here with you.
00:46:40At this point I was already married.
00:46:53On the way to Germany, I met her in Morocco and married her.
00:47:02Who brought your wife to Germany?
00:47:05The German secret service.
00:47:08They got her a visa, picked her up from the airport and brought her to Grünwald.
00:47:16My wife didn't know anything about the secret service.
00:47:19But she had to put up with a lot of pressure.
00:47:30I didn't lie to her.
00:47:33Never.
00:47:36She knew a little, but no details.
00:47:39But why didn't you tell her?
00:47:42And why don't you see it as a lie?
00:47:45She already had doubts that something was wrong.
00:47:47She had doubts and asked me, but I didn't answer.
00:47:52I just couldn't.
00:48:01The longer I work with them, the more it hurts me.
00:48:18At this time, I had back pain.
00:48:24I don't claim to be clever, but I wasn't that sick.
00:48:28I didn't necessarily have to go to the hospital.
00:48:33But I needed documents to prove when and where I was.
00:48:40I knew the game would come up at some point.
00:48:43Nothing stays hidden forever.
00:48:47But I didn't.
00:49:02They had a problem with the region of Djarfin-Nadav.
00:49:07There was a change in the layout.
00:49:10They noticed it through satellite images.
00:49:14I can draw it for them.
00:49:18This is now a sketch of the entire layout.
00:49:22I told them that the trucks come from this direction.
00:49:31They drive in here and out here again.
00:49:42After I finished the sketch,
00:49:45a wall was built there.
00:49:54And this is where the game came up.
00:50:02I said, you have found a wall.
00:50:05And if there is a wall,
00:50:08no trucks can drive through it.
00:50:11So you can imagine that something is wrong with the story.
00:50:18To check that, they needed a second source.
00:50:25I learned a lot from Dr. Bassel Saati.
00:50:28He was my master. He was my role model.
00:50:31He was my boss at the top of the hierarchy.
00:50:34The Germans and Americans met in Dubai with Bassel Saati.
00:51:04There was nothing like such a problem.
00:51:34But when he spoke to Bassel Saati,
00:51:37it felt to me as if they had hurt our decision.
00:51:42They decided to take a different path
00:51:45and thus put me in an embarrassing situation.
00:51:49I told Dr. Paul directly in the face.
00:51:53Even in English.
00:52:05I flew to Spain and stayed there until the end of the year.
00:52:27What would have happened
00:52:30if the war hadn't happened in 2003?
00:52:35If it had started in September 2000?
00:52:40Then I would be responsible for it.
00:52:43I take full responsibility.
00:52:46If I give a word, I stand by it.
00:52:49Even later than September.
00:52:52Even until the beginning of 2001,
00:52:55I take full responsibility.
00:52:58I take responsibility.
00:53:01Even if it had happened in 2003,
00:53:04I say something to them.
00:53:07I am not afraid.
00:53:10If they tell me to stand in front of the court tomorrow,
00:53:13I will stand.
00:53:16I don't have to be afraid.
00:53:19How do you take responsibility for the death of people?
00:53:30Who is responsible for the one million children?
00:53:32Children.
00:53:35One million children who died during the embargo.
00:53:38Who is responsible for that?
00:53:41Would it have been better
00:53:44if there had been the Saddam Hussein regime until 2012?
00:53:47And another million children would have died?
00:53:50I understand your question.
00:53:53But do you understand the problem?
00:53:56Let's take another person than me.
00:53:59Let's leave Rafid aside.
00:54:02Who can declare a war?
00:54:05Is it possible?
00:54:08Is it really possible
00:54:11that Rafid, this Iraqi engineer,
00:54:14who is nothing compared to the intelligence services?
00:54:17Because if you compare me to an intelligence agency,
00:54:20then I am nothing.
00:54:23Is it really possible that I am so smart
00:54:25that I can declare a war?
00:54:38I left my wife in Spain
00:54:41and flew to Germany.
00:54:44Alone.
00:54:47Actually, she should have come back.
00:54:50But I asked her to stay until the situation stabilized.
00:54:56Max called again and again.
00:54:59He wanted me to come back and solve the problem.
00:55:02But I didn't want that at all.
00:55:05And I refused.
00:55:13We had constant arguments.
00:55:16I blocked and refused every step.
00:55:19Then she started playing with my psyche.
00:55:21Then she started playing with my psyche.
00:56:21Then she started playing with my psyche.
00:56:45From October 2000 until 2002,
00:56:47And until May 2002, I had no contact.
00:56:57For me, it was over.
00:57:01At that time, I didn't know what to do.
00:57:05I didn't know the employment office, I didn't know the authorities.
00:57:08I told them I had no contact with them.
00:57:12Everything was new, as if I had just arrived in Germany.
00:57:18I asked the employment office if I could take a language course.
00:57:23After that, I worked immediately.
00:57:47September 11, 2002
00:58:04It had an impact.
00:58:06If these explosions and events had not happened on September 11,
00:58:10they would not have brought the file out again.
00:58:13Things would have gone differently.
00:58:43Saddam Hussein has a long history with terrorism in general.
00:58:46He used chemical weapons both against the Kurds and against the Iranians during the 1980s.
00:58:50This is a man who represses his own people.
00:58:52States like these constitute an axis of evil.
00:58:59New threats also require new thinking.
00:59:01Based on specific intelligence, received and analyzed by the full intelligence community.
00:59:08I am talking about them choosing certain information over other information.
00:59:12They also acknowledge they don't have the evidence.
00:59:22After 9-11, the information rose higher and higher.
00:59:25And the CIA literally just pulled it out of a safe.
00:59:30It gave the White House totally what it wanted.
00:59:32We know they have weapons of mass destruction.
00:59:35We know they have active programs.
00:59:37There isn't any debate about it.
00:59:42We have facts, not speculations.
00:59:44I think we will find caches of weapons of mass destruction.
00:59:47That threat is real.
00:59:48But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
00:59:50The United States of America will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes
00:59:55to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons.
01:00:08Did you know what was happening with your information?
01:00:12I would like to ask you a question.
01:00:14If Dr. Paul tells me he is one of the inspectors from Iraq
01:00:18who deal with biological weapons,
01:00:20am I so stupid that I don't know that Dr. Paul has something to do with the CIA?
01:00:25Of course he cooperates with the CIA.
01:00:28Dr. Paul is a partner, a partner of the CIA.
01:00:42My wife had only recently returned to Germany.
01:00:47I started working with a lawyer
01:00:50and getting the documents
01:00:52so that the matter would become legal.
01:00:55Her second visit was a legal question.
01:01:12There were big problems with the intelligence service.
01:01:20The whole thing developed a lot of pressure.
01:01:25I was pressured to resume my work with the intelligence service.
01:01:29In any case, I came to the conclusion that I could not go on like this.
01:01:33I can't go on like this.
01:01:35It's not possible anymore.
01:01:37Whatever happens, happens.
01:01:39I can't go on like this.
01:01:53Gerd and Thomas were family.
01:01:55That's what they said.
01:01:57They were friends.
01:02:00Gerd and Thomas were family.
01:02:02At least that's what it looked like.
01:02:08Hans was a decent person.
01:02:10A scientist.
01:02:15He said he knew that I was in a difficult situation
01:02:18because of my decent birth.
01:02:20Then they took it as an excuse
01:02:22that my apartment was too small
01:02:24and they wanted to rent me a bigger apartment.
01:02:30I refused.
01:02:32I didn't do it.
01:02:44Shortly before the end of my wife's visa,
01:02:47they told me that there was only one week left.
01:03:00Either you agree to work,
01:03:02or we reject the application.
01:03:04Then I said, then we reject the application.
01:03:19They knew that I didn't have any money.
01:03:22I didn't have a single cent.
01:03:25There were many forms of pressure.
01:03:39They have the power.
01:03:41Believe me, they are very smart.
01:03:44Unnaturally smart.
01:03:46You can't imagine that.
01:03:50You have to reckon with everything.
01:03:53You have to reckon with everything.
01:04:06Do you know what a Krake is?
01:04:09They are a Krake.
01:04:11They have their arms everywhere.
01:04:23They came to me, not to you.
01:04:53They came to me, not to you.
01:05:09Then Hans called again.
01:05:19It was about the return of the inspectors.
01:05:24He said, we need some information from you
01:05:27for the UN weapons inspectors.
01:05:32It was about evidence, documents, maps.
01:05:37It was about the upcoming investigations in Iraq.
01:05:40It wasn't about the weapons.
01:05:42It was about the weapons.
01:05:52He asked me about the names of scientists
01:05:55and military institutions.
01:05:57Which institution produces what?
01:05:59Which is dangerous and which is harmless?
01:06:04I told him, that's not a problem.
01:06:07But I asked him, what is the result?
01:06:12He told me, he didn't expect Saddam Hussein
01:06:15to stay in power for more than a few months.
01:06:18And that's a dream.
01:06:20That means freedom.
01:06:22And that's a dream.
01:06:24That's why I follow this direction.
01:06:26And I will do everything for it.
01:06:28Why did you do that again?
01:06:30Because you were very disappointed
01:06:33that you deceived them,
01:06:35that you didn't pursue your goals together with Dr. Paul.
01:06:39And now you're back together again.
01:06:42And the reason you're working together again...
01:06:45I can tell you that.
01:06:47I follow everything that leads to Saddam's downfall.
01:06:50I'm honest with you. I'm not lying to you.
01:06:53Again with the background, there could be war.
01:06:56Or there will be war. That was certain in this case.
01:06:59I said it from the beginning.
01:07:01There won't be a change without war.
01:07:03I'm not repeating this in detail.
01:07:05There won't be a change in Iraq without war.
01:07:08That's not possible.
01:07:17There was a videoconference.
01:07:31It took place in the house of the head of the German intelligence service.
01:07:38It was a two-room room.
01:07:40In one part were Americans.
01:07:47They asked a question to someone in another room.
01:07:51Then the question was transmitted in German to our room.
01:07:57The interpreter translated the question,
01:08:00and I only answered in writing.
01:08:03Not verbally.
01:08:09I should explain the construction plans.
01:08:12The biological laboratories.
01:08:17After you actually flew up,
01:08:20that someone said, no, that doesn't exist,
01:08:23did you say again, yes, these trucks exist?
01:08:26I didn't say anything.
01:08:28You were it.
01:08:30I didn't say anything.
01:08:32I didn't say that they exist yet.
01:08:36Please understand me, Matthias.
01:08:39You asked me, I answered.
01:08:42You wanted to have the plans explained by the truck.
01:08:45You didn't ask if they exist or not.
01:08:48And I know why.
01:08:50You want to transmit the message that these things exist.
01:08:56Why didn't you say they don't exist?
01:08:59You should have said...
01:09:01Well, the whole thing was for the liberation of Iraq.
01:09:04The situation was different now.
01:09:07Everything was prepared for the liberation of Iraq.
01:09:11The war would begin.
01:09:13It was fixed.
01:09:15That's why I had to follow the line.
01:09:35One of the most worrisome things that emerges
01:09:38from the thick intelligence file we have on Iraq's biological weapons
01:09:42is the existence of mobile production facilities
01:09:45used to make biological agents.
01:09:48The source was an eyewitness,
01:09:51an Iraqi chemical engineer who supervised one of these facilities.
01:09:56This defector is currently hiding in another country
01:09:59with a certain knowledge
01:10:01that Saddam Hussein will kill him if he finds him.
01:10:31Everything is under control.
01:10:34I'm sorry, but all that's missing is his name.
01:10:38Rafid Ahmed.
01:10:40He told me everything else.
01:10:43That wasn't the deal.
01:10:51I told him I was ready to blow the whole thing up.
01:10:54I'll let the bomb explode.
01:10:56I'll go to the media.
01:11:02That really scared him.
01:11:15I was determined, and they knew me.
01:11:18They knew no one could stop me.
01:11:20Unless they arrest me.
01:11:22If they arrest me and put me in prison,
01:11:25they have me under control.
01:11:27But as long as I'm free, they have no control over me.
01:11:35He immediately took me away from Erlang, to a hotel.
01:11:41They took my keys and said,
01:11:43we've cancelled your apartment.
01:11:47You don't have an apartment anymore.
01:11:51No apartment.
01:11:58I was in a state of...
01:12:00How do I explain this to you?
01:12:04My first thought was Baghdad.
01:12:09More precisely, the house of my family.
01:12:14I was thinking of my brothers and sisters.
01:12:20I was thinking of my family.
01:12:23I was thinking of my brothers and sisters.
01:12:29I imagined a unit would come,
01:12:31arrest my family and kill them.
01:12:533 DAYS LATER
01:12:59After three days, I collapsed.
01:13:11There was this person in the hotel.
01:13:13As soon as I opened the door, he was there.
01:13:23Maybe there were cameras.
01:13:42I was isolated.
01:13:47I'll tell you the truth.
01:13:49I tried to break out, but I couldn't.
01:14:19The first rockets were fired in Baghdad.
01:14:503 DAYS LATER
01:15:02Do you feel guilty?
01:15:09Me?
01:15:10Don't you feel guilty?
01:15:13No.
01:15:19Why not?
01:15:24Why? Because of the bombing?
01:15:32Because of your lie?
01:15:35No.
01:15:40No.
01:15:493 DAYS LATER
01:15:58Hans introduced me to someone.
01:16:01A person named Michael Kreidmayer.
01:16:11He told me there was a unit responsible for me.
01:16:20So only for administrative tasks.
01:16:24They said they would give me as much salary as I wanted.
01:16:36They paid the hospital insurance.
01:16:39They paid the apartment.
01:16:40A total of 3,000 euros.
01:16:45The calculations were based on Thiele and Friedrichs.
01:16:503 DAYS LATER
01:16:55This is a company.
01:16:58They belong to the BND, just so you know.
01:17:02And then I also got this from the secretary of Kreidmayer.
01:17:08These are instructions on who I work for, in case anyone asks.
01:17:193 DAYS LATER
01:17:29They said they had to create a new foundation for me.
01:17:42My name was erased at the employment office.
01:17:44They deleted everything.
01:17:46Everything.
01:17:493 DAYS LATER
01:17:55Their goal was that the name Rafid, or the engineer Rafid,
01:17:59only existed as a ghost.
01:18:01Everyone is looking for this ghost, but they can't find it.
01:18:12It was back to normal.
01:18:19The negotiations with Hans resumed
01:18:21when the Americans found the trucks in Iraq.
01:18:49We found biological laboratories.
01:19:20This can't be.
01:19:26I asked him, where is the third one?
01:19:28There are only two trucks.
01:19:30He said he wasn't found.
01:19:35You can't just find two.
01:19:37There are three.
01:19:39Three have to go back and forth.
01:19:41That's the only way it works.
01:19:443 DAYS LATER
01:19:48There were hints, serious hints.
01:19:51I'm speaking openly here.
01:19:53I could leave this business
01:19:55if I said the trucks were taken to another country.
01:20:02Where should these trucks be?
01:20:05Syria. I'm saying that very clearly.
01:20:133 DAYS LATER
01:20:23I refused.
01:20:25I refused to continue playing this game.
01:20:28The regime in Syria means nothing to me.
01:20:313 DAYS LATER
01:20:41If I had cooperated, I could have lived like a king.
01:21:013 DAYS LATER
01:21:17Did Saddam Hussein have weapons of mass destruction?
01:21:20No, he did not.
01:21:22So where did the intelligence come from
01:21:24that he was building up his arsenal?
01:21:26The most compelling part came from one obscure Iraqi defector.
01:21:29His codename, ironically, was Curveball.
01:21:32Curveball's real name has never been made public.
01:21:36Until now.
01:21:38Curveball.
01:21:42The entire case for invading Iraq was based on one man.
01:21:46His real name?
01:21:49Lies of one man lead the nation to war.
01:21:52He was a fabricator.
01:21:54A congenital liar.
01:21:55He was making up stuff.
01:21:56It was so shady, they called him Curveball.
01:21:58The reason Curveball told these lies to German intelligence?
01:22:01Fabricated a story for money.
01:22:02He wanted to get out of a refugee camp.
01:22:04He did it to be able to stay in Germany.
01:22:06And he wanted a Mercedes-Benz, and he got all of those things.
01:22:09Bad guy.
01:22:10He might be, you know, not all there.
01:22:14They put together the mistakes of all intelligence agencies
01:22:18and put them on the shoulders of Rafid.
01:22:22Look at what the press wrote.
01:22:25As if I were an evil person who started a war.
01:22:30The mistakes of the Americans, the American intelligence,
01:22:33the German intelligence, the British, and all the dead.
01:22:37I had to bear all of that.
01:22:39But that's not fair.
01:22:42I am a victim because my appearance was defamed.
01:22:45Because the real image of Rafid was not transmitted.
01:22:51Why do you see yourself as a victim?
01:22:53You say it was clear to you that there was going to be war.
01:22:56And that was your goal.
01:22:58Your goal was to change the regime.
01:23:00And you say that the regime change was only about war.
01:23:03I tell you why I am a victim.
01:23:06You want to know why I am a victim?
01:23:08I am not a victim because the war broke out.
01:23:12I am a victim because of the enormous pressure
01:23:14that was exerted by the intelligence agencies and the media
01:23:16to destroy me.
01:23:20I am the only loser.
01:23:22If you calculate everything in its entirety,
01:23:25then I am the only loser in the operation.
01:23:29I was the first to bring the victim
01:23:31and the last to take advantage of it.
01:23:33I don't want to take advantage of it either.
01:23:35I'm telling you the truth.
01:23:38Yes, but Mr. Al-Janat, you played along with the game.
01:23:42I'm not sitting here at an interrogation.
01:23:44In an interrogation, questions and answers are something else.
01:23:47We have to connect the truths with each other
01:23:49and reach a conclusion.
01:23:52Yes, but I want to ask my questions.
01:23:55Okay, either you ask and I answer
01:23:57and I won't bore you with too many details.
01:23:59Okay?
01:24:01Yes, please.
01:24:03No, no.
01:24:04Okay, okay.
01:24:05Please say that you are not to blame.
01:24:14Ask what you want.
01:24:17Ask and answer what you want.
01:24:22Ask and answer what you want.
01:24:31Now, there's been another stark reminder
01:24:33that Iraq is far from reaching any kind of stability anytime soon.
01:24:38A further 16 deaths at the hands of suicide bombers
01:24:41at an army base north of Baghdad.
01:24:53No, no, no!
01:24:55No, no, no!
01:24:57No, no, no!
01:24:59No, no, no!
01:25:01No, no, no!
01:25:03No, no, no!
01:25:05No, no, no!
01:25:07No, no, no!
01:25:09No, no, no!
01:25:11No, no, no!
01:25:13No, no, no!
01:25:22Who do you see when you look in the mirror?
01:25:30I tell you...
01:25:36The question is not...
01:25:38You mean the conscience of man.
01:25:43Certainly.
01:25:44I'm telling you the truth.
01:25:46You feel like a hero for a moment.
01:25:49You feel like a winner.
01:25:51I say this with the utmost honesty.
01:25:54In some moments, when I see the elections
01:25:58and Iraqis go to the elections,
01:26:01I feel like I've achieved something.
01:26:04When I see the victims and the blood...
01:26:07No.
01:26:09I wish that wasn't the price.
01:26:13I didn't want this price, but...
01:26:16I'm not a prophet.
01:26:18When you see the chaos...
01:26:30When you see the chaos and your destroyed homeland,
01:26:34are you ashamed of your lies?
01:26:40Honestly?
01:26:42Yes.
01:26:48Yes.

Recommended