Can Thought Truly Be Selfless? || Acharya Prashant (2024)

Acharya Prashant

‍♂️ Want to meet Acharya Prashant?  Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/enquir...    Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books?  Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?...   ➖➖➖➖➖➖   #acharyaprashant   Video Information: 20.07.2024, Vedant: Basics to Classics   Context:  How to cultivate selflessness?  What is selflessness?  How to purify thought?   Music Credits: Milind Date  ~~~

Transcript

00:00Okay, I have two questions.

00:05Yeah, first one from me.

00:08Nice look.

00:09Oh, thank you.

00:10Actually, I was told to introduce myself in case you didn't recognize me.

00:18Yeah, let's take a question.

00:24So the first one is based on something you were talking about a lot a few years back,

00:31which was basically about thought that doesn't have self-interest or self-preservation at

00:38its center.

00:39And now you took a more, maybe a more like, absolute stand regarding the place of thought.

00:46Yeah, yeah, I guess, I guess that's the first thing, if we could explore it.

00:53So is there such a thing as, like, right thought or thought that doesn't serve the ego in some

01:00way or?

01:02The principle that the thought is a servant to the ego will always stand.

01:08It's a very topical question.

01:12Thought will always be a servant to the ego.

01:17So there is nothing called a change in the nature of thought.

01:21We often hear this thing being touted, no?

01:25How to change my thoughts, think positively, become that.

01:29How can I get better thoughts?

01:30No, do not think this way, think that way, no?

01:33Thought is a servant, thought is a shadow.

01:36The shadow cannot betray its owner, its master.

01:44So what changes is the nature of the ego itself, not the nature of thought.

01:52So when we say, for example, selfless thought, that primarily implies that the ego has improved,

02:04loosely put.

02:07Since I have become better, so have my thoughts.

02:13Now I cannot remain the same and say my thoughts have become selfless.

02:18And if I do that, then I am being pretentious and just fooling myself.

02:28But that's what we want to do.

02:29We talk so much of the mind, mind control, mindfulness, improving the quality of mind.

02:39But the mind is so damn helpless.

02:42How can the mind improve?

02:44It's like saying that the cow must ascend to the 5th floor when she is tied to the ground.

03:00Can the cow do that?

03:03She cannot.

03:04Similarly, how can thought gain leviation when the ego center itself is down in the dumps?

03:16For thought to be better, I must be better.

03:19So selfless thought can come only from a selfless center.

03:27And selflessness is not something absolute when it comes to improvement or learning or

03:35being in a process.

03:37Then selflessness is something one can gradually gain, thankfully.

03:42So as one proceeds on that journey, the quality of thought keeps improving.

03:48You don't have to work on it.

03:51You don't have to say, you know, I'm trying to improve my thoughts.

03:57One must note, even if you want to work on yourself, you will have to watch your thoughts.

04:10But you don't watch your thoughts to improve your thoughts.

04:13You watch your thoughts to improve yourself.

04:17The difference is very important.

04:21Thoughts are a bit like actions, very subtle action.

04:27Thoughts are a bit like relationships because every thought has an object.

04:31The subject is the ego and every thought has a particular predicate.

04:37Just as we have relationships in the physical sense, there is me and then there is somebody

04:41I'm related to.

04:42Similarly, thought is related to somebody.

04:45So thought is action, thought is relationship.

04:48I watch my actions, I watch my relationships.

04:52Not with the primary motive of improving the actions or the relationship, but with

04:56the motive that by watching my actions or relationships or thoughts, I can come to know myself.

05:06So even if one is to watch thought and one must watch thought, the objective is not to

05:12improve thought, the objective is to improve oneself.

05:17And there is a great difference.

05:21The primacy of the self has to be accepted.

05:25All else is subservient.

05:29If I am okay, my relationships will be okay, my thoughts, my actions, my words, all the

05:34things, my decisions will be relatively okay.

05:39I have to become better.

05:43And if I remain the way I am, nothing can improve.

05:48And if it appears to be improving, then I am faking.

05:55So I will observe my thoughts, definitely.

05:58Because thoughts will tell me about the ego.

06:02Otherwise the ego is just so subtle, how will you watch it?

06:09The ego is practically unavailable for observation, except when it is in action, except when it

06:15is in relationship.

06:18If the ego remains just as the primordial I instinct, that mother instinct, aham vritti,

06:26if the ego remains that way, who will watch it?

06:30Who will watch it?

06:32So even to watch the ego, you have to look at the stuff that the ego is doing.

06:38How do you catch the rat?

06:41The rat must do something.

06:43If the rat is lying perfectly still somewhere, it will be very difficult to catch it.

06:49So you want the rat to do something.

06:51You throw some sugar and you want the rat to have a relationship with sugar, right?

06:59You want the rat to make some noise.

07:02The rat can be caught only in action.

07:05Similarly, the ego can be seen only in action.

07:10And one of the actions of the ego is thought.

07:13So we watch thought.

07:15So that we can come to the nature of the ego.

07:18And once we come to the nature of the ego, how do we improve the ego?

07:21No, you don't need to improve the ego.

07:25Just seeing the nature of the ego is sufficient to improve the ego.

07:29Why?

07:31Because the very disease of the ego was non-seeing, atmajnan is the central disease, right?

07:39And once you have seen, there is no need for any further prescription or treatment.

07:47Not seeing itself was the problem.

07:50And if you have seen, the treatment has been done, the whole thing has been cured.

08:02So watch your thoughts.

08:04But don't push your thoughts to improve.

08:07They are helpless beings.

08:10Even if you push them hard, they will be constantly looking over their shoulders to their master.

08:17Without the master's permission, they cannot improve.

08:20And if the master improves, thoughts will effortlessly improve.

08:34The other question that I had in mind is a kind of a counter question to this model.

08:42It comes from J. Krishnamurti.

08:46And he has this, I mean, he has said it in quite many ways, but one way he has stated

08:52it is kind of the opposite of what we're talking here, which is that thought creates the thinker.

08:59Thought itself creates the illusion that there's someone thinking and that itself is what links

09:06them together, right?

09:09And this is a bit different from what I guess we take here in general.

09:14No, not different.

09:17Let's take it from this side then.

09:21Why did I say that it is impossible to watch the ego directly?

09:25Because it's not observable in the first place.

09:28Because it is not in the first place.

09:36Now, you see how things converge with Krishnamurti.

09:41There is actually no ego.

09:42There is only the thought.

09:45Remove the thought.

09:46And what remains is not observable because it is not.

09:49And what remains is not observable because it is not.

09:57That's why we always say the ego tendency.

09:59It's a tendency, not a thing.

10:02Yes, yes.

10:03It's a tendency, not a thing.

10:06So, when Krishnamurti says the thought creates the thinker, what he's saying is

10:12that objects create the subject.

10:17Objects create the subject.

10:19And he's very right from where he's seen things.

10:23What he's saying is, Sir, you remove the objects and show me where is the subject now.

10:31From our lives, all the predicates are removed.

10:36Do we remain?

10:39Do we remain?

10:43The mother predicate is the body itself.

10:46I am the body.

10:48If the body is removed, does the ego remain?

10:54Ever seen a bodiless ego?

10:58So, what Krishnamurti is saying, there is just the body.

11:02And the body creates the ego.

11:04And yes, that's very right.

11:06Without the body, there can be no ego.

11:07Without the object, there can be no subject.

11:12You can look at it from that side or you can look at it from the other side.

11:18But I prefer to look at it from this side.

11:21Now, why I prefer to look at it from this side?

11:24Simple reason is, there is the object, there is a subject, and they are together in duality.

11:30I could either say the object creates the subject or I could say the subject creates

11:35the object.

11:36Both are only half-truths, because in duality, the fact is both the sides have created each

11:42other.

11:44Correct?

11:44Body creates the ego and it is in the presence of the ego's consciousness that you perceive

11:50the body.

11:51Otherwise, there is no body.

11:54So, the subject and object are dualistically dependent on each other.

11:58I could say the subject creates the object or I could say object creates the subject.

12:01Both are fine.

12:03But it is more useful to say the subject creates the object.

12:07Why?

12:08Because it is not the object that suffers, sir.

12:12It is a subject that suffers.

12:13I have to look at myself.

12:16I could very well say the universe creates this self.

12:21And then what do I keep looking at if I say that?

12:24The universe.

12:25And that will not solve my problem.

12:27Because the universe is not suffering.

12:29Nor do I associate my I-sense with the universe.

12:33I say there is me and there is the universe.

12:36And I am suffering.

12:37Therefore, the Upanishads say that both have to be watched.

12:42The object and the subject.

12:44But among these two, obviously, the more important one is the subject.

12:49Because the objects are not suffering.

12:52You are.

12:54So, the first thing is to watch yourself.

12:57Though, very interestingly, when you watch yourself, you discover that you are not.

13:02So, again Krishnamurthy is proven right.

13:05You are suffering.

13:06But the more you watch yourself, you discover that the sufferer is a myth.

13:14The sufferer is suffering for no reason whatsoever.

13:18Not even the reason of his existence.

13:21There is only the suffering.

13:23No sufferer.

13:25As the Buddha used to say, there is only the flow.

13:27There is only the process.

13:31There is not even an object.

13:34Internally, is there a sufferer?

13:37If there is a sufferer, it must have a solid permanent identity

13:42at least for two seconds.

13:45But whosoever you are within, he is flowing constantly and changing constantly.

13:49Right?

13:50Like a river.

13:51Are we the same even after two seconds?

13:55So, who do we call as the sufferer then?

13:58If there is no fixed one within, he is constantly changing.

14:03Tell me the name of the sufferer.

14:05There is Julius 1, there is Julius 2, there is Julius 3, there is Julius 4.

14:08Who is suffering?

14:09So, equally we could say nobody is suffering.

14:11There is just suffering.

14:14Nobody is suffering.

14:15There is just suffering.

14:18Think of some kind of a crowded place.

14:26Or think of a road with heavy but fast traffic.

14:34Think of a road with heavy but fast traffic.

14:40But speeding traffic.

14:43Tell me, who is crowding the road?

14:50The road is crowded but there is nobody in particular crowding the road.

14:54The cars are all speeding.

14:55No car is parked there.

14:58That's the nature of the self.

15:00It's a continuous flow.

15:03So, while the road is indeed crowded,

15:07we cannot say who is crowding it

15:08because there is no particular one car crowding the road.

15:14So, if there is no car crowding the road, that means the road is uncrowded, right?

15:18No, the road is not uncrowded.

15:20The road is crowded without any particular one crowding it.

15:25It's a flux.

15:27The ego therefore is...

15:29I will just take one more sentence.

15:31The ego therefore is considered as mysterious as the truth.

15:40You cannot say it does not exist.

15:42You also cannot say it exists.

15:46The ego is maya.

15:48The ego is maya.

15:50You cannot say it does not exist.

15:52You also cannot say it exists.

15:53The ego is maya.

15:59Ego is maya.

16:00You do not know what to say about it.

16:02On one hand, you cannot deny its existence because you are suffering.

16:06How can you deny your own suffering?

16:08You are experiencing.

16:10How can you deny your own experiences?

16:12On the other hand, you also know that the experiencer is a myth.

16:19It's like a dream in which there is a lot of experience sans any substance.

16:27That's the ego.

16:28Krishnamurti is very right when he says there is no ego in the sense that the dream has

16:34no substance.

16:38Yeah, I had just one quick remark to the beginning of the session.

16:48It was like all words and concepts are constructs, but in some sense, we could also say that

16:55duality itself cannot sense in absence of concepts, right?

17:02It's another thing.

17:03Maybe we should move forward, but many seem to emphasize that also.

17:11Yes, yes, yes, and probably a fascination with names would help,

17:25the way names are and how no name can stand without other names and how every name is

17:33just a sound and how we fill meanings into those sounds.

17:55All is a concept.

18:02Happening is a concept.

18:06Even pure seeing is a concept.

18:08Even pure seeing is a concept.

18:15It's a very humbling thing to see that even that which you want to talk of as the absolute

18:25is just a concept and it is from that kind of deconstruction that probably something

18:34very fresh can emerge.

18:47Your friend behind you got curious for a while and then thought I was not worth his attention.

18:55Yeah, yeah, I have to get him here the next time.

19:03I can still hear him there, yeah.

19:07Right.

19:08He will come the next time.

19:11Yes.

19:12Thank you.

19:13You're welcome.

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