Brie Larson, Aja Naomi King Talk Working on Set of Apple TV+ Show 'Lessons in Chemistry' | THR Video
'Lessons in Chemistry' director Millicent Shelton, costume designer Mirren Gordon-Crozier and stars Brie Larson and Aja Naomi King sat down with The Hollywood Reporter's Brande Victorian during a special THR Emmys panel discussion.
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00:00Well, hello, everyone. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Brandi Victorian with The
00:11Hollywood Reporter. I know no one here really needs an introduction from the applause, but
00:16I am going to let everyone just say who they are and their role in this project before
00:20we jump into the Q&A.
00:23I'm Brie Larson and I play Elizabeth Thot. Hi, my name is Asia Naomi King and I played
00:33Harriet Sloan. Hi, my name is Millicent Shelton. I am the director of the P. Rowe episode.
00:48My name is Maren Gordon-Crosier and I'm the costume designer.
00:54Thank you all so much for being here with us. Brie, I want to start with you and I thought
00:58I knew everything about this project, but I felt like upstairs you just shared something
01:02I didn't, which is that you have been shopping and trying to get this made for a long time.
01:08What was it that you believed in about this project so much that you didn't let it go?
01:13Oh gosh, I just think this story, Bonnie's book had it all. It just had it all. It's
01:19so rare to find something that is this vessel to be able to talk about so many different
01:23things so effortlessly. It's about love. It's about the human condition. To me, this is
01:30a huge story about how when our heart breaks, we still can find a way to persevere and carry
01:35on and love again. And there's also all these nooks and crannies of Elizabeth and her life,
01:44her struggles with work, with being a parent. It's so rare to be able to tell a story that's
01:50this big in eight episodes and also with so much care and buoyancy. It was so easy to
01:57love it and it was so easy to fight for it. That's what love is.
02:02And I love how you prepared for this. As you said, so many nooks and crannies to Elizabeth
02:07as a chemist, but also as a cooking show host we see. You were talking to scientists about
02:11this. You also cooked some homemade meals from scratch for friends and family. What
02:16was preparation like for you?
02:18Well I will say, I don't know if I've talked about this yet, so here we go. We'll see how
02:23this works out. Fun fact, when we were very close to getting this show made and we needed
02:31to get a deal done in a very short amount of time, I said to our friends at Apple, if
02:35you can get this done in time, I will make lasagnas for everyone. And I thought that
02:41that would be not that difficult because I'm like, I've made a lasagna before. What's 20
02:46lasagnas versus one? It's very different and it's very hard. And I had to use massive big
02:53pots in my kitchen and it took me an entire weekend, but it was worth it. And I thought
03:00once the deal was done, no one was going to remember, but they were like, we'll take our
03:02lasagnas now. I was like, oh shoot, I got to go to the store. So cooking was a huge part of the
03:07preparation for the show. It was, my friends and family have very fondly said that this is the
03:12best job I've ever prepped because they gained a lot from all of the food I was cooking. But
03:17there were so many great things. Talking with Mirren, getting to understand her costuming,
03:23the period of time is a huge part of it. These are things that matter. When you start to
03:28understand how Elizabeth would have dressed, how she walks, how she talks, hair, makeup,
03:33speaking with scientists, cooking in the kitchen, learning more about what it takes to be in a lab,
03:37all of these things like you're just chip away at it every day. And then one day you're like,
03:41oh, there she is.
03:44And Asia, I'm coming to you next. I love your casting story because when I've talked to Bri
03:50before, when I talked to Lee Eisenberg, the showrunner, I mean, they both were like,
03:53we saw her and we had to have her, which may, you know, rewriting this character Harriet from
03:58the book to fit you, you know, what did that mean to you? And then what was the experience like
04:04of getting to shape this new character that also added this additional context of what
04:08was happening in the world at that time?
04:12That I, and I have to give so much credit to Bri and to Lee for really wanting to
04:19bring me on in that capacity to, to really expand the world. It was,
04:27sorry, this is like very emotional, like just being under this thing is my first time.
04:34And I'm like, wow, this is, this is just such a holy nominee.
04:48Wow. This is real.
04:56I just never thought I could have never imagined this show, this gift of an experience,
05:02this character, this beautiful character that we got to create together, giving me so, so much.
05:10When they talked about wanting to expand this world and have Harriet and, and tell the story
05:17of the Sugarhill community, I thought it was phenomenal, but I, I was also so kind of afraid
05:23that it was lip service, you know, it could have ended up just being one scene. And instead it
05:30ended up just being this rich tapestry of what this woman's life was and what her family and
05:37friends meant to her, what community meant to her and being that they were able to share like
05:44motherhood and, and being able to really rely on one another and getting to see the depth of love
05:50in female friendship specifically and what that can mean. Like it was, it was just, it was
05:57phenomenal. And my, my mind is still blown and I'm just so grateful that I got to be a part of
06:03telling this story.
06:10Y'all didn't die.
06:13The Emmy nominee right there.
06:16Well, I do want to spend some time on, on episode six, which Millicent is nominated
06:22for Outstanding Director of that episode. Yes. And it's really, I mean, a big coin in the
06:29relationship between Elizabeth and Harriet, but I also know from talking with Kat Smith,
06:35the production designer, it was no easy feat pulling off, you know, the protest that happens
06:40there. What was the undertaking of this episode like for you?
06:46Well, first of all, I have to give thanks to Alyssa and to Lee who created the script. And it
06:51was, I mean, it was just a work of art. And my big thing was that I can't mess this up. I have to do
06:58justice to what this, this script is saying and the beauty of it and the depth of it. So that was
07:03really important. Oddly enough, this protest was real, but there's no photographic evidence of it.
07:12And we had a historian that we talked to and I did lots of research, could not find a picture
07:19anywhere, which was crazy. So it had to be something that, you know, just going off of
07:26historically what a protest would have been like at that period of time. And as much as we read,
07:32we decided to base it like off of that. And I think the biggest thing, the undertaking,
07:39and you two both have tears in your eyes, so I'm not going to look at you anymore.
07:44The biggest undertaking is that we wanted to make sure that we showed this and made it feel real.
07:52And we didn't just try to recreate a protest and to exploit it, that it was triggering. And I know
08:00you guys remember it was highly triggering on the day. It was triggering for the crew. Everybody
08:07brought their A game. And these two women, I have to be so thankful for because they were the heart.
08:13And everything around it, I think that people are reacting to was because we approached it from the
08:19inside out. So it wasn't just being outside watching black pain and trauma. It was from the
08:27inside. It was because we knew your character and we knew the love and the friendship that you two
08:33had. And in the end, when Elizabeth is crying, it's because she understands. And we, in the most
08:42beautiful way, we were able to build a gap between when you are discriminated against because you are
08:51a female and when you are discriminated against because of the color of your skin and how much
08:56alike that hurt is and that pain. And I think as friends, they understood it. And that was our goal.
09:03And I think the universality of being able to tell that story was really rich and wonderful.
09:09And I would love if both of you could also speak to that because, you know, Harriet challenges
09:14Elizabeth in that moment. You know, she's dealing with her sexism on the job, but you're like,
09:19there's a whole other subset of women that you're not thinking about. But what's it like for you?
09:23You know, that scene in the kitchen?
09:28No, I mean, that was that was great because like you said, there's such a love. And I think for me,
09:35And I think for me, like that scene in the kitchen is is so much of like, I love you so much. I need
09:41you to understand me. I need you to hear me. And and because they are so connected and they're like,
09:49I know for me, like there was a big part of that where this had to be done with so much clarity
09:53and tenderness because like they've been building this community with one another in this relationship
10:01with each other for years at this point. And and there is a second hand and there is a kind of
10:08stillness in this scene that is that is really beautiful. There's a quiet to it that that you
10:15just you feel how how pressing it is in that moment that if you can't understand this,
10:21it will it will destroy everything we've built together.
10:25It's one of my favorite scenes of the whole series, I have to say, and it was the scene that made me
10:31feel sick. I feel like Millicent a lot of the time you were just like, all right, Brie, you got to
10:39take it. You got to sit in it. You got to sit in it. I was like, oh, I feel so bad. It's like,
10:44but that was the work of it. And those are the scenes. It seems like that that it makes my job
10:51it makes my job a true pleasure because it feels like we get to model a loving dynamic about
11:00something that's really difficult. And that felt really powerful and it felt incredible that we
11:06were able to do that. And it felt so true and complicated and honest. And yeah, that was one
11:14of those days where like that's that whole episode was like this is we're digging into ourselves and
11:19staring into what is really difficult and it's worth doing. But I applaud both of you for not
11:26running away from that because those emotions aren't easy. I mean, I know everybody thinks
11:31they are actresses and they're wonderful actresses, but being able to feel that dumped on
11:37to feel that pain to it's it's not easy to do that. And they're exceptional and
11:43they were willing to go there and I am so thankful.
11:54I'm gonna skip around a little bit. Let's get a little nice.
11:58Marin, I'm coming to you. I wore green today because I know it's Elizabeth's color.
12:03And it's a color that you kept throughout this series. But tell me about first day knowing you
12:10were going to work on this project. How did you approach wardrobe from that point?
12:15Well, I mean, obviously, it's like a dream project for me doing a period TV show, which is not like
12:20not even, you know, it's not three months of work, it's six months of work. And so I just
12:24was able to delve into so much research and also getting into obviously, there's so many good,
12:32great characters and getting into the characters and what they would wear and not having a lot of
12:38photographic evidence. Well, yeah, there's just so many different aspects of the script and
12:44storylines. And it was like, really a dream come true. I would do it over a million times.
12:51And I will just add, this is like fifth, this is my fifth or sixth project with you.
12:58And I've known her 10 years longer, short term. We started on we met on short term 12.
13:06And she's just somebody that it was once we were making the show, I was like,
13:11you're coming with me. Bri brought me, you know, from my name into the
13:17lessons in college. Well, yeah, we see why. Yeah, I owe my life to her.
13:24Well, I owe my life to you too. So it kind of goes both ways.
13:28And I want to talk in episode five, I think it's Elizabeth's first time coming out on set of the
13:33cooking show. She has this pink floral dress on. And she's like, I can't even move my arms to cook,
13:39you know, and it's this dress, because the whole thing is, you know, it's what the executives
13:42think, you know, she should be wearing as a woman. And then she comes back glasses,
13:46pencil behind her ear, and those lab coats that became her signature style.
13:51How did you come up with that? Well, coming up with the pink floral dress was fun, because
13:57I mean, at first, I think it was just like a rip. And then we wanted to create a way to make her
14:03arm stay down, which is not very good for cooking. And so yeah, we thought that was
14:09like a great like silhouette for that moment. And the hair was so good. And then obviously,
14:17the lab coats were, you know, a joy of mine, because started at Hastings with her utilitarian
14:24lab coat that she wore for work, and then he had her home cooking lab coat.
14:31And so obviously, Zot realized that's far better than an apron, and why wouldn't you wear a lab
14:37coat instead of an apron. And so she brought that to a separate six. And then we kind of had fun from
14:46then on. And I would love if like all of you could talk about how important wardrobe was for helping
14:52you, you know, center as your characters for helping you in directing and visualizing, you
14:57know, what you were shooting. 1932. We had to recreate for the Perot episode 1932. And it was,
15:06you were huge. I mean, it started with just the color palette that made me start thinking about,
15:13oh, 1932 is different from 1950. And then what does that mean? And so I think you created fabric
15:21or something. Yeah, we may have. Yes, we did. We rented fabric. That's good. Yeah.
15:32But wonderful. Yeah. And it was, but it all started with the conversation with you about,
15:37well, what is their color palette in 1932? And I was like, Oh, I gotta think about that.
15:42And then it transferred over into the production design of what is our color palette for 1932? And
15:48how are we going to distinguish that from the 1950s? And 1930, the 1930s was a time of the
15:54depression. And how are we going to give these characters depth and, and in a very short time
16:01and flashback. So it all started with you. And it came down to makeup saying, you know,
16:06how much dirt is going to be on their teeth? And I was like, Oh, but it all started with
16:12the conversation about wardrobe. But I still want to talk about, you know, the love story
16:17that's kind of at the center of this series. You know, I sat down planning to binge watch Lessons
16:22in Chemistry, like I do everything. Then I got to the end of episode two, you know, with Calvin's
16:26death, I had to walk away, like I needed a day, I think, actually, um, you know, what was it like
16:32for you, I guess, building that chemistry with Lewis, and then kind of going into this series
16:38of grief? And did you shoot the episodes in sequence? Well, yeah, we shoot so we they were
16:43in blocks. So like, episode one and two were a one month block together, three and four in a
16:48block, you know, with each block, we had a different director. What I didn't anticipate,
16:54because we were sort of building the plane as we were flying it, is that how much changes in
16:59Elizabeth's life every two episodes. And so in particular, when you're first starting a job,
17:07you're just kind of trying to find what feels good and what fits. And you're kind of in the
17:12sense of like, feeling like you're trying to find the character still and drowning a little bit and
17:16figuring all these things out. And then with this show, it was like, once I started to feel
17:21comfortable, it was like, bye, you know, that director is gone, that DP is gone, a lot of that
17:27cast is gone. You're not in that set anymore. Say goodbye to those sets that like I helped,
17:32like bring to life for so many years that I dreamed about for so long, those are gone.
17:36And on top of it, you're playing a character who's just suffering. And so I felt a lot of
17:43fear and a lot of anticipation going into that second block. And there were conversations I had
17:48with Lee quite a bit where I was like, I am resisting change. It's so scary. I feel like
17:55I've barely found my footing. And I was just getting comfortable in my 1950s Christmas and
18:00like, don't take that away from me. And and then it was like, I remember Lee specifically saying,
18:07you have Asia. That's who's coming. You have Alice. That's coming. And I did have like,
18:16the I was able to have a little bit of a crystal ball in that way. But what a what I learned from
18:21that is, you know, we would do maybe, maybe six scenes a day or something like that. And I would
18:28be in a large majority of those. And so you're kind of in this condensed period of time, but it's
18:32all kind of moving around. I'm in college and then it's Christmas. And then, you know, I'm in Hastings
18:37and I'm writing a paper or whatever, all these things. And you're just trying to survive scene
18:41to scene to scene, present, present, present with all these people coming in and out. And I noticed
18:46that I would do a scene that was really brutal to do, maybe really sad to do. And you'd go like,
18:52OK, well, in two hours, it's going to be over. And then you do a scene that felt really good.
18:56And you're like, wait, but in two hours, it's going to be over. And so I felt like I got this
19:01extreme experience of understanding and grappling with time and that it is going. And so it again,
19:09just brought me back to being in whatever it was that I was doing and knowing that if it was bad,
19:14it was going to be over. If it was good, it was going to be over. And then I started to
19:18really enjoy it. And I felt like it became a really big theme and fabric of the show.
19:23And I know when I talked to you before, you know, you mentioned how Elizabeth is not emotional.
19:29And I see you and I'm like, oh, you are a cry baby.
19:31I'm super emotional. I'm incredibly emotional. Yeah, no. Cry over everything.
19:39Yeah.
19:39I cried for today. I think I'm always emotional. And then my job, I think, is just like over these
19:47years, it's like I'm so things are so available to be felt. And so then to play a character who
19:54was just like stuffing it, it was physically painful for me. It made me feel not good. I
20:02don't recommend holding in your feelings. I tried it. It doesn't feel very good.
20:07Well, Asia, I'm curious for you. I mean, Millicent kind of shared a story
20:12of in the protesting and of like your face and kind of like holding back,
20:17you know, the tears that Harriet would probably want to let out, but felt she couldn't.
20:21I'm curious for you tapping into that. Or were there other moments where
20:26you felt it was hard to tap into her or just difficult for you?
20:32It's so funny. This is I know actors probably say this a lot and because it's true. It's like
20:38your body doesn't know you're pretending. Right. And it's like if you've ever been to a protest,
20:44which I have there, there is a feeling that comes over you where it is this shared experience and
20:58it can feel so painful. And yet, because you're not alone, so soothing, all at the same time,
21:05there is something about that togetherness that is incredibly meaningful, even though the thing
21:12that you are fighting to protect hurts. And that was really just in the air that day. I mean,
21:23it was it was kind of funny, actually, because we got into that space, you know, where we're
21:28blocking off a freeway and everyone kept being like, we don't have a lot of time. We don't have
21:32a lot of time. And then it was like, but let's do it. Right. You know, it was really like, let's do
21:40it. Right. And like in everything from like the start of the chant, like that, like Millicent,
21:46like made sure I got to lead the chant so that we were all together. We were all starting together.
21:54And she definitely surprised us with some of the stunt choreography that occurred. So those
22:06reactions for us were very real. You know, my best but not my best memory,
22:13my strongest memory of this is Asia coming up to me and saying, you can't do that without letting us
22:20know. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I told you, you know, they didn't know the woman who gets stomped
22:29on was a stud. And what happened is when we first started doing it, the stunt actors were very, very
22:36downplaying it. They didn't want to pull anybody. They didn't want to be rough. And I said,
22:41but you have to be rough. We have to recreate what really happened. You have to grab them.
22:46And then the extras were like, but I would fight back. And I was like, you can't fight back. This
22:51is nonviolence. You absolutely cannot. You would have to stay strong because we are representing
22:57history at this moment. So I was like pushing in points. I was telling the extras and everybody
23:02to like, don't react, like stay calm and stay strong. And then I was pushing the stunt guys
23:08to like elevate, elevate, elevate. And there is this moment where it all came together.
23:14And I had hidden two stunt people in the extras. And I had failed to tell them,
23:23which was not intentional. And originally they just had pulled the woman out. And I was like,
23:31that's not enough. And I was like, throw her to the ground. And so they did that. And that's
23:37not enough. And then he stomped on her and it was right. And it was, it was, we helped like,
23:45we like, we reached for each other so quickly because we were like, wait a minute, like,
23:50because Brie is very big on like, Brie is very protective of all of us actors on set. Like,
23:55she'll be like, cut. What? Wait, are you okay? Like, wait a minute. You know, like with me,
24:02she was like, Oh, do you need a pad for your knees? Like, you know, like just very,
24:07we know we're going to do this over and over again. We have to look out for one another.
24:11And like, we take that responsibility seriously because we, we know that everyone wants to give
24:17it their all, but we never want anyone being harmed in the process. That's, that's very
24:22important. So of course, watching that, observing that it was like, Oh my God, wait a minute. Is
24:28this real? Is this real? Is this real? And it feels like we were at it. She was bad. Yes. I
24:33mean, she did. I mean, no, we, we talked to her afterwards and her, she was, she was perfectly
24:37fine. It was great. And she was just amazing. She's an amazing actor. She was so amazing and
24:46just incredible. Just, just incredible. That was one of the things that I walked away being like,
24:53there's just such talent and, and people that want that just believed in the seriousness of
25:00that moment and giving their all to depict what this was. And that's like,
25:04as artists, that's like the respect that we take to that. And we don't always get the opportunity
25:09to do it. And it was just, there was so much respect in that room. And I just, it was,
25:14it was heavy and it was, but it also felt like we were so together to your point. We were
25:20making jokes when we could to try and let off some of that steam because we're doing it for
25:25a long time, but we were, we were so connected and it was, it was yeah. And that's, and that's
25:32why I got to walk away from it feeling like this is beautiful. Like what we did was beautiful
25:38because it was authentic and we honored the experience of the people that, that really
25:43lived through this. And that matters, you know, you can't, you can't, well, there was,
25:49there was not going to be any kind of erasure here or, you know, we're not rewriting history
25:55to make it seem as if these things didn't occur. Like it's, it's important to honor the story and
26:01be honest about it without leaning into, like you said, any kind of like trauma porn or something
26:06like that. It's like, we weren't like being belligerent with it, but we were being honest
26:11and that's what made it beautiful and real and true. And, and that's an important part
26:16of storytelling or else what are we doing here? Yeah. I was like, there's nothing else to read.
26:22It's sweet. I feel like I hated it too early. I was like, what'd she talk through this night
26:26about? I'm so in love with her. Gonna bring me to tears now.
26:30Thank you all so much for being here and congratulations on the Emmy nominations
26:34across the board. And thank you all for being here as well. Thank you.