Sam Pitroda, the Chairman of Indian Overseas Congress, in a free-wheeling interaction with IANS spoke on a range of issues including Bangladesh crisis, biggest mistake committed by ousted PM Sheikh Hasina and also elicited views on upcoming Assembly elections in Jammu and Kashmir and Haryana. On India-Bangladesh ties, he expressed hope that the Chief Adviser of Bangladesh's interim government Muhammad Yunus will take all necessary steps to safeguard the minorities in the country and also take necessary steps in maintaining good relationship with India, as existed before. He also denounced the idea of 'One Nation, One Election' and said that India is very diverse and complex for this policy to be implemented, and the country "thrives on diversity, not on uniformity."
#sampitroda #indianoverseascongress #bangladesh #rahulgandhi #iansexclusiveinterview #pmmodispeech #inheritencetax
#sampitroda #indianoverseascongress #bangladesh #rahulgandhi #iansexclusiveinterview #pmmodispeech #inheritencetax
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00:00First of all, I'm really not qualified to comment on the mistakes she made.
00:16You know, people do things based on their own perception of the leadership and the position
00:25they are in, but I feel that things probably look from outside more dictatorial.
00:40I know when she put Yunus on scanner, globally a lot of people were very unhappy because
00:52Yunus has a reputation.
00:55Right or wrong, he got a Nobel Prize, he has devoted his life to Bangladesh and the poor
01:04women of Bangladesh.
01:06We may not agree with everything he did, but I think overall he deserves a lot more respect.
01:14And that kind of signal that people got globally sort of said that there is more of a dictatorial
01:30attitude in governance and democracy is under threat.
01:36It is happening in many parts of the world where institutions are captured, whether it
01:41is election commission, judiciary, universities, tax department, police, security, where people
01:54are unnecessarily harassed.
01:59And maybe it got to a point, it just suddenly took a life of its own.
02:09No one had expected this, at least I didn't expect, maybe some great pundit expected that.
02:17But to me, it was a surprise the way it happened and the speed with which it had happened.
02:27I agree with him and everybody, including Yunus, that everywhere you need to be concerned
02:34about minorities.
02:35We should be concerned about minorities in India as well.
02:39So, I think it was the right call and I respect that.
02:42Nowhere minorities need to be treated with fear and concern.
02:51And I think Yunus has clearly said that he will work towards it.
03:01I think they are two different countries.
03:07India is too big, too diverse, too complex.
03:12India is much more aware of democracy and the roots of democracy.
03:23I would compare India in the same league, mainly because of the population of 1.4 billion
03:36and with the kind of diversity we have.
03:38But there is always a danger of authoritarian attitude.
03:44Look at in America, you know, no one ever thought, you know, I came to America 60 years
03:50ago and I never thought that there will be a day in America where there will be concern
03:56about authoritarian attitude.
04:03We believe American institutions are fairly robust, whether it is, again, judiciary or
04:12security, students, universities.
04:21American institutions are independent, full of lots of talent and courage.
04:31You also need courage.
04:33A lot of our institutions don't have courage to stand up to what is right.
04:38And they buckle up.
04:41So going back to your question, I think India is very different.
04:46But anything could happen.
04:47I didn't expect this to happen in Bangladesh.
04:50We didn't expect this to happen, for example, in Egypt, the way it happened.
04:55You know, I mean, there are many examples like this in the recent history where things
05:01just erupt.
05:05And people analyze after the fact.
05:13And come up with reasons.
05:15I don't have a crystal ball.
05:16It is for India to decide.
05:24That is for Indian foreign policy experts to decide.
05:29But we have a good relationship with Bangladesh.
05:32I think something should be worked out where everybody is happy.
05:36Bangladesh government is happy.
05:38Indian government is happy.
05:40And Sheikh Hasina also has a way to move on.
05:48We don't want any further disturbance.
05:54It is in the interest of Bangladesh and India and all the neighbors to make sure that Bangladesh
06:01gets back to normal situation as soon as possible, where peace will prevail, people will get
06:11on to their work, economy will function the way it has been functioning.
06:17And in the process, there is no violence.
06:24So if Sheikh Hasina has to be in India for a while, I'm sure, you know, it'll be okay
06:30and people will work things out.
06:32I have confidence.
06:35To say how things shape up there, but if there are people like Eunice at the helm of it,
06:46I can assure you relationships would be good.
06:49I know him personally.
06:51I've known him for over 30 years.
06:55I respect him.
06:56We have a good friendship.
06:58He was once in Chicago, we had dinner together.
07:02And I think he's a man with a vision.
07:08He is, in many ways, well respected world over.
07:16And he would want good relationship with India, because he understands the value of good relationship
07:22with India.
07:23And we also respect and want good relationship with Bangladesh.
07:33Not possible to have one election in India, because we have 30 states, it's just not practical.
07:41See the whole idea today is that some people want uniformity, while India stands for diversity.
07:54There cannot be uniformity in India.
07:57India thrives on diversity.
08:00So there'll be multiple elections, there'll be multiple ways of doing things.
08:03There are multiple languages, there are multiple cultures, there are multiple views.
08:12That's what India is.
08:13So don't force on India uniformity.
08:18It doesn't work.
08:19It will never work.
08:24And that's what people with authoritarian mindset try to do.
08:30It doesn't work in the long run.
08:34And you see, PM says something, but you also need to realize, from my experiences, that
08:40PM has tendency to lie.
08:43Many things.
08:44You know, I can tell you that from my personal experiences.
08:50So I don't pay much attention.
08:52A complex question.
08:58We discussed this at length during National Knowledge Commission, while we were discussing
09:08issues on higher education.
09:11The bottom line is, we need to lift large number of people from the bottom of the economic
09:20pyramid who are also deprived, in many ways, in jobs, education.
09:36And our priority has to be to lift them.
09:39And it's going to be painful.
09:41It's not easy.
09:42I mean, in America, we find that with the situation of minorities.
09:50So it's a battle.
09:53Inequality and exclusion is a challenge.
09:58Because you can't make everybody happy.
10:03It is unfortunate that in India, you have an added dimension of caste.
10:07You know, I'm supposed to be OBC.
10:10I'm son of a carpenter.
10:11It didn't bother me.
10:14I didn't care.
10:16I'm not part of this whole thought process about Brahmins and non-Brahmins.
10:22I don't give a damn, personally.
10:27But in general, society cares about these things.
10:31So it's our job to lift people.
10:34A simple way to look at it is, how many Dalits are vice chancellors of the universities?
10:40How many OBC people are in key positions in the banks, in government offices?
10:50You know, like Rahul Gandhi has been saying that 10% of the top people control 90% of
10:57the best jobs.
10:59That has to change.
11:01We can't go on like this.
11:05Nobody talks about the fact that telecom revolution was brought into India by OBC.
11:12No one says that.
11:13I don't want to say it in that way.
11:17To me, it's not about OBC or non-OBC.
11:20But the point is, how many people are given the opportunities?
11:24There's a lot of talent.
11:27Don't underestimate the talent.
11:29They may not have degree, but they are artisans, they are craftsmen, they are musicians, you
11:39know, and they do most of the work.
11:45They construct things, but they don't get the due respect and due share of the economy.
11:56I get a lot of Vishwakarmas coming to me and complaining that, sir, we are at the bottom.
12:03We don't have wealth.
12:05We do all the work.
12:06We create buildings, but we get only the wages.
12:16So in our society, there is a lot of work ahead of us to equalize.
12:24It will never be equal.
12:26But you got to lift large number of people and it's not going to be easy.
12:30As soon as you give opportunity to Dalit, somebody is going to say, wait a minute.
12:34I'm talented.
12:35I'm deprived.
12:36Yeah, it will happen.
12:37Too bad.
12:38Okay.
12:39I don't like it.
12:41But that's part of the progress we have to recognize.
12:50So you got to give more preference quotas and all that to Dalits, minorities, tribals,
13:03OBC, and others.
13:06You got to do that.
13:09Look, I stand by what I said.
13:16But I also know that in India, there are trolls.
13:20There are liars.
13:21There are people who are paid to attack.
13:26And I take that as part of the package.
13:29I never said that inheritance tax should be introduced in India, never.
13:37I said, this is what happens in America, which is fine.
13:42And even if I had said, let's say, there is a system in India where there'll be debate
13:48in the parliament.
13:49There'll be discussions and there'll be voting.
13:52And these things don't happen just because Sam Pitroda said it or XYZ said it.
13:58Okay.
13:59So what is all this fuss?
14:01But if you want to distract the main conversation at that time during election on employment,
14:10economy, inflation.
14:16You go after Sam Pitroda, what he said.
14:20So it's an organized attack by a bunch of people who are hired to do this on social
14:27media.
14:28I'll give you another example.
14:33When I said something about, I think on Indian diversity, it was in the media for 10 days.
14:42Nobody said anything.
14:44And all of a sudden, Prime Minister of India speaks.
14:48And then it becomes a big issue on national TV for 24 hours or 48 hours.
14:55To me, Prime Minister India was a troller.
14:57He trolled.
14:58Okay.
14:59Now that's not fair.
15:02But these things happen in India.
15:04I accept it.
15:06I have no complaints.
15:07You know, what can I do?
15:09I mean, right now, there is a big message going on in social media by some lady.
15:15I don't know who she is.
15:17But somebody sent it to me and I didn't even read it.
15:19I said, it's not worth it.
15:20It's garbage.
15:21It's about deep state where Sam Pitroda is involved and the, you know, nonprofits I run.
15:27Look, I have multiple identity.
15:31I don't have one identity.
15:32Don't expect me to have one identity.
15:35I'm Sam Pitroda.
15:36I'm a father.
15:37I'm a husband.
15:38I'm a friend.
15:40I'm an engineer.
15:41I'm a scientist.
15:42I'm a businessman.
15:43I'm part, you know, into politics.
15:44Okay.
15:45I'm an author.
15:48So I have multiple platforms to express myself.
15:54I run five nonprofits globally.
15:57That doesn't mean I'm part of a deep state.
16:02It's all bogus.
16:03It's all lies.
16:04But people do that.
16:05Okay.
16:06And they get paid to do that.
16:08So that, you know, earning depends on it.
16:12So they just push it and they have discussion among each other and then, you know, hundreds
16:18of thousands of people read it and then they, you know, say, oh my God, is this the problem?
16:23And then they want me to respond.
16:25I get a lot of calls saying you should respond.
16:27Maybe you should file a court case.
16:28I said, look, I'm not going to get to that level.
16:32I'm not going to respond.
16:33I'm not going to file a court case.
16:35I have no time.
16:37I got other things to do.
16:39I'm not going to be dictated by what other people say.
16:45I know what I am.
16:47I know what I need to do.
16:49I don't need a label from anybody.
16:55But that's what goes on in social media today.
16:57And it's not just me.
16:58It happens to a lot of people.
17:00And all over the world, not just in India.
17:08I'm not really a legal expert on this.
17:11You need to ask this to some of the legal people.
17:13You know, I do believe in equality.
17:17I do believe in diversity.
17:20I do believe in inclusion.
17:21You know, these are broader concepts that I believe in.
17:26Legality of it, lawyers will have to sort it out.
17:31I'm not qualified.
17:32I would request, urge people to come out in large number to vote.
17:47I would like people to realize that this is their way of putting their stamp on what kind
17:59of Kashmir they want.
18:02They have to make special effort.
18:10I would like to see their voting 80% or higher, if possible.
18:20I want everybody to work on now to make sure that they are on the right list, voter list,
18:27so there is no confusion or chaos at the last minute.
18:31And I want free and fair election in Kashmir.
18:36I don't want any hanky-panky.
18:38You know, I'm not happy with the election last time because, you know, I find that in
18:42Orissa, for example, there are 40 lakh extra votes.
18:45Wait a minute, where did it come from?
18:51And people are asking questions to election commission, people are asking questions to
18:55Supreme Court and there are no answers.
18:59That is just not acceptable.
19:01All of a sudden you come up with, you know, hundreds of thousands of extra votes.
19:07You know, normally it is 0.7%, 0.5% and this time it is 4.5% or something.
19:14I don't know the exact numbers.
19:17But when that happens, you lose confidence in the system.
19:23To me, that is not a fair election.
19:26When you come up with so many extra votes, how do you expect me to say it is a fair election?
19:34Doesn't matter who won and who lost.
19:37That's not an issue.
19:39Issue is, are you conducting fair elections?
19:46But in India, if you question election commission, people say, oh, come on, that's, you know,
19:50not right.
19:51Of course it is right.
19:53It's my job as a citizen to question.
19:56You have to find an answer.
19:57You can't question me.
20:00I can question you as an election commission.
20:05Why did you find so many extra votes?
20:07Explain to me.
20:10Nobody's saying it.
20:14Nobody's paying any attention to it.
20:16So my request would be watch at every booth, count number of people who vote, tally it
20:26to make sure that election commission at the end doesn't come up with more votes.
20:34So all of these are concerns to me.
20:37And Citizens Committee has really done a great job of documenting and articulating some of
20:44these issues.
20:46Nobody's paying attention.
20:47Political parties are not paying attention.
20:50Supreme Court is not paying attention.
20:53Election commission is not paying attention.
20:55That's just not fair.
20:56It's too early to say about his visit.
21:05We have been working on it.
21:08Hopefully when it is finalized and dates get nailed down, program is fixed, we will
21:21have a press release and press conference.
21:25Until then, business is as usual.
21:28First of all, that's wrong.
21:36I was there with Rahul Gandhi all the time.
21:42But people lie.
21:43See, in India, lie is a very simple thing.
21:47I remember, I'll give you one example, you know, Jim Corbyn, the earlier leader of the
21:58Labour Party, is a friend of mine and he and I decided to have tea at Hilton Hotel.
22:09So we had a tea.
22:10We had a good conversation because I know him.
22:13And then Rahul Gandhi stopped by because we are going out.
22:18So in the lobby, there's a little picture taken of three of us where he's in the middle,
22:24Rahul on one side, I'm on the other side.
22:28That picture was shown all over.
22:35In India, some people started projecting that picture as Sam Pitroda and Rahul Gandhi meet
22:42chairman of BBC.
22:43I mean, come on, how can you say that?
22:49And it was just shown all over.
22:54But poor people in India don't know who is this white guy.
22:58So they believe it is chairman of BBC.
22:59He is not a chairman of BBC.
23:02So this kind of misinformation goes on and on and on.
23:07So I don't pay any attention to these kinds of people.
23:10It's wrong, totally wrong.
23:15Then they went after Soros, you know, Sam Pitroda met Soros, bogus Rockefeller Foundation,
23:20Ford Foundation.
23:21Come on, have some sense.
23:27But people don't because they get paid to lie.
23:30They get, you know, I'm sure an award, you know, if you lie more.
23:41So what do you do?
23:42You live with it.