Mr Untouchable Godfather or Snitch
The true-life story of a Harlem's notorious Nicky Barnes, a junkie turned multimillionaire drug-lord, MR. UNTOUCHABLE takes its audience deep inside the heroin industry of the 1970s. The most powerful black drug kingpin in New York City history, Barnes came from humble beginnings to make himself and his comrades rich beyond their wildest dreams. Trusted and trained by the Italians he set up his own black crime family The Council a formidable drug collective. Ultimately he reached national infamy in 1977 when the New York Times put him on the front cover of their magazine with the headline "Mr. Untouchable".
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TVTranscript
00:00:00It really bothered me to come up here and talk about this guy and knowing that he was
00:00:30giving him life. Nick needs this to survive. Nick needs the lamplight. Nick needs the notoriety.
00:00:41See the only thing that we really doing? We giving him a transfusion. We resurrecting
00:00:48him.
00:01:00All roads led to Harlem and all roads led to Nicky Bonds in those days.
00:01:07This big cunta quinta in Harlem, you know, this, this, the Al Capone of Harlem.
00:01:14Yeah, you know, you see him standing up there, you know, looking like either God, our black
00:01:19godfather.
00:01:20I'm your mama, I'm your daddy, I'm that nigga in the alley. I'm your doctor when you need.
00:01:25Want some coke, have some weed. You know me, I'm your friend, your main boy, the Indian.
00:01:31I'm your pusher, man. I'm your pusher, man.
00:01:39Nicky Bonds was the face of heroin trafficking during that period in the 1970s.
00:01:46These guys could have been on a Fortune 500 the way they dealt with things, you know.
00:01:51There was something that was professional that you could admire that was being done,
00:01:56obviously under the nose of a lot of policemen.
00:02:00This was an affront to law enforcement. This is like thumbing the nose at DEA, the Department
00:02:07of Justice. You want to go right up the lines to the Attorney General and the President
00:02:11of the United States?
00:02:12Ain't I clean, bad machine, super cool, super mean, feeling good for the man, super fly.
00:02:19You're never going to have another Nicky Bonds. Those days are over. There is no loyalty.
00:02:24Loyalty is a dollar. There's treachery. There's not loyalty.
00:02:29Nicky Bonds was a coward who crossed his friends. People that really loved him would have died
00:02:35and killed for him, and he shitted on them.
00:02:49Nicky Bonds was a coward who crossed his friends. People that really loved him would
00:02:54have died and killed for him, and he shitted on them.
00:02:58Nicky Bonds was a coward who crossed his friends. People that really loved him would
00:03:03have died and killed for him, and he shitted on them.
00:03:07Nicky Bonds was a coward who crossed his friends. People that really loved him would
00:03:12have died and killed for him.
00:03:14You strike the key, you got to kill him or he's going to take your ass out. That's just
00:03:26what happened. He struck me when I was down and he didn't kill me. I came back and moved
00:03:34on.
00:03:44If you strike the key, you got to kill him.
00:03:57I read Shakespeare. I read Melville. I read Philip Marlowe. I read Hawthorne, Paul Tillich,
00:04:04Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
00:04:06And then Machiavelli, he says that there is no right or no wrong. It's he who has the
00:04:15biggest guns who determines what's right and what's wrong. But to us, it meant that if
00:04:22you're in powder, you got to be vicious.
00:04:25They enforced discipline. They protected themselves by deciding on and ordering the
00:04:37murders of anyone they suspected of being a threat.
00:04:45I remember a homicide where they threw a guy out of about four or five story building after
00:04:49they shot him, rolled him up into a rug.
00:04:52It ain't personal. It's just business. I like you and all, but you fucked up. So you got
00:05:00to get this. It ain't what you owe. I guess it's how you owe. You can owe a guy money
00:05:05and then you disappear on him. Then the next week you're driving a brand new car. That's
00:05:09like the ultimate insult, the sin we saw. If you let one guy get away with that, then
00:05:14everybody's going to get away with that. Then you have no strength and no power.
00:05:22We learned growing up because we've seen it. We've seen how violence is used to solve problems.
00:05:31Maybe we learned it at home. I can remember the time. I think I was 12, maybe 13 years
00:05:38old. My dad was really just a giant motherfucker. We came in 9, 10 o'clock, whatever it is,
00:05:46and they had this big argument and he smacked her. So I ran and tried to help my mother
00:05:54and he pushed me to say, oh, I saw right through you motherfucker. When he charged the war
00:05:58weapon, I pulled the motherfucking zip off and he said, oh, that's not a gun. And I fired
00:06:02it. Bam! But the motherfucking gun blew to pieces in my hand.
00:06:09My mother there, she's screaming or something, and I ran and jumped out the window. Pow!
00:06:15The big stuff. Who do you think you are? It's the big stuff.
00:06:25Nick was kind of like a golden boy. Everybody liked him. Nick, myself, and others. And this
00:06:31group was no more than just a bunch of guys with similar backgrounds who grew up in the
00:06:36same neighborhood. And people that are locked out have to find some kind of innovative way
00:06:41to get in. You tell me success is a 10-foot wall, you give me a 5-foot ladder, how the
00:06:46hell do you expect me to get up there and get mines? So they come up with innovative
00:06:50ways of doing it. And in the process, they become what I call sidewalk executives.
00:07:03When I first started hearing about Nick, we were dancing at Smalls. I had gone into the
00:07:08bathroom. And when I came out, Nick was coming through the door. And everybody, it just
00:07:15looked like the whole aisle just opened up when he just walked through the door. And
00:07:21he had on these shades, and he was just dressed impeccably. He had these big pretty dimples,
00:07:26you know. And he was smiling. And when he walked past me, the first thing I remember,
00:07:32he just smelled so good.
00:07:37Back then, that's when Smalls Paradise was jumping. Jazz started bringing me around that
00:07:42circle. So when we go down to this bar, this is when I met Nick's bodyguards, Smitty and
00:07:49Bobby. So Smitty turns around, he's like looking at me. Now you got to understand, I'm about
00:07:54135 pounds soaking wet. These guys are three and change. So we're sitting there. So Smitty
00:08:00eases up beside me. He says, what's up, little nigga? I'm like, what's up? He said, who you
00:08:05come to see? I'm like, you know, I was very arrogant. I'm like, who you writing a book?
00:08:10So now he grabbed me around the throat, throwing me on the ground. Jazz and Nick runs out of
00:08:14the back of the bar like, what's going on? So I'm like, y'all get them off of me. Get
00:08:18them off of me. So he said, yo, they come to see me. Takes me uptown, and he tells me,
00:08:22have I ever heard of Nicky Barnes? I'm like, who hasn't heard of Nicky Barnes in Harlem?
00:08:26You know, the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, who hasn't? And on the way there, he was like,
00:08:30you know, what do you want out of life? I'm like, I want money like everybody else. He
00:08:33said, what are you willing to do to get it? I'm like, anything it takes to get it.
00:08:39Everybody wasn't eating back in 70, 71. You know, everybody was not eating when he came.
00:08:48You know, everybody was eating. Everybody was riding. Everybody was wearing nice clothes.
00:08:53You know, I'm not trying to glorify what he did, but he was just there on time.
00:09:09I had the businessman's persona. You know, I wanted power. I wanted a lot of power.
00:09:15That's the reputation that I had at Valentine's. If you got it and it's good, give it to me.
00:09:24He was one of the few African-American drug dealers who was trusted by the Italian-American
00:09:33mafia as someone to do business with.
00:09:39The users and the dealers are going where quality is. When a user comes on the street
00:09:49to buy, they don't say, well, who's the meanest motherfucker? They say, who got the best power?
00:09:58Mickey Ross got the best power.
00:10:09The big money was really on the street. If a guy could control a wholesale level, buy
00:10:15it wholesale, and then get it all the way down to the street, because in the past it
00:10:21normally passed from different little groups and they all took their cut. What Barnes did
00:10:25was he eliminated that. He bought it wholesale from the Italians and he distributed it right
00:10:31down to the street. And there was huge money.
00:10:38This is a New York quarter. When I left the street, if you heard someone was scrambling,
00:10:44that's what they were selling. What made this particular quarter so famous was that
00:10:51my quarters, you could dump that quarter out, go get a quarter of cut, a quarter of mani
00:10:59or manita, take that quarter of manita and put it with my quarter, blend them together
00:11:11and they would have two quarters. And that's what the innovation was. I was there. I used
00:11:17to be a drug addict. I used to do this. I used to be the guy down on the bottom. I used
00:11:21to get these things. And when I got them, I always wanted to be able to take it home
00:11:27and use some and mix it and then take the rest out in the streets. And that's why I
00:11:32did it like that. And it worked.
00:11:41I live on 115th Street and 8th Avenue, which is where I eventually started selling narcotics.
00:11:48This guy used to come to me. I don't remember his name. And the guy came to me and told
00:11:53me he wanted me to keep these little brown paper bags. They were caps of heroin. I didn't
00:11:57know it at the time. I was making good money with it.
00:12:01He was actually a pretty good student and had pretty good comments from teachers as
00:12:06a youngster. He went into the drug business because he saw the role models around him,
00:12:12the Bumpy Johnsons and other famous or infamous drug dealers from Harlem. Those are the fellows
00:12:19who were cool, who had the cars and the wealth and the power.
00:12:25We're talking about that point in time when Harlem is essentially falling apart. Harlem
00:12:31during the period when the whites, the middle class had completely moved out to the suburbs
00:12:37and all they left behind were people who couldn't get out.
00:12:42I started using it when I was about 14 years old.
00:12:47I was a drug addict. I was shooting it every day, several times a day.
00:12:52It's a sensation. It's kind of a mystical, uplifting feeling. Kind of levitating.
00:12:59It's a feeling that you can't describe.
00:13:02It's a sensation. It's kind of a mystical, uplifting feeling. Kind of levitating.
00:13:11And these little bells go off. A lot of people feel it.
00:13:18Hard time. Hard time. Hard time. Hard time.
00:13:25Mickey Barnes. He was in prison. He ended up meeting in the weight pile.
00:13:31He had a book he was reading one day and I asked him what the book was and he showed me the book.
00:13:38It was The Prince by Machiavelli and he gave the book to me to read and I read it.
00:13:45Machiavelli, very devious character. I think most of our politicians today have read him also.
00:13:53Anyhow, we developed a relationship as a result of that.
00:13:58I didn't know anything about drugs before I went in or the trade, anything.
00:14:03I really actually learned that while I was in.
00:14:06You often hear it referred to as crime schools in the past. Well, that's exactly what they are.
00:14:13This thing formulated in prison. It was like a cold conglomerate of criminal masterminds, I would say.
00:14:23There were times when I was talking with either, either Maggie McDonough or times when I was talking with Joey Galloway.
00:14:31And we talked about organizing people to be more concerned about money and less concerned about violence.
00:14:42When he was away, he had hooked up with the mob, you know, I mean with the big Italians, you know.
00:14:50And that kind of, it did, it guaranteed that he was going to have a lot of drugs and that they were going to be good.
00:15:03What kept me from going back to using drugs was the fact that I knew I couldn't really make money if I was a user.
00:15:11I wanted to make money out of drugs and I wanted to make a lot of money.
00:15:15And I said, shit, I got to get out of this motherfucker, man. I'm not going to use no drugs. I'm just going to sell it.
00:15:42I was known as the guy who was connected to organized crime.
00:16:01And when I came home, a moment, you know, the powder community, that was big fucking news.
00:16:10And Mickey Barnes is coming home, the street is just ready for him to come home.
00:16:17First of all, there was a lot of people that were going to get some jobs and everybody's going to make money.
00:16:23Every place he went, people just wanted to be around him, wanted to look at him. I mean, he was a true superstar.
00:16:40Barnes was preying on his own people. He was addicting the very people that he was trying to be a role model to.
00:16:54This shit was going everywhere. God just told me, I said, look, the powder's supposed to sell itself.
00:16:59You've got to have powder that people will stand in line to get it.
00:17:05I want enough shit out on the street. I want the street to be saturated.
00:17:08So whenever a buyer comes, our product is going to be out on the street.
00:17:14You know, I remember on 127, you know, St. Nick's, around that area, you know, the bags that were copped there, it was regular, it was consistent.
00:17:24When you inject heroin, you feel no pain. And all is well with the world.
00:17:32That's at first. You know, then at some point, it gets to be not to get sick.
00:17:39And you would do whatever you needed to do not to get sick.
00:17:54We don't have any poppy fields, you know, that I know of in Brooklyn.
00:17:57And then we forget that someone else is pulling the strings, man, and calling the shots.
00:18:09I have been asked whether or not I, as a dealer, was being a tool of a white man.
00:18:17That's probably a question that I just, that I just can't answer.
00:18:26Through the 70s, Nicky Barnes always had a case, or two, or three.
00:18:32The first major trial that we had was the bribery case.
00:18:37He was acquitted. Jury said, not guilty.
00:18:41He looked at me after the jury verdict was read and said, not guilty.
00:18:47And there was this look of increase in confidence in me.
00:18:50He was acquitted. Jury said, not guilty.
00:18:53He looked at me after the jury verdict was read and said, not guilty.
00:18:59And there was this look of incredulity on his face.
00:19:03And he said, would you believe this?
00:19:07And I said, I do. You know, I think I did a hell of a job.
00:19:11Everybody got into cars and we headed up to 125th Street.
00:19:17There was a place called the Purple Manor.
00:19:20All of a sudden, he said, we're going to have a celebration.
00:19:27He took a bottle of champagne and broke it open and said,
00:19:32we're going to make, we're going to make David an honorary nigger.
00:19:37We're going to make David an honorary nigger tonight.
00:19:47A drunk came up to me and said, you got two dollars?
00:19:54And Nick looked at Smitty, this 408-pound gargantuan young man,
00:20:02and Smitty took him, he grabbed him by the butt and by the back of the neck
00:20:07and he drove him into the ground like he was a spike.
00:20:12He said, that's Mighty Whitey, man. Are you crazy?
00:20:15You can't bother Mighty White.
00:20:17And that was, that was how I became an honorary nigger.
00:20:22When you're in state trial, your attorney has full latitude
00:20:28to kind of cross-examine, they call it voir dire, examine the jurors.
00:20:33I remember one time, it was a case in the Bronx and this guy,
00:20:37he was on a jury and he was staring at me.
00:20:41So Dave zeroed right in on him.
00:20:44What would you say if I told you,
00:20:46that my client, as he sits here, is absolutely innocent?
00:20:53The jurors said, well, if he was innocent, why is he sitting there?
00:20:59So they managed to get him off of the jury.
00:21:02I became a little arrogant now because after the jury came back
00:21:06in the murder case he was acquitted, I said,
00:21:10what are you going to do this year?
00:21:12Last year you made me an honorary nigger.
00:21:14He says, this year we're making you an honorary black man.
00:21:17So I said, what's the big deal?
00:21:20I was made an honorary nigger last year.
00:21:23He said, Dave, we don't hang out with niggers.
00:21:31I think that's when that initial, Mr. Untouchable name attached
00:21:36and it just kind of came out.
00:21:37I think that's when that initial, Mr. Untouchable name attached
00:21:40and it just traveled along with me as part of the baggage I had to carry.
00:21:55It's not like I came over like some lone gunman you see in the white movies,
00:22:00a guy come and take over the whole town.
00:22:02You know, one guy, one guy just kills everybody
00:22:04and takes over all the cattle and takes over everything.
00:22:07You know what I'm saying?
00:22:09Takes all the fine bitches and he's always in the bar giving everybody a drink
00:22:12and you know, just shooting them.
00:22:14It's not like that didn't happen.
00:22:16I just saw things developing that kind of coincided
00:22:20with ideas that I had in my head.
00:22:22You know, with a hundred pounds of stuff,
00:22:24you got to put it in somebody's hands.
00:22:26You can't do it yourself.
00:22:35Council was this group of people who sat around with Barnes
00:22:40and they formed policy like all councils would.
00:22:46One of the things that I think when you think of a business
00:22:50or you think of the council is you're thinking of a certain structure.
00:22:55It's like there's a CEO and a president and a CFO and a COO.
00:23:00What takes place in an underground economy is the same thing
00:23:02it just mirrors what's taking place above ground.
00:23:05You know, it's just like business.
00:23:07There were seven members in the council.
00:23:10There's Frank.
00:23:12There's Ishmael.
00:23:15There's Gaps.
00:23:18There's Wally.
00:23:20There's Jazz.
00:23:22There's Guy.
00:23:24And myself.
00:23:26Guy was the pretty boy.
00:23:28He was the pretty boy.
00:23:29He was the guy that knew all the girls.
00:23:31Frank, he was the bully.
00:23:34You know, Frank was the bully.
00:23:36Brother and Jazz were like similar.
00:23:38They were both like philosophers.
00:23:40You know, they used to read a lot and they used to teach a lot.
00:23:43And everywhere we went, it was like we were known.
00:23:46You know, I mean, we didn't have to pay for nothing.
00:23:49Everybody wanted to be in our circle.
00:23:52Just their mere presence struck fear in a lot of people.
00:23:55That's Frank.
00:23:57Yeah, look at Frank.
00:23:59Look at that smile on his face.
00:24:01That's how it was.
00:24:03That's how we were together, man.
00:24:05We were getting money.
00:24:07And clicking on all cylinders.
00:24:09Frank used to always say,
00:24:11he used to always say,
00:24:13how soon we forget.
00:24:15That was a favorite saying of his.
00:24:17Yeah, how soon we forget.
00:24:18Yeah, this is Jazz over here.
00:24:20Jazz's strength was that
00:24:22he was basically a good stand-up brother.
00:24:25You know, if we had to put on a ski mask
00:24:28and do something to get from point A to point B,
00:24:31he'd be down with it.
00:24:33This Scrap right here.
00:24:36Scrap was a part of Jazz's crew.
00:24:39But very reliable.
00:24:41Scrap was a part of Jazz's crew.
00:24:44Scrap was a part of Jazz's crew.
00:24:46But very reliable.
00:24:48Scrap would go in hell wearing dynamite drawers with Jazz.
00:24:54Okay, this guy.
00:24:56He was a youngster.
00:24:58He was really enthusiastic about making money.
00:25:02And I liked everything about the way that he managed things.
00:25:06The guy saw me as a father image.
00:25:09This was my family, and I was a dad.
00:25:17I remember one night,
00:25:19I was going to meet Jazz at this bar,
00:25:21and I ran a light.
00:25:23So the cops pulled me over,
00:25:25and they harassed me.
00:25:27And I'm sitting there,
00:25:29and he's asking me for my license and registration,
00:25:31and somebody said, what are you doing?
00:25:33I said, he wants my ID.
00:25:35He said, man, fuck him, park the car, go in the bar.
00:25:37So I'm like, you serious?
00:25:39He said, what'd I say?
00:25:41Go in the bar, people waiting for you.
00:25:43You, get the fuck out of here.
00:25:44And he left.
00:25:46I said, that's fucking power.
00:25:48This is the shit I'm a part of.
00:25:50I felt invincible.
00:25:55The Oath of Brotherhood
00:25:57was seven words
00:25:59for each of the seven members of the council.
00:26:02Treat my brother as I treat myself.
00:26:08And there was a certain mystical dynamic present
00:26:12when we said it.
00:26:14Because we would bind hands together,
00:26:19and we would utter these words.
00:26:30I treat my brother as I treat myself.
00:26:33It's in the Quran.
00:26:35There were some who criticized us
00:26:38for calling ourselves Muslims.
00:26:40We can take from it
00:26:43those elements which expand us as human beings
00:26:47and unify us as a group.
00:26:49The same way the Italians do with the Bible.
00:26:52So, you know, what's the big deal?
00:26:55The first thing that always stands out in my mind
00:26:58is that they were men.
00:27:00They were men in every sense of the word.
00:27:02And they were constantly challenging themselves
00:27:05and wanted to travel and learn and see the world.
00:27:08It was not just 110th to 155th Street.
00:27:10That was a very small part of who they were.
00:27:13They always had this thirst for knowing more
00:27:17and doing more and being seen as more.
00:27:30These were the same guys that, along with others,
00:27:34made it possible for Harlem Week.
00:27:37These guys cared about Harlem.
00:27:39They cared about the people in Harlem.
00:27:41It's all right to make money in the community
00:27:43as long as you give something back.
00:27:47At certain times of the year,
00:27:49Easter, Christmas, New Year, Thanksgiving,
00:27:52the people would come in and say,
00:27:55I need help.
00:27:57And then you left with a turkey.
00:28:03He had that, you know,
00:28:04he had that benevolence to him.
00:28:07The Thanksgiving Day turkeys, the spending money.
00:28:10He was giving something back to the community
00:28:12that he was raping and abusing and killing.
00:28:18My end, my whole focus was the money.
00:28:21You know, as harsh as that sounds,
00:28:24I mean, this guy wanted to destroy his life,
00:28:26getting high, what I care.
00:28:28I'm not trying to run for sainthood.
00:28:30I'm trying to get paid.
00:28:32I mean, I had this one guy,
00:28:34he was like my sampler, Claw, down on 16th Street.
00:28:37I mean, this guy's arm,
00:28:39do you know he didn't die until they took his arm off?
00:28:41I mean, his body really lived off the poison.
00:28:44As soon as they took him to the hospital,
00:28:47I mean, if Claw got a hit, you had a bomb.
00:28:50Because he didn't have no place to put it,
00:28:52so if he felt your product,
00:28:54you said, oh man, you got a winner.
00:28:56If it was garbage, he wouldn't even,
00:28:58I'd pull the car up, he'd be like,
00:28:59yo, just keep going.
00:29:01Because I need to get high,
00:29:03and that shit you got is garbage.
00:29:12I think we bought to the business
00:29:14of a particular type of expertise.
00:29:17Because I was a former drug addict,
00:29:19Frank James, a former drug addict,
00:29:21Thomas Fulmer, former drug addict,
00:29:23Joseph Hayden, former drug addict.
00:29:26If you ain't got customers,
00:29:27you ain't got a business, straight up, you don't.
00:29:29And the customers are the ones
00:29:31who drive the business, you know.
00:29:33The old-timers knew that.
00:29:35We say old-timers now, but really,
00:29:37guys who had the game at the time
00:29:39took care of the customers.
00:29:41That Nicky Barnes was a dope fiend at one point.
00:29:43That's why he had a whole different way
00:29:45in which he done his business, straight up.
00:29:47I mean, you were buying their product,
00:29:49and the customers meant money.
00:29:51You know, cussies meant dollars.
00:29:53I think people, when they hear about a Nicky Barnes,
00:29:55they might have a vision of a guy
00:29:57that picks up narcotics himself
00:29:59and cuts it, and it hangs around
00:30:01playgrounds selling dope to,
00:30:03you know, to school kids.
00:30:05My operation had reached
00:30:07the level of sophistication
00:30:09wherein all I did
00:30:11was meet my supplier.
00:30:13My principal supplier was Matty Madonna.
00:30:15He was Italian.
00:30:17I would meet him.
00:30:19We would sit down, and he would tell me
00:30:21what it was he had available for me.
00:30:23I would provide him with an automobile,
00:30:25and the narcotics would be placed
00:30:27in the automobile.
00:30:29They would be dropped
00:30:31at a pre-designated location.
00:30:33They would be picked up by
00:30:35whoever I assigned to pick it up,
00:30:37and then the business would function
00:30:39like a well-oiled machine.
00:30:44You know, there was girls on the table,
00:30:46you know, just people
00:30:48that did that as a living.
00:30:50But things to steal.
00:30:52I said, just make them come in naked
00:30:53if that's what I'll do.
00:30:55You know what we're going to do?
00:30:57Them bitches come up there,
00:30:59take motherfucking clothes off,
00:31:01make them bitches strip.
00:31:03If they don't want to strip, fuck them.
00:31:05We're going to hire them.
00:31:07And that's how it started.
00:31:09We used to come out like
00:31:115, 6 o'clock in the morning.
00:31:135, 6 o'clock in the evening,
00:31:15we was finished,
00:31:17and I would do it like
00:31:191,500 to 2,000 quarters a day.
00:31:21I was making,
00:31:23you know, $10,000,
00:31:25between $10,000 and $15,000 a day.
00:31:43Money.
00:31:45Remember, money was so important
00:31:47and so valuable
00:31:49that this was the,
00:31:51this was the pinnacle
00:31:53of the American dream.
00:31:55That's what the American dream
00:31:57is all about,
00:31:59getting money and getting things.
00:32:12You have to have
00:32:1410 or 15 stacks of $1,000
00:32:16in the house at all times,
00:32:18you know, to be,
00:32:20just to be comfortable.
00:32:24I think he modeled
00:32:26the council
00:32:28after his experiences
00:32:30with the Mafia.
00:32:32He had learned a lot
00:32:34from the Mafia,
00:32:36and he had taken it,
00:32:38he had been a good student,
00:32:40where now the student was
00:32:42in some ways better than the teachers.
00:32:44Now he was making,
00:32:46you know, just boatloads more money
00:32:48than they could dream of.
00:32:50Black racket money stays in Harlem.
00:32:51No more Mafia,
00:32:53police, mayors, senators,
00:32:55judges, or presidents.
00:32:57It's our money up here.
00:32:59Let's keep it.
00:33:01There was a conflict
00:33:03between me and, uh,
00:33:05and Carmine Valenti.
00:33:07He was saying
00:33:09that I was getting too big
00:33:10for my riches.
00:33:12I think Carmine thought
00:33:14that East and West Harlem
00:33:16were provinces
00:33:18of the Italians,
00:33:19and the black guys
00:33:21trying to move out on their own,
00:33:23they were kind of confronting
00:33:25their colonial powers.
00:33:28I was like the first.
00:33:30I was the first black dude
00:33:32to tell a white boy,
00:33:34look, you motherfuckers can't
00:33:36come over here fucking around
00:33:38and collect the money
00:33:40from this dude over here
00:33:42because he owes you money.
00:33:44You got to see me,
00:33:46because I'm willing to make
00:33:47a difference.
00:33:49The demographics
00:33:51of the business
00:33:53has changed,
00:33:55and you have to recognize that
00:33:57because now I'm here,
00:33:59and now we're here,
00:34:01and this is our neighborhood.
00:34:11Love and happiness.
00:34:15Yeah.
00:34:17Make you do wrong,
00:34:19make you do right.
00:34:30Those were good days.
00:34:33I think probably just,
00:34:35we just had really great
00:34:37chemistry between us,
00:34:39and she liked to spend money.
00:34:42She enjoyed shopping,
00:34:44enjoyed jewelry,
00:34:45and you know,
00:34:47like we used to always say,
00:34:49she had a black belt in shopping.
00:34:51You know, if I saw a pair of shoes,
00:34:53I'd just get every color
00:34:55that they had,
00:34:57and I'd have like,
00:34:59I don't know,
00:35:01a box of money maybe
00:35:03with two, three million dollars
00:35:05in a box of money,
00:35:07and only thing he would tell me
00:35:09was just write a note,
00:35:11if you take out $10,000,
00:35:13$20,000, just write a note
00:35:15and be sure they don't think
00:35:17I'm trying to, you know,
00:35:19short them out of $50,000
00:35:21that you'd have took out
00:35:23of this box, you know.
00:35:25So, you know,
00:35:27so the life was good,
00:35:29so you just get kind of
00:35:31pulled right into it.
00:35:33His wife loved me.
00:35:35I mean, she was my idol.
00:35:37She was trying to teach me
00:35:39how to be a lady.
00:35:41You know,
00:35:43I'm going to teach you
00:35:45how to be a lady.
00:35:47I mean, my mom would take me
00:35:49to Henry Blundell
00:35:51to get my hair done
00:35:53and get a massage
00:35:55and pedicure and manicure,
00:35:57I mean, I wasn't used to that.
00:35:59We had our first child,
00:36:01we had a little girl,
00:36:03and he was just ecstatic,
00:36:05he was ecstatic.
00:36:07He was just like really,
00:36:09he just made me always feel
00:36:11like a little girl.
00:36:13I don't think I could give you
00:36:15more than that.
00:36:17I was thug,
00:36:19I was in the thug life,
00:36:21and I wanted thug love,
00:36:23and thug love is composed
00:36:25of different elements.
00:36:27It's composed of that
00:36:29willingness to hold
00:36:31that the man is carrying.
00:36:33It's saying, hey,
00:36:35I want to be a part of this,
00:36:37and I know that this
00:36:39is a part of you,
00:36:41and hey, I'm open
00:36:43to making my contribution.
00:36:45He took me to New Jersey,
00:36:47and he took me to this house,
00:36:49and I was like,
00:36:51God, that's a beautiful house,
00:36:53and he said, that's your house,
00:36:55and I was like almost passed out.
00:36:57I remember sometime
00:36:59he used to come in,
00:37:01and because I was a dancer,
00:37:03he used to always want to learn
00:37:05how to do the hustle, right,
00:37:07and I remember sometimes
00:37:09he'd come in late,
00:37:11and my daughter,
00:37:13when she had gotten a little older,
00:37:15she said, listen,
00:37:17y'all going to dance tonight.
00:37:19I probably was kind of
00:37:21recklessly self-indulging.
00:37:23Anything that I wanted,
00:37:25I tried to have it.
00:37:27When the,
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00:43:45It would not have affected me as if he took my car.
00:43:47When he took my car, that was personal.
00:43:50The way I looked at it, Wally fucked me first.
00:43:53I was gonna fuck him back, bottom line.
00:43:57And I was gonna do anything in my power
00:43:59to accomplish that.
00:44:03Ronald McDonald was a mob guy.
00:44:05He was a maid guy from Pleasant Avenue.
00:44:07And he ran with black guys as a kid.
00:44:09And he ran with this guy Wally Fisher as a kid.
00:44:11Fisher was the brother of Guy Fisher,
00:44:13who was Nicky's main lieutenant.
00:44:16So he said, well, you know what?
00:44:17I know this guy, Nicky Bonds.
00:44:18You might be interested in him.
00:44:22Robert Geronimo had a code name.
00:44:26With a name like Geronimo, why do you need a code name?
00:44:28Welcome Back Cotter was a show
00:44:30that was on television at the time.
00:44:32And there was this sort of slick street guy,
00:44:36white guy, named Barbarino.
00:44:38And that was Geronimo's code name.
00:44:44Eventually, I get introduced to Geronimo.
00:44:48And I basically laid it down to G.
00:44:49I says, G, let me tell you something.
00:44:51This is a partnership.
00:44:52This is a brotherhood, okay?
00:44:54And sometimes it wouldn't have to do things.
00:44:56We're gonna have to do some left-handed things
00:44:58that only you and I are gonna know.
00:45:00That's the only way we're gonna get over.
00:45:02But I tell you what, one thing.
00:45:04This is a fucking bond.
00:45:06This is a brotherhood.
00:45:08You fuck me, I'll fuck you twice.
00:45:11♪♪
00:45:20First and foremost, I didn't consider myself white, okay?
00:45:24When I say white, my skin tone is white.
00:45:26But I talk black, I act black, I'm from that.
00:45:30So to me, being around these people were nothing new.
00:45:33So it was not some white guy getting off a bus
00:45:35and saying, hey, I'm here, and sell me drugs.
00:45:38When I brought Louie on the scene,
00:45:40it was so obvious we couldn't be cops.
00:45:44And we probably weren't hit men from the mob
00:45:46because it was just too obvious.
00:45:47It was so obvious, it was believable.
00:45:50♪♪
00:45:54And Wally up to this juncture was basically
00:45:58a fetcher-stepper, if you will, for the Barnes organization.
00:46:01It was like a guy being on a team, you know,
00:46:02being out sitting on a bench.
00:46:04You know, you're a player, you want to play ball, you know.
00:46:06Come on, coach, put me in a fucking game,
00:46:08you know what I'm saying?
00:46:08And I think that's what Wally felt like, you know.
00:46:10He felt like he was being stepped on.
00:46:12He wanted to be somebody.
00:46:13He wanted to have respect.
00:46:15And this is one way he could get it,
00:46:18with two wise guys.
00:46:21Wally was the weak link,
00:46:23and we were going to attack the weak link.
00:46:26We weren't there for Wally Fisher.
00:46:28I wasn't there for Guy Fisher.
00:46:30I was there for Nicky Barnes.
00:46:31♪♪
00:46:37My rule was that we don't talk about drugs
00:46:42in a car, on the phone, or in the house,
00:46:45or anywhere where it could be overheard.
00:46:47If we get together as a group,
00:46:49and we want to sit down and talk about something,
00:46:51turn on the blender,
00:46:53and we'd be talking like a motherfucker about drugs.
00:46:55♪♪
00:47:05There were times when the G.A. was behind me,
00:47:08because they'd trail me regularly,
00:47:09but I would lose them motherfuckers, man.
00:47:11♪♪
00:47:15There were certain routes that I knew
00:47:17that I could take, and turns that I could make,
00:47:19that they just couldn't,
00:47:21they couldn't possibly know where I'm going.
00:47:23♪♪
00:47:26We were trying to purchase drugs from everybody.
00:47:28We were trying to entwine everybody into it.
00:47:30So they beep the horn, they pull over, I pull over,
00:47:33I get in the back of their car.
00:47:35It was brown, it was chunky.
00:47:38I said, oh, really?
00:47:40I wet my finger, I stuck my finger in it,
00:47:43and I put it in my mouth,
00:47:44because I saw that on TV somewhere,
00:47:46and I had never tasted something so disgusting in my life.
00:47:49And they looked at me like, what is this moron doing?
00:47:52And I went, ugh.
00:47:54You know, I didn't know that's what you were supposed to do
00:47:56with coke, not heroin.
00:47:57♪♪
00:48:02I was told by DEA that there was word on the street
00:48:05that the country boys were gonna hit Necky.
00:48:09Frank Lucas, the country boys,
00:48:11they came up from South Carolina.
00:48:13Rumor has it he had this guy who was shipping his thing
00:48:17over here in coffins from Vietnam, so...
00:48:21And it was, like, primo material.
00:48:23They had to pay a tax.
00:48:24Okay, you, you know, you got goods,
00:48:26but you don't have no real estate.
00:48:28You know, we own all the real estate
00:48:30in the Harlem and in the Bronx.
00:48:32Frank got a big mouth.
00:48:34He sound country.
00:48:35He sound ignorant.
00:48:36Yeah, I do a lot of shit, y'all.
00:48:38Come here, Samson.
00:48:39Get out on the street, I'll kill that motherfucking shit.
00:48:41Oh, yeah.
00:48:42Shit, yeah.
00:48:43I don't give a fuck.
00:48:45And the reason why they were called the country boys
00:48:47is because that's what they were.
00:48:49They were country guys.
00:48:50They were active country.
00:48:51And they dressed country.
00:48:53If you said to one of them,
00:48:54what does it mean when they say dress to your left?
00:48:56He wouldn't know what the fuck you mean.
00:48:58It means pull your dick to your left.
00:49:00The guy's gonna measure you for your pants.
00:49:02You dress to the left.
00:49:03What does that mean, Frank?
00:49:04He wouldn't know what the fuck they was talking about.
00:49:06Of course, he never had shit like that made, you know.
00:49:08He's an off-the-rack.
00:49:09He would not dare to offend me to the extent
00:49:13of telling somebody that he was gonna put a contract on me.
00:49:20Being white is perhaps the most dangerous thing
00:49:22that an agent would do on this job.
00:49:24Of course, if you're discovered,
00:49:26either one of two things,
00:49:27they're gonna think you're either,
00:49:29you could be an informant,
00:49:30and that's big-time trouble
00:49:31where they could whack you right in the spot.
00:49:34When Mickey looked at you, he looked through you.
00:49:37One time, this guy walked up to me,
00:49:39said, Mickey wants to see you.
00:49:41There was nothing I could do.
00:49:42I mean, I had to go see him.
00:49:44But when I walked in that room,
00:49:46there's somebody gonna grab me from behind,
00:49:48cut my throat, throw me on the floor,
00:49:50shoot me in the head.
00:49:51So my knees got very weak.
00:49:53It was probably, I don't know,
00:49:55I think it was about 10 o'clock.
00:49:57It was about 10 o'clock,
00:49:58and I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:00I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:01I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:02I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:03I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:04I had to go to the bathroom.
00:50:05It was probably a 10-, 12-yard walk
00:50:09that lasted about 3 hours in my mind.
00:50:15When I walked in the room,
00:50:16he looked at me, he tilted his head,
00:50:18he picked up a tin foil and said,
00:50:19you want some coke?
00:50:21I said, nah, I don't want no coke.
00:50:23And everybody started laughing.
00:50:24When I heard the laughter, it broke the ice.
00:50:29Geronimo, he wasn't afraid.
00:50:31But I know for a fact that Barnes
00:50:33would kill the informants.
00:50:34And he'd take out insurance policy killings
00:50:36which would just kill somebody
00:50:38because he might be an informant.
00:50:46In the drug business,
00:50:47if you're not willing to terminate,
00:50:49you won't survive.
00:50:50It's a simple equation
00:50:52because you'll see, as you evolve,
00:50:56you'll begin to see
00:50:57that if you aren't willing to terminate,
00:51:00you might yourself be terminated.
00:51:04So you have to use,
00:51:06you have to use violence
00:51:08as a means to resolve certain problems.
00:51:11That's the way this game was played
00:51:13and it's always been played that way.
00:51:15And if you don't see it, you won't survive.
00:51:18Anybody who's in powder
00:51:20who's not willing to terminate
00:51:22will be terminated.
00:51:23There was no regret.
00:51:25It was really business.
00:51:26It was a, it was work.
00:51:28It was, it was, and I say work,
00:51:30I'm using the term that he,
00:51:32he would have and did use.
00:51:34They saw that as a business necessity
00:51:37to eliminate a danger of law enforcement,
00:51:41to eliminate potential witnesses
00:51:43who would threaten the organization.
00:51:45It was a business.
00:51:46It was a business.
00:51:47It was a business.
00:51:48It was a business.
00:51:49It was a business.
00:51:50To eliminate potential witnesses
00:51:52who would threaten the organization,
00:51:54there was, there was no compunctions
00:51:57about committing murder.
00:52:06Even the chainsaw,
00:52:08as bizarre as it, as it may seem,
00:52:11that was a hit
00:52:13that was contractual obligation.
00:52:16I think as cold-hearted as it is,
00:52:19it's a means to an end.
00:52:37We're talking about
00:52:38two different systems of values,
00:52:42and if you turn on television at night
00:52:46and you see a picture
00:52:49of a young person
00:52:51who was a suicide bomber,
00:52:54in your mind, it's incomprehensible
00:52:57why anyone could do that.
00:52:59But to those people
00:53:00within that system of values,
00:53:02that's totally acceptable.
00:53:16It was the middle of 1976.
00:53:20It was a birthday party
00:53:21that we threw in formants.
00:53:23We got one that,
00:53:24he was throwing himself
00:53:25a birthday party.
00:53:29I threw Nick a big party
00:53:32at the Time of Life building.
00:53:34In the street,
00:53:35that's all you could hear about.
00:53:37Did you get an invitation
00:53:38to Nick's party?
00:53:39You know, so if you didn't get one,
00:53:40you was just like,
00:53:41I'm going to get one.
00:53:42I'm going to get one.
00:53:43I'm going to get one.
00:53:44I'm going to get one.
00:53:45If you didn't get one,
00:53:46you was just like,
00:53:47outcast, you know.
00:53:57I really liked it also
00:53:58because it was very secure.
00:54:00It had two places
00:54:02that I could have
00:54:03his bodyguards
00:54:04that they could check
00:54:05for weapons,
00:54:06because I didn't want
00:54:07any weapons in there,
00:54:08and I didn't want the police
00:54:09slipping in there,
00:54:10you know, undercover police
00:54:11slipping in there.
00:54:12We decided what we would do
00:54:14is, you know, obviously,
00:54:15we would want to see
00:54:16who all his confederates were,
00:54:18and we would want
00:54:19to see them together.
00:54:21We decided that we would
00:54:22infiltrate the party
00:54:23if we could,
00:54:24and we would photo
00:54:25and identify
00:54:27all the different players
00:54:28that would come and go
00:54:30to this very, very,
00:54:31what we expected
00:54:32to be a very lavish party.
00:54:34In the middle of the party,
00:54:35I mean, it's like
00:54:363 o'clock in the morning now,
00:54:38and somebody comes upstairs
00:54:39so they don't know
00:54:40what's going on.
00:54:41They was like,
00:54:42Mrs. Barnes,
00:54:43do you know that there's
00:54:44a lot of federal agents
00:54:45downstairs looking
00:54:46in everybody's cars
00:54:47and taking down
00:54:48license plates?
00:54:50It became a little bit
00:54:53of a legend
00:54:54because every waiter
00:54:55in the place
00:54:56seemed to be
00:54:57talking into his tray.
00:55:01We actually had
00:55:02an undercover officer
00:55:03pose as a Mater D
00:55:04at the party,
00:55:06where he was able
00:55:07to actually observe,
00:55:08you know, the tributes
00:55:09that were given
00:55:10to Mickey Barnes.
00:55:11I mean, there were people
00:55:12that actually came up to him
00:55:13and handed him paper bags
00:55:14filled with cash.
00:55:17He was an arrogant
00:55:18drug dealer
00:55:19that needed
00:55:20to be taken down.
00:55:28God bless America.
00:55:30We sitting there
00:55:31at all our birthday parties
00:55:32because we had freedoms here
00:55:34that we wouldn't have
00:55:35anywhere else.
00:55:36And we exploited them.
00:55:39What we wanted to do
00:55:41was get involved
00:55:43with a business
00:55:44to surface
00:55:45a substantial amount
00:55:46of clean money.
00:55:48And this was
00:55:49a subject matter
00:55:50of periodic council
00:55:52meetings among us.
00:55:55I think it's
00:55:56every gangster's dream
00:55:57to ultimately envision himself
00:56:00going, quote, unquote,
00:56:01legit.
00:56:02And they have fancies
00:56:03about their kids
00:56:04going to prep schools,
00:56:06and one day their kid
00:56:07was going to be
00:56:08a senator,
00:56:09and this and that.
00:56:11I remember him saying
00:56:12that he felt closer
00:56:14to getting out of the game
00:56:16than he had ever felt
00:56:17at that time
00:56:18because he was getting money
00:56:20from his investments.
00:56:22I remember him
00:56:23talking about that,
00:56:24that all that stuff,
00:56:26he wanted to be
00:56:27the girls one day.
00:56:31We were getting kilos
00:56:32by the hundreds
00:56:33from Madonna.
00:56:34That whole part
00:56:35of the operation,
00:56:36which brought in income,
00:56:38was so finely tuned
00:56:39that we were able
00:56:40to step away from that
00:56:42and look beyond it
00:56:43to our broader vision.
00:56:46And that's when
00:56:47it was at its peak.
00:56:48It was at its peak.
00:57:10I was asked to do
00:57:11a piece on him,
00:57:12I said, of course I would,
00:57:13you know,
00:57:14because he seemed juicy,
00:57:15because he stood there
00:57:16because he stood there and went like this to everybody.
00:57:19Every gang, you know, the Italian crime, the Jewish crime, the Irish, as they came through,
00:57:28the dynamic was you were a criminal, you killed people, you made money, you invested in legitimate
00:57:35businesses, and you became a CEO.
00:57:40I recall getting a phone call from a fellow by the name of Fred Ferretti, and he said,
00:57:47David, we're going to put an article in the Times, and this will be the front page picture.
00:57:55Two days after that, I get a call from a fellow who introduces himself as A.M. Rosenthal.
00:58:01He says, my name is A.M. Rosenthal, and I said, perhaps you don't understand.
00:58:07I can't get involved in this posing Barnes for a picture.
00:58:12He said, no, Mr. Breitbart, perhaps you don't understand.
00:58:16If I don't get him posed for a picture the way you want, I'm going to put that picture
00:58:24when he was arrested in the middle of the night, and it was for the murder, and it's
00:58:30got a number across his chest, and he looks like he ate the victim's eyes.
00:58:35I'm going to put that on the front page of the New York Times.
00:58:38He said, what time will your photographer be here?
00:58:45He said, well, just bring me something down to the attorney's office to put on.
00:58:49So I bought him this red, white, and blue tie, because, you know, usually when they
00:58:52put an African-American on a cover with a muck shot, you know, you just think guilty
00:58:58already, you know.
00:59:01Well, I guess I kind of felt a little swell-headed about it, but at the same time, I was kind
00:59:08of praying in my heart of hearts that the red, white, and blue tie might have had a
00:59:12little bit more significance than the name Mr. Untouchable.
00:59:18I remember reading the New York Times and opening up the magazine, and there was this
00:59:31cocky, flamboyant, look at me, I am Mr. Untouchable.
00:59:36When I saw the article, I looked at it, I said, oh, shit.
00:59:39Oh, man, that was turmoil then.
00:59:42Whatever our problems was before, they have quadrupled.
00:59:48You got to follow the rules.
00:59:51I mean, the cop's job is to lock us up, and our job is not to get locked up.
00:59:55But you don't go na-na-na-na-na to stand up there in front of the New York Times with
01:00:01Mr. Untouchable, you know, what, are you fucking crazy?
01:00:04What are you doing?
01:00:06I came into the office on Monday morning, and around 8 o'clock in the morning, the
01:00:11phone rang.
01:00:12And it was Griffin Bell, who was the United States Attorney General at the time.
01:00:18And he said to me something to the effect that he had just come back from a cabinet
01:00:21meeting, and he said that President Carter had read this article.
01:00:25And he said, this is the most important case in the United States today.
01:00:30The letter that President Carter sent a month or so later, even though it was a nicely written
01:00:35letter, I took that to mean, don't screw it up.
01:00:42When me and G got hopping, when we started rolling, I mean, we were like the White Knights
01:00:49of Harlem, man.
01:00:53We didn't push that we wanted to meet Nicky face-on and do a hand-to-hand.
01:00:57We knew that was stupid.
01:00:58We weren't going to do that.
01:00:59But we did know that he was the head of the organization, and we wanted to deal with his
01:01:03people.
01:01:04I told Wally, we'll tell your people, you know, that not only can I, you know, do business
01:01:09with them on my level in terms of buying dope for them, but I could do services for them.
01:01:13Variety of different services, whatever they need.
01:01:15Money laundering, I got many connections still in New York.
01:01:19I do it myself.
01:01:20So Wally dropped that on Jazz, and I guess Jazz wanted to test the waters.
01:01:25You know, he wanted to test the waters, so he went for it.
01:01:32Running a bunch of small businesses, I accumulated a lot of small cash, and I just tried to reduce
01:01:37the cash.
01:01:38You know, I didn't want to report it, I didn't want to put it in a bank account or whatever
01:01:41the case may be.
01:01:42I was trying to reduce the quantity of cash, and I needed somebody to do this with.
01:01:49Somebody mentioned the fact that Wally had somebody that did this, and that person that
01:01:55they recommended was a DEA agent.
01:02:00Wally is a fucking asshole.
01:02:02I mean, nobody goes to him for anything.
01:02:06How could Jazz even go to this guy for anything except that he was so motherfucking obsessed
01:02:13with trying to make himself look self-sufficient?
01:02:17But he wasn't independent of me.
01:02:22Jazz commits to doing another laundry, another money wash for us.
01:02:26And me and Geronimo go upstairs.
01:02:28There's Jazz, there's the man, you know, sweet, nicely dressed, big medallion studded with
01:02:34diamonds, Jazz, right across, you know, the front of the medal, you know.
01:02:38I really wasn't concerned who he was, you know, because I wasn't doing anything that required
01:02:45me to be worried.
01:02:47I'm just changing small bills to big bills.
01:02:49I mean, it's a simple transaction.
01:02:53I pretty much rolled the dice.
01:02:55I told him, listen, Jazz, up until now, you know, I've done things with your people, and
01:02:59the shit hasn't come back right.
01:03:01I did an eighth with Petey, you know, for eight grand.
01:03:04The fucking shit fucking sucked.
01:03:06All I'm doing is saying to him, I'm trying to change this money.
01:03:08He's constantly, you know, trying to interject, you know, talking about drugs, man.
01:03:13I'm like, yeah, huh?
01:03:15And I'm trying to complete this transaction.
01:03:18I was waiting for your package.
01:03:20And then I went to the top of the hill, and you came to me, and I wasn't happy with that
01:03:24either.
01:03:26That was worse than the stuff I had to work for.
01:03:30Now, all Jazz had to say at that point was, what the fuck you talking about?
01:03:34I don't know these fucking people.
01:03:36You had to check with me, man.
01:03:38So, look, I'll drop and come by Friday night, and I'll talk to you.
01:03:42You'll see what I'm worth.
01:03:44But he went with it.
01:03:46He went with it.
01:03:47Again, big one.
01:03:49Big evidence.
01:03:50On tape.
01:03:57Plans were laid.
01:03:58The logistics were laid out.
01:03:59We had this phenomenal assembly of state troopers, police officers, federal agencies.
01:04:05You know, it was going to be a major sweep.
01:04:11I saw the surveillance.
01:04:12They had me surrounded.
01:04:13So, when I came back out of the bar after I had dropped off my gun, they arrested me.
01:04:27When Nick got arrested, they could not get him on possession.
01:04:33They got him with a continual criminal enterprise that had just came into law.
01:04:42The case that they made against me, they had to manufacture.
01:04:46I'm saying that they didn't have a case against me.
01:04:49I'm not saying...
01:04:50We had flooded Harlem with drugs.
01:04:52Harlem, the Bronx, and Brooklyn.
01:04:54I'm not talking about that, you know.
01:04:57But it was done masterfully enough so that we were beyond just a DS surveillance.
01:05:05I didn't even know a DS.
01:05:07While there were problems with virtually every piece of evidence that we had,
01:05:13we had such a variety, a matrix, if you will, to go back to the organization.
01:05:21We had proof that implicated each and every member in the organization
01:05:27and fit in with what Wally Fisher had told us was the relationship among all the folks,
01:05:34from Nicky on down.
01:05:37The government bent over backwards to make it be Nicky Barnes' case.
01:05:43And they were willing to take whatever steps were necessary.
01:05:46The focus was, we are targeting Barnes because he was Mr. Untouchable.
01:05:58That trial was the first anonymous jury in the history of the United States.
01:06:03I said, Judge, how can you pick a jury if you don't know what their names and addresses are,
01:06:07if you don't know what religion they are,
01:06:09if you don't know what kind of community they come from,
01:06:11if you don't know what their economic background is?
01:06:14The trial was bullshit, huh?
01:06:18They put 15 people on trial in a major drug conspiracy
01:06:24that half of them didn't know the other half.
01:06:27A big thing was that they had these mountains of electronic surveillance tapes
01:06:34and telephone taps and tap this and so and so,
01:06:38and informers who had wires on them.
01:06:42A whole lot of shit that they had.
01:06:44But nothing with Nicky Barnes on it.
01:06:46Nothing.
01:06:48You have to understand, you're not going to find Nicky Barnes out on the street
01:06:53You have to understand, you're not going to find Nicky Barnes out on the street
01:06:57selling drugs any more than you would expect to find the chairman of General Motors
01:07:02on the assembly line making cars.
01:07:09That's what we did every day. It became a normal part of life.
01:07:12We got up in the morning, we got dressed, and we went to trial.
01:07:16They had a star witness that we didn't know anything about.
01:07:19And when she got up on the stand, that was it.
01:07:23You know, she confirmed the continual criminal enterprise
01:07:27and it just was not good.
01:07:29And then you got the president saying, you know, I want him off the street.
01:07:34Right in the middle of the trial, after the seventh game of the World Series,
01:07:38Reggie Jackson won the game with a home run, his third home run.
01:07:42And Jimmy Breslin, the columnist for the New York Daily News,
01:07:45wrote a column the next day describing a conversation he had after the game
01:07:49and it was a little bit of a surprise to him.
01:07:52He said, you know, I don't know what you're talking about.
01:07:55I don't know what you're talking about.
01:07:57I don't know what you're talking about.
01:07:59He wrote a column the next day describing a conversation he had after the game
01:08:03and it was a little black kid from Harlem, maybe eight or nine years old.
01:08:07And Breslin had said to him, well, I guess your hero is Reggie Jackson, right?
01:08:16The kid said, no, no, my hero is Nicky Barnes.
01:08:20When I got word that we had a verdict,
01:08:24I got in an elevator and I'm coming down,
01:08:27and at some point Bob Fisk got on the elevator
01:08:30and we're getting ready to walk over to the courtroom.
01:08:33And I said to myself, Bob seems very cool, very calm.
01:08:38I don't feel like that.
01:08:40And then Bob turned to me, he said,
01:08:43gee, I wonder what the jury wants to know.
01:08:46He said, gee, I wonder what the jury wants to know.
01:08:49I wonder what their note says.
01:08:52And I looked at him, I said, Bob, it's not a note.
01:08:56It's a verdict.
01:08:58Leroy Nicky Barnes was perhaps Harlem's and one of the country's biggest drug dealers.
01:09:03He sported the fur coats and fancy cars that marked his success.
01:09:07At 45, he was known as the untouchable
01:09:10because the law couldn't seem to lay a hand on him.
01:09:13But the day, he was sentenced to life in prison.
01:09:26When the conviction comes down,
01:09:29your mind goes fast forward and you immediately fast forward to the appeal process.
01:09:34The business plan, in the event that I was convicted,
01:09:37was that we were going to keep our investments going
01:09:41and we were going to keep powder coming in
01:09:43and we were going to maintain the same type of discipline
01:09:46that we had when we were all together.
01:09:52I knew that I had to be strong, I had my girls,
01:09:55and I had to keep hold of what he had.
01:09:58Nick is not here, you know, but we still here, you know,
01:10:02so, you know, business as usual.
01:10:04But nobody stood behind me with that.
01:10:08And the longer he was away, the more he saw
01:10:11or started hearing things in the street that he didn't like.
01:10:30I don't need no joint, I got flight for no motherfucking parole.
01:10:34And I'm still doing shit for these niggas in here.
01:10:37I'm still doing even all of that.
01:10:40Why am I sending out supply after supply
01:10:43and they're sitting out there fucking up money,
01:10:46buying bad loads of shit?
01:10:51I think that probably the breakdown began
01:10:55with Guy's obsession to fill my shoes.
01:11:02The king is dead, but long live the king, because I'm the new king.
01:11:07I'm the new king.
01:11:18There was a lot of chaos.
01:11:20It was a whole different game,
01:11:22especially when crack came on the scene.
01:11:24It was a lot more violent town,
01:11:26it was a lot more scary than it'd be out.
01:11:29The Barnes organization defended those locations,
01:11:32and they shot a lot of people.
01:11:35Funky, you know, it just got funky.
01:11:38Like a nightmare, from a dream to a nightmare.
01:11:44One day I went down to David Breitbart's office,
01:11:47and I was looking, and I saw a piece of paper,
01:11:50and it said, pick up Nick's jewelry from Chemeka.
01:11:56I found out that she was, you know, Nick's little girlfriend.
01:12:01She had heard about Chemeka,
01:12:04and she was pissed, she was really pissed.
01:12:10She changed her name to Chemeka Barnes.
01:12:13I think I was more, that's what I was really angry about.
01:12:16Because I didn't know whether,
01:12:18okay, well, you guys so tight
01:12:21that you gave her your last name.
01:12:27He kept lying, and I knew he was lying.
01:12:30It changed my feelings for him a great deal.
01:12:35It changed my feelings a great deal.
01:12:42Thelma, Thelma was disloyal to me.
01:12:45So I called, I called one of my buddies, you know.
01:12:48And he said, yeah, he said, Nick, he said,
01:12:51she was on 7th Avenue,
01:12:54and you're a Mercedes, and you're a white Mercedes.
01:12:58And he said, I didn't even see them.
01:13:01They called me to the car.
01:13:04He said, he said, Tito called me to the car
01:13:07because he wanted me to see that he had your woman.
01:13:11And, you know, Thelma got involved with this character,
01:13:15and she began to disregard what were her duties to me.
01:13:22Nick knew the legitimate reason why I got angry
01:13:26was because of Shemekka,
01:13:28but he would never say that part, you know.
01:13:31He'll never say, well, you know,
01:13:34when she found out about Shemekka, she got upset,
01:13:38and, you know, so she turned to someone else.
01:13:41That would be, like, too close to the truth.
01:13:44Let me lay it down next to me
01:13:48Let me lay it down next to me, girl
01:13:53Let me tell you things that I want you to
01:13:58He had a girlfriend. She was a very attractive woman.
01:14:02He really cared about her. It was his woman.
01:14:05And Guy Fisher, you know, there's an old saying,
01:14:08there's a lot of fish in the sea.
01:14:10You know, you don't have to go after my girl, and he did.
01:14:13And when the word got back to Nicky,
01:14:16We had bought the Apollo,
01:14:18and Guy was handling all of the renovation
01:14:21and opening of the Apollo,
01:14:23and I'm hearing stories about him
01:14:26sitting up in the balcony with my woman,
01:14:29kissing on my woman.
01:14:31Look at that guy, a big-ass, faggot-ass motherfucker,
01:14:35you know, but he got involved with my woman.
01:14:39So I'm saying to myself, like, what does that mean,
01:14:42nigga, that you did it?
01:14:44You did that to her.
01:14:46Guy put himself in the position of dictating policy to me.
01:14:51I'm the one who dictated the policy, not he.
01:14:54You don't fuck with the king's woman.
01:14:56You can be a womanizer all you want, you know,
01:14:59but you don't violate the rules.
01:15:01And when he violated them, he had to pay.
01:15:06I said to Frank, I want you to lay down Tito,
01:15:10and I want Guy in the ground.
01:15:12I want him horizontal, man.
01:15:14That's what I want done.
01:15:16And he said, well, I'm going to get it down.
01:15:18So anyhow, he's not doing anything,
01:15:20and as I'm looking at it, I know why he's not doing anything.
01:15:25The guys began to realize that I wasn't getting out.
01:15:31I'm thinking to myself, and I remember saying to myself,
01:15:35I can't run it, but I sure could wreck that motherfucker, man.
01:15:39I can't run it, but I could wreck it.
01:15:42I can't run it, but I could wreck it.
01:15:45I can't run it, but I could wreck it.
01:16:08I was called by Jim Moss, my unit chief,
01:16:14to join him in Bill Tendi's office,
01:16:17and was told that Barnes contacted Bill Tendi,
01:16:22and either Bill played for or gave me an audio tape
01:16:27that he had made of a conversation he had had with Barnes.
01:16:31Now, go ahead, tell me what it is you have in mind.
01:16:35In general, there are a few friends of mine,
01:16:39former friends of mine,
01:16:42that were just...
01:16:44I can't hear you very well.
01:16:45They were a couple of friends of mine
01:16:47that were supposed to be doing things for me, you know?
01:16:49Yep.
01:16:50And, well, they're doing things against me, really.
01:16:54Mm-hmm.
01:16:55And I have no way to reach out to get to them,
01:16:58and I want to get back at them, really.
01:17:00That's my primary reason.
01:17:02I listened to that tape and tried to understand
01:17:05what would he hope to gain by cooperating,
01:17:07because there was very little we could actually offer him
01:17:11of a reward or an inducement.
01:17:14Bill said, it's always the same.
01:17:17It's revenge, revenge, revenge.
01:17:19Took my money
01:17:22You got my honey
01:17:24Nick went about setting me up,
01:17:26which was another thing that really hurt.
01:17:30They extradited me back to New York,
01:17:33and I'm sitting there watching television,
01:17:35and it's a flash that Leroy Nicky Barnes
01:17:40has turned state's evidence.
01:17:43This person's been arrested, that person, this person,
01:17:46that person, that person,
01:17:48and the wife of his two children.
01:17:51Nine former associates of Harlem drug king Leroy Nicky Barnes
01:17:55charged today with narcotics, conspiracy, and six murders.
01:17:58As Jim VanSickle learned, the man behind the charges
01:18:01is none other than Barnes himself.
01:18:05When I heard that he had flipped, I was shocked and surprised,
01:18:09because I had a great deal of respect for this guy,
01:18:12as did everyone I knew.
01:18:14So it did come as a major, major surprise.
01:18:18It was almost unbelievable.
01:18:21He put something beautiful together, and he made us men,
01:18:25and people looked up and respected us.
01:18:27In all reality, he was a coward.
01:18:30I mean, I can say that from my heart.
01:18:32I don't think he did it because he thought he'd get a deal.
01:18:36I went to bat for him.
01:18:38The U.S. attorney at the time, Rudy Giuliani, went to bat for him.
01:18:42But he had to know that that,
01:18:45that was not likely to be in the cards for him.
01:18:50If Nick would have flipped right away
01:18:52because he didn't want to go to jail,
01:18:54I think I would have been surprised,
01:18:56because he was the John Gotti before John Gotti.
01:18:59You know, he was the gangster, he was the man, you know?
01:19:03But when I found out why he did it,
01:19:05you want to talk about the word of don't rat?
01:19:08Well, that's one thing that's real strong,
01:19:10but fucking payback and revenge is even stronger.
01:19:20Just before the trial, Shemekka was murdered.
01:19:26Well, she was in this bar up on Broadway, Amsterdam,
01:19:30where everybody used to hang out.
01:19:32Two guys come in, and they walk up to her and shoot her in the head.
01:19:44Shemekka went down.
01:19:50They did it to intimidate me, you know,
01:19:53in hoping that I would retract my testimony
01:19:58or that I would be reluctant to maybe testify at a trial.
01:20:04Nicky Barnes was once New York's biggest heroin dealer,
01:20:07heading up an alleged seven-man drug ring called The Council.
01:20:10Now he is the government's star witness,
01:20:13recently testifying in court and at a presidential commission
01:20:16accusing his former partners of drug conspiracy and murder.
01:20:21When the time arrived for me to actually testify to them on the stand,
01:20:27I was overwhelmed by guilt, and I had been betrayed.
01:20:31I had every reason, I had every reason to testify against them
01:20:36and no reason at all to feel guilty.
01:20:40But it's that street-corner indoctrination,
01:20:44that criminal ethic, that street-corner value,
01:20:47that criminal ethic, that street-corner value system,
01:20:50it's overpowering.
01:20:52And I started crying on the stand.
01:21:00These stories generally are only told by people like Nicky Barnes,
01:21:07people that already told these stories on the stand,
01:21:12and they're rats.
01:21:18You don't inform all your friends.
01:21:21But at that point there, the guy I knew ceased to exist.
01:21:25For me, the Nick I knew died.
01:21:37In other words, they're saying that,
01:21:41hey, Nick, you broke the golden rule.
01:21:45And I'm saying, what good is a rule
01:21:49if the rule ain't a jewel that's fit for the crown of the king?
01:21:54If you're going to take the rule and just use it to make bling,
01:21:58and you're going to say, fuck the king,
01:22:00then the king going to sing.
01:22:15I think my information resulted in maybe 75 or 80 felony convictions.
01:22:22They have a place in the Louisburg Federal Penitentiary
01:22:25that they call the Nicky Barnes Range,
01:22:28because all the people up there were people that I gave up.
01:22:33They have a place in the Louisburg Federal Penitentiary
01:22:36that they call the Nicky Barnes Range,
01:22:38because all the people up there were people that I gave up.
01:22:51My name is Frank James.
01:22:53I'm calling from Otisville, F.C.I. prison in upstate New York,
01:22:59and I'm doing life without parole plus 40 years.
01:23:04I've been down 23 years and 11 months.
01:23:09The worst thing that the government or whoever did it
01:23:15could have done was name him Mr. Untouchable.
01:23:21Get, get, get down!
01:23:24I think that when people talk about him,
01:23:28they'll talk more about,
01:23:30they'll talk a little about him being a snitch,
01:23:34but more about him being an ex-drug addict
01:23:38and coming up to reach the heights that he did.
01:23:43The drugs kept the hood from starving.
01:23:45Pushing cars, Nicky Barnes was the 70s,
01:23:47but there's a long list of high-profile celebrities.
01:23:50There's only one thing that's definite about that life
01:23:53that's not gonna last.
01:23:55One time, one day, grasp me
01:23:57As I'm about to blast heat, 40 side of Vernon
01:23:59I turn, well, he asks me
01:24:01What you up to, the cops gonna bust you
01:24:03I was a teen drunk off brew
01:24:05I'm like everybody else, you know.
01:24:07My credit cards is maxed out, you know,
01:24:10I go home every night,
01:24:12and I ain't gotta take a different route,
01:24:14and I don't have to have guns
01:24:16under the cushions in my house,
01:24:18and you know, people can come to my door
01:24:21and announce now, you know,
01:24:23and people don't even know where I live,
01:24:25and I don't have to change my name
01:24:27to take a flight somewhere
01:24:29and do all of those things,
01:24:31so that's the dues that I paid,
01:24:33and that's what I try to pass on
01:24:35to these kids that want to be gangsters.
01:24:37It's real for the soldier
01:24:38Walks in the courtroom
01:24:39The look in his eyes is wild
01:24:41Triple homicide, I sit in the back aisle
01:24:43I wanna crack a smile when I see him
01:24:45I'm not trying to justify or rationalize
01:24:48anything, you know, that was taking place
01:24:51in terms of, you know, drugs in the community,
01:24:55violence, any of those things,
01:24:57but I think that, and this is my opinion,
01:25:01is that the real criminals in this country,
01:25:04you know, even though the media
01:25:06tends to focus on the ones that are
01:25:08at the bottom of the social ladder,
01:25:12the real criminals are at the top.
01:25:29I'm still here, yeah, I'm still here,
01:25:32and I'm still keeping on.
01:25:34You understand, you need to lay down
01:25:36what you did, you did.
01:25:38You understand, I don't have no love for you,
01:25:41but I don't hate you.
01:25:43Why, I don't know.
01:25:45I wish I could tell you why I don't,
01:25:47but I don't.
01:25:49You understand, I'm not gonna wish you
01:25:51bluebirds, you understand,
01:25:53but I'm not gonna wish you falcons
01:25:55and buzzards either.
01:25:57Just go ahead, man, and just live your life,
01:25:59whatever you're doing,
01:26:00and just leave us alone.
01:26:02Leave the streets alone, you understand?
01:26:04And if you do have to say something,
01:26:06then a positive word out there to them kids,
01:26:09and tell them that what you did was wrong.
01:26:11Tell them that, you understand?
01:26:14Stop trying to relive the life that you had,
01:26:17because when you really look at it,
01:26:19we didn't do nothing.
01:26:21So whatever you did,
01:26:23and for whatever reason you did it,
01:26:25you did it, it's done, rest.
01:26:28Rest, brother.
01:26:46During the course of my readings,
01:26:47I read something else.
01:26:48I read Moby Dick.
01:26:50Ahab, in his relentless pursuit
01:26:53of the white whale, in my mind,
01:26:55was synonymous with the pursuit
01:26:57of the green dollar.
01:26:58And he was willing to accept
01:27:00all of the consequences
01:27:02that went along with that.
01:27:07Captain Ahab was just dynamically involved
01:27:11in his own destruction.
01:27:14Ahab said at one point,
01:27:16my greatest torment has become
01:27:18my greatest joy.
01:27:21But it's that obsession that drove him,
01:27:24and it's that same type of obsession
01:27:26that not only I felt,
01:27:28that all of us felt
01:27:29when it came to pursuing the dollar,
01:27:31and then even sacrificing whatever
01:27:33had to be sacrificed to get it done.
01:27:47When I came into the program,
01:27:49I left Nicky Barnes behind.
01:27:53I emerged from that a different person,
01:27:57with a different set of values,
01:27:59a set of values that they don't even understand.
01:28:03And they could call me a snitch.
01:28:06I'd rather be here
01:28:09and be considered a betrayer of them
01:28:14than to be in there
01:28:16and to be considered a stand-up guy
01:28:19while they could be out here
01:28:20violating the rules.
01:28:23I'm out there in.
01:28:26God, life without parole.
01:28:31That means he's gonna die in prison.
01:28:37And Ms. Frank's gonna die in prison.
01:28:41It's not as though I hear their names
01:28:43and I say, oh, I forgive them,
01:28:47for they know not what they did.
01:28:50No, that ain't happening, you know.
01:28:53I'm saying, yeah, yeah.
01:28:57Forgive them, but they now know
01:28:59who they fucketh with,
01:29:01and it shouldn't have been me.
01:29:17♪♪
01:29:47♪♪
01:29:50♪♪
01:29:53♪♪
01:29:56♪♪
01:29:59♪♪
01:30:02♪♪
01:30:05♪♪
01:30:08♪♪
01:30:11Hey, man, what's up?
01:30:15People of our nation,
01:30:17as you all know, drugs have been declared
01:30:19public enemy number one.
01:30:21Drugs are quickly and unconsciously
01:30:23becoming a part of our culture.
01:30:25The leaders of our culture are making an all-out effort
01:30:28to combat against drug abuse.
01:30:30But if we are ever to defeat this problem,
01:30:33we all must participate because we all are involved,
01:30:36whether we indulge in drugs or not,
01:30:38merely by living in this drug-infested society.
01:30:42As our contribution to the drug war,
01:30:45we are introducing a new dance called the kick.
01:30:48Hoping those of you who are trying to kick
01:30:50or those of you who would like to kick
01:30:52will get caught up on the kick influence.
01:30:54In order to lick it, you get to kick it, kick it, kick it,
01:30:58kick it, kick it, kick it, kick it, kick it, kick it.
01:31:00♪
01:31:30♪