James and Phil discuss Sunderland's brilliant win over Burnley and all the latest transfer news
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00:00Hello, welcome to the On The Whistle video from the Stadium of Light. Sunderland beat
00:14Burnley 1-0. First time in Sunderland's entire history they've won the Open in three league
00:18games without conceiving a goal, Phil. A really, really measured performance. Obviously Sunderland
00:24had to come back from a little bit of adversity as well. Romain Mundell getting the goal,
00:27Dan Neal getting sent off. That was really impressive I thought. It's definitely the
00:33best win of the season so far in terms of they basically played two different games
00:37and won them both. The first 25 minutes completely dominated the game, that really aggressive
00:41front foot football. And then the second half obviously they had to absorb a lot of pressure
00:45didn't they? They had to show that sort of counter-attacking, that resilience and probably
00:50the best part of the game really was at the end there. It was great to see Ballard and
00:53Triantis coming on and it was just forget your tactics, forget your shape, forget all
00:57that stuff. Just defend your lines and I think you saw a real spirit in the team. Honestly
01:01I'm so impressed with how they played today. You could see what Burnley, they were trying
01:04to bait the press so they could go long and try and attack really quickly. Sunderland
01:08just pressed the life out of them. When the few times they got the ball forward, Alisse
01:12and O'Neill were all over it. I want to mention Alisse first before I forget because I thought
01:16he was man of the match today. I think he's been so good. It's been so good this season,
01:21I'm sorry about that. I'll just bring that back to account. I'm just too excited about
01:25Adi Alisse's defensive performance. I think you wrote in your play ratings that he's probably
01:29going under the radar at the moment but I think it shouldn't be understated what he's
01:33done to come in and replace Ballard and I think 0-9 as well has been absolutely sublime
01:39since the season started. The whole thing is just so pleasing at the moment that I don't
01:43even really know where to look at it. Well it says everything that we're two minutes
01:48in and we haven't even talked about Jack Clarke leaving yet. That's how good Sunderland
01:51is. Which was the story coming out of the game. Sort of all forgotten about him. I'm
01:55sure we'll talk about him as the season goes on because we are going to miss him, let's
01:58be honest. We'll cover that on a podcast I imagine. But yeah, really good. Let's get
02:02into some questions. David Keeler says, do you think that was more impressive than Sheffield
02:06Wednesday considering the opposition? Yeah, I definitely do. Also because Sunderland probably
02:12should have scored more actually early on but they had to play almost a different game.
02:16Sheffield Wednesday, the game was over wasn't it really within about half an hour whereas
02:18this one, because they didn't get those extra goals, they all started to come again and
02:22show a different side of their game, defend well. Burnley have got so much talent and
02:25there were times in the second half where you kind of went, alright, Burnley are getting
02:28into this. We're starting to see their quality. I mean Patson barely had a save to make so
02:33for me that was more impressive because the defensive side of the game was so good. Like
02:37brilliant early on, really exciting but then showed a completely different side of their
02:42game to get over the line. I think it's more impressive than the Sheffield Wednesday game
02:45just because of the game management. Yeah, I completely agree. We've talked about what
02:50Labrie has had to tick off during his early Sunderland career, away win, clean sheet,
02:53home win, first game in front of Sunderland fans and then today actually they've survived
02:58a little bit of a gut check. Yes, they haven't conceded but Neil's been sent off earlier
03:02in the game. Paveda was warming up, Labrie's has cancelled that, he's brought on Dan Ballard.
03:07I thought the subs he made, the times he made them were sublime. Obviously substitutions
03:10are sort of, it's one of those isn't it, when they work they work, when they don't they
03:14don't. But Alan Brown I thought came on and shewered things up and that was such a smart
03:17sub, an obvious sub to make but he did it at the right time. I thought that was the
03:23most impressive performance of the season for him. I praised Brown after the Cardiff
03:26game but obviously there's only people that will watch on the telly and stuff, I'm pleased
03:29I think people on the ground today will have got a sense of how clever he is. He's so athletic
03:32as well. The positions he picks up, there was one where he just stepped in and won a
03:35foul wasn't there when they were under a bit of pressure, really clever play. I imagine
03:39he'll come in for Neil next weekend, not his favourite position to play at the base midfield
03:43but I'm sure he'll do a great job. That was interesting Labrousse's answer on that to
03:46you wasn't it, when you asked about that. Yeah I said you haven't got any solutions
03:49there really have you, because we've talked about the holder midfielder for like two years,
03:52sorry everyone, but he just said I will find one. I think it's going to be Brown instead,
03:56I've got no major concerns. No he's brilliantly blunt isn't he at times Regis Labrousse. Right
04:00let's have a question from John Ridley, friend of the show. If we carry on with this form
04:04will we be promoted by February, is that acceptable? I think it's all about HMS,
04:10Walker League. Don't say it, my life just passed before my eyes. We must say it is early days but
04:16I think the Cardiff game obviously there was mitigation Cardiff were a pure side,
04:20Sheffield Wednesday weren't quite sure how they were going to be. This today has made me think
04:24actually I think there's something here and with a few additions I think what I said and you called
04:28us a grouch after the Sheffield Wednesday game, I still think that's true. Clark's gone, we still
04:32need a few additions, hopefully they're coming. Obviously the striker situation as well but
04:37I've been hugely encouraged by the coach and by the way the players have implemented his strategy.
04:42Yeah I said to you about midway through the second half I said kind of whatever happens here I'm
04:45coming away from this game feeling positive even if it's a bit like what happened a couple of years
04:48ago when I think they scored four goals like crosses started flying in and when I came away I
04:53said no matter what happens here I've seen enough from this team today against this standard of
04:57opposition to feel like some of the playoff contenders. As you said it's a big few days,
05:00there's still a little bit of work to do, not getting carried away but I feel like the team's
05:03in a really good place. Obviously the big thing is how they respond to a little bit of adversity
05:07because it is coming at some point but generally speaking the organisation is top class. That's
05:12the next test of all of the things I've listed, that's the next test, how will Sunderland cope
05:15when they go behind because it's something they haven't experienced yet. I've got a question from
05:18Josh Kemp who often sends one into the show so thank you very much, he said did Sunderland look
05:23like they missed Clark at any point? Really really interesting question because on the day I would
05:28say no, however when we were speaking during the game you turned to me and said this would be a
05:32period of the game where Jack Clark would get the ball, take it 40 yards up the pitch, win a foul
05:36and I think that was very valid. Whilst we might not have missed him in terms of the result,
05:40I think in terms of how important a player is, just how good he is, you're always going to miss
05:44Jack Clark. Romain Mundell did well today, got the goal, fantastic but he's not Jack Clark.
05:48I think the ceiling that Clark broke through the last couple of years was doing it every week.
05:52There's a lot of players with Clark's talent, the thing for him was he was able to get the
05:56point where he was able to do it over and over again and it's absolutely no criticism, I suspect
06:00we're not going to have that from Mundell just yet because he's played so little senior football.
06:04And nor should we expect it. And we shouldn't expect it and it's really important that we don't
06:07compare him to Clark every week. So today we didn't and to be fair, I'll tell you what Mundell
06:11is where everyone behind the scenes was talking about Mundell long before we knew Clark was going
06:14through pre-season, his attitude and I think you see it, he digs in, he tackles, he runs,
06:19he was getting so much praise, we saw flashes of it in his performances. I really felt, I'm not
06:23saying I knew he was going to score because I didn't but I just felt he was ready for an
06:27opportunity and I think he took it. But we have to be patient because he might not be at that
06:30level next week, it might take him like Clark did a while and I think that's really important.
06:33Sometimes he'll use different options and he might have a dip and that's fine,
06:36Wilson can come in or whatever. And I think Lebris has done with Mundell what he's sort of
06:41done with Maender as well, okay you've played well for me against Bradford City pre-season,
06:45here's the shirt, we were speculating last night weren't we, might he shove Job over to the left
06:49wing, Browning or put Rigg up there, that would have been a viable option for me, I was sort of
06:54in favour of that but he said no, you've played well for me, you're a left winger, you're going
06:57in from the start, try and repair me. And I think for all we thought about Regis Lebris, I don't
07:03think we had him pegged as a decent man manager but everybody seems to know where they stand with
07:07him. Yeah I think he keeps it simple in that front, I think he's quite direct with the players
07:12and I think that's kind of his way of doing it and that can be really sort of effective. I'm
07:15pleased he went with Mundell because Mundell deserved his opportunity and I think it would
07:18have, personally I think, I know it's easy to say hindsight, I think it would have sent the
07:21wrong message to play someone out of position, so I'm pleased he did that. We spoke to him after
07:25the game as well and the lad is buzzing and it was so nice to see with a smile on his face. He's
07:29got a great attitude, really good temperament. I think that's probably the first time he's scored
07:32in front of 40,000 fans and it's just given the career trajectory he's been on, obviously it
07:38didn't quite work out at top, he went at standardly age, a little bit of disappointment, he's sort of
07:41been around the houses a little bit, couldn't have suddenly had that moment, is really good. I'm
07:45excited about him. Yeah I am as well. While you're looking, I know there's loads of questions about
07:51strikers, so shall I talk a little bit while you look for the next one about strikers? Yes, you talk about
07:54strikers, what is the update? So my understanding is that Sunderland probably want two forwards,
08:00now that Clarke's gone, that's on top of Wilson. So is that meant to be on Symmetra? So I think who
08:04they sign depends on who they can get, i.e. I think like everybody knows, sometimes it drives us a
08:10bit up the wall, but Sunderland, they're like versatile forwards, they play in
08:14different positions, so I think it's more that they want two forwards rather than two out-and-out
08:17strikers. Now what might happen is they might sign two strikers, which means they probably won't
08:21replace Clarke, if that makes sense, because then you have Wilson who'll probably play more off the left,
08:26Mundell obviously has stepped up today, which will definitely be taken into consideration. Watson on
08:29the bench today as well, that's something he could do again. Yeah, so I think they will sign probably two
08:33players, I don't know whether it'll be a winger and a striker or two strikers. Mendy, absolutely
08:38still in the race for, still want to do it, still hopefully can do it, Siligaton valuation, they've
08:42essentially agreed the broad outstrokes of an agreement and then the takeover happened and the
08:49new regime decided they wanted a different deal, which to be fair is absolutely their right, it's
08:53now their club and that's why you see this limbo. So Sunderland is still hoping that something will
08:57get sorted, but it's not guaranteed. And he's pushing for it. And he definitely wants it, there's no doubt
09:01about it. I don't think anyone, I think he wants to play for Sunderland even more than me and you, which I absolutely love.
09:05Simic, he wasn't here for a medical the other day, that was a bit people getting carried
09:10away, but he has been here for talks. So he has met, well I don't know if it was in person or
09:14on Zoom, but he's had talks with the club. Again, I think Sunderland are shuffling their options a
09:19little bit, but it's definitely one that could happen, but it wasn't the case and it was like a
09:23done deal. They've spoken to him, I think the lad's got a few options. So he's one of the few that I
09:26think is in play. Do you feel like lessons have been learned? I think when the club were recruit
09:30players in League One, it was all about your Jack Clark, people like that, they were very, very young,
09:34but they had that opportunity to grow the club. I feel like they tried to repeat that trick with
09:39with Hemiya, with Maianda, and it's taken them a little bit of time because they weren't afforded
09:42that opportunity. It was straight to the championship. The profile of players Sunderland
09:45seem to be going through this window feels to me to be a little different. They're a bit further on.
09:50Well, hopefully that's partially because of the Clark money. Now, we both said we felt the fee
09:54was a bit light and I think we would stand by that, but ultimately it's a significant deal
09:58and maybe that extra money is just allowing them to be a bit more ambitious and to look at a
10:02slightly different profile of player. I mean, Sunderland would, you know, they obviously, we sign
10:06experienced players, it's just that last year they weren't fit, i.e. Bradley, Dak, but I agree
10:09with you totally. I think hopefully we're starting to see that moral work where somebody goes, which
10:13allows you to look at the next rung almost. Shall we talk about the Clark fee very quickly before
10:18we dive into a couple more questions? I thought it was slightly low, but I do understand the context
10:22in which there wasn't really a bidding war for us. Sunderland potentially have a sell-on fee from
10:28Ipswich and that money does allow... They do have a sell-on, they do have a sell-on. So it's basically
10:34£18 million, £3 million of the add-ons are going to happen unless something goes
10:37completely wrong. Top them to get 25% of all of that. Yeah, and then there's a sell-on,
10:41which you'd think you'd move at some point in the future for a reasonable fee and something
10:45that will see a bit of that. So realistically, it's going to be a £20 million, maybe a little
10:49bit more than that transfer. It's not an amazing fee, it's not a terrible fee. I understand it,
10:57the reality is... Are we in a Sunderland bubble about it, do you think? Because I've looked at
11:02other players before and I've thought that club is overvaluing that player. But for me, in this
11:06instance, I don't think we were overvaluing. No, it's a bit light, but the reality is that the
11:10teams, we all thought he was going to go this summer because we thought West Ham's, Crystal
11:13Palace's, Brentford's, we thought that was going to be the market and it wasn't there and that's
11:18why ultimately the fee isn't as great. So there's an argument that realistically, you could have
11:23kept him for a year because you'd probably get a similar fee next summer if he had a good year.
11:28That's still where I'm at with it, but it's nice to be able to watch someone win and feel a little
11:32bit more relaxed about it. Yeah, it helps when you win. One user says, I love Daniel, but you
11:37can't do that with a match open and the other team chasing. Lebris needs to talk to him about it.
11:41Was it daft? Probably a little bit. Is it a really, really bad foul? No. The second one,
11:45I don't really have an issue with. It's a dangerous attack, he's gone to get there,
11:48it's 50-50, he's missed it. The first one, I think he got it for kicking the ball away a couple of
11:52yards. I didn't see the first one. That one's probably a bit of a cheap foul for a defensive
11:56midfielder to get, because you know you might have to make a tackle. The one thing I would say
12:00is, for me, I don't think there's any drama there. He's previously an attacking midfielder who's
12:05dropping back, he's learning his craft, he's doing amazingly well, really. I think the first one was
12:10cheap. The second one, I've got no criticism whatsoever. He nearly got there. Burnley almost
12:14had an overload. He won them up. I think he did the right thing. Lucky for him, it hasn't cost us.
12:19Yeah, and the first one was a bit cheap, but I mean, there's no way I'm ever going to criticise
12:23Dan Neal for anything ever. I just think it's a new role for him and I think he'll learn from it.
12:30We've touched on this one, but do you think Ballard will start the next game with our
12:33defence being as good as it is right now? No, I don't think so.
12:35I don't think so. He'll be back on the team soon enough because he's brilliant,
12:38but I don't think he can drop the lease here.
12:40With Neal suspended, Ballard coming back to zone nine, plays the six,
12:44or do we see Travis or Brown? I don't think so, I think Brown's in there.
12:47You're not going to move zone nine. I think that debate's done now,
12:51the level he's playing at at centre half, I think it'll be Brown. Not ideal,
12:54but I'm not too concerned about it either.
12:55This is an interesting question from Ian Smith. Great performance,
12:58team rolls on without Clarke. Is Ekwer next out based on the players
13:03coming in ahead of him? Didn't come on today, was on the bench. That remains...
13:08It's a possibility, but the only insight I can give you is that as of yesterday,
13:12everything I've heard is that at the moment the bids are just absolutely not there.
13:17Ekwer, I think, would consider a move because he's not in the team and he's not close to at
13:20the moment. Sunderland would consider selling him for the exact same reason,
13:24but at the moment, from what I understand, the bids just aren't there. When Udinese first came
13:28in, when I had the conversations with people, they said the offer isn't particularly serious.
13:33They're not showing a real, real intent to come and get him because of the level of offer.
13:37At the moment, I don't think he'll go, but that could obviously change quickly. It's
13:39definitely a possibility, but the one thing I would say is people are talking as if it's
13:42a little bit inevitable. At the moment, I don't think that's the case.
13:46Is it a bit of a catch-22 in a sense that Sunderland value Ekwer at a certain level of
13:52money, which is absolutely fair enough, but he's actually not in the team at the moment,
13:55so any bids coming in, they're going to be looking at that thinking, hang on a minute,
13:57you value him at this point.
13:58That's part of the game, but let's be honest, if Sunderland sold Ekwer on the cheap and he goes to
14:02another club and starts playing like he did in that Southampton game last year, then we're going
14:08to...
14:08I actually think we'll need Ekwer at some point.
14:10Sometimes you need a little bit of patience. I'm quite relaxed about that. Should we end by
14:13just talking a little bit about Lebris laying down a bit of a marker there, confirming Aushish
14:17and Barr, it was tactical, said there's a way back for them, but said they'd have to work hard.
14:23Aushish I'm surprised by, Barr not so much.
14:26Barr's been a bit unlucky in that he had a pre-season injury, which I think held him back
14:29a bit, but yeah, Aushish has showed a decent attitude, so I'm a bit surprised by that,
14:33but he's really laid a marker down there. I don't think either of them will go, but he
14:37definitely said it's a possibility, so that's one to watch. 15 minutes, I think we should
14:41call it there.
14:42Yeah, I think that's a good stint. Thank you for doing all of the questions. We've been
14:45doing all of the questions, sending all of the questions in, we really appreciate it.
14:48We'll be doing a roll pod maybe Tuesday.
14:50Tuesday probably, yeah.
14:50Because Bank Holiday Monday and we're both off, which is nice.
14:52And we're the lads, man.