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(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Shahid Hashmi (Analyst)
- Kamran Akmal (Former Cricketer)
- Fawad Chaudhry (Politician)
Why Maulana Fazal ur Rehman significant in Pakistan's politics | Fawad Chaudhry Reveals
"PTI ,JUIF, Jamat e Islami aur GDA Mil Jayein Tou..."Fawad Chaudhry's Shocking Statement
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Shahid Hashmi (Analyst)
- Kamran Akmal (Former Cricketer)
- Fawad Chaudhry (Politician)
Why Maulana Fazal ur Rehman significant in Pakistan's politics | Fawad Chaudhry Reveals
"PTI ,JUIF, Jamat e Islami aur GDA Mil Jayein Tou..."Fawad Chaudhry's Shocking Statement
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Arya Mehman, in the first part of the program we will talk about
00:13Bangladesh's historic defeat over the Pakistani team, and in the second part of the program
00:17we will talk about Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman's politics and who he is with, with the opposition
00:21or with the government.
00:23And in the end, we will talk about the difference between the desire and capacity of the government
00:29and how they will fulfill it.
00:31We will talk about this in the last semester of the program.
00:33But let's start.
00:34Today, Pakistan's test cricket team lost to Bangladesh on the day of the match.
00:38This is the worst defeat on our national land.
00:41The team of Bangladesh, which is going through such difficult circumstances,
00:44where they have political instability, they do not have clarity about their future political future.
00:49The players who are being harassed, they have cases against them.
00:52Despite this, they come to Pakistan and defeat you decisively.
00:57After losing the match, the same traditional things, all the blame is put on the pitch.
01:02The captain did the same today.
01:04Looking at the pitch as well and then also with the weather that had been around in Islamabad
01:10and Rawalpindi, we had been here for nine days and it had almost rained every day
01:14and we had a perfect match without any drop of rain after that first day.
01:18So a lot of things that came into factors.
01:21The situation is that the Pakistani team has especially longed for victory in their country.
01:26If we look at the last nine home test series matches, then the results are something like this.
01:32In 2021, Australia won the series of three matches and took it.
01:36After that, England won the series in 2022 from 3-0 and took it.
01:41Pakistan vs New Zealand, this series of two matches, this was a bit of a draw.
01:45Pakistan vs Bangladesh, which today is a series of two matches, Bangladesh has won 0-1.
01:52So whenever we saw that the Pakistani team is losing, especially in the country,
01:57it is said that it is a matter of pitches.
01:59This is not the case today.
02:00Even in today's match, our management raised questions about the pitches.
02:06Even in 2022, it was said about the pitch that the pitch was flat,
02:11so the Pakistani fielders did not help the bowlers.
02:14In the pitch of Kasur, it was said that it was the fault of PCB,
02:17because PCB was also putting Kasur on the pitch at that time.
02:21So we put the blame on the pitch again and again and go to the side.
02:25But we should pay tribute to Bangladesh's team in what situation they are playing cricket.
02:29Please take a look at this too.
02:30Now you see that the players are such that they have cases on them.
02:33Shakeebul Hassan has come here to play cricket, but the government is calling him from behind
02:37that they have to answer the cases on them.
02:41And it is a murder case, nothing short of that.
02:44It is a serious case.
02:45But these people are coming to Pakistan and performing.
02:47Apart from this, when Shakeebul Hassan went to Canada before,
02:50he was also arrested there.
02:51His voice was dragged.
02:52So the Bangladeshi players are playing under a lot of pressure in Pakistan.
02:56But they did not let this pressure get on them.
02:59Apart from this, the president of Bangladesh's cricket board resigned after 13 years.
03:02So there is a lot going on in the cricket board.
03:05So in all these circumstances, the team of Bangladesh defeated Pakistan on its land.
03:10Mr. Shahid Hashmi is present with us in the program.
03:12Senior sports enthusiast.
03:13Along with this, we will also join Kamal Nakmal.
03:15Thank you very much.
03:16After losing this, Mr. Shahid, we have always seen that the pitch is affected.
03:20If any home series loses, we say that there were problems with the pitch.
03:23So we don't have to curate the pitch ourselves.
03:26Don't we see the pitch and prepare it?
03:28Or don't we see the pitch and then select the team?
03:31This pitch has been a problem for the past 3-4 years.
03:33And that is why the Pakistan Cricket Board took a loan from Australia.
03:37Curator.
03:38This pitch did not even understand that.
03:40And there are many results.
03:41The captains, coaches and team management of the Pakistan cricket team had already deduced from the match.
03:47They thought that we will blow Bangladesh in 3 days.
03:50It is the fastest pitch.
03:51Pass bowler plays 4.
03:53We will out on that.
03:54Bangladesh thought it was easy.
03:57Bangladesh surprised them.
03:59They played good cricket.
04:00They read the pitch well.
04:02From the beginning, all their people were saying that this is a batting pitch.
04:05It will help the spinners on the last day.
04:08We did not give any spinner.
04:10We had already decided that the weather will be bad.
04:13It will rain.
04:14That's why we were giving 4-5 bowlers.
04:16There is no use of a spinner.
04:17And after all those mistakes, this was the result.
04:21When you assume everything from the beginning.
04:23Is it the sole responsibility of a person to read the pitch?
04:28Is it the captain's responsibility?
04:30Or is it the decision of the management?
04:32Who is responsible for reading the pitch, making the team and feeding it?
04:41Thank you very much Maria.
04:43First of all, congratulations to the Bangladesh team and the whole nation.
04:47They have won a big victory.
04:49We came to Pakistan and won the test match.
04:52We were the bottom team in the world championship.
04:55We have lost to every small team in white ball cricket.
04:59We were the bottom team in test cricket.
05:03We lost the test match.
05:05The reason for this is that it is a place of insult in the world.
05:10For us, for the whole of Pakistan, for the cricket of Pakistan.
05:13They came to our country and won.
05:15We have been talking about this for the last 2-3 years.
05:18They are trying to escape.
05:20Sometimes they put the excuse on the boys, sometimes on the pitch.
05:24Sometimes on the PC, sometimes on the captain.
05:27The team was announced here two days ago.
05:30Who did it?
05:31Pakistan did it.
05:32Didn't they have an idea about the pitch?
05:34Didn't they make the pitch of their own accord?
05:37The Bangladesh team came from abroad.
05:39They assessed good conditions.
05:42Played good cricket.
05:43Look at their game plan and playing alignment.
05:45Couldn't our spinners play?
05:48We have been saying for 3 days that spinners are not possible without a test match.
05:52You will be beaten.
05:54It is hot.
05:55There is no such pitch where you are playing on the turf.
05:59You will need spinners.
06:02Their spinners took 9 wickets in the test match.
06:05Our spinners took 1 wicket in the test match.
06:10Salman Ali Agha is a good bowler.
06:13How can you win a test match with anyone?
06:16We have been talking about Babbar for the last 4-5 years.
06:21He doesn't play well on the playing side.
06:23He doesn't play well on the playing level.
06:25His condition is not good.
06:27He doesn't have game awareness.
06:28We have been talking about him.
06:29Why not Shan?
06:30Shan is not a kid.
06:32Shan became a captain in domestic cricket.
06:35You can give some time to Jason Gillespie.
06:38You can give him some leverage.
06:40It is his first test match.
06:41It is his first assignment in Pakistan.
06:43He has never played cricket in Pakistan.
06:45The rest are from Pakistan.
06:47He is not a captain.
06:48He is not a senior player.
06:49He is not a selector.
06:50He is not a bowler.
06:51This is where the question arises.
06:53If we are not able to plan our pitches in our country.
06:58I would like to say something.
07:00Go ahead.
07:03I want to say that you have been getting beaten for the last 5-6 years.
07:07T20 small teams are coming to the wide world.
07:09I was listening to the marketing people in PCB yesterday.
07:13A big officer resigned and left because he was not getting sponsors.
07:17I had said on this channel, in this program.
07:20In my Lammapur Josh and Sports Room.
07:23Two years ago, I had said that if he plays like this,
07:26then you will not get any sponsors.
07:28No one will even look at cricket.
07:29You fix your Kibla.
07:31And you are resigning from the office.
07:34The team players are not being told anything.
07:36They are not getting any changes.
07:37Because of which sponsors are running away.
07:39Because of which people are not coming to watch.
07:41So Kamran, what you are saying.
07:42My next question is related to this.
07:45Because England's series is coming in October.
07:47If this is the case against Bangladesh.
07:49Then what will happen against England?
07:51And if the sponsors are talking.
07:52If this news is correct.
07:53The match between Pakistan and England.
07:56Is there any such threat in that regard?
08:00Absolutely.
08:01On June 6, when we came from America.
08:03Our T20 went to the lowest level.
08:06Then we got out of the World Cup.
08:08After that, on August 25, 2024.
08:10Our cricket has gone very low.
08:12We went to the 8th number in 9 teams of the World Test Championship.
08:16We went to take 12 points.
08:17On the contrary, our 6 points will be cut at a slow over rate.
08:20That is, we have got minus 6 from this test match.
08:23Our cricket is getting so bad.
08:25For this test match.
08:26All Murree Road is closed.
08:28Shahra-e-Kashmir is closed.
08:30So many roads are closed in Faizabad.
08:32People are starting to hate cricket now.
08:34All shops are closed on Murree Road.
08:365-6 days.
08:37People are worried that their business is going bad.
08:40Then this result comes.
08:41People will hate cricket.
08:43No broadcaster in England is ready for the match between Pakistan and England.
08:48And after today's defeat.
08:49It will feel like.
08:50Why should we show matches of that team?
08:52If you are losing from Bangladesh.
08:54Then you will not be able to stand against England.
08:56So we have to pick up our cricket big.
08:58Although.
08:59PCB has tried a lot.
09:00Australian coach.
09:01Australian curator.
09:02Australian high performance coach.
09:04But the team is the same.
09:06If we are losing from Bangladesh.
09:09Then we can't even stand against England.
09:12Unfortunately.
09:13What you are talking about.
09:14Hope from anywhere.
09:16Or courage.
09:17I couldn't see anything.
09:18Thank you both very much.
09:19We will go to the break.
09:20Mr. Fawad Chaudhary will be with me.
09:21The politics of the country is entering into a turmoil.
09:24Maulana Fazur Rehman.
09:25There is going to be a very interesting character.
09:27In the coming few weeks.
09:28We will talk about it.
09:29Stay with us after the break.
09:33Welcome back.
09:34Maulana Fazur Rehman.
09:35A very unique character in the politics of Pakistan.
09:37Because right now we are seeing.
09:38That not only Tariq-e-Insaf.
09:39And their allies.
09:40Are trying to talk to Maulana.
09:42In fact the government is also approaching them.
09:44The situation is.
09:45That Maulana is not ready to ally with Tariq-e-Insaf.
09:49And is not ready to go with the government.
09:51Right now in the country's politics.
09:53There is a kind of turmoil.
09:56In which neither the politics is moving forward.
09:58Nor is there any other solution.
10:01We will talk about this in the program.
10:03But first we will show.
10:04That Maulana Fazur Rehman.
10:05Had a lot of meetings with Tariq-e-Insaf.
10:07If we can show the scenes on the screen.
10:10And along with that.
10:11Zardari also tried to talk to him.
10:16But Maulana seems to be out of control right now.
10:20He is not ready to go with anyone right now.
10:25Apart from this.
10:26The government is also meeting with the other opposition.
10:28We will show you that.
10:29Ishaq Dar.
10:30Rana Sanaullah.
10:31Ehsan Iqbal.
10:32This is the government committee.
10:33They are also with them.
10:34They are ready to make various contacts right now.
10:36But the country's politics is stuck right now.
10:39How will we move this forward?
10:40We will talk about this in the program.
10:42Fawad Chaudhary is with us.
10:43Along with that Tariq-e-Insaf wants to hold a meeting.
10:46Then it is cancelled.
10:47The government says with so much commotion.
10:49That come and see.
10:50We will break your legs.
10:51But it also requests.
10:52That you postpone the convention.
10:54We will talk to Fawad about this.
10:56Assalam-o-Alaikum Fawad.
10:57Thank you very much for joining us.
10:59Maulana is not sitting with Tariq-e-Insaf.
11:02Nor has he held any special hands with Zardari.
11:05Is it really necessary for Maulana's consent?
11:08Or is it okay?
11:09He has a political reality.
11:11But there is no impact.
11:12Look Maria.
11:13The thing is.
11:14The events that are going to happen in the next two weeks.
11:17Pay attention to that too.
11:19The most important event is coming.
11:21To stop Mansoor Ali Shah.
11:24Is there a constitutional amendment or not?
11:27If there is a constitutional amendment.
11:29Then there are eight MNs in the JUI National Assembly.
11:34And four are probably in the Senate.
11:36So this will be very crucial.
11:38And what I found out last night.
11:43After the meeting.
11:44In the JUI.
11:46And what happened.
11:47I found out that.
11:49Maulana did not make this commitment to Zardari.
11:52That he will vote.
11:54He said that we have come a long way from each other.
11:56And it is not possible for me to do this now.
12:00In fact, Zardari has now called him to dinner.
12:02He has not yet agreed to that either.
12:04So this will be a very crucial decision.
12:07The Kamran Murtaza.
12:09Who looks after his law.
12:12And he is from the Azam Nazir Tariq group.
12:16But when the PTI people went to meet him.
12:20He told them that there is no question.
12:22That we vote for an extension.
12:25So if the JUI does not go.
12:28I still have some doubts that the JUI will not go.
12:32Then it will be very difficult for the government to bring a constitutional amendment.
12:35But it is still very difficult for the JUI.
12:37Because they do not have that two-thirds majority.
12:40Still, if the government takes a leap.
12:42Then four votes will be left.
12:43And you know that they have arrested Haji Imtiaz.
12:47They have just released Lali.
12:50With great difficulty.
12:51So for four people, they will do everything.
12:54How will they do it?
12:55It is the decision of the Supreme Court.
12:56They will lose their sovereignty.
12:58The vote will not count.
12:59Everything will happen.
13:00No, they are free.
13:01The 41 people who are free, they want to put pressure on them.
13:04And the Election Commission has not yet declared them a party.
13:07They will put pressure on him.
13:09But after that, he is not a member of the KP in the Senate.
13:12So the Senate is not complete.
13:14I think the biggest hurdle for the government is that the KP has not been elected.
13:19And the Senate is not complete.
13:21But I do not understand why the government is overreacting so much.
13:25With Mansoor Ali Shah.
13:27Those who know Mr. Shah.
13:29They know that they will remain balanced.
13:31Yes, they will not become a fifth party.
13:33But it is not that the government will start on Jihad.
13:37If you talk at this time, people who know the Supreme Court.
13:41They will tell you that only two judges out of 17 have remained with Mr. Faiz Ishaq.
13:46The remaining 15 judges have told Mr. Shah that they will go with the constitution.
13:52And the seniority principle that has to be adhered to.
13:56Which is now written in Article 175.
13:58So that is why Mr. Fazlur Rehman is of great importance.
14:02The second importance of Mr. Fazlur Rehman is that he can give a cover to the state.
14:10The PTI has people who are fighting.
14:14Although they have been fighting for two years.
14:17But they do not have militants.
14:19Or they do not have that power.
14:21So it is of great importance.
14:23So if Mr. Fazlur Rehman and PTI.
14:26And the Islamic Community.
14:28GDA.
14:29See this.
14:30They will do a press conference tomorrow.
14:32And say that we are having a meeting on D-Chowk.
14:35The government has come.
14:36They are stopping it.
14:37The government will have to spy on it.
14:38They can send the government home.
14:40The day these four.
14:41Okay.
14:42One point I want to tell you is that.
14:44This PTI needs this alliance.
14:48But these communities also need this alliance.
14:50If the Islamic Community came and protested.
14:53They had to face a lot of humiliation when they came alone.
14:56If PTI and JUI were with the Islamic Community.
15:00Then you see how different the scene would have been.
15:03So if those parties also want to do their independent politics.
15:06So this is the biggest failure of the opposition.
15:09That they could not make this alliance.
15:11But how did the alliance become with Mr. Fazlur Rehman.
15:13Tariq-e-Insaf has a lot of intellectuals.
15:15More than Shahbaz Sharif and Asif Zardari.
15:17A lot of intellectuals.
15:18So what did they do to the political situation in Punjab?
15:20No.
15:21They never lost.
15:22They had the government overthrown.
15:23They had the government overthrown.
15:24The political situation.
15:25They did it after taking the post of government.
15:27So Tariq-e-Insaf.
15:28If she talks to the JUI.
15:29If she sits.
15:30So there is no ideological division under the voters.
15:32No.
15:33You do not have to go to the voters.
15:34You will only go to remove the government.
15:35But the JUI has a very clear line.
15:37That our politics.
15:38But look.
15:39On four big issues.
15:40Maulana Fazlur Rehman's.
15:41And PTI's position is one.
15:43There is one position on Afghanistan.
15:45With the operation.
15:47In KP.
15:48The position is one.
15:49On the 2018 election rigging.
15:51The position is one.
15:52The establishment should have a limited role.
15:54There is a need to limit the role.
15:56The position is one.
15:57So on these four big positions.
15:59There is one.
16:00And this is a national position.
16:02There is no harm in taking this.
16:04Mr. Shahbaz Sharif and Mr. Zardari went down.
16:06When they got involved in their cases.
16:08And they decided.
16:09That there is no morality.
16:10There is nothing.
16:11We just have to end the cases of our family.
16:13And we have to govern.
16:14They did not do that with their politics.
16:16So you know.
16:17When you do politics on a national narrative.
16:19Then you will get a different response.
16:21If you do it for the benefit of yourself.
16:24Then Mokkaf.
16:25He was in our show.
16:26Mr. Hafiz Abdullah.
16:27I asked him.
16:28Why did you talk to the JUI?
16:29He said.
16:30There is so much confusion.
16:31The confusion of leadership.
16:32That is there.
16:33There is so much confusion.
16:34We do not know.
16:35Who are we talking to?
16:36How much authority does he have?
16:37Will this thing move forward or not?
16:39The biggest objection of the JUIF is this.
16:41The confusion of the leadership of PTI.
16:43But.
16:44Mr. Khan is not deriving the policy.
16:45I mean.
16:46If another leader comes forward.
16:47If he talks.
16:48But Mr. Khan takes the decision.
16:49What is the confusion in this?
16:50No.
16:51There is a lot of confusion in this.
16:52But actually.
16:53Look.
16:54Maulana Fazlur Rehman.
16:55Is not running any NGO.
16:56To see is.
16:57For example.
16:58Up till now.
16:59The chairman of the Public Accounts Committee.
17:02Has not been able to make his own PTI.
17:04And.
17:05I had spoken at a senior level.
17:06I said.
17:07What are you doing by keeping it?
17:08You tell Maulana.
17:09Except Noor Alam.
17:10Whoever wants to make it.
17:11Make it.
17:12He did not do it.
17:13Then.
17:14See.
17:15The people in the provincial government.
17:16They have to bring them in a comfort zone.
17:17Like you just said.
17:18That there is so much confusion between them.
17:19They had to bring them in a comfort zone.
17:20The problem in PTI has been that.
17:21Thanks to the establishment policy.
17:22The cadre of PTI is over.
17:23Now.
17:24Only Imran Khan is there.
17:25And.
17:26And.
17:27And.
17:28And.
17:29And.
17:30And.
17:31As for.
17:32As far as PTI is concerned.
17:33Effecively.
17:34Parliamentary form.
17:35Instead of that.
17:36Presidential form.
17:37Government gone in.
17:38So.
17:39There is a problem there.
17:46Shah Mahmud Qureshi is being released.
17:48No one understands, why he is in there.
17:50Similarly.
17:51The political people.
17:52STRet.
17:53Ladies and gentlemen.
17:54Sahib and everything.
17:55These people they are being dismissed.
17:57There is a struggle in PTI.
18:00There is a serious problem in Pakistan.
18:02Apart from Asad Qaisar, there is no one else who has the political capacity.
18:09The problem is that when there is an opposition in Pakistan,
18:12they do politics in some way or the other.
18:14They do politics, they do Jalsa.
18:16In Pakistan, the situation of justice is such that
18:20they have announced their Jalsa six times and have called it off.
18:25And when they announce Jalsa, they always say that
18:28they will definitely come this time and break the rules of jail.
18:30And if anyone can stop us after Islam, then stop us.
18:32But after that, we saw that they also call off the Jalsa.
18:35PMLN is very proud that they will not let anyone enter the city.
18:40First, we show Tariq Insaaf how his tone has changed.
18:55There will be a Jalsa tomorrow.
18:56Our flag will be there.
18:58If anyone can stop us, then stop us.
19:00Tomorrow, everyone has to reach Tannor Chowk by 4 o'clock.
19:03We will do the Jalsa at Dangay Chowk.
19:06Tomorrow, there will be a very big Jalsa in Islamabad.
19:08If there is any violation, it will not be considered a theft.
19:12We will definitely do the Jalsa.
19:13Tomorrow, 22nd August, Tannor, Islamabad Jalsa,
19:16Pakistan-Pakistan Jalsa.
19:17Our allied parties are being met.
19:20You can participate in abundance.
19:22This is not going to happen.
19:23Tomorrow, there will be a Jalsa.
19:24This is not allowed.
19:25Ali Ameen will also come.
19:26The whole of Punjab will also come.
19:27Today, we will do our Jalsa.
19:31On the other hand, the government says that they will not let anyone enter Islamabad.
19:35But one day before, they request to postpone the Jalsa.
19:39This is what the government's representatives have said.
19:42Listen to this.
19:43You have 9th May in front of you.
19:45You tell me what happened on 9th May.
19:47In front of you, they have been burning your martyrs.
19:51They have set the planes on fire.
19:53These are the people who are trying to stop it.
19:55This Jalsa is not purely for them.
19:57Their aim is to create chaos.
20:01So that the law and order situation is created.
20:04Apart from this, they have no other purpose.
20:07This community cannot remain peaceful.
20:09If the government has written anything about peaceful protest,
20:13then it will have to see whether they can remain peaceful or not.
20:17There is nothing extraordinary about this.
20:19There is a government in KPK.
20:21Its Prime Minister was informed about this.
20:25He saw that these reports are being substantiated.
20:29They are also getting their authenticity.
20:32The PTI is not able to hold the Jalsa.
20:35The government is trying to stop it.
20:37But they are not able to stop it.
20:39The last Jalsa was different.
20:43I think this is a ray of hope for Pakistan.
20:48The way the establishment has contacted Mr. Khan directly.
20:52The way Mr. Khan has obliged.
20:54I think there are only two ways.
20:56Either Pakistan becomes Bangladesh and people come out.
21:00We will not do that.
21:02Pakistan is not Bangladesh.
21:04There is another problem.
21:06The linguistic differences in Pakistan,
21:10the religious and ethnic differences are so big
21:14that we cannot afford it.
21:16I know that it is unfortunate
21:18that there is a group in the government and the establishment
21:20who are repeatedly saying that
21:22people can do whatever they want.
21:24I think this is a very irrational approach.
21:28What will you do if they come out?
21:30I think this is the first step.
21:32For the first time,
21:34a sanity has prevailed.
21:36Even after that,
21:38Imran Khan's doctor left.
21:40Confidence building measures have been taken.
21:42Some people are returning home.
21:44Let's see if Bushra Bibi is bailed out.
21:46These are the steps in the right direction.
21:50I think engagement is the only way forward.
21:52If there is engagement in the government,
21:54establishment and PTI,
21:56then this is good news for Pakistan.
22:00This Jalsa has been cancelled.
22:02It is okay.
22:04There are people's emotions.
22:06But the ultimate you have to achieve
22:08is political success.
22:10PTI has got political success.
22:12People are coming out again and again.
22:14There is no question.
22:18There were maximalist positions.
22:20Then they came down.
22:22Even Mr. Khan said that
22:24he did not want to talk.
22:26Ultimately,
22:28extremists cannot win.
22:30Moderates win.
22:32In my opinion,
22:34the next two weeks,
22:36we have to see to what extent
22:38the government goes to stop Mansoor Ali Shah.
22:40Secondly,
22:42we have to see
22:44if Bushra Bibi's bailout
22:46is a major relief for Imran Khan.
22:48He is expecting a fair trial.
22:50There is a high probability of it.
22:52This bailout will be issued
22:54because there is no other case.
22:56These two incidents
22:58in the next two weeks
23:00will determine the politics
23:02of the next three months.
23:04PM LN should be worried?
23:06PM LN and PPP
23:08should be in this bigger plan?
23:10Why not?
23:12If we want to bring
23:14stability in Pakistan,
23:16then there will be a grand
23:18political dialogue.
23:20PM Khan has repeatedly said
23:22that he will not talk.
23:24What is the real worry
23:26of Pippa's party and Noon?
23:28They say that
23:30we did not do it.
23:32The establishment did it.
23:34We have nothing to do with it.
23:36PTI will have to give
23:38this space to Pippa's party.
23:40Pippa's party and Noon
23:42should be reassured
23:44that this will not happen.
23:46Let's build Pakistan together.
23:48This is the only way forward.
23:50There is nothing else.
23:52They can kill as many people
23:54as they want.
23:56This is a dangerous approach.
23:58Thank you, Fawad Chaudhary.
24:00We will have court reporters
24:02with us.
24:04We will ask them
24:06about the possibility
24:08of backtracking.
24:10Stay with us after the break.
24:14Welcome back.
24:16There has been a judicial
24:18package in power for the past
24:20few weeks.
24:22The government has been
24:24trying to implement
24:26the number game.
24:28It seems that
24:30they do not have the number game.
24:32The government has been
24:34asked if they have
24:36brought a package.
24:38A joint session
24:40was called on 26-28-28.
24:42What did they have to say?
24:44What is going on?
24:46I don't think
24:48there is a reality to it.
24:50It is not on the agenda
24:52or in the order of the day.
24:54You talked about a joint session.
24:56But to increase the age of
24:58judges in a house
25:00is not going to happen.
25:02It is not on the agenda
25:04but it is not on the agenda
25:06right now.
25:08We have a lot of bills.
25:10It is not a big bill.
25:12If it comes up,
25:14we will tell you.
25:16Mr. Tadar has a lot of surprises.
25:18He will tell you at the last minute.
25:20We will tell you when it comes up.
25:24We will talk about the program.
25:26We have with us Mr. Miya Aqeel Afzal.
25:28He is the President of the
25:30Press Association of the Supreme Court.
25:32He keeps an eye on the Supreme Court
25:34matters internally
25:36as well as externally.
25:38Thank you very much.
25:40Mr. Aqeel, let's start with you.
25:42Is this a legal amendment
25:44that the government is bringing?
25:46Of course, it is a political statement.
25:48Is there any preparation?
25:50What is going on in the background?
25:52After the decision of the Supreme Court
25:54on 12th July,
25:56the government has reached
25:58the point of no return.
26:00On the other hand,
26:02there are only two ways
26:04for the government.
26:06First, the government should bring
26:08Chief Justice Qazi Faiz Ishaq
26:10for an extension.
26:12Second, one of the three senior
26:14mosques judges should be made
26:16Chief Justice.
26:18The Supreme Court of Pakistan
26:20has clearly stated that
26:22the senior mosque judge
26:24should be made Chief Justice.
26:26For that, a proper amendment
26:28has to be brought.
26:30But the problem is that
26:32if the government brings
26:34any of the two amendments,
26:36it will be challenged
26:38by the Supreme Court of Pakistan
26:40under Article 184.3.
26:42The applications will go to
26:44the Supreme Court of Pakistan
26:46and the full court will sit.
26:48If the full court sits,
26:50the situation after 12th July
26:52will be challenged by the Supreme Court
26:54of Pakistan.
26:56Out of the eight judges,
26:58five were said to be
27:00in favour of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf.
27:02But the addition of three judges
27:04is very meaningful.
27:06We can say that
27:08the situation of extension
27:10was being created
27:12on the basis of
27:14the addition of three judges.
27:16Out of the eight judges,
27:18five were judged.
27:20It is very difficult
27:22to see all these scenarios.
27:24Even if the government
27:26makes a constitutional amendment,
27:28it is very difficult
27:30to sustain it
27:32in the field.
27:34I don't think it will be sustainable
27:36in today's situation.
27:38Interesting.
27:40In the verdict,
27:42the Supreme Court of Pakistan
27:44has given a mind
27:46against the judicial package.
27:48There were two important issues
27:50to be addressed.
27:52One was that the tenure of judges
27:54should be increased.
27:56The other is that the Chief Justice
27:58should be appointed
28:00in the top four or five.
28:02Has there been any
28:04homework or
28:06is it just a guesstimate?
28:08What will be the reaction?
28:12When the government came
28:14in March,
28:16after which a committee was formed in the name of judicial reforms.
28:20The second time when this issue came to the Supreme Court,
28:24on the 3rd of May, there was a meeting in the Supreme Court
28:27regarding the rules of the Judicial Commission,
28:30where the Chief Justice and all the Chief Justices of the High Courts were present,
28:33as well as the senior judges.
28:34There, the Minister of Law, Azam Zaitar,
28:36although he had done a lot of work on the rules
28:39regarding the appointment of judges in the High Court,
28:42as soon as the meeting started,
28:45he said that we are bringing a package of judicial reforms,
28:49so there is no need for this effort.
28:51So the judges closed the files,
28:53and a judge from the Supreme Court was present there.
28:56He said, okay, we will not talk about this anymore,
28:58because if you do this tomorrow,
29:00then we may have to see this.
29:02So definitely, if the government does this,
29:05then it will go up,
29:07and then it will be seen that
29:09there may be an effort to cut the wings of the judiciary.
29:12Because, you see, the retirement age has to be increased,
29:14the appointment of Chief Justice,
29:16among the first 3 or 5 judges of the High Court,
29:18all three have political motives behind it.
29:20Some say that the pendency has to be reduced,
29:23some say that the cases are pending in the lower judiciary,
29:26the cases of the common people, no,
29:28none of the three have any such motive.
29:30The government also says that the retirement age has to be increased,
29:33so there are a lot of things in that,
29:35but ultimately, there is a political motive behind it,
29:38that the extension of Chief Justice,
29:40and all the other things,
29:42then the appointment of Chief Justice,
29:44it is very clear to you,
29:46Asif has said that in October-November,
29:48Justice Mansoor Aliya will come,
29:50who is scaring him, or he is scaring someone.
29:52Look, one thing is very clear,
29:54Justice Mansoor Ali Shah,
29:56or the other judges,
29:58these judges are very independent judges,
30:00and in the past, they have been praised a lot,
30:02the people of Muslim League Noon,
30:04so it is very surprising that such a thing is being said about them.
30:06When they will come in October,
30:08Justice Mansoor Ali Shah,
30:10they will have their independence,
30:12I don't think they will go to the pro or anti,
30:14according to the law and order,
30:16we will not be able to see that.
30:18So what you are saying,
30:20where are all the bars,
30:22and the Supreme Court's associations,
30:24and the various high court's associations,
30:26because there is always a politics of bars,
30:28and various other associations,
30:30we will not be able to see that,
30:32they are silent,
30:34if we talk about the bar associations,
30:36there are two big bar associations,
30:38Supreme Court and Pakistan Bar Council.
30:40You can say that fortunately or unfortunately,
30:42Azam Azeer Tarar Sahib,
30:44he is a loyal minister of law,
30:46so he has a very deep influence on that,
30:48so that is why the bar associations
30:50are silent right now,
30:52they are not getting any kind of resistance.
30:54But what Saqib Bashir Sahib was talking about,
30:56the Chief Justice of Pakistan's extension,
30:58if we talk about just one Chief Justice's extension,
31:00if an amendment is brought for them,
31:02then that is absolutely unacceptable,
31:04that will be a person specific legislation,
31:06Supreme Court or any court,
31:08in which there will be a challenge,
31:10that will be removed in a snap.
31:12If a whole judicial package is brought,
31:14in which the judges of the Supreme Court are increased,
31:16the Chief Justice of the High Court,
31:18and the judges are increased,
31:20then we will have to see,
31:22how the judges look at that.
31:24But I will say the same thing again,
31:26that the decision of the Supreme Court on 12th July,
31:28the decision of the Supreme Court on 12th July,
31:30the decision of the Supreme Court on 12th July,
31:32I do not join it with Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf,
31:34I join it more with the extension.
31:36And then the close sources of the Chief Justice,
31:38Qazi Faiz Issa Sahib,
31:40who have met him in some way,
31:42the people of his office,
31:44whatever they call them,
31:46we have heard that
31:48the Chief Justice, Qazi Faiz Issa Sahib,
31:50and the judges of the Supreme Court,
31:52have said very clearly in this regard,
31:54that I am not interested in the extension.
31:56But it will not be easy,
31:58for example,
32:00the door of these judges can be closed forever,
32:02if you give a formal stance on this matter.
32:04The press release can be done,
32:06the Chahmaguys can be terminated forever.
32:08It is possible,
32:10it is possible,
32:12but the thing is that
32:14these news have been circulated in our national media,
32:16that the Chief Justice has refused.
32:18When the decision of the Supreme Court on 12th July came,
32:20after that he held a press conference,
32:22but the question arises,
32:24why did you remain silent for so long?
32:26What is the confusion in this?
32:28If that silence is broken,
32:30and it is said that this is not a possibility,
32:32the debate will die down.
32:34No, no, that is absolutely right.
32:36The way I was talking to the Chief Justice,
32:38from his side as well,
32:40he has tried to convince his fellow judges,
32:42that I am not interested
32:44in the extension at all.
32:46Secondly,
32:48regarding the overall package,
32:50sorry, I am saying package,
32:52regarding the overall judges,
32:54if we go to the panel of most judges,
32:56and select one from them,
32:58then I think after 2014,
33:00since the movement of Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhary,
33:02after the retirement of Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhary,
33:04the independence of the court
33:06is seen first of all.
33:08Whatever legislation is being done,
33:10will it affect the freedom of the court
33:12or not?
33:14If the court will be afraid
33:16that out of five,
33:18four or three will be released
33:20and we will be left,
33:22then this will also come
33:24directly on the independence of the judiciary.
33:26You are saying an interesting thing.
33:28When the practice and procedure bill was coming,
33:30we heard all the explanations
33:32that the bill is right,
33:34the method is wrong,
33:36the intention is wrong.
33:38Even now in the bill,
33:40there is no harm in it,
33:42just the timing is wrong,
33:44the intention is wrong.
33:46Then we saw the practice and procedure bill,
33:48it was beneficial.
33:50Is it about politics
33:52or is it about the intent
33:54or the intentions?
33:56No, it is about politics.
33:58How can a political government
34:00take a decision
34:02of its own
34:04or if six judges
34:06write a letter,
34:08if the government is being accused,
34:10then the government should not do anything against them.
34:12The rotation of judges in the High Court
34:14is directly related to the judges
34:16of Islamabad High Court.
34:18But technically,
34:20there is no problem in it.
34:22If we look at it from a political point of view,
34:24then technically,
34:26there is no problem.
34:28The issue is about timing.
34:30The government has said that
34:32whatever the six judges said,
34:34nothing of that sort happened.
34:36It does not exist.
34:38And after that,
34:40such legislation comes
34:42and it has to be targeted.
34:44It is a matter of timing.
34:46It is a matter of timing.
34:48It is a matter of timing.
34:50It is a matter of timing.
34:52It is a matter of timing.
34:54It is a matter of timing.
34:56It is a matter of timing.
34:58It is a matter of timing.
35:00It is a matter of timing.
35:02It is a matter of timing.
35:04It is a matter of timing.
35:06It is a matter of timing.
35:08It is a matter of timing.
35:10It is a matter of timing.
35:12It is a matter of timing.
35:14It is a matter of timing.
35:16It is a matter of timing.
35:18It is a matter of timing.