Calls for UN Security Council reforms: Malawi's president talks to DW about why the AU must get a permanent seat
In an exclusive interview with DW, Malawi's President Lazarus Chakwera explicitly endorses Africa's bid for a permanent seat at the UN Security Council. Chakwera, who was visiting Germany, defended his economic record and discussed the Southern African Development Community's mission in the DRC and the upcoming 2025 presidential elections.
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00:00Now, let's go back to the SADC summit. It just ended recently in Harare, Zimbabwe, but
00:08Zambia's President Hakainde Hichilema boycotted. What is the cause of these cracks within the
00:14bloc?
00:15You probably have information about a boycott. I don't.
00:22Why was he not there?
00:25I have been a member of SADC for the last four years. In fact, I chaired SADC at one
00:31point. Every time I have been to SADC meetings, there will always be one or two for various
00:37reasons in their own country who may not turn up. We don't call that boycotting. And so
00:45for me to hear that, shall I use his, you know, HH, to hear my brother boycott it, that
00:54would not be-
00:55Can you give a reason perhaps that we might hear that from you?
00:59Whenever they say for other exegesis of, you know, their work in their country, then they
01:11would not come. But the foreign minister was there full time, and he is the one who represented
01:17them. And he was there chairing the Troika virtually.
01:23I'm also from Southern Africa, and I would assume that a SADC summit would be something
01:28very important for the bloc.
01:30It is extremely important. But like I told you, I have been to summit of SADC. We have
01:39had meetings, even extraordinary ones. Not everyone turns up necessarily. What I'm saying,
01:47disputing with you, even though you come from Southern Africa, is to say, using a word boycott
01:53this is the first I've heard of, because he did not boycott.
01:58And very important questions, especially the fact that now Africa is pushing for permanent
02:02seats at the UN Security Council.
02:05Absolutely.
02:06What is the AU doing to push for a permanent seat, and how soon are we going to see that
02:09become a reality?
02:11It depends on some people that need to agree with what we are doing. When the UN was established,
02:22none, maybe a few, but really we were not part of that agreement and that arrangement,
02:30and we've been pushing for a reconsideration so that Africa now become bona fide participants
02:42around the table, particularly in the Security Council.
02:46And so, again, every time I've been able to have a chance to speak up, I've raised
02:51those questions. But I understand how some of these things are. It's not necessarily
02:58because we are pushed. It's somebody who needs to agree to the changing of the rules.
03:08And the way this thing was really formatted at the beginning is not good for a rule-based,
03:19multilateral agreement like we push for in this day and age.
03:24Now, Sadak's troops in the DRC, who are assisting the Congolese government in fighting rebels
03:31in the volatile East, should you leaders not be more focused on stopping the proliferation
03:38of Western-manufactured weapons fueling conflicts in the continent instead of sending troops?
03:44I don't believe that it is an either-or. You know that peace is a prerequisite for
03:52development. And when something has already been happening, and then to say, let's just
04:06say silence the guns, which we did state a couple years ago. The guns have not been silenced.
04:14Look at the root cause. It's not necessarily the gun that somebody has given to somebody
04:20else. If you look at the root cause, and I'm happy that now people are beginning to
04:28understand these things, and that's why we support efforts that say, take responsibility.
04:36Let's not put women and children, or treat them the manner we are treating them, because
04:43they are the majority of people that are affected by such wars. Whether it is proxy
04:51wars or whether it is wars to do with who has power over this resource or that resource,
05:01we have decided, and it is a community decision, like we did in Mozambique, like we did and
05:11are doing in Eastern DRC. It's a decision that says, not necessarily fight, but make
05:21sure that we protect those communities. It is a sad commentary that in Africa, sometimes
05:34even what's happening in Sudan, these matters are not discussed or taken to a level where
05:41they become just as prominent as other conflicts across the world. Africa should not necessarily
05:49be fighting itself because others are more interested in making sure that we keep fighting
05:56while Africa is being looted. No. So the ability to be able to sit around the table, like the
06:04president of Angola, our outgoing chair of SADC, was able to bring brothers together
06:11and say, let's have a way forward. These are the efforts we must support. These are the
06:16efforts that will silence the guns, not necessarily who sold you this gun.