• 2 months ago
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken sits down with WIRED Contributing Editor Garrett M. Graff to talk about emerging technology, cybersecurity, and how the State Department is evolving to meet a new set of challenges.

Director: Lisandro Perez-Rey
Director of Photography: Charlie Jordan
Editor: Louis Lalire
Host: Garrett Graff
Guest: Antony Blinken
Line Producer: Joseph Buscemi
Associate Producer: Brandon White
Production Manager: Peter Brunette
Production Coordinator: Rhyan Lark
Camera Operator: Ben Finkel
Sound Mixer: Elijah Sutton
Post Production Supervisor: Christian Olguin
Post Production Coordinator: Ian Bryant
Supervising Editor: Doug Larsen
Assistant Editor: Justin Symonds

Category

🤖
Tech
Transcript
00:00They're engaged, for example, right now in an extensive expansion of their nuclear program,
00:04the highest end chips. We want to make sure that China is not able to acquire those and then feed
00:09them directly into its military program. Wired sat down with U.S. Secretary of State
00:14Antony Blinken to talk about emerging technology and cybersecurity. This is The Big Interview.
00:25Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for sitting with us today. Great to be with you. I want to ask
00:29you a little bit about the way that you have prioritized cybersecurity at the department here.
00:34Last July, of course, the State Department was the one that actually discovered the Chinese
00:40intrusion of Microsoft systems, which for those of us who cover cybersecurity, was shocking that
00:46the State Department would be the originator of discovering an event like that. It was a
00:51little surprising for me too, both a pleasant surprise because I was very proud of the fact
00:56that we have remarkable people in place who are able to do that. But of course,
01:01when you have any kind of cyber intrusion, it's a deep concern and it's an ongoing concern for
01:06the government. It's exactly why we tried to make this department, among other things,
01:10fit for purpose when it comes to cybersecurity. One of the things that you have done is create
01:15this new Cybersecurity Bureau with Ambassador Nate Fick. I wonder if you could talk a little
01:19bit about the effort to build not digital sovereignty, but digital solidarity.
01:26Look, what I've seen since coming back to the State Department three and a half years ago
01:32is that everything happening in the technological world and in cyberspace
01:39is increasingly central to our foreign policy. It's central because we see extraordinary
01:43possibility in actually making a difference on critical issues that matter to people around
01:47the world and matter to our own people, whether it's health, whether it's education, whether it's
01:51climate. We also see the vulnerabilities and the dangers. We know that what's happening at home
01:56and what's happening around the world are increasingly connected. So we wanted to make
02:00sure that we're taking account of that in the way we set ourselves up, the way we attract talent,
02:05and the way we conduct our diplomacy. There's almost a perfect storm,
02:09several major developments that have really brought this to the forefront of what we're
02:13doing and what we need to do. First, we have a new generation of foundational technologies that
02:19are literally changing the world all at the same time. So whether it's AI, whether it's quantum,
02:24whether it's microelectronics, biotech, telecoms, they're having a profound impact and increasingly
02:30their conversion and feeding off of each other. Second, we're seeing that the line between the
02:36digital and physical worlds is evaporating, erasing. We have cars, we have ports, we have
02:42hospitals that are huge and affect data centers with so much information being generated or coming
02:48in, big vulnerabilities. And at the same time, we have increasingly rare materials that are critical
02:56to be able to advance technology and fragile supply chains. In each of these areas,
03:00the State Department is taking action. And then finally, we have to look at everything in terms
03:04of stacks, the hardware, the software, the talent, and the norms, the rules, the standards by which
03:11this technology are used. All of this is coming together. And the bottom line is our country has
03:16to be at the height of competitiveness if we're going to make sure that we're covering all of
03:21these areas and making sure that we're maximizing the good and minimizing the bad. This administration
03:27has made extraordinary investments, as you know, in our technology, the Chips and Science Act,
03:31the so-called Inflation Reduction Act, which is the biggest investment in climate technology
03:35in history. And between the public and the private, we've generated three and a half
03:40trillion dollars of investment. It's an incredibly powerful thing because countries see the investments
03:46we've made in ourselves, in our own competitiveness, and they want to work with us. So I want to make
03:51sure that we have the diplomats who are trained and able not only to engage, but to lead all of
03:59these conversations around the world. We've now trained more than 200 cybersecurity and digital
04:05officers, people who are genuinely expert. And that means every one of our embassies around the
04:10world will have at least one person who is truly fluent in tech and in digital policy. My goal
04:17is to make sure that across the entire department, we have basic literacy,
04:22ideally fluency, and even eventually mastery.
04:26Your tenure here at Foggy Bottom has coincided with what feels like the fracturing of the dream
04:31of the global internet. And we've begun to see the splintering into a European regulatory web,
04:38authoritarian regimes using the internet as a surveillance tool overseas. Of course, we've seen
04:44this played out in US policy on Huawei and TikTok. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about
04:49your view of the future of the internet. Ideally, we don't have that fracture. And
04:54certainly that would be the preference. And we've done a number of things, actually,
04:57to try to move in another direction, to try to build broad consensus on the way technology is
05:02used. Because these rules, these norms, these standards, that's absolutely critical. And
05:08the conversations about this often happen in windowless rooms, maybe at the UN, maybe halfway
05:13around the world. Not only are we at the table, we want to be at the head of the table. Let me
05:17give you an example. On AI, we had incredible work done by the White House to develop basic
05:24principles with the foundational companies that were engaged in this, the voluntary commitments
05:29they made. State Department went out and has worked to basically internationalize those
05:35commitments, those principles. We have a G7 code of conduct, the leading democratic economies
05:41of the world, all agreeing to basic principles with a focus on safety. We managed to get the
05:46very first resolution ever on artificial intelligence through the United Nations
05:51General Assembly, 192 countries also signing up to basic principles on safety and a focus of using
05:58AI to advance sustainable development goals. These are the goals that the entire world is set to try
06:03to move the world forward on things like health, education, climate. And we also have more than
06:0850 countries that have signed on to basic principles on the responsible military use of AI.
06:15So the goal here is not to have a world that is bifurcated in any way, it's to try to bring
06:21everyone together. Having said that, you're right. There are areas where, of course, we're in intense
06:26competition with other countries. And if we can't come together on rules that make sure that we're
06:32elevating the good and minimizing the bad, well, we have to make sure we're protecting our values
06:37and protecting our interests. For example, when it comes to the highest end technology,
06:42say the highest end chips that we have, we want to make sure that a country like China
06:47is not able to acquire those and then feed them directly into its military program. They're
06:53engaged, for example, right now in an extensive expansion of their nuclear program, very opaque.
06:58It's not in our interest to have the highest end technology we have go right into that. Also,
07:04technology is unfortunately used to repress people, surveillance, repress their human rights.
07:09We want to make sure our technology is not used for that. But as we've said, we want to make sure
07:13that as we're protecting, as opposed to promoting technology, we're doing it in a way that has a
07:20smallest possible yard along with the highest possible fence. Because broadly speaking,
07:26we want technology to get out there. We see it profoundly as a source for good, for progress.
07:31We want to make sure it's shared widely and broadly. And this is this notion of solidarity.
07:36We want to be collaborating, cooperating, working with other countries, building capacity,
07:40sharing knowledge, helping everyone solve these common problems. But for discrete parts of the
07:46ecosystem, we have to make sure we're protecting. We have to have supply chains that are not only
07:52resilient, but are diversified. So we're not dependent on any one place for any critical
07:57input. We went through COVID. We saw where that can lead. We don't want to see the same thing
08:02on critical technology. So the goal, the hope is to develop the broadest possible consensus. But
08:08in certain areas, if we have to, yes, we're going to make sure that we're well protected.
08:14Let me ask you also about Russia and ransomware. Another issue that has defined your tenure in the
08:19Biden administration's national security agenda over the last couple of years. Is there more
08:24that the United States and the Western alliance could be doing to push Russia to be a better
08:31actor online? Or do you see this as an intractable problem going forward?
08:35Look, it's an ongoing challenge. And the invasion of Ukraine happened. It's obviously made the
08:40entire relationship much more difficult than it already was. And so I think, unfortunately,
08:46there are probably limits as to what we can achieve. Having said that, we're also working
08:51increasingly collaboratively, not only with the private sector, but also with other countries to
08:56develop common strategies, to develop common approaches, to build solidarity there. Because
09:02so many companies, so many countries are afflicted with this scourge of ransomware. We're sharing
09:06information. We're sharing best practices. And we're looking at what kind of collective action
09:11can be taken to deter and disincentivize those who might be engaged in ransomware,
09:17or those who are supporting it. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for
09:20sitting with WIRED for the Big Interview. Great to be with you, Gary. Thank you.

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