U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken sits down with WIRED Contributing Editor Garrett M. Graff to talk about emerging technology, cybersecurity, and how the State Department is evolving to meet a new set of challenges.
Director: Lisandro Perez-Rey
Director of Photography: Charlie Jordan
Editor: Louis Lalire
Host: Garrett Graff
Guest: Antony Blinken
Line Producer: Joseph Buscemi
Associate Producer: Brandon White
Production Manager: Peter Brunette
Production Coordinator: Rhyan Lark
Camera Operator: Ben Finkel
Sound Mixer: Elijah Sutton
Post Production Supervisor: Christian Olguin
Post Production Coordinator: Ian Bryant
Supervising Editor: Doug Larsen
Assistant Editor: Justin Symonds
Director: Lisandro Perez-Rey
Director of Photography: Charlie Jordan
Editor: Louis Lalire
Host: Garrett Graff
Guest: Antony Blinken
Line Producer: Joseph Buscemi
Associate Producer: Brandon White
Production Manager: Peter Brunette
Production Coordinator: Rhyan Lark
Camera Operator: Ben Finkel
Sound Mixer: Elijah Sutton
Post Production Supervisor: Christian Olguin
Post Production Coordinator: Ian Bryant
Supervising Editor: Doug Larsen
Assistant Editor: Justin Symonds
Category
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TechTranscript
00:00They're engaged, for example, right now in an extensive expansion of their nuclear program,
00:04the highest end chips. We want to make sure that China is not able to acquire those and then feed
00:09them directly into its military program. Wired sat down with U.S. Secretary of State
00:14Antony Blinken to talk about emerging technology and cybersecurity. This is The Big Interview.
00:25Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for sitting with us today. Great to be with you. I want to ask
00:29you a little bit about the way that you have prioritized cybersecurity at the department here.
00:34Last July, of course, the State Department was the one that actually discovered the Chinese
00:40intrusion of Microsoft systems, which for those of us who cover cybersecurity, was shocking that
00:46the State Department would be the originator of discovering an event like that. It was a
00:51little surprising for me too, both a pleasant surprise because I was very proud of the fact
00:56that we have remarkable people in place who are able to do that. But of course,
01:01when you have any kind of cyber intrusion, it's a deep concern and it's an ongoing concern for
01:06the government. It's exactly why we tried to make this department, among other things,
01:10fit for purpose when it comes to cybersecurity. One of the things that you have done is create
01:15this new Cybersecurity Bureau with Ambassador Nate Fick. I wonder if you could talk a little
01:19bit about the effort to build not digital sovereignty, but digital solidarity.
01:26Look, what I've seen since coming back to the State Department three and a half years ago
01:32is that everything happening in the technological world and in cyberspace
01:39is increasingly central to our foreign policy. It's central because we see extraordinary
01:43possibility in actually making a difference on critical issues that matter to people around
01:47the world and matter to our own people, whether it's health, whether it's education, whether it's
01:51climate. We also see the vulnerabilities and the dangers. We know that what's happening at home
01:56and what's happening around the world are increasingly connected. So we wanted to make
02:00sure that we're taking account of that in the way we set ourselves up, the way we attract talent,
02:05and the way we conduct our diplomacy. There's almost a perfect storm,
02:09several major developments that have really brought this to the forefront of what we're
02:13doing and what we need to do. First, we have a new generation of foundational technologies that
02:19are literally changing the world all at the same time. So whether it's AI, whether it's quantum,
02:24whether it's microelectronics, biotech, telecoms, they're having a profound impact and increasingly
02:30their conversion and feeding off of each other. Second, we're seeing that the line between the
02:36digital and physical worlds is evaporating, erasing. We have cars, we have ports, we have
02:42hospitals that are huge and affect data centers with so much information being generated or coming
02:48in, big vulnerabilities. And at the same time, we have increasingly rare materials that are critical
02:56to be able to advance technology and fragile supply chains. In each of these areas,
03:00the State Department is taking action. And then finally, we have to look at everything in terms
03:04of stacks, the hardware, the software, the talent, and the norms, the rules, the standards by which
03:11this technology are used. All of this is coming together. And the bottom line is our country has
03:16to be at the height of competitiveness if we're going to make sure that we're covering all of
03:21these areas and making sure that we're maximizing the good and minimizing the bad. This administration
03:27has made extraordinary investments, as you know, in our technology, the Chips and Science Act,
03:31the so-called Inflation Reduction Act, which is the biggest investment in climate technology
03:35in history. And between the public and the private, we've generated three and a half
03:40trillion dollars of investment. It's an incredibly powerful thing because countries see the investments
03:46we've made in ourselves, in our own competitiveness, and they want to work with us. So I want to make
03:51sure that we have the diplomats who are trained and able not only to engage, but to lead all of
03:59these conversations around the world. We've now trained more than 200 cybersecurity and digital
04:05officers, people who are genuinely expert. And that means every one of our embassies around the
04:10world will have at least one person who is truly fluent in tech and in digital policy. My goal
04:17is to make sure that across the entire department, we have basic literacy,
04:22ideally fluency, and even eventually mastery.
04:26Your tenure here at Foggy Bottom has coincided with what feels like the fracturing of the dream
04:31of the global internet. And we've begun to see the splintering into a European regulatory web,
04:38authoritarian regimes using the internet as a surveillance tool overseas. Of course, we've seen
04:44this played out in US policy on Huawei and TikTok. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about
04:49your view of the future of the internet. Ideally, we don't have that fracture. And
04:54certainly that would be the preference. And we've done a number of things, actually,
04:57to try to move in another direction, to try to build broad consensus on the way technology is
05:02used. Because these rules, these norms, these standards, that's absolutely critical. And
05:08the conversations about this often happen in windowless rooms, maybe at the UN, maybe halfway
05:13around the world. Not only are we at the table, we want to be at the head of the table. Let me
05:17give you an example. On AI, we had incredible work done by the White House to develop basic
05:24principles with the foundational companies that were engaged in this, the voluntary commitments
05:29they made. State Department went out and has worked to basically internationalize those
05:35commitments, those principles. We have a G7 code of conduct, the leading democratic economies
05:41of the world, all agreeing to basic principles with a focus on safety. We managed to get the
05:46very first resolution ever on artificial intelligence through the United Nations
05:51General Assembly, 192 countries also signing up to basic principles on safety and a focus of using
05:58AI to advance sustainable development goals. These are the goals that the entire world is set to try
06:03to move the world forward on things like health, education, climate. And we also have more than
06:0850 countries that have signed on to basic principles on the responsible military use of AI.
06:15So the goal here is not to have a world that is bifurcated in any way, it's to try to bring
06:21everyone together. Having said that, you're right. There are areas where, of course, we're in intense
06:26competition with other countries. And if we can't come together on rules that make sure that we're
06:32elevating the good and minimizing the bad, well, we have to make sure we're protecting our values
06:37and protecting our interests. For example, when it comes to the highest end technology,
06:42say the highest end chips that we have, we want to make sure that a country like China
06:47is not able to acquire those and then feed them directly into its military program. They're
06:53engaged, for example, right now in an extensive expansion of their nuclear program, very opaque.
06:58It's not in our interest to have the highest end technology we have go right into that. Also,
07:04technology is unfortunately used to repress people, surveillance, repress their human rights.
07:09We want to make sure our technology is not used for that. But as we've said, we want to make sure
07:13that as we're protecting, as opposed to promoting technology, we're doing it in a way that has a
07:20smallest possible yard along with the highest possible fence. Because broadly speaking,
07:26we want technology to get out there. We see it profoundly as a source for good, for progress.
07:31We want to make sure it's shared widely and broadly. And this is this notion of solidarity.
07:36We want to be collaborating, cooperating, working with other countries, building capacity,
07:40sharing knowledge, helping everyone solve these common problems. But for discrete parts of the
07:46ecosystem, we have to make sure we're protecting. We have to have supply chains that are not only
07:52resilient, but are diversified. So we're not dependent on any one place for any critical
07:57input. We went through COVID. We saw where that can lead. We don't want to see the same thing
08:02on critical technology. So the goal, the hope is to develop the broadest possible consensus. But
08:08in certain areas, if we have to, yes, we're going to make sure that we're well protected.
08:14Let me ask you also about Russia and ransomware. Another issue that has defined your tenure in the
08:19Biden administration's national security agenda over the last couple of years. Is there more
08:24that the United States and the Western alliance could be doing to push Russia to be a better
08:31actor online? Or do you see this as an intractable problem going forward?
08:35Look, it's an ongoing challenge. And the invasion of Ukraine happened. It's obviously made the
08:40entire relationship much more difficult than it already was. And so I think, unfortunately,
08:46there are probably limits as to what we can achieve. Having said that, we're also working
08:51increasingly collaboratively, not only with the private sector, but also with other countries to
08:56develop common strategies, to develop common approaches, to build solidarity there. Because
09:02so many companies, so many countries are afflicted with this scourge of ransomware. We're sharing
09:06information. We're sharing best practices. And we're looking at what kind of collective action
09:11can be taken to deter and disincentivize those who might be engaged in ransomware,
09:17or those who are supporting it. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for
09:20sitting with WIRED for the Big Interview. Great to be with you, Gary. Thank you.