This episode it's all about women in whisky. Rosalind is joined by Becky Paskin, drinks journalist, broadcaster and founder of Our Whisky Foundation which supports and promotes women in the whisky industry. Rosalind is also joined by Sarah Burgess, whisky maker for the Lakes Distillery.
The trio discuss the reasoning behind setting up the Our Whisky Foundation and what it's doing for women in the industry. This includes a very successful mentorship programme which is growing by the year. Sarah and Becky share their really positive experience being part of the initiative as well as the exciting opportunity to create a whole new whisky.
Earlier this year they curated the world's first whisky auction made by and dedicated to women. The Demeter collection was sold to raise funds for the foundation. Sarah developed a special whisky for the collection and Becky has been pivotal in ensuring the success of the auction which has proved to be a great triumph.
The trio discuss the reasoning behind setting up the Our Whisky Foundation and what it's doing for women in the industry. This includes a very successful mentorship programme which is growing by the year. Sarah and Becky share their really positive experience being part of the initiative as well as the exciting opportunity to create a whole new whisky.
Earlier this year they curated the world's first whisky auction made by and dedicated to women. The Demeter collection was sold to raise funds for the foundation. Sarah developed a special whisky for the collection and Becky has been pivotal in ensuring the success of the auction which has proved to be a great triumph.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00I'm now joined by Becky Paskin and Sarah Burgess. Hi guys, how are you?
00:08Hello. Hey Ros.
00:10Nice to see you both. Now, I know you've both been on the podcast before in different episodes,
00:15but for anyone that hasn't listened to them or doesn't really know you guys, would you
00:19like to just tell us a little bit about who you are and where you come from and what you
00:23do, not that it's like blind date at all.
00:27I will go first, I guess. I'm Becky Paskin. I'm a drinks journalist and presenter.
00:33I specialize in whiskey, but I do cover other spirits as well.
00:37I was previously editor of The Spirits Business, Scotchwhiskey.com.
00:41I've been freelance for quite a while now, and I also run the Our Whiskey Foundation,
00:46which is a non-profit that supports women in the global whiskey industry.
00:53And now it's time for me. I am Sarah Burgess.
00:56I am the whiskey maker for the Lakes Distillery.
00:59I've been working in whiskey for a really long time now.
01:03I like to say more than 20 years, but to be fair, it's getting close to 30.
01:08I think I'll maybe just stick with 20 forever.
01:12Same way I'm sticking with 25.
01:16I think that's fine, Ros.
01:19I love how polite we're being.
01:23We all three of us know each other very well, but all of a sudden you put us on a podcast
01:27and we're being very polite.
01:29Because as soon as you pressed record, everyone's like, oh, I'm not talking.
01:38Becky, you mentioned Our Whiskey Foundation.
01:40So for anyone that doesn't know, could you just give us a little bit of background into that as well?
01:44Yeah, sure.
01:45So Our Whiskey was a kind of a movement that I started back in 2018
01:51while I was editor of ScotchWhiskey.com.
01:53And I had realized that there wasn't very much visibility of women
01:57who were working within the whiskey industry.
01:59And I wanted to just try and do something about that.
02:02Just raise some awareness of the fact that women do, shock horror,
02:06like to drink and do, in fact, make whiskey.
02:09And fast forward to 2022, I was no longer working with ScotchWhiskey.com.
02:16I was freelance and I turned Our Whiskey into a nonprofit.
02:20So it's now the Our Whiskey Foundation.
02:23And we are a global nonprofit.
02:26We support women in the global industry from all walks of the industry.
02:32So from whiskey makers through to brand ambassadors, writers, podcasters as well.
02:38We have a mentorship program, which so far has had 200 mentees go through the program.
02:45We have mentors from around the world.
02:47Sarah is one of our lovely mentors.
02:49And we just support women on their career journeys by helping give them a bit of a confidence boost
02:56by providing them with some personal and professional skills as well.
02:59So through workshops and through networking opportunities,
03:02just making sure that they know that each other exists,
03:06that they're not alone within this massive, vast industry.
03:09Because I think a lot of the time we forget that women can feel quite cut off, particularly in Scotland.
03:14Distilleries are quite rural.
03:15And when you're a woman working alone in a very male-dominated team, it can feel quite isolating.
03:20So we try and provide that network, that community for them so they don't feel so alone.
03:26We do lots of other things, lots of different projects.
03:29We do surveys, reports.
03:32We even created a free stock image library of diverse people drinking whiskey,
03:37because I realized that free stock imagery went as far as showing female whiskey drinkers as being naked and pregnant.
03:45And that's it.
03:47So we decided to try and change that by providing some nice images for the media to be able to use for free.
03:53Which has been invaluable from my point of view.
03:56But pregnant? So they were pregnant and drinking whiskey?
03:59Oh, yeah, naked and pregnant.
04:02And drunk.
04:04Because obviously, that's what you have to be to enjoy whiskey.
04:08I don't know.
04:09And at the same time, like the free stock images depicting men drinking whiskey,
04:14of course, they're suave, they're in their suits, they're at the bar, they're in their leather armchairs.
04:18They're looking very sophisticated, very cultured, very wealthy.
04:22And it was a stark contrast to the way that women were being depicted in these images.
04:28Yeah, we just decided to do something about it.
04:32Well, I should go and find them because that sounds hilarious.
04:36I should probably add that the images we've created within the first year of them being available,
04:42they've had, let me get this right, 10 million downloads and 100,000 downloads and 10 million views.
04:53So these images have been used across media, across advertising campaigns.
04:58The Scotch Whiskey Association is using them.
05:01They are far and wide all around the world now being used to market whiskey as a drink that is suitable for anybody.
05:09So it's done such a great job of reaching out to a lot of different people.
05:14I'm just so pleased that the industry is using them and that they find them invaluable.
05:19What you've done for the industry and through the foundation, I think, is absolutely amazing.
05:25Giving people a voice and a confidence has just been so brilliant.
05:31Thank you, Sarah. And I mean, the input that you've had in the foundation has been amazing.
05:36One of our mentors several times over, you've just had such an amazing impact on the women that you've had under your charge as well.
05:46Like, I love it. You know, I guess I'm really lucky coming from Speyside and starting to work in whiskey because Speyside in itself is a wee community.
05:58So I knew everybody. I already felt quite confident and connected.
06:05And it wasn't until I started to move around other parts of Scotland when I worked for Diageo and started to appreciate,
06:13you know, if you're up in Brora or you're down in the borders or over on the West Coast, you are quite isolated.
06:22If you are, as a woman, wanting to start working in distillery, how can you do it?
06:29What's the steps to take? Who's going to help you?
06:32And so I was so supported by the local community and by people already work for the company.
06:39And I wanted to give back a bit. You know, I always just feel like I had a great experience.
06:46Only a few negative moments, but actually to try and support someone else through their career and give them positives and give them the encouragement that they need.
06:58I think it's invaluable. We need people to be producing and consuming this product forevermore.
07:06Because in a couple of hundred years, you should be talking about the things that Becky Paskin did to pave the way rather than Helen and Elizabeth come in.
07:14You know, like I think it's that's the way that the world is right now.
07:18And it's special to be part of it.
07:20Oh, my God. Thank you. That's quite a lot. But I mean, they'll be talking about Sarah Burgess for sure.
07:26There might be you left on whisky. Sorry, Roz, we've overtaken this as this massive lovely.
07:31We don't need anyone to talk to us.
07:36It's really nice to hear. One of the things you worked on together most recently was the auction.
07:42So do you want to tell us a bit about that, Becky and you first and Sarah, I'll come to you because you created a whisky as well.
07:47So that's exciting. Yeah. So earlier this year, I can't believe it was.
07:53It feels like so long ago now. We launched the world's first auction of whisky made by and dedicated to women.
08:02So it was called the Demeter Collection. Demeter is the Greek goddess of harvest and grain.
08:10And the thing about Demeter is that her story is largely untold in popular culture, but she's one of the twelve Olympians.
08:18So she's up there with Zeus. She's up there as one of the main Olympians.
08:23But people don't really know her story. They probably know the one of Persephone, her daughter, who was kidnapped by Hades, taken to the underworld.
08:30But Demeter is not really very well known.
08:34And that kind of resonated with us because that's very much like a lot of women who work in the whisky industry.
08:39We don't really know much about them. The stories aren't really told.
08:43So through the Demeter Collection, we had two aims. One was to raise as much money as we could for the Our Whisky Foundation.
08:51We are a non-profit and we don't have any money to do all of our services.
08:56So we really needed to raise as much as we could.
08:59But the other was to raise awareness about women and the contribution that they're making to the whisky industry, not just in Scotch, but globally as well.
09:09And we had some amazing lots. There were about 20 in the end.
09:14Forgive me, I can't remember. It's been so long. There were about 20.
09:18And we had some incredible pieces, one-off bottles that were created specifically for the Demeter Collection.
09:25They'll never be repeated ever again.
09:28We raised, I think, just shy of £50,000 for the Our Whisky Foundation, which was amazing.
09:35But one of the whiskies was actually something that we created.
09:41The Our Whisky Foundation whisky we created in collaboration with Sarah.
09:45And that was kind of a pride and joy, really, to make this one whisky, which we called Atonia's Legacy.
09:55Do you want to tell us how that went, Sarah? How did you do it? What was it all about?
10:00How easy was it? How hard was it? How long did it take?
10:04Like Becky said, it feels like absolutely ages ago that the whisky was all completed.
10:11But we talked about it for a long time and like all making of whisky, it's all about the planning.
10:22To get the opportunity as a whisky maker to take such a variety of whisky
10:30and not actually have to think, is this in line with our house style?
10:37And just do what I wanted, so I could be totally free to make something interesting.
10:47So, look, I think I like a sweetness to a whisky, but I also really like peat.
10:55So to be able to make a sweet, smoky, special whisky to raise money for the Our Whisky Foundation,
11:04I still can't actually believe that I was asked to do it in the first place.
11:11Getting the opportunity to do it was amazing. Seeing it bottled, I loved.
11:17Then I had to panic going, oh, this is going to auction. What if no one actually buys it?
11:24And it doesn't make any money for the foundation.
11:27So I kept watching the auction going, if no one bids, then I'm just going to buy it.
11:31I'll just buy it. That's what I'll do.
11:35And I kept watching and kept watching it.
11:38And it's obviously confidential, the results of the auction,
11:41but the person that bought it contacted me to let me know that the purchase had been made.
11:47And I'm so delighted with the whisky collector that owns it.
11:53It's really special.
12:01Sarah was our first choice to work with on Atonia's Legacy.
12:04I think it's worth explaining a bit about the background of it and the name as well,
12:09and where that all came from.
12:10So when we were launching the Demeter collection,
12:14we always thought it'd be really nice to have our own whisky in there,
12:18something that's going to be repeated in every single auction that we do,
12:22but that changes each time.
12:24And we always wanted to have a renowned female blender behind that whisky,
12:29but the contents of that whisky would change each time.
12:32So when we were thinking about what this whisky would be,
12:36and we thought, you know,
12:37it really should be something that's a representation of what we do as an organisation.
12:41And our big thing is our mentorship programme.
12:45And the women who we support through that mentorship programme.
12:49So we wanted a whisky that was representative of our mentees and our mentors.
12:54And we actually put it out to all of our mentees and asked them,
13:00we need a name for a whisky.
13:02What do you think?
13:04And we opened it up.
13:06And one of our mentees came back with the perfect name.
13:09She said, I was going to call my daughter this name,
13:11but I didn't in the end, I went with something else.
13:14But I liked the name Atonia because it means strong as oak.
13:19And I just thought that was perfect because it really signifies the strength of every single one of our mentees.
13:26And when you think of an oak tree, you think of these deep roots and these sprawling branches.
13:31And that really is very much reflective of our mentorship programme as well.
13:36We are really trying to set in roots, helping everybody to establish their careers.
13:41And then also these branches, which is a kind of imagery for helping shelter everybody together within a community.
13:51So Atonia really helped, was perfect for us.
13:55Our emblem is an oak tree as well.
13:57So we asked our mentees to put forward some liquid.
14:02And Sarah didn't know what was being put forward.
14:06She had no idea until so much stock arrived on her doorstep.
14:10And she went about the process of blending all of that together.
14:13In the meantime, we approached Glencairn Crystal Studios and their main designer, Kirstie Nicholson,
14:21was very gracious and said, we will design a decanter for you.
14:24She even designed the emblem for us as well.
14:27So by this point, only women had been involved in this whisky.
14:32Aside from the distilling of the whiskies themselves, only women had really been involved in the creation of it.
14:38We'd been speaking with a bottler at ACO, so Helen Abbott.
14:42She was going to be bottling this for us.
14:44And she actually came in on her day off to bottle the whisky herself,
14:49because she was adamant that only female hands should touch Atonia's legacy.
14:54So from the second all of this liquid arrived in Sarah's blending lab all the way through to bottling,
15:01it's only been women that have been involved in Atonia's legacy.
15:04And then the proceeds of the money raised is going back into the mentorship programme as well
15:09to help the next generation of women that come through.
15:12So it's really, it's a really special whisky.
15:16And each one is one of a kind.
15:18So our next auction will have a different Atonia's legacy.
15:21And yeah, more on that to come.
15:25That's such a lovely story.
15:27I was going to ask you, is there plans to do this again?
15:30Can you talk any more about it? Or is it still in planning stages?
15:34We will be doing the Demeter collection again.
15:37So the next auction will be in 2026.
15:40So every two years we'll be running another auction.
15:43And Atonia's legacy will form a part of that.
15:46It will be a part of every single Demeter collection.
15:50We will be working with another blender next time.
15:52Sorry, Sarah.
15:55I was keen to do a collaboration, but Becky just doesn't want me.
15:59Once was enough.
16:01You know, I can't get enough of you.
16:03We need to make room for some other people.
16:07The next one will be completely different.
16:09I can't say any more about that for now.
16:12But yeah, just watch this space.
16:14And when 2026 comes around, I just hope everyone listening is interested and wants to place a bid.
16:19It really is a special whisky.
16:21And along with all the other lots in these auctions,
16:24every penny goes back into the Our Whisky Foundation to support all the projects that we do.
16:29So it really is a circular thing.
16:32And I love the fact that it was made by Sarah, our first one, because she's one of our mentors as well.
16:37So it really is this familial whisky.
16:40It's just beautiful.
16:42I think when you see people coming through the program and where they are in their own journey,
16:49and I guess in their own head about in terms of confidence and their future ability,
16:56all of those questions that they have and how much over such a short space of time,
17:04you know, six months for the program, you would not believe the change.
17:10I mean, the most recent program, it finished up, what was it, June this year.
17:15I was muddled with the months.
17:17So in May, so many of that group got together and came up to Speyside, rented a house together.
17:26They'd only met each other in virtual meeting rooms.
17:30There'd be no face to face.
17:32And here they are coming together, going to visit as many distilleries as they could and having a great time.
17:39You know, when Becky's talking about this creation of a community and creation of a network,
17:45it is not words, it's real.
17:48People are making friends and supporting each other and making life more fun and easier in industry.
17:57It's just phenomenal.
18:00Yes, I was there at the party and they were all, the dog you've seen,
18:04they're all rented a house and come up together.
18:06It was lovely to see.
18:07I mean, is that one of the things you've been most surprised about the Mentoring Scheme,
18:10how quickly people have bonded and come together?
18:12Or has there been anything else that you sort of really stood out to you about it?
18:16Sarah, I'll start with you.
18:18I think for me, the biggest difference is when people start the program,
18:22it's more about, I'm not sure I can do that.
18:26By the end, it's, I wonder what's going to happen when.
18:31You know, their whole mindset is different.
18:36The changes of careers, like some of the team from the most recent program have changed jobs already.
18:47They're on to a new track.
18:51One of my colleagues from the Lakes is on this cohort for the program,
18:56and she cannot believe how great it is.
19:01All the support that's there, all the events that are on,
19:04and she's making so much more time for her own development.
19:08It's really, really great.
19:11We've had 200 women go through it now, and every single one of them has progressed, achieved something.
19:20Quite a few have got new jobs or moved into different areas or promotions,
19:26and some have just increased their confidence, but are continuing in their same role.
19:31That is still a win for us.
19:33So long as they feel like they've progressed in some way, we're happy for them.
19:38So long as they feel a bit more confident, like they've got people around them,
19:41they're in a supportive community, that's what it's all about.
19:45We're not always looking for these big wins.
19:47That's not what the program's about.
19:49It's about an individual's journey, and so long as we can help with that,
19:53that's all we care about, really.
19:55But do you know, Becky, I think actually the change that it makes to the mentor as well,
20:00you know, each time I have a new mentee in the program, I learn something different,
20:07not just learning about them, but learning about me too.
20:10It's really, look, I actually have no words for how much I love our Whiskey Foundation.
20:18What it delivers to people and the way that it changes lives within our industry
20:24is truly remarkable.
20:28Is it one of those things, Sarah, where you feel like you can't believe
20:31that it wasn't done before?
20:32Do you know if you've been in the industry for a really long time
20:34or is it very much a need to be happening now?
20:38I remember when I was moving to production for the very first time
20:44and there was one female senior manager.
20:49So I would go and talk to her because she's going to have all of the answers.
20:53She knows she's been down this path, and the experience that she had
20:57was very different to me.
21:01But she very much believed that gender wasn't a barrier.
21:07It was your mindset that was your only barrier.
21:11And I'm not sure how true I really believe that to be,
21:16but if that genuinely is the case and all of our responsibilities
21:20are just to break down that barrier in people's minds, then let's do it.
21:28So we're sitting here in the sort of second half of the year.
21:31What are your hopes for the future?
21:33Obviously, you guys have done some amazing work,
21:35and you know you're really building up the next generation,
21:37but what would you say, like, say if you had a crystal ball
21:39and it was five years from now, what would you hope is happening
21:41within whisky, Becky?
21:45Within whisky or the Our Whisky Foundation specifically?
21:49Start with whisky and then Our Whisky Foundation after.
21:57You know, it's every now and then I start to really believe
22:02that we're progressing and that things are becoming easier
22:05and we're becoming a more equitable industry.
22:08We're more welcoming.
22:09And I start to think, oh, well, maybe the Our Whisky Foundation
22:13is becoming irrelevant.
22:14Amazing.
22:15That is kind of our goal.
22:16We don't want to be needed anymore.
22:19But then things happen and I go, oh, no, we haven't progressed.
22:25There's still plenty of work to be done.
22:27So I guess, you know, I'm under no impression that it's going to take
22:34a couple of months to change.
22:36It's not going to take a couple of years.
22:37It will take a long time.
22:38It will be the next generation that see the change
22:40that we're trying to make now.
22:42And I think that's the point.
22:44And it's very much like whisky making.
22:46You know, you're not doing this for the next five to ten years.
22:48You're doing it for the next century.
22:52You're doing it for future proofing of the industry.
22:56That's the work that we're doing right now.
22:58And I'm not just speaking for me.
22:59I'm speaking for everybody that's working in this industry
23:02on diversity and inclusion specifically.
23:05We are all trying to make changes now that will affect the next
23:11generation that come through.
23:13And I think speaking to what Sarah said, I do think part of it is mindset.
23:17I do think part of it is not just the mindset of, oh,
23:20I need to be a more formidable, confident woman.
23:22I don't think it's necessarily down to individuals to take
23:25on that responsibility.
23:27But it's up to the industry and individuals in the industry
23:32to be more open-minded to some of the barriers that individuals face,
23:36and not just women, but others, anyone else who's marginalized as well,
23:40because there are so many barriers.
23:42And until we're aware of them, awareness is the first step, right?
23:46We need to be able to know what that challenge is,
23:49what those barriers are in order to be able to change them.
23:51So I guess my hope for the next sort of six months to a year is that we
23:56continue that journey of awareness and just opening some of those doors
24:01and having those conversations and being open-minded about what needs
24:06to happen and what might need to change.
24:11Sarah, what about you?
24:13I'm not really sure I can follow that, Roz, to be fair.
24:17I think for whisky in the next five years,
24:21like I really hope that whisky is being consumed freely,
24:25and I don't mean it doesn't cost anything.
24:28I mean, people are going to the bar and ordering a whisky without fear.
24:33They go there and go, yeah, I'm going to have a whisky and coke.
24:38I'm going to have whisky soda.
24:40I'm going to have whisky straight.
24:42I'm going to have a whisky cocktail, whatever.
24:44And that when you're drinking in a round of drinks,
24:48when you say, I would like a whisky,
24:51it doesn't instill fear in the person going to the bar.
24:54It doesn't give them a panic attack to go, I can't do that.
24:57I can't order a whisky.
24:59I mean, I don't know anything about it.
25:01And there's all these people, you know,
25:04people genuinely have that reaction when you say you want a whisky.
25:09So hopefully in five years' time, that doesn't exist any longer.
25:13People are just enjoying it.
25:14And there's less, I guess, pomp around whisky.
25:19And what do I hope for the foundation?
25:21I hope that we get to a place where we don't have limits on the amount of
25:27people that can enter each cohort because we become,
25:33we're in a place where it's not quite so needed.
25:40And, you know, some years you might have a couple of hundred people coming
25:45through and some years you have 10, but we run it anyway.
25:48We run it for whatever the need is.
25:52A lot of that really centers around how much money we're able to raise.
25:58I think a lot of people don't really understand how much work goes into
26:03running a mentorship program like this.
26:05And, you know,
26:06we're actually thinking of changing the name because it's so much more than
26:09just mentorship. It's a full on scholarship, really.
26:13You know, it's, we offer this for free to mentees.
26:17So when women come through, there's no charge whatsoever.
26:20It is a rigorous interview process. I'll be honest,
26:23it's rigorous because we want to make sure that people who are getting onto the
26:27program are really in it. They really want to do it.
26:30But it does cost us between 500,
26:33600 pounds per person to get through that program.
26:37And when we're putting 50 through per year, it adds up.
26:41It's really hard to keep it going.
26:43There's a lot of people who were involved in the foundation and we struggle
26:47for money.
26:48So any support that we can get as a nonprofit is so welcome.
26:53We actually have a button on our website to donate.
26:57So if anyone's listening to this and likes the sound of the work that we're
27:00doing and wants to support the next generation of people coming into the
27:03industry, please go and donate at DRAM.
27:06Push the button, give your money away to Arifuski Foundation.
27:11Push the button.
27:18I'm sure we've got the link. I'm sure we could rock it.
27:23From our perspective, you know, we're really excited.
27:25The Arifuski Foundation has been asked to be the education partner for a
27:30drinks trade show in Berlin in October, which is really exciting.
27:33It's really big for us.
27:34So we've been invited into the bar space in Germany to lead
27:40educational hub for people come to that show.
27:44And there's, you know, there's thousands of people that go through.
27:46So it's a huge opportunity for us to not just educate about whiskey,
27:50which is obviously a huge passion of ours,
27:52but to educate the industry about the importance of inclusion within the
27:56whiskey industry too. So that's really cool.
27:59Really, really excited about that.
28:00And there are a lot of producers that are going to be at this show as well,
28:04lots of Scotch whiskey producers. So that's quite a big one for us.
28:07But everything else you're going to have to just wait and see,
28:09because I'm very much like, like Sarah,
28:12I can't really talk about it at the moment, but yeah.
28:152026, the meter collection. That's put that on your diaries.
28:21Well, thank you very much.
28:22It sounds like there is a lot of exciting things going on.
28:24And thank you for your time. It was nice to see you both.
28:26And hopefully next time we meet up, we'll be able to do it over a jam.
28:31Not hopefully, definitely.
28:37Yeah.