(Gita-8) The Self and the joy of immortality || Acharya Prashant, on Bhagvad Gita (2024)

Acharya Prashant

‍♂️ Want to meet Acharya Prashant? Be a part of the Live Sessions: https://acharyaprashant.org/hi/enquir...   Want to read Acharya Prashant's Books? Get Free Delivery: https://acharyaprashant.org/en/books?... ~~~~~  Video Information: 13.04.24, Vedanta Session, Greater Noida   Context: ~ How to know what to choose? ~ What should one learn from Arjun?  ~ What makes Arjun worthy?  ~ How to attain perfection? ~ Why is there so much difference in what we say and what we do? ~ Is visiting temples makes one religious?  ~ What is the real meaning of Dharma?   Music Credits: Milind Date  ~~~~~

Transcript

00:00:00We are taking up verses 19 to 21 of the second chapter of Shriyad Bhagavad Gita.

00:00:18The underlying principle first.

00:00:30This session is needed neither by Prakriti nor by Atma.

00:00:45Neither of them is in need of any advice, teaching or preaching.

00:01:05Atma is pure non-dual consciousness, free of arrival and departure and being free of

00:01:25everything in Prakriti, it is free of all sorrow.

00:01:33Therefore, the pure self, Atma, needs no healing.

00:01:54Prakriti is a self-sufficient system with no experiencer at all.

00:02:14Therefore, there is nobody there to experience any kind of sorrow.

00:02:25Hence, Prakriti too does not need any teacher or healing or guru, any sermon.

00:02:46Who is to be addressed then?

00:02:51Who is to be healed?

00:02:55It is the fantastic entity called the ego.

00:02:59The ego thinks of itself as something real.

00:03:21Therefore, it calls itself the truth.

00:03:23It says, I am the self.

00:03:30I am real.

00:03:42The thing is, it is just real unto itself.

00:03:49Yes, the ego is real.

00:03:51To whom?

00:03:53To itself.

00:04:01It is the ego that experiences all sorrow because its self-proclaimed reality is contingent on the vicissitudes of Prakriti.

00:04:21Atma is real in a non-dual way.

00:04:26Hence, it does not lean upon anything to ensure its completeness.

00:04:36It is complete within itself without needing any predicates from Prakriti.

00:04:45On the other hand, the completeness of the ego is always dependent on objects from Prakriti.

00:05:08Prakriti, as experienced by the ego, is a continuous system of rise and fall and change of form.

00:05:38The ego does not associate itself with Prakriti as a whole.

00:05:54It cannot because it is little, therefore, dualistic.

00:06:00It needs an other to have its own existence.

00:06:11If the ego is associated with or predicated on the entirety of Prakriti, then there is no other.

00:06:23If there is no other, the ego cannot exist.

00:06:25Every small thing necessarily needs an other.

00:06:36So, the ego attaches itself to some little fragments it perceives in Prakriti.

00:06:55And as we said, everything in Prakriti is continuously experiencing a change in form.

00:07:07Change in form.

00:07:14Not construction or destruction, just change in form.

00:07:23But if you are attached to water and the water turns to vapor or ice, for you, it is not change of form, it is death.

00:07:38For the element itself, it is merely change of form, nothing more than that has happened.

00:07:49But if you were attached to water specifically, for you, it means death.

00:07:59The water is no more there.

00:08:01So, you are no more there. You are gone.

00:08:04From this arises the mighty scare of mankind called death.

00:08:12The ego, as we said, is a fantastic element that arises from Prakriti and becomes the sole experiencer of Prakriti, the sole perceiver of Prakriti.

00:08:30In that sense, you could very logically say that it does not arise from Prakriti, it arises along with Prakriti.

00:08:47Because if the ego is the sole experiencer of Prakriti, then Prakriti cannot exist without ego.

00:08:54If the ego alone ratifies the existence of Prakriti, then ego does not really arise from Prakriti, it arises along with Prakriti.

00:09:10And if you say that, my answer will be yes.

00:09:17The ego arises along with Prakriti and this co-origination is to be addressed by the name of Prakriti itself.

00:09:36For Prakriti is not just the insentient objects but also the little consciousness that we call as ego.

00:09:54Both these together are called as Prakriti and if you want to differentiate between them,

00:10:11Shri Krishna very beautifully calls one as Aparaprakriti and other as Paraprakriti.

00:10:26The world of inanimate objects as seen by the ego is called Aparaprakriti.

00:10:35And the ego itself, the seer of all these inanimate objects, the Jada Jagat is called Paraprakriti.

00:10:46And together these two constitute Prakriti.

00:10:50So yes, you are right if you say that the ego does not arise from Prakriti, it arises along with Prakriti.

00:10:58You are right if you are taking Prakriti as Aparaprakriti.

00:11:05But when you consider the totality of the term, then it is right to say that the ego arises from Prakriti.

00:11:18Are you getting it?

00:11:20What is the ego? Does it really exist?

00:11:23It exists only to itself.

00:11:27It exists as long as it is looking at the world in an enarmored way.

00:11:40So the answer isn't absolute.

00:11:42The answer is contingent on who you are.

00:11:45And it's a beautiful question to ask.

00:11:48Does the ego exist or not?

00:11:51It does exist.

00:11:54If you are inebriated, besotted, then it does exist.

00:11:59Pay attention and it does not.

00:12:03So it depends on your state.

00:12:05Does the ego exist? It depends on the state of the ego itself.

00:12:10If the ego is attentive, it does not exist.

00:12:13If the ego is inattentive, it exists.

00:12:15To whom does it exist? Only to itself.

00:12:20Now you understand why the sole method of Vedanta is Atma Gyan.

00:12:28If all that the ego wants is liberation from itself,

00:12:33which means coming to see its own non-existence,

00:12:37then the only way to see its non-existence is by paying attention to itself.

00:12:42The more the ego pays attention to itself, it sees that it does not exist.

00:12:47The more the ego remains attached to this and that, all the sensory inputs,

00:12:54the ego feels that is real and this is real.

00:12:59That is real and this is real.

00:13:08What is the definition of reality in Vedanta?

00:13:12In general, we call something real if we can perceive it, verify it through senses.

00:13:18No, that is not the definition of reality in Vedanta.

00:13:21That which we call as reality in everyday parlance is just experience or perception.

00:13:28In Vedanta, the real is that which cannot be tested by anything.

00:13:34Because if something can be tested by something, it means that thing is dependent on the tester.

00:13:41The real therefore is not available to verification.

00:13:45The real is that whose existence is not at all contingent on something else.

00:13:51You see, how do you test something's existence? By varying the condition.

00:13:57You walk into a room. The room is dark.

00:14:01How do you test whether or not there is somebody in the room?

00:14:04You change the conditions of the room.

00:14:06You change the darkness to illumination and immediately you can verify.

00:14:11Are you getting it?

00:14:19In Vedanta, the real is that which is not at all dependent on any conditions.

00:14:26Why is such a definition being given? The answer is very practical.

00:14:31The answer is hidden in the very genesis of Vedanta.

00:14:37Never forget and use that as your guiding rule of thumb if you ever find a conflict

00:14:46with respect to the meaning or interpretation of some verse, some sutra.

00:14:52The entire purpose is to rid man of his suffering.

00:14:56That's why Vedanta exists.

00:15:00And now you must know why reality must not be dependent on anything.

00:15:03Because if something is dependent on something else, that is slavery and that is suffering.

00:15:08The very purpose of Vedanta is amelioration of suffering.

00:15:14And suffering comes from dependency.

00:15:17Therefore, Vedanta went so far as to say that if you are dependent on something, then you are not real.

00:15:25Hence, the very definition of reality is that which is free.

00:15:30What is real? That which is free.

00:15:35So, as long as you are not liberated, are you real?

00:15:39And if you are not, do you exist? Because the unreal cannot exist.

00:15:43So, Vedanta says only on liberation do you come into existence.

00:15:49Before that, it is just a play of chemicals and processes.

00:15:54There is no you really.

00:15:57Because the highest respect is reserved for and accorded to the word I or you.

00:16:08That is the highest Vedantic truth, I.

00:16:11Atma itself means I.

00:16:14So, Vedanta says you do not deserve to use I if you are not liberated.

00:16:21Don't say me. You are not.

00:16:24You become qualified to say that you exist only when you are liberated of your prakritic bondages.

00:16:39Otherwise, you are just bragging.

00:16:42I am, I am doing that, I belong there, I am going to do that.

00:16:49I have such dreams, I have such relationships.

00:16:54Are you getting it?

00:17:00Please see from where Vedanta is coming. Vedanta springs from compassion towards mankind itself.

00:17:11And those who could see realized that all suffering, all our tears,

00:17:20it's a very human enterprise. Please understand.

00:17:24It's not just a philosophy for the sake of it.

00:17:31Something very important is at stake.

00:17:35Vedanta is not philosophy for the sake of philosophy.

00:17:39Vedanta is philosophy for the sake of mankind.

00:17:46Your liberation is the purpose of Vedanta.

00:17:53Not some abstract principle like discovery of truth.

00:18:01If you simply say philosophy, that simply means, you know, I like the truth, I want to venture into it, I love exploring the truth. That is philosophy.

00:18:10Vedanta is beyond that.

00:18:14The truth is unknowable.

00:18:15So, I am not going to get into something as abstract as that.

00:18:24I want to know how do I wipe off my tears. That's the purpose of Vedanta.

00:18:31And with that purpose begins a philosophical pursuit.

00:18:36So, there is philosophy, there is hardcore philosophy, there is top-notch philosophy.

00:18:42But that philosophy is not for its own sake.

00:18:46It's a beautiful thing. Please understand. There is a life lesson here.

00:18:54Something is being done just to help the other.

00:18:58The purpose is not to create the highest form of literature that mankind has known.

00:19:03No, that was not the purpose.

00:19:06But something extremely sublime and beautiful sprang from the kind-hearted approach to help the other.

00:19:16My purpose was to help you.

00:19:19And in the process of helping you, something extremely beautiful and precious just came up.

00:19:27I didn't intend to. It spontaneously came up.

00:19:31That's what the Upanishads are. That's what the entire Vedantic corpus is.

00:19:39It just came.

00:19:41The Rishis were not fond of proclaiming to the world that they are great authors or philosophers.

00:19:51So many times we do not even know where the particular verse is coming from.

00:19:57Even in Bhagavad Gita, we are told Ved Vyasa.

00:20:02Now Ved Vyasa appears more like a qualification, more like a title than the specific name of a particular person.

00:20:19Are you getting it?

00:20:26They were not interested in blowing their own trumpet.

00:20:30They wanted to help.

00:20:33The life lesson is, if you do things without the desire for yourself at the center,

00:20:42then what comes from that, what gets created by you is of an order that you could have never actively imagined.

00:21:00Are you getting it?

00:21:04So consider the situation.

00:21:05Consider the situation.

00:21:10There is the ego.

00:21:13For us, it does exist.

00:21:15So let's get rid of the theoretical framework in which the ego does not exist.

00:21:22The ego does exist.

00:21:24Where does it exist here?

00:21:27I am the ego.

00:21:29Let's begin from there because that's our experienced day-to-day reality.

00:21:33The ego does exist.

00:21:35The ego exists and for the ego is this perceived world.

00:21:41If I am there, then this world is there.

00:21:44There is no dissociation between the two.

00:21:47Have you ever lived for a second in a world-less space?

00:21:55Has that happened?

00:21:57You are there and the universe is not there.

00:22:00You and the world are necessary companions.

00:22:04True?

00:22:07And the ego is heavily dependent on the world, not only for its sustenance, but for its very identity.

00:22:18Nobody can answer the question, who are you, without picking up something from the world.

00:22:25Try that.

00:22:27Who are you?

00:22:28Answer this question without using anything from the world.

00:22:34Try.

00:22:35Can you?

00:22:39Can you?

00:22:45Try.

00:22:46And then think of the kind of helplessness it is.

00:22:53Who are you?

00:22:58Finished.

00:23:01Finished.

00:23:04Even if you say, I am, you still have used a language from the world.

00:23:12Though that's probably the maximum you can liberate yourself from the world,

00:23:19even while giving an answer.

00:23:22Somebody asks you, who are you?

00:23:23And you say, I am.

00:23:25That's the maximum extent of your liberation possible.

00:23:29But even that liberation is so conditional, so limited.

00:23:41So, that's the human condition.

00:23:46You live and you live dependently.

00:23:50And that which you are dependent on is a secular self-contained system of its own with no concern at all for your well-being.

00:24:05The cloud does not ask you before raining.

00:24:12Death does not ask you before striking.

00:24:20If you take in some toxin, it does not ask you before hurting you.

00:24:28You thought it was some good sweetmeat, went in and started doing all kinds of nasty things.

00:24:36It took your permission.

00:24:42So, I live dependent on you and you are extremely autonomous.

00:24:50You give two hoots to my desires and my concerns.

00:24:56Does it not happen?

00:25:00You go to a river and you put your toe in it.

00:25:10For your sake, does the water adjust the temperature?

00:25:16The temperature will remain what it is.

00:25:19If you like it good, otherwise…

00:25:25Is it not so?

00:25:35You are going to miss the flight. Does the earth start spinning slowly on its axis?

00:25:43Does it happen?

00:25:44And you are dependent on the little thing on your wrist.

00:25:53And the little thing on the wrist is not at all concerned about your flight.

00:25:59You are telling, can you please stop yourself for two minutes?

00:26:02Just two minutes.

00:26:05Two minutes is all you are missing your flight by.

00:26:10Such a little thing.

00:26:12And even that is autonomous. You cannot do anything.

00:26:17That's the human condition.

00:26:19You live in an extremely dependent way on the world and the world is independent of you.

00:26:34One-way traffic.

00:26:35One-way traffic.

00:26:39You are dependent on the world and the world is independent of you.

00:26:47You drop dead right now.

00:26:50Do the stars start wailing?

00:26:57It does not matter even to the rat or the crow.

00:27:03Or does it?

00:27:06You have just dropped dead and two lizards are mating right over your head.

00:27:11That's the worth of your life.

00:27:22Even as we are busy feeling great in this hall, enlightening ourselves.

00:27:29A few thousand people have already died in the last few minutes.

00:27:37They always do, sir.

00:27:39That's the natural rate of death.

00:27:43Nothing shocking about it.

00:27:47That's the way the universe is.

00:27:50At this moment there is some black hole consuming massive stars.

00:27:56Think what you call as universe.

00:28:00Entire universes are being finished this very second.

00:28:05Our universe is not the absolute universe.

00:28:08This that we look around we call as the universe.

00:28:11In that proportion, a black hole devours so many universes.

00:28:17And you are busy sitting, somebody is scratching his back.

00:28:21And in that interim, a black hole finished off some 200 suns.

00:28:27200 suns gone and what were you doing? Picking your nose.

00:28:35Or elbowing your neighbor.

00:28:38200 suns finished off without a trace.

00:28:42Not reduced to ashes, reduced to nothingness.

00:28:51The universe doesn't care or does it?

00:28:55Even as we are having this extremely sacred discussion here.

00:29:02People are busy killing each other.

00:29:07Think of the other side of the globe.

00:29:10Somebody is pestering somebody for a bribe.

00:29:14Here we are with the sacred Bhagavad Gita.

00:29:17This very moment so many things are happening.

00:29:21Some judge in some court has been bought off.

00:29:26He is delivering a totally unjust verdict.

00:29:33Is that not happening right now?

00:29:35That is happening.

00:29:37Even as we uttered these words, somebody has been shot.

00:29:47Somebody just succumbed to his chronic illness.

00:29:50Is that not happening?

00:29:52This moment somebody succumbed to his chronic illness somewhere in Argentina let's say.

00:29:56And we are talking of only the human species.

00:29:59If you include all species, we can't even imagine what all is going on.

00:30:12Even as we spoke, so many species went extinct forever.

00:30:17They will never come back.

00:30:22Somebody is snoring.

00:30:24Somebody is farting.

00:30:27Somebody is having sex this very moment.

00:30:29Think. Don't think.

00:30:30Don't think.

00:30:46Who are you? Nobody.

00:30:48With you, without you.

00:30:49With you, without you.

00:30:57The world gives two roots.

00:31:06This moment if your chair suddenly falls vacant,

00:31:11even the CCTV will not bother to note.

00:31:14You will have to zoom in and see where is the fellow under the chair or where.

00:31:25And we are so pathetically and pathologically dependent on the world.

00:31:37What kind of relationship is this?

00:31:40This is what deeply hurt the sages.

00:31:45They said this relationship is not acceptable.

00:31:48You do not care for me whereas I have to live and die by you.

00:31:53This won't do.

00:31:55This won't do.

00:32:01It's like one-sided unrequited love.

00:32:03Unrequited love.

00:32:08Even for my very breath, I am dependent on you.

00:32:17And you don't even notice even if I am gone forever.

00:32:24Is that not so?

00:32:29Now there are two ways to approach this situation.

00:32:31One way is, it is not as if nobody cares for me.

00:32:36I have two and a half people in my life who do care for me.

00:32:39They care for you because you have written a will for them.

00:32:47A lot of their comforts and security and emotional needs depend on you or physical needs depend on you.

00:32:56Therefore, they care for you.

00:32:58They care for you only in this moment.

00:33:02Ten years hence, their needs will no more be dependent on you.

00:33:07Then even they will not care for you.

00:33:09So one way is to say that it is not as if I am absolutely inconsequential.

00:33:16I do matter.

00:33:18You see, if I am gone, 40 people will come to the ceremony.

00:33:28Those 40 are coming only because you know what?

00:33:32You also know that if the conditions change, none of those 40 will turn up.

00:33:38There is something about the conditions that is making those 40 turn up.

00:33:45So one way is the way of self-delusion.

00:33:50The other way is the way of self-liberation.

00:33:53In self-delusion, you remain dependent and want to justify your dependence.

00:34:04You want to beautify your dependence.

00:34:09You say, no, this is not dependence, this is love.

00:34:17I am not a prisoner.

00:34:18I am not a prisoner.

00:34:21I have agreed and am cooperating to be in this great mansion that you call as the prison.

00:34:28It is not a prison, it is a mansion and I am here by my own will.

00:34:35I am not held captive here.

00:34:37I am just cooperating.

00:34:40I am just fulfilling my due responsibilities.

00:34:44One way is this.

00:34:46Then you can say, you know, I am not in bondage at all.

00:34:50So why do I need liberation?

00:34:52This is not the way of the sage.

00:34:56The Rishi, by his very definition, is the biggest rebel possible.

00:35:05Rishi is rebellion.

00:35:06Think of that long flowing white beard as his flag.

00:35:24He carries that everywhere he goes.

00:35:32That is the mark of the rebels.

00:35:36I am not saying everybody who has a beard is a rebel.

00:35:38Please.

00:35:40Are you getting it?

00:35:41The fellow says, irrespective of how I carve out my relationships with this thing,

00:35:50I will remain a slave, a serf, a vassal.

00:35:58Maybe I will have some autonomy.

00:36:01But that will be a conferred autonomy, not an earned autonomy.

00:36:06Not an autonomous autonomy.

00:36:08It will be a dependent, contingent autonomy.

00:36:13Somebody, like you know, you have vassals.

00:36:15Vassals, you understand?

00:36:16So there is a king and then there is some kind of a feudal lord.

00:36:21And the king says, fine, you can control that particular area.

00:36:2440 villages will be under your command.

00:36:30So that fellow says, right, I am the lord of those 40 villages.

00:36:33But you are not the absolute lord of those 40 villages.

00:36:35The king is over you.

00:36:40Like you had kingdoms in India, even in the British era.

00:36:44Were they really sovereign?

00:36:47The fellow used to call himself the king of such and such state.

00:36:51But he was not really the king.

00:36:55The kingship was a dependent one.

00:37:00The sage is not happy with all that.

00:37:04Not at all satisfied.

00:37:09The sage says, I need to have a relationship in which if you cannot depend on me, then I too will not depend on you.

00:37:19I cannot change your rules, obviously.

00:37:21This freedom from dependence, this freedom from total helplessness is liberation.

00:37:38Liberation for the ego.

00:37:40Because I am the ego.

00:37:42And I kept remaining dependent.

00:37:48I do not want to remain dependent.

00:37:52I go into myself and ask, why do I remain dependent?

00:37:57The answer is because you want something from there.

00:38:01Why do I want something from there?

00:38:03The answer is because I think I lack in that thing.

00:38:06Why do you think you lack in that thing?

00:38:09No answer, but it just feels that way.

00:38:12Can we explore that?

00:38:14Can we really verify whether you really lack in something?

00:38:17Yes, seems like a good idea.

00:38:19How do we do that?

00:38:22Can we see where the feeling comes from?

00:38:24Nice.

00:38:25What do we call this process as?

00:38:27The answer is self-observation.

00:38:31Since the bondage stems from me, therefore, I have to go into myself to find the root of the bondage and uproot it.

00:38:51Otherwise, it is very indignified.

00:38:53Do you see the indignity?

00:38:55Think of being in relationship with someone.

00:38:57And you do not matter at all to that person.

00:39:03Whereas, for money, you depend on that person.

00:39:07For food, you depend on that person.

00:39:09For identity, you depend on that person.

00:39:11For house, you depend on that person.

00:39:13For clothes, you depend on that person.

00:39:15For emotional support, you depend on that person.

00:39:18For physical support, you depend on that person.

00:39:21You would enjoy this condition?

00:39:23Would you?

00:39:25That's the condition of mankind by birth.

00:39:31That's how we are condemned to be born extremely vulnerable and totally dependent.

00:39:45And in this dependency is indignity.

00:39:50Therefore, Vedanta is a rebellion to reclaim dignity.

00:39:58Give it back to me.

00:39:59What?

00:40:00My dignity.

00:40:04Now, it will probably be easier to understand why Shri Krishna speaks this way.

00:40:14Those who think of the Atma to be the slayer and he who takes it to be the slain,

00:40:26neither of these knows.

00:40:29It does not slay nor is it slain.

00:40:37It is an instruction into the very nature of the pure self.

00:40:45Rising, falling, change of forms, arrival, departure, all these belong to the field of Prakriti.

00:40:58Stay away.

00:40:59All that is happening there.

00:41:01All that is not happening here.

00:41:03All that is happening.

00:41:05All that must not happen to you.

00:41:09All that is happening.

00:41:12Parth, it is not necessarily happening to you.

00:41:19To whom is it happening?

00:41:20It is happening to the perceiver.

00:41:22I am not the perceiver.

00:41:24Who is the perceiver?

00:41:25The eyes are the perceiver.

00:41:26The body is the perceiver.

00:41:28To some extent, even the mind, body, mind, intellect and memory are the perceivers.

00:41:35And yet, I can stand apart from all these.

00:41:43So, all this is happening.

00:41:44Is that happening?

00:41:45Yes, it is happening.

00:41:46All happening is to someone.

00:41:48To whom is the happening?

00:41:49To the eyes, the happening is there.

00:41:52To the skin, the happening is there.

00:41:53To the memory, the happening is there.

00:41:57Freedom lies in being able to see the other eye and call your normal eye as the other one.

00:42:09The ego is there and things are happening to the ego.

00:42:16Obviously, the ego is experiencing pain.

00:42:19Is the pain there?

00:42:21Yes, the pain is there.

00:42:22To the?

00:42:23Not to me.

00:42:24There are two eyes now.

00:42:26There are two eyes.

00:42:29It is very strange.

00:42:32In non-duality, there are two eyes.

00:42:39And in duality, there is only one eye.

00:42:44In duality, there is only one eye called the ego.

00:42:50Does the ego experience anything called the other eye, the true self?

00:42:55No.

00:42:56So, in duality, there is only one eye called the ego.

00:43:00In non-duality, the other one just opens up.

00:43:07And this other one becomes the first one, the real one.

00:43:15Let us simply say the only one.

00:43:17Because the only one, therefore, non-duality.

00:43:21Only one, why?

00:43:22Because that's who I am.

00:43:26That's who I am.

00:43:27Then what is that one that is experiencing the pain?

00:43:31That is a product of the body.

00:43:33That is not who I am.

00:43:34Therefore, non-duality.

00:43:38Then when there is a single eye, why do you call that duality?

00:43:41Because there are two for that single eye.

00:43:43Me and the world.

00:43:47Therefore, it is dualistic.

00:43:49In that single eye framework, there is the eye called the ego and there is the world.

00:43:56So, there are two.

00:43:57Hence, it is dualistic.

00:44:00But when there are those two eyes, then what is real?

00:44:05Only the eye.

00:44:07The other two are playing with each other.

00:44:10The world and the ego, they are playing with each other.

00:44:12And both of them just play things to each other.

00:44:17Let them do whatever they want to do.

00:44:23Minus is contained only in the pure self.

00:44:29Therefore, non-duality.

00:44:36Why is Krishna telling Arjun that the pure self can neither be killed nor does it kill?

00:44:44Those who think of killing with respect to the pure self are deluded.

00:44:50Why is he saying all this?

00:44:53So that the fear that the highest lies in the body itself can be removed.

00:45:07Please consider Arjun's situation.

00:45:12He is supposed to fight and fighting would involve killing the body.

00:45:17Arjun is taking this killing as so important, so significant that he is trembling from this perceived significance.

00:45:29When something absolutely significant is happening to you, don't you tremble?

00:45:36That significance could be good, bad, desirable, undesirable, whatever.

00:45:40But if something totally significant is happening, absolutely, something of the highest significance is happening.

00:45:46Have you seen your condition?

00:45:50You tremble.

00:45:54You feel small because something so big is happening and in front of that bigness you are little.

00:46:03Shri Krishna is trying to tell Arjun that the reality is anyway very distinct from this drama that is being played out here.

00:46:15Why are you attaching so much significance to it?

00:46:23You will shoot, they will fire, all that is okay.

00:46:27None of that has any bearing on reality.

00:46:32Somebody will get killed, somebody will kill.

00:46:36None of that has any bearing on the reality.

00:46:39Hence, he is saying Atma can neither be killed nor does it kill.

00:46:43Which means that all this killing that will happen here has nothing to do with the absolute truth.

00:46:49Hence, you need not give an absolute weightage to these happenings.

00:46:54It is because you are giving an absolute importance to this happening that you are nervous and trembling.

00:47:11Do you understand?

00:47:13There is a lot of psychology here.

00:47:18You think this is very important. No, it is not.

00:47:21The thing of real importance is something else.

00:47:27So, how should we conduct ourselves here then?

00:47:30If the real thing is there, how should we conduct ourselves here?

00:47:34The answer is wonderful.

00:47:35The answer is you should conduct yourselves here in a way that helps you and others realize that this is not the real thing.

00:47:44Because the real thing is there.

00:47:46But you suffer because you think that the real thing is there.

00:47:53What should be then the purpose of all your actions here?

00:47:57To help yourself and the others see that this is not real.

00:48:01And if there is somebody who is hell-bent on proving, establishing that this is the absolute, this, the dualistic drama is the absolute thing,

00:48:22then dharma requires that such a person be stopped in his tracks.

00:48:28What is the purpose of life?

00:48:29To help yourself and the others see that all this is not absolute.

00:48:36Which means you need not have greed and lust and avarice and temptation.

00:48:43Because if all this is not very real, what are you drooling for?

00:48:49Do you get this?

00:48:50Therefore, Arjuna, this war needs to be fought because that fellow on the other side,

00:48:55if he becomes the king, he will establish to the entire country that all this is so significant

00:49:05that you can resort to all kinds of dubious means just to gain a piece of land.

00:49:13Duryodhana's ascension to the throne would establish to the entire population

00:49:22that the throne and the land and the power and the pelf are so valuable, so absolutely valuable

00:49:31that anything can be done for their sake.

00:49:36And if that is established, that would mean sorrow for the entire nation.

00:49:40Because what is sorrow?

00:49:42Considering prakriti as real is sorrow.

00:49:46And that is what Duryodhana is out to establish to the entire land.

00:49:52That prakriti is real. Prakriti is so real that I can kill my own brothers for it through conspiracy.

00:50:04Therefore, fight.

00:50:07Fight. If you are killed, that is okay.

00:50:11Who says you are alive anyway?

00:50:13If they are killed, that too is okay.

00:50:16The real thing is somewhere else.

00:50:19Arjuna will be very justified in asking if the real thing is somewhere else.

00:50:22Why do we fight at all?

00:50:24Let me just go and sleep somewhere.

00:50:26Anyway, the absolute lies neither in fighting nor in sleeping.

00:50:30So let me simply go and sleep somewhere.

00:50:33Yes, you can do that.

00:50:35But that would mean that sorrow would continue.

00:50:38Sorrow would continue.

00:50:42And the purpose of the sage as we have repeatedly seen today is the elimination of sorrow.

00:50:48Duryodhana on the throne would mean sorrow to the kingdom.

00:50:54Fight not for the throne, Parth. Fight for dharma.

00:51:01The throne is incidental.

00:51:02You can have the throne and then relinquish it if you want to.

00:51:15Verse 19 is to take the seriousness away from Arjuna's shivering.

00:51:22Arjuna is so damn serious about what is going on.

00:51:25After all, the society is absolute.

00:51:28After all, the blood relations are absolute.

00:51:30How do I shoot at my own kith and kin?

00:51:38And that very respectable and affectionate Pitamah.

00:51:45Because those things are absolute.

00:51:48That's what the family and the society teach us.

00:51:51This is the highest. Absolute means beyond comparison.

00:51:55Unconditionally highest. That's what you call it.

00:52:01So that's what the society has told us that these things are the highest.

00:52:04The memories, the attachments, the sanskars.

00:52:11That's what being touted as the highest.

00:52:15And Arjuna therefore is very serious.

00:52:18Am I being told to violate the highest?

00:52:21Will I kill my own brothers?

00:52:23Krishna is taking the seriousness out of Arjuna's condition and Arjuna's arguments.

00:52:34What lies at the core of Arjuna's arguments.

00:52:39All this is very important.

00:52:43Krishna is saying the important one is there.

00:52:46This is just drama.

00:52:49Do you understand how it's operating?

00:52:53The important one is there. This is drama.

00:52:55Now tell me what are you shaking and shivering for?

00:53:03Then Arjuna should say, if this is just drama then let me run away.

00:53:07Because it's very much possible that in drama a particular character just runs away.

00:53:13And then Krishna would say, if you run away, then this would be a very melancholy drama.

00:53:20Then this would be a drama full of lot of suffering.

00:53:25Therefore, fight. Knowing fully well that this is a drama, fight.

00:53:42The same flow continues in the next two verses.

00:53:50The real is never born nor does it die.

00:53:56It is not that, you could read it as, it is not that which you think of or assume.

00:54:06Not having been, it again comes to being.

00:54:10It is unborn, eternal, changeless, ever itself.

00:54:15The body might be killed, that has no impact on the truth.

00:54:32He who knows the self, the truth to be indestructible, changeless, birthless, immutable.

00:54:40How is he, Arjuna, to kill someone or cause a killing?

00:54:52Because the word killing can apply only to something that is alive.

00:54:58The alive one is there. All this is just drama.

00:55:05So there is no killing happening here.

00:55:10It is almost like a Ramlila Manch.

00:55:14Lots of bodies will fall but nobody will get killed.

00:55:21Arjuna, play your part.

00:55:25No killing can happen.

00:55:28For something to be killed, it should first of all have ever been alive.

00:55:33Now life is possible only to that.

00:55:36And if someone is so liberated as to have become that,

00:55:43then he is anyway liberated of the body.

00:55:48So even if you kill his body, he is not killed.

00:55:53Those who are not liberated, they are anyway not alive.

00:55:57Please understand the argument.

00:55:59Those who are not liberated, they are anyway not alive.

00:56:02They are a moving bunch of processes and chemicals like a machine.

00:56:08So the word killing does not apply to them.

00:56:13I have been sipping tea. Have I killed it?

00:56:21You take a big lump of salt and you bludgeon it with a hammer. Have you killed it?

00:56:31Why not? It is reduced to particles now.

00:56:36Have you killed it?

00:56:38Killing does not apply to those with chemical consciousness.

00:56:43So they cannot be killed.

00:56:45And if someone who is not chemical anymore, who is liberated now,

00:56:49then that fellow anyway does not identify with the body.

00:56:53Even if the body falls, he is not killed.

00:56:56So either way killing cannot happen.

00:56:59So what are you then so shaky and nervous for?

00:57:06Just deliver your dialogues, perform your role and get out.

00:57:16Get out as soon as possible. That's what we are all here for.

00:57:20No?

00:57:24Do you understand his argument, Krishna's argument? It's a beautiful argument.

00:57:32Anything that is happening in the field of Prakriti is unreal.

00:57:36Correct? Unreal.

00:57:39But to the ego it is very very real.

00:57:43So you must realize first of all that anything that you do in the field of Prakriti

00:57:48has no absolute significance at all.

00:57:52The entire world may disappear tomorrow.

00:57:58It makes no difference to the Atma Jnani.

00:58:07Some big rock comes and strikes the earth.

00:58:15The entire planet is gone.

00:58:21Makes no difference to the self knower.

00:58:26It's very strange.

00:58:28This one appears like a heartless person.

00:58:31No, he is extremely compassionate.

00:58:33But the thing is it does not matter to him.

00:58:37Because he knows all this is just entire universes keep rising and falling.

00:58:42How does it matter?

00:58:45The entire play of Prakriti is just to me.

00:58:50If I say, oh it's an eternal and vast infinite universe.

00:58:56All that is just my saying.

00:58:58Otherwise it is just my field of perception.

00:59:01My field of perception.

00:59:03Only as big as I am.

00:59:05There is no point calling it the colossal infinite universe.

00:59:09Infinite universe.

00:59:11It does not matter to the liberated one.

00:59:16Are you kidding?

00:59:18But the liberated one also knows that once he was not liberated.

00:59:24He also knows that all those who are not liberated today have the potential to move to his own place.

00:59:34Therefore, knowing fully well that the drama does not matter, he still participates in it.

00:59:40He participates in it in a way that pulls people out of the drama.

00:59:48And that's how Shri Krishna is asking Arjun to fight the war.

00:59:53Yes, it is a drama Arjun.

00:59:55First of all you understand that.

00:59:57Secondly, don't allow those forces to win who will continue this drama of sorrow.

01:00:05Because the liberated one, he does not feel any sorrow.

01:00:10Those who are in the drama, they are feeling all the sorrow.

01:00:14Therefore, the drama must be conducted very meticulously.

01:00:20You cannot just dismiss the world and say, oh all this is maya.

01:00:24You might be liberated or relatively liberated, so you are saying all this is maya.

01:00:28But think of the one who is caught in maya.

01:00:29The one who is caught in maya, he is the experiencer of sorrow.

01:00:36And the entire Vedantic stream begins as a rebellion against sorrow.

01:00:44Therefore, you cannot say, oh even sorrow is unreal.

01:00:47No, no, no, sorry. That argument will not be bought.

01:00:52Sorrow is unreal to the one who is free of sorrow.

01:00:55The one who is experiencing sorrow, he has to be helped.

01:01:00That is at the core of all that Shri Krishna preaches to Arjun.

01:01:06Two grown-ups are rehearsing a particular scene in a play in front of a kid.

01:01:14And that particular scene involves aggressive, violent exchange of abuses and also blows, physical blows.

01:01:30They are rehearsing, let's say, at some time in the night and the kid is still awake and the kid is watching them.

01:01:35And the kid is watching them and these two are rehearsing.

01:01:38And to the kid the drama is real.

01:01:41And the kid gets terrified.

01:01:44The kid gets terrified.

01:01:46So, what will the grown-ups do?

01:01:48They will say, right, let's rehearse some other scene right now.

01:01:53Some other more amicable, more pleasant scene, more agreeable scene.

01:01:59And so they switch the scene.

01:02:01Now in this scene that is being watched by the kid, these two grown-ups are hugging each other and exchanging pleasantries instead of blows.

01:02:13Talking nice things and saying, yes, would you want to have some tea?

01:02:19Was it not a drama then?

01:02:22Is it not a drama now?

01:02:25But the drama has to be conducted very meticulously keeping in mind the interests of the kid.

01:02:32It is still a drama.

01:02:36It was even then a drama.

01:02:38Not that the drama is being taken as real.

01:02:41Krishna is not telling Arjuna, take the drama as real.

01:02:46He is not saying, oh the war is extremely important.

01:02:51No, he is not saying the war is extremely important.

01:02:54Look at the genius of Shri Krishna.

01:02:56He is saying the war is not at all important.

01:02:59Now fight.

01:03:02This is so different from motivation.

01:03:05In motivation we tell someone, this is more important than your life.

01:03:10Plunge into it, give everything to it, die for it because it is so very important.

01:03:16On the contrary, Shri Krishna is saying, Arjuna fight the war because it is not important.

01:03:21Know that it is not important at all.

01:03:25And then fight as if your life depends on it.

01:03:29Know that this is just a drama.

01:03:31This is just a drama.

01:03:33The real thing is Atma.

01:03:38The bodies will fall, Atma remains untouched.

01:03:44Know that this is a drama and then perform your role to perfection.

01:03:50Why should I perform my role to perfection?

01:03:57The answer is compassion.

01:03:59For the sake of the little kid who still does not know that this is a drama.

01:04:04For the kid the drama is real.

01:04:11So what is the aim of the drama?

01:04:13To bring the kid to a point where he starts seeing that all this is a drama.

01:04:18That is exactly the role even Shri Krishna is playing in the drama.

01:04:22He is trying to bring kid Arjuna to a point where Arjuna sees that all this is a drama, yet it has to be played.

Category

Transcript

Recommended